Dwarf Sag Not Doing Well - I Need Help!!

Owen88
  • #1
So I planted some dwarf sag three weeks ago and it was doing fine but over the past week it has started to quickly die. I am using a plant plus on max from 7 am to 6 pm where I turn it to night mode till 9 then off. I am also dosing excel flourish Twitter ce per week. I am also noticing a recent sudden growth in cloudy water and algae. I need help.
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Gypsy13
  • #2
Anyone with eyes out tonight?
What are your parameters?
 
Owen88
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
Anyone with eyes out tonight?
What are your parameters?

Ram, Cories, 11 glolights.
A 0 N0 N5 gh about 5 I think temp 25.5
 
Gypsy13
  • #4
Sounds good. Off topic but what substrate are you using?

Hunter1 check out these plants? I wand dwarf sag too.
 
Owen88
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
Sounds good. Off topic but what substrate are you using?

Hunter1 check out these plants? I wand dwarf sag too.

I don’t know. It was one that said it had some nutrients and it was a good price. I think it was super Naturals by Carib sea. It was like eco complete with no liquid
 
Thunder_o_b
  • #6
While I use flourish Excel and my plants love it, there are several plants that it kills. vals, sag and moss ball are some. I have heard that you can slowly acclimate the vals and sag but I do not know the procedure.
 
DoubleDutch
  • #7
Ram, Cories, 11 glolights.
A 0 N0 N5 gh about 5 I think temp 25.5
What figures are these exact?
The swords isn't 100% happy as well.
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #8
He may have a nitrogen deficiency. Although Flourish does have a decent amount of N, (about 3.00% with his double dosing weekly) it may still not be sufficient) And may need more of that, and/or root tabs as well. A. Swords are notorious root tab and substate pigs, so also keep that in mind. On my 55, I use API root tabs and Flourish tabs (macro and micro) and bury those in the substrate twice per month now...especially by the 6 A. swords. Oh, and are you using any methods to circulate/agitate the water at all? They also may be deprived of CO2/oxygen...
 
Owen88
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
He may have a nitrogen deficiency. Although Flourish does have a decent amount of N, (about 3.00% with his double dosing weekly) it may still not be sufficient) And may need more of that, and/or root tabs as well. A. Swords are notorious root tab and substate pigs, so also keep that in mind. On my 55, I use API root tabs and Flourish tabs (macro and micro) and bury those in the substrate twice per month now...especially by the 6 A. swords. Oh, and are you using any methods to circulate/agitate the water at all? They also may be deprived of CO2/oxygen...

The only one I’m not 100% positive on is the GH the API gh and kh test is weird. Yes I have a bubbler for extra oxygen
 
Owen88
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
While I use flourish Excel and my plants love it, there are several plants that it kills. vals, sag and moss ball are some. I have heard that you can slowly acclimate the vals and sag but I do not know the procedure.

So the stuff I bought to help my plants is probably killing them
 
FriarThomasIII
  • #11
yup. you could start using osmocote root tabs? I use them and they made my plants grow better and quicker, if that will help
 
Thunder_o_b
  • #12
So the stuff I bought to help my plants is probably killing them
Yeah, I love SeaChem products, but it would be nice if they put a warning on Excel.
 
Ryan P
  • #13
I have dwarf sag on my tank, I don't think it's the excel though. I had to overdose my tank with excel and even spot treat on the dwarf sag because of BBA issue and they seem to don't mind the extra excel
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #14
Do keep in mind that Excel IS essentially an algaecide, and directly hinders algae growth so plants can adjust and "catch up". Some seasoned tanks like it, and become accustomed to it...and in some other seasoned, low tech. tanks can get "shocked" by it, so keep that in mind as well.
 
Thunder_o_b
  • #15
Do keep in mind that Excel IS essentially an algaecide,

This is not accurate. Excel does hinder algae but it is far from its primary function. Please read this.
Seachem - Flourish Excel
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #16
It still IS an algaecide though. And does other things too heh Use gloves when handling this stuff too!
 
Thunder_o_b
  • #17
It still IS an algaecide though. And does other things too heh Use gloves when handling this stuff too!
Yeah, you would not want to bath in it
 
SFGiantsGuy
  • #18
LOL!!!
 
EbiAqua
  • #19
If you have the dwarf sag in plain sand, that is why it is dying. Dwarf sag is a heavy root feeder that needs a nutrient-rich substrate to thrive. If you're not using root tabs, I suggest getting some and placing them at the base of the plants.

The cloudy water may be an algae bloom from dosing twice a week. From the pictures I see, none of your plants are water column feeders. Do a water change, get some root tabs, and limit your lights to 6-7 hours per day.
 
FishTankFanatic
  • #20
I have 13 dwarf sag plants in my aquarium and only 1 out of 13 has shot runners and I'm confused because its shot 2 runners and is on it's way to 3 of them but not 1 other plant has runners but one of them has 3? Any ideas?

Also it's a 55 gallon I dose with seachem flourish every night.
 
Shrimp42
  • #21
What lighting are you using? It may be they are just settling in your tank. How long have you had them? I would also try some root tabs next to the sag as well.
 
FishTankFanatic
  • #22
What lighting are you using? It may be they are just settling in your tank. How long have you had them? I would also try some root tabs next to the sag as well.
I have a high lighting they've all been in a little over a month some have been repositioned once or twice but for the most part they've been left alone to root themselves and should be thriving their roots are longer but no runners besides on the one that is ACTUALLY thriving idk what root tans are unless they're the things that the plants have on at first, the bit of wrap and a rubberband? where could I get, root tabs, what do they do, and thanks for helping.
 
-Mak-
  • #23
What is your actual light name and brand? What substrate? Can you post a picture?

Seachem flourish is not meant to be dosed every day, the bottle says once a week. It's also not a great fertilizer when used alone, because it contains very little nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, which plants use the most after carbon.
 
Shrimp42
  • #24
I have a high lighting they've all been in a little over a month some have been repositioned once or twice but for the most part they've been left alone to root themselves and should be thriving their roots are longer but no runners besides on the one that is ACTUALLY thriving idk what root tans are unless they're the things that the plants have on at first, the bit of wrap and a rubberband? where could I get, root tabs, what do they do, and thanks for helping.
Root tabs are blocks of nutrients you put into the substrate for the plants to use. With high lighting you should probably be using co2 and a lot more different types of liquid ferts.
 
FishTankFanatic
  • #25
What is your actual light name and brand? What substrate?

Seachem flourish is not meant to be dosed every day, the bottle says once a week. It's also not a great fertilizer when used alone, because it contains very little nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, which plants use the most after carbon.
 

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Shrimp42
  • #26
Excel does not give your plants nutrients, its only a carbon source. That's why your plants aren't growing. Flourish is a whole other fertilizer.

You have seachem flourish and then seachem flourish Excel. Two different products
 
FishTankFanatic
  • #27
"Thereafter dose daily or every other day" that's why I've been doing my liquid fert daily I have sand substrate and a viva grow light

What could I use for the potassium nitrogen and phosphorus?
 

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Shrimp42
  • #28
As I said excel is not a liquid fertilizer, it's a carbon source. It will NOT provide nutrients to your plants.

I dont have much knowledge on high lighting tanks but you should be using a lot of different ferts for high light and you would be better off with co2 as well.
 
FishTankFanatic
  • #29
As I said excel is not a liquid fertilizer, it's a carbon source. It will NOT provide nutrients to your plants.
Sorry I'm lagging and this is my first fish tank so I need tips on which ferts to get and what I should and shouldn't do my plants have done alright so far but they could thrive more with more experienced people guiding me.
 
Dennis57
  • #30
I use Seachem flourish in a few of my tanks daily along with Niloc Thrive.

I would recommend also using Niloc Thrive in your tank.

What substrate are you using?
 
FishTankFanatic
  • #31
I use Seachem flourish in a few of my tanks daily along with Niloc Thrive.

I would recommend also using Niloc Thrive in your tank.

What substrate are you using?
Sand
 

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Sheena-Phx
  • #32
Viva grow lights are not considered "high light" lighting. Especially in a deeper tank such as that. You do not necessarily need to upgrade your lighting, but it wouldn't hurt. Your Dwarf Sag will still grow, but more slowly. The deeper the tank, the more light that you need. I have found the Viva Grow brand to work well on shorter tanks 12 inches and under, but deeper than that and carpeting plants(which need the most light) will be affected. As people have mentioned before, you need a more rounded easy to use all in one liquid fertilizer, and some root tabs.

Top of the line fertilizer would be NilocG Thrive, as it has the most comprehensive list of macro and micro nutrients on the market. The next best would be Co-Op Easy Green. Both are dosed weekly in low tech tanks(No injected Co2). You also do not need Co2 for this plant to thrive. I have Dwarf Sag in most of my tanks, big and small, and no liquid or injected Co2 anywhere. Also as mentioned above, Flourish is not a good source of nutrients for plants. You have to combine many other Seachem fertilizer products, which leads to more money. This is why it's easier to just get a good all in one, so you don't have to worry about what to dose. Keeps things simple and affordable.

The trick is going to be the liquid all in one fertilizer discussed above, root tabs, and lighting.

Root tabs can be purchased at LFS or online. Or you can make them yourself for cheaper. It just depends on which route you want to go. But I would do some research on the subject first, as you don't want to put too many in the sand. Your sand is also "inert" meaning that it has no nutrients to give to the plants. Dwarf Sag is a heavy root feeder and gets most of its nutrients from its roots, under the substrate. So root tabs would be very beneficial.

I make my own, and they are called DIY Osmocote Root Tabs. You use houseplant fertilizer(Osmocote Plus) and put them in empty gelatin capsules (size 00). They have about a 6 inch reach when placed under the substrate, so keep that in mind with any root tabs. You can focus them around the heavy root feeders, or space them evenly throughout the tank using the 6 inch rule. Very easy to do. They last for 3-4 months, so replacing every 3 months is recommended.
 
Dennis57
  • #33
What could I use for the potassium nitrogen and phosphorus?
Pick up a bottle of Niloc Thrive
 

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