Electric Blue Ram Breeding Advice

I just added one of my bonded pair of EBR that had fry in their tank to my new discus tank with 3 other pairs of rams ..A sort of community ram tank ?
At this point I almost see no difference in the color variation and parenting skills .
I would say I have more success with GBR but I have had them longer and have always had more of them ?
When you proportion things out they seem pretty even ..I have a couple blacks even raising fry ?

 

I just added one of my bonded pair of EBR that had fry in their tank to my new discus tank with 3 other pairs of rams ..A sort of community ram tank ?
At this point I almost see no difference in the color variation and parenting skills .
I would say I have more success with GBR but I have had them longer and have always had more of them ?
When you proportion things out they seem pretty even ..I have a couple blacks even raising fry ?

I probably just have to give them a few more goes to get it right then.. I think its defo something to do with the numbers, even the GBR seem to be worse at parenting with smaller spawns.. the bigger the spawn from what I've seen the more likely they are to not eat them. I don't think I've gotten the water right though with the blues.. lots of white eggs not getting fertilized in the individual tanks.. but weird that in the communal high TDS they are fertilized. I think I might put a couple of my EBR breeder tanks that aren't spawning on my tap and see where it goes.
Wow you got Discus though, Brianna (my daughter) and I often drool over the discus at the stores, maybe one day.. just need to stop these mollies from pumping out babies. I should have never told mum to get them because they ended up in my tank and here I am getting over run with them and the babies too fast for any of the big fish to get! lol Much rather have discus haha!

 

There is another load of wrigglers in one of the other communal tanks (GBR again) so I don't think its a coincidence that the TDS of 246 range is good for them for breeding. One other thing I have noticed (which drives me nuts but I have to resist cleaning) is that the dirtier the tank floor is, the more likely there are to be spawns that make it to free swimming.
.

I have tanks that 'look' dirty with what I assume are diatoms on the bottom[brown] and it never seems to phase pairs or grow outs .
Since I haven't painted any of my tanks I sometimes think the fish are more comfortable before I clean the bottom ?
I have pairs in their own tanks ,so no real distractions that will lay whole batches of white eggs when my TDS is only 150 and others that have no issue with higher TDS .
I honestly think it is the fish in many cases not the water .I will note white eggs and 150TDS and rectify the tank and the next set are white also..I think this happens when one of the pair is not at peak condition and if not paired might just be on break ?
I know the male GBR [ from 2017] I just added to the discus tank just found new interest in his girl and is chasing everyone today !
Sometimes just moving fish to new tank changes them [for good or bad ?] .
I ended up with discus because of too much store credit and bad influences on this site !

Yea I am blaming the rams and others on this very forum for the discus and sticking to it !

 

I probably just have to give them a few more goes to get it right then.. I think its defo something to do with the numbers, even the GBR seem to be worse at parenting with smaller spawns.. the bigger the spawn from what I've seen the more likely they are to not eat them. I don't think I've gotten the water right though with the blues.. lots of white eggs not getting fertilized in the individual tanks.. but weird that in the communal high TDS they are fertilized. I think I might put a couple of my EBR breeder tanks that aren't spawning on my tap and see where it goes.
Wow you got Discus though, Brianna (my daughter) and I often drool over the discus at the stores, maybe one day.. just need to stop these mollies from pumping out babies. I should have never told mum to get them because they ended up in my tank and here I am getting over run with them and the babies too fast for any of the big fish to get! lol Much rather have discus haha!

I was wondering that re spawn size. When the small surviving spawn of +-15 on day 6 from my black pair dispersed, eating and swimming well, come evening time (using natural light only on my breeder tank) when it was time to collect them up - and there not being a defined group - the female just gargled them too long as she went back and forth trying to find one, eventually swallowing them.
This morning there were only 6 left and I took them out, especially given the female looks ready to lay again.
Still quite impressed they made it to day 6 on their first attempt (minus the initial eggs that were laid when I got them into the tank, subsequently eaten). I wonder how much of it is down to the light, and how much is down to the fact that this pair has had minimal handling and moving around in their lifetime? Most say that shouldn't affect them, but they have just been a solid, chilled pair from day 1.

Interesting again re TDS and spawning as coralbandit says. I also would love to have a crack at Discus oneday, but need adequate space, time and money, etc. For now rams keep me occupied and amused!
Speaking of TDS, I remember reading on Marco's thread on another forum that in some native water places for rams, TDS can be as low as 30! His point was their water should be as clean as discus and I think its not emphasised (quite) as much because rams are simply smaller, cheaper and easier fish to replace if they die?

I'll probably start a thread of my own at some point to stop hijacking yours and others!

 

I was wondering that re spawn size. When the small surviving spawn of +-15 on day 6 from my black pair dispersed, eating and swimming well, come evening time (using natural light only on my breeder tank) when it was time to collect them up - and there not being a defined group - the female just gargled them too long as she went back and forth trying to find one, eventually swallowing them.
This morning there were only 6 left and I took them out, especially given the female looks ready to lay again.
Still quite impressed they made it to day 6 on their first attempt (minus the initial eggs that were laid when I got them into the tank, subsequently eaten). I wonder how much of it is down to the light, and how much is down to the fact that this pair has had minimal handling and moving around in their lifetime? Most say that shouldn't affect them, but they have just been a solid, chilled pair from day 1.

Interesting again re TDS and spawning as coralbandit says. I also would love to have a crack at Discus oneday, but need adequate space, time and money, etc. For now rams keep me occupied and amused!
Speaking of TDS, I remember reading on Marco's thread on another forum that in some native water places for rams, TDS can be as low as 30! His point was their water should be as clean as discus and I think its not emphasised (quite) as much because rams are simply smaller, cheaper and easier fish to replace if they die?

I'll probably start a thread of my own at some point to stop hijacking yours and others!

This is the thing with Rams I think, they are truly addictive.. I think partly its their absolute beauty (cue Discus on that as well) and partly its the sheer challenge when you hear they are so difficult!

This evening so far my community tank is keeping their fry segregated.. I added a couple of plants to the middle group, to create a barrier, since they were getting battered from both sides and it didnt seem fair.. the fry though are doing great, swapping from one parent to the next without harm.. as anticipated though the middle bunch have lost some of theirs to those either side.. I can tell the difference as those are a day older and swimming better than the other two lots.. I REALLY want to clean their tank though.. its driving me insane.. I think I must be a bit OCD haha

p.s no worries on adding to the thread, its nice to have others experiences on there.

 

This is the thing with Rams I think, they are truly addictive.. I think partly its their absolute beauty (cue Discus on that as well) and partly its the sheer challenge when you hear they are so difficult!

This evening so far my community tank is keeping their fry segregated.. I added a couple of plants to the middle group, to create a barrier, since they were getting battered from both sides and it didnt seem fair.. the fry though are doing great, swapping from one parent to the next without harm.. as anticipated though the middle bunch have lost some of theirs to those either side.. I can tell the difference as those are a day older and swimming better than the other two lots.. I REALLY want to clean their tank though.. its driving me insane.. I think I must be a bit OCD haha

p.s no worries on adding to the thread, its nice to have others experiences on there.

Yup, I last kept rams nearly 20 years ago when last in the hobby and when it was only GBR available (if I remember right) as opposed to all the other colour variations. While I enjoyed them in general, I wonder why I dig them so much more now? I had greater interest in other fish back then, mostly loaches. Maybe that's just the way it goes!

Glad your fry are doing ok in their extended family - plants sound like a good idea as barriers. I guess the concern will be when the females are ready to lay again - maybe some of the fry will get absorbed into the other group, etc? Fun experiment to watch I'm sure.
Know the feeling of wanting to clean! I left the glass alone for the most part and just vacuumed a bit day to day. I run a small internal filter filled with mostly Matrix, and Macgyvered with filter floss zip-tied around the bottom intake. I clamp a small piece of the same foam into the filter's surface exit with a little plastic peg as even on the lowest flow setting its a bit too much for fry. Also run a small foam filter on the opposite corner for fry grazing and added aeration purposes. Will not be entering any aquascape competitions at this time.

 

My communal GBR is doing well today so pleased with that, also found another 2 pairs of 3 that have fry in another tank! At this point I think I am wasting effort with the RO as non RO tanks are doing just fine! So today am doing water changes in all the breeding tanks with just tap water and will see what happens!

On a down note, one of my EBR males (a really nice one) is sick, some intestinal thing - I'm pretty sure its down to overfeeding - I think my next thing is to sort out what they are being fed and try and find a better quality food for them. Not sure if this one will pull through as I've never seen one yet recover from this kind of thing.

 

My communal GBR is doing well today so pleased with that, also found another 2 pairs of 3 that have fry in another tank! At this point I think I am wasting effort with the RO as non RO tanks are doing just fine! So today am doing water changes in all the breeding tanks with just tap water and will see what happens!

On a down note, one of my EBR males (a really nice one) is sick, some intestinal thing - I'm pretty sure its down to overfeeding - I think my next thing is to sort out what they are being fed and try and find a better quality food for them. Not sure if this one will pull through as I've never seen one yet recover from this kind of thing.

Do you feed boiled & shelled peas or cucumber? I do quite often to help their digestion - at least 3x per week in the mornings. Staple diet is Tetra Pro Colour flake; HikarI Vibrabites (although some don't enjoy it much and battle to eat if they're small); some local brand pellet and then the usual frozen foods. Used to do Tubiflex worms occasionally but read they are bad news so no more. I also add microworms or Ocean Nurtrition BBS to my breeding tank now and then to alert the pair of suitable food for fry.

 

Do you feed boiled & shelled peas or cucumber? I do quite often to help their digestion - at least 3x per week in the mornings. Staple diet is Tetra Pro Colour flake; HikarI Vibrabites (although some don't enjoy it much and battle to eat if they're small); some local brand pellet and then the usual frozen foods. Used to do Tubiflex worms occasionally but read they are bad news so no more. I also add microworms or Ocean Nurtrition BBS to my breeding tank now and then to alert the pair of suitable food for fry.

no I haven't fed peas but I did try cucumber and they left it. I've been feeding Baby Brine Shrimp and Bug Bites, but I'm going to be purchasing the same stuff that Marco does for his rams as I can get it sent from that company to the UK. Its quite expensive but the growth rates he gets on his rams is superb so am going to follow that plan. The nearest fish shop that does any specialist food locally is 30 miles away, which for us, in the UK would be considered quite a trek! (Small potatoes for you guys I'm sure )
I think the one thing I need to get really good at now, is the feeding!

So, I ended my 3 pair experiment tonight by removing the remaining fry. I do have plenty of fry so had accepted a few losses, but the parents were getting nasty with each other. I also removed 2 other sets of fry in another GBR communal tank and moved another who had laid their eggs on top of a car ornament, into their own tank.

I also witnessed something really weird with an EBR pair (well not so much of a pair apparently) The male had previously been with another female and beat up on her pretty bad, so I removed her and put another feisty female in who I thought had a better chance of an even pairing. Well, today she spawned and instead of the male coming in and doing his bit, he was diving in and trying to eat or maybe steal the eggs. She went for him bad and saw him off several times before rapidly eating the eggs she had laid.

I removed the male as that is not the sort of behaviour I want to breed and found a smaller less dominant male.. immediately the female went to pecking the ground and showing spawning flirting behaviour. I have no idea why the first male behaved like that.. whether because it was a different female he thought her laying on his patch was a threat.. but it was really bizarre.

 

I had 8 pairs going one season in my dorm style 40 g tank aka ram ranch !

All is well with the pairs as long as eggs are removed every time .
They breed and kept pretty much to them selves ..Almost perfect amount of aggression and defense just for territory without injury ..
Leave eggs for a day or miss them and all chaos breaks loose .
Also if a mate was lost in that setting no other was accepted and the loner was not long for the group ..
Kind of thinking/hoping I will be able to steal eggs from each of the 4 pairs I have in the discus tank..

 

no I haven't fed peas but I did try cucumber and they left it. I've been feeding Baby Brine Shrimp and Bug Bites, but I'm going to be purchasing the same stuff that Marco does for his rams as I can get it sent from that company to the UK. Its quite expensive but the growth rates he gets on his rams is superb so am going to follow that plan. The nearest fish shop that does any specialist food locally is 30 miles away, which for us, in the UK would be considered quite a trek! (Small potatoes for you guys I'm sure )
I think the one thing I need to get really good at now, is the feeding!

Mine learned to eat cucumber with some help from algae eaters picking at it. Needs to be cross sliced so they can nibble off pieces but it can take some time for them to get into. Peas are easier to do and they seem to enjoy them as well.

What food does he use if I may ask? I could probably find some in Cape Town although I can't find Bug Bites here unfortunately. That said, the rams I got from him are growing fast - the males are close to 2 inches at 5.5 months old.
And yeah 30 miles is a bit of a drive I guess - I'm lucky in that every LFS I go to is within a radius of about half that distance. Does mean I find my way there too often though haha.

 

Mine learned to eat cucumber with some help from algae eaters picking at it. Needs to be cross sliced so they can nibble off pieces but it can take some time for them to get into. Peas are easier to do and they seem to enjoy them as well.

What food does he use if I may ask? I could probably find some in Cape Town although I can't find Bug Bites here unfortunately. That said, the rams I got from him are growing fast - the males are close to 2 inches at 5.5 months old.
And yeah 30 miles is a bit of a drive I guess - I'm lucky in that every LFS I go to is within a radius of about half that distance. Does mean I find my way there too often though haha.

Hi

He buys from https://www.aquakultur-genzel.de

he feeds
Blackfood Fine (sparingly 2 x weekly)
Sealife Proactif 1 - from when they can eat
Sealife Proactive 2 with added Beta Glucane, Spirulina and Astaxanthin - daily staple from day 30
Artemia Supersoft - daily staple from day 30
Artificial Plancton - twice weekly sparingly with the blackfood fine.

Shipping isn't cheap and I am going to follow what he does because I think I have got everything else working ok, apart from the feeding/growth.. they are way too small for too long.

I had 8 pairs going one season in my dorm style 40 g tank aka ram ranch !

All is well with the pairs as long as eggs are removed every time .
They breed and kept pretty much to them selves ..Almost perfect amount of aggression and defense just for territory without injury ..
Leave eggs for a day or miss them and all chaos breaks loose .
Also if a mate was lost in that setting no other was accepted and the loner was not long for the group ..
Kind of thinking/hoping I will be able to steal eggs from each of the 4 pairs I have in the discus tank..

I think I will be taking mine from wrigglers.(since they are all laying on the floor and I can't get them). honestly I could probably do all my GBR in communal like this - like you said so long as you take the eggs/fry. I was interested to see how it would work with all of them having fry at the same time.. but they are so protective over their babies.. I reckon they lost half of their free swimming fry in one day due to plowing through them in aggression.

 

Hi

He buys from https://www.aquakultur-genzel.de

he feeds
Blackfood Fine (sparingly 2 x weekly)
Sealife Proactif 1 - from when they can eat
Sealife Proactive 2 with added Beta Glucane, Spirulina and Astaxanthin - daily staple from day 30
Artemia Supersoft - daily staple from day 30
Artificial Plancton - twice weekly sparingly with the blackfood fine.

Shipping isn't cheap and I am going to follow what he does because I think I have got everything else working ok, apart from the feeding/growth.. they are way too small for too long.

Thanks - interesting list. Assumed it was an SA company but I see they are based in Germany. For a proper breeding operation I suppose worth doing- at least you are not too far in the UK.
Will maybe give it all a go at some point.

 

Thanks - interesting list. Assumed it was an SA company but I see they are based in Germany. For a proper breeding operation I suppose worth doing- at least you are not too far in the UK.
Will maybe give it all a go at some point.

Marco seems really helpful, maybe he'd let you piggyback one of his orders.

So, I have a Male ram who following breeding with a dominant female, must have smashed into the side of the tank, since one morning I came down and he was bent, he can't use his pelvic fins or one of his pectoral fins.. I QT him for a while in case he was sick, but nothing developed and he's eating every day. I have now put him back in a communal tank with a load of other fish.. he seems happy and whenever there is food he is in there getting his share. I have the space, I am going to let him live there, unless he starts to look distressed at all, sometimes I do wonder if I am being cruel though.

 

So, I have a Male ram who following breeding with a dominant female, must have smashed into the side of the tank, since one morning I came down and he was bent, he can't use his pelvic fins or one of his pectoral fins.. I QT him for a while in case he was sick, but nothing developed and he's eating every day. I have now put him back in a communal tank with a load of other fish.. he seems happy and whenever there is food he is in there getting his share. I have the space, I am going to let him live there, unless he starts to look distressed at all, sometimes I do wonder if I am being cruel though.

How strange? If he is eating and able to look after himself then I'd probably do the same thing and let him live out his life.
I have a swordtail female that had one of her pectoral fins ripped clean off by one of my few remaining silvertip tetras and she does fine. Not as extreme but as long as they are able to live a proper life I'd avoid the clove oil route.

Incidentally bought the tetras after an Aquarium Co-op vid suggested them as one of the tighter schooling fish but mine instantly dispersed, never shoaled and have become absolutely crazy full grown. They attack my rams and swordtails, even though they're bigger than they are. Never again!

 

So, its been a while since I last posted, time seems to fly. I have lots of GBR fry on the go, even one pair in the communal tank have managed to hold onto their fry - and they stole another batch too lol!

At last I have one pair of EBR who seem to be promising parents.. there is only a small batch of fry but its a good start.. they went free swimming today and were all over the tank but the parents coped really well.

The breeding tanks are not so great though in the main, and I think I have narrowed down the problem, thoughts would be welcome! The tanks are 60L so in your gallons around 15.8 Gallons. Those sponge filters at the back with the undergravel system (modded - see top down view when I bought them pic below) well the powerhead that came with them was a maxijet 900 (so its turning the water over 15 times an hour) - its so powerful I have to turn it off and rely on the air pump whenever there are fry in there as it will literally suck them off the floor!

Anyway, the fish seem like they are battling with the current the whole time and I think its tiring them out.. the only pair that have bred for the last few weeks in the breeding tanks does not have that pump in it, it has an airstone dropped into the tube you can see and its much gentler..

As an experiment I've turned off the powerheads to see what the fish do, but I would be interested to hear views. (each tank does have an airpump so they do have filtration still but I do want to make use of what is there)

IMG_4523

• DeniseF
• Apr 4, 2019

 

I am totally air driven sponges in breeding tanks .
Any other power filter even the small Aquaclear 20 get used with 2 month plus fry ..Never on breeding tanks ..
Go air and congrats on the spawns ! It is tough to keep up on fish and threads sometimes ..Fish come first ..

 

Nice to hear you have some good surviving spawns around.
If you have already invested in a few of those pumps you could try the same mod I did and use a small plastic peg to clamp a piece of foam into the outlet, to reduce the flowrate? Or zip-tie the foam or even some mesh in place if that doesn't work.
I assume the pumps are positioned low down? I can imagine that being a bit of a challenge for the fry, not sure if its possible for you to secure them higher up?

As I mentioned a while back I use a small internal filter filled largely with Matrix as well as a small corner sponge filter. It has adjustable flow but even with the outlet at the water surface and on its lowest setting, I add the foam to it when there are fry (or turn it off a while).
Ultimately though as CB says you really only need the air driven sponges - I just used the small internal as a supplement and had it lying around - it does keep the tank very clear and so far has worked ok. These are cool as you can use Matrix in them as well:

My 6 month old male black ram has grown about 20% bigger than the same age gold male in the community tank - I assume its just down to feeding better with less fighting for food. Being in there with just his female, no damaged fins, a relaxed general attitude, never a hint of illness - its been interesting to compare the small closed system of a breeder tank to a community where there is always something going down.
Here's a pic of the male - quite a nice looking guy with pretty much perfect shape. I don't name fish but the black pair have become Toast & Roast.

 

So, I have just spent the entire evening ripping out all my neatly cable tied powerhead pumps.. what a nightmare that was! Water changes done and now looking at happy fishes!

My EBR pair lost control of their fry and as there werent that many then saw them as fair game and ate them! I am encouraged though and think with a bigger spawn they will do well as a pair. I forgot to say but this was a viable spawn in tap water.. go figure!

 

I have a question - I started a thread because my golds laid eggs last night and I had no clue what to do. As far as I can tell the eggs are gone as this is a community tank with lots of egg predators but will know for sure when the lights come on. If I move the eggs to a fry net will that work? If so how do I get the eggs into the fry net. The parents were guarding the eggs religiously when I went to sleep but it is a large tank with lots of loaches. I'm cycling a 29 but it isn't ready and won't be for a couple of weeks. Also if I put dither fish in (5 or 6 cardinals) will that create an issue with the gold rams guarding the eggs ? I hate to dedicate the full tank to just two golds - also since they are doing well in the current tank I sort of hate to move them as they seem fragile. (this is stated in the other thread but I did nothing special to have them spawn - the tank is 80 degree; ph is around 7.2 hardness is up there around 5-7 and nitrate are around 20 - they just decided to spawn - and the male was sitting on them like a hen (at first I thought he was ill but then I noticed the eggs under him) haven't had the golds very long maybe 8 or 9 days. The male came from lfs and the female from coralbandit so I was totally shocked they laid eggs last night.

 

I have a question - I started a thread because my golds laid eggs last night and I had no clue what to do. As far as I can tell the eggs are gone as this is a community tank with lots of egg predators but will know for sure when the lights come on. If I move the eggs to a fry net will that work? If so how do I get the eggs into the fry net. The parents were guarding the eggs religiously when I went to sleep but it is a large tank with lots of loaches. I'm cycling a 29 but it isn't ready and won't be for a couple of weeks. Also if I put dither fish in (5 or 6 cardinals) will that create an issue with the gold rams guarding the eggs ? I hate to dedicate the full tank to just two golds - also since they are doing well in the current tank I sort of hate to move them as they seem fragile.

This thread is a good resource (there are other good ones too) for breeding rams in general. To artificially raise them from eggs you'd probably have to have them lay on some kind of removable object (rock, leaf, or clay pot/ lids), which you then remove from the tank (while keeping submerged in water at all times) and into some kind of breeder tank or a hatchery that sits on the tank edge. Rich's Fishes youtube channel shows that happening a lot: Rich's Fishes

I wouldn't try move them into a fry net as they'll likely get damaged and it'd be a tricky affair. The rams will almost certainly lay again anyway of things are stable in the tank. Keep TDS between 80 and 120 if you can?
A while back I did have a pair spawning in a community tank and the fry made it to free swimming stage for a couple days before being intercepted and eaten by tetras - I wouldn't add Cardinals if you want to try your luck at the natural way in a community tank. At that time I made a sort of improvised mesh enclosure around the eggs (they laid them on a large piece of driftwood, same place every time) and that prevented the eggs being eaten but the fry inevitably don't make it long in that sort of setting.

The whole affair did lead to my getting a dedicated ram breeder tank, with only a pair in it, and its been fun. In my limited experience the fry also don't last long without live food from the time they begin free swimming. I use microworms but baby brine shrimp seems the ideal option. Vinegar eels also can work but usually just in the early stages, followed shortly by bbs. Good luck!

 

One thing I would suggest you at least look at is a corner mittenburg filter - this is what I have in my 29 and is much gentler. I haven't raised frys (yet) but the filter seems much safer for frys. This is the link to where I picked it up (you can make one yourself if you have more skills than myself) and this is a picture of the tank (look on the right side and look at the very top to see the jet output (it is controlled with air and current can be controlled via airflow). I have a ugf that is not hoooked up under the gravel (not visible) to form a plenum (I also found a research paper that said plenum are a waste of time). The extra sponge filter in the middle of the tank is just for the next week or so to kick-start the cyle and then I will remove it (the tank has been setup for 3 days - so plants to cover the corner filter have not yet grown):

Cornerfilter Shop - SWISSTROPICALS
--
It'll take me a year or so to decide how well the filter works but from all report they work quite well.

So, its been a while since I last posted, time seems to fly. I have lots of GBR fry on the go, even one pair in the communal tank have managed to hold onto their fry - and they stole another batch too lol!

At last I have one pair of EBR who seem to be promising parents.. there is only a small batch of fry but its a good start.. they went free swimming today and were all over the tank but the parents coped really well.

The breeding tanks are not so great though in the main, and I think I have narrowed down the problem, thoughts would be welcome! The tanks are 60L so in your gallons around 15.8 Gallons. Those sponge filters at the back with the undergravel system (modded - see top down view when I bought them pic below) well the powerhead that came with them was a maxijet 900 (so its turning the water over 15 times an hour) - its so powerful I have to turn it off and rely on the air pump whenever there are fry in there as it will literally suck them off the floor!

Anyway, the fish seem like they are battling with the current the whole time and I think its tiring them out.. the only pair that have bred for the last few weeks in the breeding tanks does not have that pump in it, it has an airstone dropped into the tube you can see and its much gentler..

As an experiment I've turned off the powerheads to see what the fish do, but I would be interested to hear views. (each tank does have an airpump so they do have filtration still but I do want to make use of what is there)

IMG_4523

• DeniseF
• Apr 4, 2019

 

Evening all! Its been a while since I posted due to being busy with work, so I thought I'd show you a couple of pics of my breeding rams - these are from the first batches that I bred and I am pretty pleased with them. I haven't really seriously pursued selling any yet, I keep looking at them and thinking ooh that one is nice.. and that one, and that one.. etc etc..

I'm tweaking the breeding as while my GBR seem to be popping out spawns wherever there is a gap on the tank floor, the EBR just seem to eat them before I can even get at them. I've moved all bar 2 pair of GBR into the community tanks and now the EBR pairs are mostly in the pairs tanks.. I do think they are spawning in the community tanks though but I just can't see it as its so well camouflaged on the tank floor.

I had stopped putting the RO water in as it seemed the fish were breeding ok anyway, but the EBR did seem to have more white eggs so am now in the process of putting the EBR tanks back to 50% RO.

Hope everyone here is keeping well

Ebr Adult

• DeniseF
• Aug 11, 2019

Gbr Adult

• DeniseF
• Aug 11, 2019

oohh on a p.s aside note, I have mollies just about ready to go and I moved them to a bigger tank it was clean water but lots of algae on the glass/floor/plants.. in a few hours the mollies had completely eaten the lot! I've never seen anything like it.

 

Pretty fishes - that blue one looks nicer than the EBR I see in the shops - it seems much more solid blue (like a gold holding its breath).
-
Where do you get RO water? When I considered buying bottle water it seemed really expensive and I don't really have a good spot in my condo for a RO unit (even though it is cheaper than water).

I had stopped putting the RO water in as it seemed the fish were breeding ok anyway, but the EBR did seem to have more white eggs so am now in the process of putting the EBR tanks back to 50% RO.

Hope everyone here is keeping well

Ebr Adult

• DeniseF
• Aug 11, 2019

Gbr Adult

• DeniseF
• Aug 11, 2019

 

Both very nice looking fish !
Good to hear from you !

 

Pretty fishes - that blue one looks nicer than the EBR I see in the shops - it seems much more solid blue (like a gold holding its breath).
-
Where do you get RO water? When I considered buying bottle water it seemed really expensive and I don't really have a good spot in my condo for a RO unit (even though it is cheaper than water).

I have a 5 stage RO system under my sink, its pretty slow going though I can probably get 75L a day! Which is why when the fish were breeding without it, I stopped. It does seem though that the GBR don't need the RO and the EBR are more sensitive.
Yes the colour on the EBR is very nice.. all of mine are like that but they are more coloured when in breeding mode and all of the ones I have left are currently in pairs, hence the nice colour. I feed them Fluval Bug Bites, live BBS and also some frozen bloodworm, not sure if that contributes to colour, but certainly they are healthy.

Both very nice looking fish !
Good to hear from you !

Thanks, I am pleased with them, the GBR recently had the tip of one bottom fin nipped off by the female lol! Other than that, I really like the oval eye shape of the body on these. I do miss being on here, I've just been so busy with work, we've taken on a few new product lines and they all had to be photographed, catalogued and listed its been a mammoth job!

 

Evening all! Its been a while since I posted due to being busy with work, so I thought I'd show you a couple of pics of my breeding rams - these are from the first batches that I bred and I am pretty pleased with them. I haven't really seriously pursued selling any yet, I keep looking at them and thinking ooh that one is nice.. and that one, and that one.. etc etc..

I'm tweaking the breeding as while my GBR seem to be popping out spawns wherever there is a gap on the tank floor, the EBR just seem to eat them before I can even get at them. I've moved all bar 2 pair of GBR into the community tanks and now the EBR pairs are mostly in the pairs tanks.. I do think they are spawning in the community tanks though but I just can't see it as its so well camouflaged on the tank floor.

I had stopped putting the RO water in as it seemed the fish were breeding ok anyway, but the EBR did seem to have more white eggs so am now in the process of putting the EBR tanks back to 50% RO.

Hope everyone here is keeping well

Ebr Adult

• DeniseF
• Aug 11, 2019

Gbr Adult

• DeniseF
• Aug 11, 2019

oohh on a p.s aside note, I have mollies just about ready to go and I moved them to a bigger tank it was clean water but lots of algae on the glass/floor/plants.. in a few hours the mollies had completely eaten the lot! I've never seen anything like it.

Beautiful examples! Glad they're busy. Not sure if you saw on Polis thread - eggs being fertilised at +-350 TDS and a large spawn as well!
My breeder rams are still on vacation it seems, no spawning lately. No idea why, maybe I'll feed more bloodworm.

Was chatting to some breeders fairly recently on Reddit who are working on adding more blue attributes to black rams, and we've had a few electric blues imported to LFS that are a fairly interesting mix. They look like EBR that have been 50% 'burnt' and while they don't appeal all that much now I think in time they'll look great, assuming the lines develop well. They retain the red eye, which is nice.

 

Is there an algae eater that is safe to put int he tank with breeding rams ? ottos? whip tail cat? ramshorn snail ? Nothing?

 

Can the frys eat fluval bug bites ? My gold rams drop some eggs a few minutes ago - trying to decide what to do with the eggs. They had them on a lily leaf. The tank is a 29 with plants and 4 tiny kuhlI (would be food in my larger tank). I guess the golds kicked the kuhlI out of their corner since they laid eggs there and the kuhlI migrated to the coconut shell.
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There is a small sponge filter right next to the lily leaf which might be the reason they chose that spot or perhaps they picked the worse spot possible I have no clue in how the rams evaluated spots to put their eggs - I put slate in there for them in a quite spot but no that would have been too simple.
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anyway I sort of have another thread on this so will stop here - just curious if the small size fluval bug bites are fry eating size - if the eggs actually hatch - I could get some of that pretty fast since amazon sells it - or I could check the local lfs for bbs - but no clue how I could get them to the fry given the current from the sponges.

I feed them Fluval Bug Bites, live BBS and also some frozen bloodworm, not sure if that contributes to colour, but certainly they are healthy.

 

Can the frys eat fluval bug bites ? My gold rams drop some eggs a few minutes ago - trying to decide what to do with the eggs. They had them on a lily leaf. The tank is a 29 with plants and 4 tiny kuhlI (would be food in my larger tank). I guess the golds kicked the kuhlI out of their corner since they laid eggs there and the kuhlI migrated to the coconut shell.
-
There is a small sponge filter right next to the lily leaf which might be the reason they chose that spot or perhaps they picked the worse spot possible I have no clue in how the rams evaluated spots to put their eggs - I put slate in there for them in a quite spot but no that would have been too simple.
-
anyway I sort of have another thread on this so will stop here - just curious if the small size fluval bug bites are fry eating size - if the eggs actually hatch - I could get some of that pretty fast since amazon sells it - or I could check the local lfs for bbs - but no clue how I could get them to the fry given the current from the sponges.

HI Jake

Its more temperature than anything, some do put them with Otto's but only if you don't have the temp too high. However I don't have anything with the breeding pairs. In my community tank I have one pair of EBR but I never see them spawn.. if they do they get eaten pretty quick. The absolute best Algae eaters I have are Mollies.. I have new respect for them!

In terms of food, I feed my Juvvies bug bites, and if you don't have any BBS set up then crush up some Tetramin Baby, that's always worked for me. You do have time to get BBS set up if you can get some quickly though, you wouldnt need them for maybe 5-7 days if your rams just laid.

I have a little milestone myself.. my first fry that have made it past day 1 free swimming with their EBR parents! Its only a small spawn, but woohoo!

Ebr Parents 1

• DeniseF
• Aug 18, 2019

Ebr Parents 2

• DeniseF
• Aug 18, 2019

 

The parents raising fry is the cherry on top ! Enjoy !
IMO it only comes from having enough pairs that you can just let them do what they do .Also having enough allows you to let natural pairing occur ???
90% fail maybe …
Love the pics of the 10% success !!!
I got fish breeding just to laugh at me ! My F1 blacks are on fire ! They need no help from me besides water and food !
I like to think we fluff ourselves a little like a proud parent should but these fish got it going on without much from us once we get it right …
You have got it right ! Have fun .

 

Thanks for the feedback. My gold got as far as moving the hatched frys to a new spot; but the next morning I didn't see any frys - so I assume something happened overnight. That was the second time they laid eggs (the first time in that tank). If they follow the pattern they should lay eggs monday or tuesday. I'll give them another chance - and if it fail - maybe try collecting the eggs the time after that. They laid them on a dwarf lily last time - no clue where they will lay them this time. In the tank I have 2 golds, 4 tiny kuhlI (which I will move when they are big enough to not be angel food; or maybe sooner when I get the 2nd 29 setup) and 2 snails - one olive nerite and one apple mystery - I'll move both of those when the 'new tank' algae phase is over (they poop too much). This is the tank. (I say I will move the kuhlI in a month but that is conditional that I can catch them). I been keeping the tank at 82:
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I did check with the local lfs and they have live bbs for $1; so if I get as far as free swimming I can drive over there and pick some up in a hurry - I think I'll go that route until I actually end up in a situation where I need them more often.
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I really like the golds - I wasn't going to mess with rams but then I saw the males in the lfs and they were so much nicer than the gbr (imho). mine don't have the stripes near the eye. The female I got from coralbandit. I actually have two females but this pair was beating it to death (they nearly killed the other male I have); so I have her in the community tank. Now that they are gone her personality has really changed (when they were in the tank she hid even during feeding time - now she shoves the angels out of the way and gets her fair share of food - she is a bit smaller - not sure if she is younger or just diminutive size but she is spunky thing.
--
I had another thread with my problem with these golds but is it ok if I just forget about that thread and use this one for further updates ?

 

So, its been a long time since I've posted, work has been insanely busy and a nightmare in equal parts! Many may not know but apart from my equestrian business, we buy product from auction, refurbish and sell on ebay. Our main product was a particular brand of Hoover but this last 12 months their business was in trouble and a new director decided it would also be a good idea to refurbish and sell on ebay! Nice huh so in a year of course they wiped us out of the ball park.

Queue, we started buying other products which was a bit of a steep learning curve, since (if any of you have traded on ebay, you know ebay buyers are pretty demanding and expect you to know the products inside out back to front). Of course I started buying fish products, but have since expanded to other stuff as well.

That proved a great success, queue my other half trying to help me and since all our stock was on an excel spreadsheet (months and months worth) I shared the file on our network, so he could access and update it! Well, one day my computer crashed while he had the excel document (holy grail) open, and I lost EVERYTHING! I spent several weeks reconstructing that, then decided to create a database that could be hosted on our server for stock.

THEN, my computer died completely (thankfully after I uploaded everything, so I bought a new hard drive THEN Windows 10 decided it doesn't like you swapping in/out hard drives and CORRUPTED my Hard drive with all my back up data.

<<<sighs at this point tearing hair out>>>

I have managed to establish the data isn't lost, but the program I am using takes half a day to upload and days to recover and Windows 10 keeps re-starting even though I have turned the updates off, so at the moment its still ongoing.

Anyhow! To cut a long story short, I haven't had much time for posting and talking fishes! My rams are all doing great, I have had one tank I've been battling pop eye with - I think there is something in the tank, because fish that I have moved out of that tank are doing fine.. It does have some of that black hair algae on the bogwood, so I have yesterday, scrubbed that and syphoned the gravel to see if that helps. Other than that all tanks are doing great! I've had some EBR and German Spawns, but since I've been so busy I've missed some and not gotten the Brine Shrimp on the go, so the babies got eaten. Though over xmas I've been able to wind down and have done a spring (early spring) clean on all the tanks and currently have 2 pairs with spawns eating well.

I've been working hard on getting the breeding tanks just right and have bought a load of bogwood that I have put in the larger tanks that have green algae grass on the bogwood (not sure what type but its really pretty) once that takes I will put some in each of the tanks. I've also added a live potted plant which all the fish seem to like and should provide somewhere for them to put their fry if they want a hidey hole or two, plus help deal with nitrates.

Additionally, I've created an inbuilt sump filter for all of the breeding tanks as they all came with a glass partition for a sponge filter. I've added some quality Biohome Ultimate and Ceramic Media to all of the breeding tanks - I did have two with this already and the fish are super healthy - to further provide the absolute best environment for my pairs.

All of them breed successfully in my tap water, which means no messing around with RO and I rarely get any white eggs anymore.

Hopefully I will finally be able to get my hands on some of Marco's fish shortly as I think he now has bred enough of the Blue Knights and Dark Knights for me to have some. I've already agreed a deal with a good price with my LFS shop and have put in place plans for him to take some of my current stock of regular rams to give me some room.

So, all in all its shaping up to be an exciting 2020! Happy new year to you all Denise

 

So, its been a long time since I've posted, work has been insanely busy and a nightmare in equal parts! Many may not know but apart from my equestrian business, we buy product from auction, refurbish and sell on ebay. Our main product was a particular brand of Hoover but this last 12 months their business was in trouble and a new director decided it would also be a good idea to refurbish and sell on ebay! Nice huh so in a year of course they wiped us out of the ball park.

Queue, we started buying other products which was a bit of a steep learning curve, since (if any of you have traded on ebay, you know ebay buyers are pretty demanding and expect you to know the products inside out back to front). Of course I started buying fish products, but have since expanded to other stuff as well.

That proved a great success, queue my other half trying to help me and since all our stock was on an excel spreadsheet (months and months worth) I shared the file on our network, so he could access and update it! Well, one day my computer crashed while he had the excel document (holy grail) open, and I lost EVERYTHING! I spent several weeks reconstructing that, then decided to create a database that could be hosted on our server for stock.

THEN, my computer died completely (thankfully after I uploaded everything, so I bought a new hard drive THEN Windows 10 decided it doesn't like you swapping in/out hard drives and CORRUPTED my Hard drive with all my back up data.

<<<sighs at this point tearing hair out>>>

I have managed to establish the data isn't lost, but the program I am using takes half a day to upload and days to recover and Windows 10 keeps re-starting even though I have turned the updates off, so at the moment its still ongoing.

Anyhow! To cut a long story short, I haven't had much time for posting and talking fishes! My rams are all doing great, I have had one tank I've been battling pop eye with - I think there is something in the tank, because fish that I have moved out of that tank are doing fine.. It does have some of that black hair algae on the bogwood, so I have yesterday, scrubbed that and syphoned the gravel to see if that helps. Other than that all tanks are doing great! I've had some EBR and German Spawns, but since I've been so busy I've missed some and not gotten the Brine Shrimp on the go, so the babies got eaten. Though over xmas I've been able to wind down and have done a spring (early spring) clean on all the tanks and currently have 2 pairs with spawns eating well.

I've been working hard on getting the breeding tanks just right and have bought a load of bogwood that I have put in the larger tanks that have green algae grass on the bogwood (not sure what type but its really pretty) once that takes I will put some in each of the tanks. I've also added a live potted plant which all the fish seem to like and should provide somewhere for them to put their fry if they want a hidey hole or two, plus help deal with nitrates.

Additionally, I've created an inbuilt sump filter for all of the breeding tanks as they all came with a glass partition for a sponge filter. I've added some quality Biohome Ultimate and Ceramic Media to all of the breeding tanks - I did have two with this already and the fish are super healthy - to further provide the absolute best environment for my pairs.

All of them breed successfully in my tap water, which means no messing around with RO and I rarely get any white eggs anymore.

Hopefully I will finally be able to get my hands on some of Marco's fish shortly as I think he now has bred enough of the Blue Knights and Dark Knights for me to have some. I've already agreed a deal with a good price with my LFS shop and have put in place plans for him to take some of my current stock of regular rams to give me some room.

So, all in all its shaping up to be an exciting 2020! Happy new year to you all **** Denise

Nice to get some updates and glad the rams are doing ok and the fish room is going strong. Sounds like 2019 was a crazy and stressful year for you though, wow! Good to hear all is coming right.
I'm also waiting on some fish from Marco, when available, and have set up a couple more tanks over December. He's got a few wild caught rams that he's apparently strengthening his lines with - not sure if you've seen his thread on the TASA forum? Some cool stuff cooking there...
I see he is now including some aquasoil + planted tupperware areas in his bare bottom breeder tanks, apparently helping his fry survival rates when left with parents?
Anyway, all the best for 2020 - hope to see more updates as things go along!