Electric Blue Ram Breeding Advice

Hate to say cycle matters little to me ..
Get sponges going in any/every cycled tank and they might be able to be moved .
I just do extra water changes along with having all tanks running .
When I have a tank fishless I still keep it up and running often not cleaning it after I pull the fish until it is ready to be stocked .
I would think getting them back to 82 is more important then time ? They cooled down in shipping for time frame ?

Essentially it will be overnight, the flight is 11 hours so allowing for waiting and transport this end it won't be more than 24 hours. Of course I would be keeping a very close eye on the water anyway and as you say extra water changes.. I may even put them on the very established tank on my desk it would easily accomodate 100 fish since it has 150 of that size in already. Its a while yet so I have plenty of time!

Hopefully I will have all the wiring and airline in this weekend so will take an updated pic or two of my progress on the fish room. I think I could probably fit a few more filters in the existing tanks as well to help the cycling along a bit.

 

So I’m putting my Black Ram female with my male Gold Ram to see what happens. I would be ecstatic if they all come out black!

 

So I’m putting my Black Ram female with my male Gold Ram to see what happens. I would be ecstatic if they all come out black!

My breedings of gold and dark have yielded 50/50 or even a little heavy on the gold side ...

 

My breedings of gold and dark have yielded 50/50 or even a little heavy on the gold side ...

How dark? Dark like the parent or just a little darker than usual?

 

Pretty Dark …
I used super Dark and my oldest fry are only 1 month old this week.
Second batch seems gold heavy being just 9 days younger , but the blacks are fairly dark for 3 weeks old .

 

Pretty Dark …
I used super Dark and my oldest fry are only 1 month old this week.
Second batch seems gold heavy being just 9 days younger , but the blacks are fairly dark for 3 weeks old .

Love to see some pics when you have time!

 

My pictures always suck so I need to do a video so everyone can see what I see ..
I will say as far as darks go I get my largest % from my F1 where the first golds appeared .It is their brother and sister that produce the darkest fish so far but not even 50% dark from whole batch . Funny is their gold brother and sister are my best gold pair ! Shooting 100% great golds while their sister and brother golds are mated with dark and shoot a better % then all but the F1s.
Besides possibly getting closer to true the dark to dark [the right ones ] is the path to travel I believe to get dark eventually .
Rich has talked to several people and one actually explained [possibly] why the black is either very difficult to lock in [un like the Electric blue anything] or possibly will never lock in ?
They seem the rage all around but the saddest part is they are tougher to keep then GBR for real ! I kind of can't believe they are still in favor ?
I do love the challenge of complicated things though so I will trudge on regardless !

 

My pictures always suck so I need to do a video so everyone can see what I see ..
I will say as far as darks go I get my largest % from my F1 where the first golds appeared .It is their brother and sister that produce the darkest fish so far but not even 50% dark from whole batch . Funny is their gold brother and sister are my best gold pair ! Shooting 100% great golds while their sister and brother golds are mated with dark and shoot a better % then all but the F1s.
Besides possibly getting closer to true the dark to dark [the right ones ] is the path to travel I believe to get dark eventually .
Rich has talked to several people and one actually explained [possibly] why the black is either very difficult to lock in [un like the Electric blue anything] or possibly will never lock in ?
They seem the rage all around but the saddest part is they are tougher to keep then GBR for real ! I kind of can't believe they are still in favor ?
I do love the challenge of complicated things though so I will trudge on regardless !

I've been watching Rich's latest videos on his newly purchased rams.. they are almost identical in shape/colour to the ones I had which sadly didnt survive. He has medicated his so hopefully he will fare better.
I'm going to get some of Marco's fish, its a risk but I don't see any other way of getting anything black wise I can work with, I think you are right about the challenge of keeping them though I am hoping with his fish some of those difficulties will have already been bred out. I am going to be buying fish that I don't actually need, but I'm not going to sell them as after all that trouble I don't really want someone else picking them up and beating me to it!
I think you will get there, I do think some of it is luck though because you need to get that pair that only have that black gene.

 

I've been watching Rich's latest videos on his newly purchased rams.. they are almost identical in shape/colour to the ones I had which sadly didnt survive. He has medicated his so hopefully he will fare better.
I'm going to get some of Marco's fish, its a risk but I don't see any other way of getting anything black wise I can work with, I think you are right about the challenge of keeping them though I am hoping with his fish some of those difficulties will have already been bred out. I am going to be buying fish that I don't actually need, but I'm not going to sell them as after all that trouble I don't really want someone else picking them up and beating me to it!
I think you will get there, I do think some of it is luck though because you need to get that pair that only have that black gene.

I'm getting several of Marco's rams (2 black, 2 gold) in 3 weeks or so - looking forward to it! Hopefully a pair come out of that, for my pretty much ready little breeder tank (just for fun really). How many Dark Knights are you hoping to order? His other lines are great too so worthy getting a few others no doubt. The parasite free part of his breeding is a real bonus.
I was interested to read on some other forum thread that he doesn't use vinegar eels for any of his fry (low nutritional value) - using microworms/ BBS and other stuff instead.

Also saw Cory had a glimpse of 'super red' rams on one of his videos at a another fish store (gold rams, but with red markings on the body more or less where black spots are on GBR). Anyone else heard of those? Can't find anything online so far. The idea of koi type red markings on a ram sounds awesome.

As to the percentages of black fry, does it not make any difference which parent is black? I'd assume not, just wondering if perhaps the strain passes on as more prevalent in male or female.

 

I'm getting several of Marco's rams (2 black, 2 gold) in 3 weeks or so - looking forward to it! Hopefully a pair come out of that, for my pretty much ready little breeder tank (just for fun really). How many Dark Knights are you hoping to order? His other lines are great too so worthy getting a few others no doubt. The parasite free part of his breeding is a real bonus.
I was interested to read on some other forum thread that he doesn't use vinegar eels for any of his fry (low nutritional value) - using microworms/ BBS and other stuff instead.

Also saw Cory had a glimpse of 'super red' rams on one of his videos at a another fish store (gold rams, but with red markings on the body more or less where black spots are on GBR). Anyone else heard of those? Can't find anything online so far. The idea of koi type red markings on a ram sounds awesome.

As to the percentages of black fry, does it not make any difference which parent is black? I'd assume not, just wondering if perhaps the strain passes on as more prevalent in male or female.

I'm not sure on what quantities I will get of which yet, as you say he has some regular rams that I have already and may not be a bad thing to introduce some of his. All mine are dewormed as well so hopefully I'm not going to cause those fish any issues..
Havent seen the super red rams at all, that would be interesting. I know Cory has had discussions with Dean about that and they all thought they would be very desirable. I actually prefer the yellow gold ones or even the almost white ones that coralbandit has - I just like that colour variant.

Marco did tell me the manufacturer of the food he has so going to get some more info on that. He had some pics of his fry on facebook and the size of them was really good. I feed mostly the fluval bug bites and baby brine shrimp, but although the fish love the fluval food, 58% of it is declared as Black Soldier Fly larvae and Salmon, the rest is listed as various other things, wheat, potato, peas, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, calendula and rosemary. It sounds good, but 42% of it is not separated into what it is, I'd prefer it if I knew approximate percentages of all ingredients, but I suppose they wouldnt really want people knowing the exact formula.

If you go on the Bolivian and German Blue Ram facebook page, Marco did a post on how these fish breed colour wise.. I did try to share it on here but it was deleted by a moderator for copyright, but you can join the page and see it anyway. I believe it was a January post.

 

I have not seen Cory and Deans vid but like the idea of red rams . I actually thought I would have a more red ram when I first breed the GBR/EBR hybrids .
Many of these females are so red not just in the belly or when ready to breed. Without matching males it is difficult to breed for the color but now I have the golds which I guess are a win win ?
You see as I understand they are 'blank slates' to stronger or other genes ? Pardon if my phrasing is all wrong as I have no biology training .
Next the golds I have been blessed with [the pale white DeniseF likes ] have grow to have some wonderful gold and RED coloring …
Just happen to have male Gold the will be getting a new Red [hybrid] female ..
Here she is ;




Again my pictures suck and she is really a beautiful red as much as the blue shows !...

 

I'm not sure on what quantities I will get of which yet, as you say he has some regular rams that I have already and may not be a bad thing to introduce some of his. All mine are dewormed as well so hopefully I'm not going to cause those fish any issues..
Havent seen the super red rams at all, that would be interesting. I know Cory has had discussions with Dean about that and they all thought they would be very desirable. I actually prefer the yellow gold ones or even the almost white ones that coralbandit has - I just like that colour variant.

Marco did tell me the manufacturer of the food he has so going to get some more info on that. He had some pics of his fry on facebook and the size of them was really good. I feed mostly the fluval bug bites and baby brine shrimp, but although the fish love the fluval food, 58% of it is declared as Black Soldier Fly larvae and Salmon, the rest is listed as various other things, wheat, potato, peas, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, calendula and rosemary. It sounds good, but 42% of it is not separated into what it is, I'd prefer it if I knew approximate percentages of all ingredients, but I suppose they wouldnt really want people knowing the exact formula.

If you go on the Bolivian and German Blue Ram facebook page, Marco did a post on how these fish breed colour wise.. I did try to share it on here but it was deleted by a moderator for copyright, but you can join the page and see it anyway. I believe it was a January post.

Ah ok, cool. In some ram s online the golds often have bright red noses that sort of gradient backwards towards pale yellow - we just don't see those in S. Africa ever (at least I have not for the last couple years). I have however seen some pretty much all white rams marketed as 'platinum rams', and last week I saw a Bolivian that was almost white as well - no colour at all! And it was quite large as well and wasn't stress related or anything, just an unusually pale ram. Those 'yellow' anomaly rams coralbandit bred were quite interesting - complete with yellow eyes even! And they grew huge as a result of high GH if I remember right?

Edit: Made a mess of that post with the quote, but to continue-

coralbandit - is one able to use an EBR / Gold cross or 'Powder blue' as a sort of blank slate ram, given their bodies are quite pale? And then pair with a GBR or similar ram for whichever dominant colour traits you are after? Those rams in the pics are great (GBR x EBR hybrid with good red and blue colouration?) and I'd be first in line for red rams!

 

Geo Tropics in Arkansas - probably old news here - but he has bred some great looking rams over the years and worth a google if anyone hasn't seen 'em.
Mostly longfin variants though...

 

Those are nice fish there he has .
Last entry says he will e closing up long term ?
Just posted video on my ADA/fish room thread of my rams and fry mostly .

 

Those are nice fish there he has .
Last entry says he will e closing up long term ?
Just posted video on my ADA/fish room thread of my rams and fry mostly .

Pretty cool huh? I couldn't find the link until I remembered the 'dragonfly' naming he uses. Unsure why he's taking a break - it happens I guess? I know he's been working on rams for a few years as well and also seems to have done some initial stock sourcing from Europe and Israel.

 

I just realized that this Ram was born without pelvic fins. Guess he’ll stay with me forever, not culling or breeding him just gunna keep him as any other fish I have

 

I just realized that this Ram was born without pelvic fins. Guess he’ll stay with me forever, not culling or breeding him just gunna keep him as any other fish I have

That happens to me pretty often .Maybe it is just not easily noticed until 4 plus months old ?
They are the only rams I ever seem to have to cull.
I guess like in angels it is pretty common.
Someone once explained common deformities in different animals as usually being something that although clearly missing or wrong , does little besides have an aesthetic effect.
Most of my rams like this are 100% otherwise healthy !

 

How far down the ram/ rabbit hole must one travel to actually buy these sneakers?

 

Those sneakers are Ramtastic!!!

 

They seem almost like proper fish room attire !

 

They seem almost like proper fish room attire !

coralbandit these were made for you!

 

My pictures always suck so I need to do a video so everyone can see what I see ..
I will say as far as darks go I get my largest % from my F1 where the first golds appeared .It is their brother and sister that produce the darkest fish so far but not even 50% dark from whole batch . Funny is their gold brother and sister are my best gold pair ! Shooting 100% great golds while their sister and brother golds are mated with dark and shoot a better % then all but the F1s.
Besides possibly getting closer to true the dark to dark [the right ones ] is the path to travel I believe to get dark eventually .
Rich has talked to several people and one actually explained [possibly] why the black is either very difficult to lock in [un like the Electric blue anything] or possibly will never lock in ?
They seem the rage all around but the saddest part is they are tougher to keep then GBR for real ! I kind of can't believe they are still in favor ?
I do love the challenge of complicated things though so I will trudge on regardless !

Someone told me a while ago, which I mentioned here at some point, that you start to get that jet black once you get to F4?


Those shoes remind me of my Vans with cats on them, might have to get me a pair

 

Well, this is the last time I’m ever leaving the parent with the fry. I’m pretty torn up over this, I loved this Ram. See the fry he choked on to death in his mouth? You think you’ve seen it all and then you get something like this. The fry are all doing excellent, but honestly I’m just very saddened by this. I was in the other room doing homework, I just wish I would’ve walked in and checked.

 

Well, this is the last time I’m ever leaving the parent with the fry. I’m pretty torn up over this, I loved this Ram. See the fry he choked on to death in his mouth? You think you’ve seen it all and then you get something like this. The fry are all doing excellent, but honestly I’m just very saddened by this. I was in the other room doing homework, I just wish I would’ve walked in and checked.

What a crazy and unlikely sight, that's awful

 

Well, this is the last time I’m ever leaving the parent with the fry. I’m pretty torn up over this, I loved this Ram. See the fry he choked on to death in his mouth? You think you’ve seen it all and then you get something like this. The fry are all doing excellent, but honestly I’m just very saddened by this. I was in the other room doing homework, I just wish I would’ve walked in and checked.

OMG that is so sad! You just would never think something like that would happen! I'm not sure there would have been much you could have done though it would have been pretty quick. Still it really sucks tho!

 

I pulled the fish out pretty easily, I just don’t understand why he did that

 

Rams constantly do things that I don't understand why they do it !

 

I wanted to add some video/pics of my progress on the fish room but my phone has decided to die! Ordered a new part/fitted it - still dead! Ebay seller I bought it off has been "removed from ebay" so probably faulty! Hence ordered another part and as soon as I am back up and running I will take some pics. I also have my GBR Fry from my very dark ram starting to show their stripes so to speak, so wanted to show what they look like as well.

Have been very busy and yesterday moved all of my fry to the tanks around my desk so I can keep a close eye on them all.

Oh and my experiment with the Oxytetracycline and Algae has worked so I need to get an after pic of that too! So it definitely was not a co-incidence. I now am going to dose my last planted tank as I swear the plants would thank me if they could! You don't need much of it, half a teaspoon in a 180L is enough (normal antibiotic dose is half a small bottle per 100kg weight of water) it does seem to harm Java Moss though as well, but all other plants I have seem ok.

 

So, I just added up the entire cost of setting up this fish room, I have 19 tanks total with an additional 5 purchased for later if required + Ability for 16 Fry holding stations. Including heaters, filters, airlines, sponge filters, pumps and set up of the fry tray system. £1110! Total $1434 approx. I'm pretty pleased with that!

 

So, I just added up the entire cost of setting up this fish room, I have 19 tanks total with an additional 5 purchased for later if required + Ability for 16 Fry holding stations. Including heaters, filters, airlines, sponge filters, pumps and set up of the fry tray system. £1110! Total $1434 approx. I'm pretty pleased with that!

Nice. How are you going to do all the plumbing, etc? Seems like a daunting task, but no doubt rewarding once its all working efficiently.
I just bought another 15 gallon for another pair of rams. So it begins :/

 

Nice. How are you going to do all the plumbing, etc? Seems like a daunting task, but no doubt rewarding once its all working efficiently.
I just bought another 15 gallon for another pair of rams. So it begins :/

At the moment it will be all manual changes, I have a sink about 15ft away and outdoor drainage, however we are looking at ways to make use of waste water for some kind of fruit and vegetable growth to avoid waste. Another project tho! I use a Karcher attachment that has an end on it with mesh so I can pop it in one tank, drain it without risking the fry then move onto the next. Filling up will mainly be tricky since its going to be RO water and some of the tanks are quite high.. I do have a good pump though so will probably follow a similar system that I use to drain, in reverse.

 

Fry at night

 

Hoping you are just busy and all is well...

 

Wow Denise, that looks incredible
Great job. I haven't caught up with this yet, but how do you do the water changes when they are just newborns? I was reading about the mesh thing, do you siphon the water from one tank to other and collect fry in screening? I apologise if I'm way off, but thinking that beats hoping not to suck up fry, then searching and trying to trap accidentally siphoned fry with a turkey baster. Water changes with small fry was always what I hated most. I have to revise my method. Tx!

 

Hoping you are just busy and all is well...

EDIT: Lol I was looking at the wrong thread. Sorry about that!

Wow Denise, that looks incredible
Great job. I haven't caught up with this yet, but how do you do the water changes when they are just newborns? I was reading about the mesh thing, do you siphon the water from one tank to other and collect fry in screening? I apologise if I'm way off, but thinking that beats hoping not to suck up fry, then searching and trying to trap accidentally siphoned fry with a turkey baster. Water changes with small fry was always what I hated most. I have to revise my method. Tx!

EDIT: Ahh I'm sorry, don't know why but I thought I was looking at my own thread for some reason. Oops

 

Hoping you are just busy and all is well...

Hi

yes I have been really busy, there hadn't been much news on the fish room front as just waiting for cycling, but glad to report that as of today, my 9 breeding tanks are cycled YAH! And... I took a trip down to a really nice fish shop near me and told him about my rams and he is going to try them! So that's cool!

Its going to take me a week or so to get all the tanks set up with RO but I'm going to get some pairs put in as I go. I've also been thinking long and hard about actually running this as a business and it strikes me that one of the biggest issues in terms of production is having enough of each type of fish at the right stage to sell through on any kind of scale. Often I see people with amazing fish on facebook or youtube and they always have waiting lists - I am going to focus on trying to get the system right and that's going to be tough, but I'd like to see it work.

Wow Denise, that looks incredible
Great job. I haven't caught up with this yet, but how do you do the water changes when they are just newborns? I was reading about the mesh thing, do you siphon the water from one tank to other and collect fry in screening? I apologise if I'm way off, but thinking that beats hoping not to suck up fry, then searching and trying to trap accidentally siphoned fry with a turkey baster. Water changes with small fry was always what I hated most. I have to revise my method. Tx!

Hi

I'll take a pic of what I use, its basically the end of a Karcher see the black end with the little cage on, its got a non return valve in, I cut that bit out and then lengthened the hose so it fit out of my door. I covered the cage bit with an intake hose sponge, I can use this set up on any tank with fry in and they are ok, however you can't gravel vac.. that's the only downside really. On my new tanks I've tiled them with slate coloured tiles though! No Gravel, No problem lol!

 

Glad to hear all is well and you are planning things out proper ..
It is best to approach like a business and not loose sight of what is popular and what will be !
If I had lost track of one other fish for the blacks I would have been remiss .. Even my swordtails got special 'business minded' attention since they are rare and in demand over the winter while I worked the blacks..
Once you plan out a fish room every tank counts so devoting tanks is really a business investment ,whether growing out or breeding pairs..
All that being said if your fish are high quality and you can keep up [wait and see!] it is a business even if it is just for fun .There are a lot of people out there looking for quality rams , and honestly many other fish .

 

DeniseF Look forward to seeing it come together!

I managed to get 4 rams from Marco - they're great quality in every respect I'm glad to say. Tangibly tough, look good and spawned exactly 48 hours after getting into the tank. Curiously, the two females (gold and black) laid eggs at the same time, in the same cave ornament, side by side, while a black male did his part. So, three rams criss crossing around each other - pretty amusing to say the least. The knuckleheads ate the eggs a couple days later though - at 4 Months old, first crack at it, to be expected.

I did however have a similar shock event to yours a while back - somehow left my heater off after a WC yesterday evening and basically was this comic when I checked the thermometer this morning (down to 21C / 70F).
The rams just seemed a bit less active than normal which alerted me. Put in a dose of Stresscoat and a pinch of a locally made garlic/ vitamin C supplement and holding thumbs they'll be ok. I know yours picked up a bout of Ich?
I feel like I need a dose of Stresscoat myself. Will be able to keep an eye on them today but I suppose there is not much more I can do.

 

DeniseF Look forward to seeing it come together!

I managed to get 4 rams from Marco - they're great quality in every respect I'm glad to say. Tangibly tough, look good and spawned exactly 48 hours after getting into the tank. Curiously, the two females (gold and black) laid eggs at the same time, in the same cave ornament, side by side, while a black male did his part. So, three rams criss crossing around each other - pretty amusing to say the least. The knuckleheads ate the eggs a couple days later though - at 4 Months old, first crack at it, to be expected.

I did however have a similar shock event to yours a while back - somehow left my heater off after a WC yesterday evening and basically was this comic when I checked the thermometer this morning (down to 21C / 70F).
The rams just seemed a bit less active than normal which alerted me. Put in a dose of Stresscoat and a pinch of a locally made garlic/ vitamin C supplement and holding thumbs they'll be ok. I know yours picked up a bout of Ich?
I feel like I need a dose of Stresscoat myself. Will be able to keep an eye on them today but I suppose there is not much more I can do.

Well done on noticing.. I think if you watch your fish closely normally you can see when they don't look right and solve it quickly.. I'm sure they will be fine. I have got on order 100 fish from him, I should be looking at about 3 months before he has them for me, but I am very excited! Good luck with the spawning though!

 

Well done on noticing.. I think if you watch your fish closely normally you can see when they don't look right and solve it quickly.. I'm sure they will be fine. I have got on order 100 fish from him, I should be looking at about 3 months before he has them for me, but I am very excited! Good luck with the spawning though!

Yeah a little relieved, I've now put a neon decal beside the heater plug to hopefully ensure it never happens again. So far so good, they appear ok so far.

100 Fish - that's quite an order! I'm sure you will be pleased with them. Short of his, rams from Israel have been the best we have gotten stocked in S. Africa. Rest tend to come from Asia, so more or less pre-dead.