Dutch Style Aquarium... How To Fertilize?

Hey all! So I’ve been thinking of how I’d want my new 44 gallon to look like and came across some beautiful Dutch styled aquariums that I’d like to try and create. However, I’m a bit confused of the longevity of using tab fertilizers once everything has been planted.

I have seen people use premium aquarium soil like ada and use Osmocote before planting but how long does that last until nutrients have dissolved and the soil/fert is useless (if at all)?

I’m planning on carpeting and using co2 (still new to that as it will be my first time... I’ll be experimenting with my smaller tank first before moving on to more extensive and advanced planting in the 44 gal). I’d like to start the carpeting process in my smaller tank then possibly move that over to the bigger tank... if that’s even possible. I have NilocG Thrive C that I’d like to use in the new tank just to finish the bottle before I make the switch to regular thrive.

When my 44 gal is complete, I’d like to keep it set up for at least a couple of years but root fertilizing sounds like it would be a problem since it will be densely planted with carpeting.

Any advice on how to go about fertilizing Dutch style aquariums with carpeting? Is there any specific fertilizers you’d suggest to keep plants (column and root feeders) healthy? How would you fertilizer root feeders in such a densely compacted aquarium like this?

I’d appreciate all the advice. Thanks so much in advance!

 

Most aquascapers use aquasoil, which makes root tabs pretty redundant.

Soil depletion is a common warning, though I'm skeptical about the extent. Aquasoils should have a high cation exchange capacity, meaning they'll always pull nutrients from the water, store them, and provide them to roots. Tom Barr, who developed the Estimative Dosing Index, said at a talk that ADA Amazonia will deplete in ammonia in a couple years but the other nutrients will last for many many more even if the soil breaks down. He replaces his soil after the ammonia is gone because the ammonia has huge benefit.

Also, plant heavily aquariums like Dutch aquascapes tend to go the EI route. Tom Barr has a site that is focused around fertilizer and plant keeping.


EI deliberately overdoses fertilizer to prevent even the possibility of nutrient deficiency. Usually people use dry ferts, they are much much cheaper and you have the freedom to customize your formulas.

 

Most aquascapers use aquasoil, which makes root tabs pretty redundant.

Soil depletion is a common warning, though I'm skeptical about the extent. Aquasoils should have a high cation exchange capacity, meaning they'll always pull nutrients from the water, store them, and provide them to roots. Tom Barr, who developed the Estimative Dosing Index, said at a talk that ADA Amazonia will deplete in ammonia in a couple years but the other nutrients will last for many many more even if the soil breaks down. He replaces his soil after the ammonia is gone because the ammonia has huge benefit.

Also, plant heavily aquariums like Dutch aquascapes tend to go the EI route. Tom Barr has a site that is focused around fertilizer and plant keeping.


EI deliberately overdoses fertilizer to prevent even the possibility of nutrient deficiency. Usually people use dry ferts, they are much much cheaper and you have the freedom to customize your formulas.

Thanks for that link! I’m just wondering since ammonia is a huge factor, wouldn’t a school of fish (let’s say stocking a 44 gal) be enough ammonia to take over ammonia depletion? I know that fish waste will provide some type of fertilization but I know it won’t be enough... I think I just answered my own question pertaining to ammonia. Lol

How would one know when ammonia is depleted from the soil though? Since beneficial bacteria convert it anyway... I don’t see how I’d be able to figure that out when it comes time to replacing ammonia depleted soil. It sounds like such a task to rip up carpeting and all the plants just to add new soil. I guess this is why people change their scape every so often. However, I’m willing to put in the work because 1) I enjoy it 2) I love to watch my creations grow 3) it’s a good stress reliever for me. Hard work pays off... eventually.

I overdose ferts now since thrive is based on EI Dosing. As long as I don’t have to mix ferts myself and can continue to use thrive, I think I’ll be ok... right? If not what else could I add in conjunction with thrive?

My most confusion with this is the root feeding plants because I see so many youtube aquascapers use lava rock, soil, Osmocote, powders, and established soil mixes and other stuff all combined to plant with. It’s like 5 or 6 layers of things before planting even begins. It confuses me because I’m not sure if all that is even going to last over the years and if it’s even necessary. I was hoping that a good premium quality soil will work just as well without all that added stuff.

My only fear is that I don’t want to set up a beautiful looking tank just to have plants die and waste a ton of money because I didn’t get it right the first time around. It’s also why I want to experiment with my small tank first... at least with carpeting... to see if I can even grow/maintain it for a long while before I even think about doing something major in a 44 gal.

 

Thanks for that link! I’m just wondering since ammonia is a huge factor, wouldn’t a school of fish (let’s say stocking a 44 gal) be enough ammonia to take over ammonia depletion? I know that fish waste will provide some type of fertilization but I know it won’t be enough... I think I just answered my own question pertaining to ammonia. Lol

How would one know when ammonia is depleted from the soil though? Since beneficial bacteria convert it anyway... I don’t see how I’d be able to figure that out when it comes time to replacing ammonia depleted soil. It sounds like such a task to rip up carpeting and all the plants just to add new soil. I guess this is why people change their scape every so often. However, I’m willing to put in the work because 1) I enjoy it 2) I love to watch my creations grow 3) it’s a good stress reliever for me. Hard work pays off... eventually.

I overdose ferts now since thrive is based on EI Dosing. As long as I don’t have to mix ferts myself and can continue to use thrive, I think I’ll be ok... right? If not what else could I add in conjunction with thrive?

My most confusion with this is the root feeding plants because I see so many youtube aquascapers use lava rock, soil, Osmocote, powders, and established soil mixes and other stuff all combined to plant with. It’s like 5 or 6 layers of things before planting even begins. It confuses me because I’m not sure if all that is even going to last over the years and if it’s even necessary. I was hoping that a good premium quality soil will work just as well without all that added stuff.

My only fear is that I don’t want to set up a beautiful looking tank just to have plants die and waste a ton of money because I didn’t get it right the first time around. It’s also why I want to experiment with my small tank first... at least with carpeting... to see if I can even grow/maintain it for a long while before I even think about doing something major in a 44 gal.

I think plant growth may start to decline when ammonia runs out. Otherwise to be safe it's probably a change every 2 years.

Thrive is good for general use, but you can't modify the ratios the nutrients are in to suit your tank. Also it's low on calcium and magnesium which is an issue if you have soft water, and then you'd be buying dry ferts in the form of GH booster anyways.

Some of the most stunning parts of Dutch tanks are the reds, which are very hard to maintain. More precise control over individual nutrients, along with high light and CO2, will make it easier to get the most out of your plants. This is a good article with pictures of Dutch influenced tanks:


Youtube aquascapers are usually professionals or sponsored, so they can afford/have access to all those substrate supplements. Except osmocote, I don't think I've ever seen a professional use it. Lava rock is used to increase porousness and save money on aquasoil. I think the powders' main job is to establish bacteria faster. There are many many types of bacteria that work with plants to increase nutrient uptake, and not all of them are the filter type bacteria. You don't really need them.

The worry about spending a lot and failing is totally valid. Try CO2 + carpet first, then build up your skills with light control, ferts, and maintenance, which is often overlooked. Having some nicer equipment will make your learning faster and easier though

 

I think plant growth may start to decline when ammonia runs out. Otherwise to be safe it's probably a change every 2 years.

Thrive is good for general use, but you can't modify the ratios the nutrients are in to suit your tank. Also it's low on calcium and magnesium which is an issue if you have soft water, and then you'd be buying dry ferts in the form of GH booster anyways.

Some of the most stunning parts of Dutch tanks are the reds, which are very hard to maintain. More precise control over individual nutrients, along with high light and CO2, will make it easier to get the most out of your plants. This is a good article with pictures of Dutch influenced tanks:


Youtube aquascapers are usually professionals or sponsored, so they can afford/have access to all those substrate supplements. Except osmocote, I don't think I've ever seen a professional use it. Lava rock is used to increase porousness and save money on aquasoil. I think the powders' main job is to establish bacteria faster. There are many many types of bacteria that work with plants to increase nutrient uptake, and not all of them are the filter type bacteria. You don't really need them.

The worry about spending a lot and failing is totally valid. Try CO2 + carpet first, then build up your skills with light control, ferts, and maintenance, which is often overlooked. Having some nicer equipment will make your learning faster and easier though

The red plants are what I want to achieve! A two year mark for soil replacing is good enough for me as I’ll probably get sick of looking at the same thing for too long anyway so I have no problem doing that. I can grow simple plants... buce, Anubias, ferns, swords as they aren’t demanding but I have something big and wonderful in mind and I want to make it happen. I’m sure I will have some failures and dying plants here and there but I’d like to keep that as minimal as I possibly can so getting all the info I can right now and becoming more educated on the topic will help me tremendously. I could just hire someone to do it for me but there’s no fun in that lol. I’d rather learn and do it myself... however...

It’s the ferts now that I’ll have to worry about since it’s become obvious that a macro/micro all in one won’t be efficient enough I suppose.

Some of the videos I see are from amateurs and some are from the pros... I think I’ve come across two pros that have used osmocote. They layered lava, soil, Osmocote and soil again. It’s pretty interesting on how everyone does things differently to suit their needs. It’s apparent that they plan ahead on what to use when they already have the types of plants in mind as each plant can require something different if that makes sense.

I use spring water now for my smaller tank (over dosing on thrive c to compensate for some) but will use tap once I get the 44 up and running. My issue is that straight up tap has a ph of 8.0-8.2, GH 8, KH 5 but if I let it gas out for 48 hours, it goes down to ph 7.6, GH 8 and KH 4 (that’s with a 1 gallon test I did a while back). Not sure how I’m going to gas out 11 gallons every week since I’d prefer to use a python to do water changes (siphon out and fill back in) for that big of a change.

I have a lot of challenges and obstacles ahead of me but I’m willing to make it work... my only downfall is patience... however, I’ve quickly learned that without patience in this hobby, it can turn into a disaster quickly especially when making erratic and non thought out decisions.

Thanks for the all the info... now I have to do way more research on plants/soil and what each plant requires (the ones I want to add to my scape) to make this as easy as possible for me because the less plant die-off, the better off I’ll be so I don’t become a total failure lol.

 

just wanna chime in that I know a local that has a gorgeous dutch-style aquarium using just black diamond blasting sand. i'm not sure what ferts he uses (probably dry) but he does use co2 and high light. he advises not to spend the extra money on "planted substrate." so if you wanna go cheap on the substrate, it's definitely doable.

edit: I found a thread on reddit where he goes into detail about his fert regimen + other things. apparently he's been experimenting with ferts. you can always make a reddit account and message him about his setups, he's very willing to talk about them and educate people. someday I'll go see his tanks in person lol, he's invited me over before and holds meetings at his house for our local aquatic plant group. he might have an instagram too, idk

 

just wanna chime in that I know a local that has a gorgeous dutch-style aquarium using just black diamond blasting sand. i'm not sure what ferts he uses (probably dry) but he does use co2 and high light. he advises not to spend the extra money on "planted substrate." so if you wanna go cheap on the substrate, it's definitely doable.

edit: I found a thread on reddit where he goes into detail about his fert regimen + other things. apparently he's been experimenting with ferts. you can always make a reddit account and message him about his setups, he's very willing to talk about them and educate people. someday I'll go see his tanks in person lol, he's invited me over before and holds meetings at his house for our local aquatic plant group. he might have an instagram too, idk

Awesome info. Thanks so much for that!!! I’ll definitely check that link out and see if I can get a message going to get some info/help from him... pick his brain a little lol.

I’d like to save some $$$ somewhere so I can spend it on other things like a lot of gorgeous looking plants . If I can get a carpet going and not kill any red plants, then I think I’ll be on the right track... I just need to know what I’m doing first and the best way to go about it without ruining everything in the process (ruining things are much easier to do in this hobby lol... thankfully I haven’t ruined much nor killed anything lol).

 

If you do EI Dosing as -Mak- mentioned and you have a decent light, red plants will be easy peasy. Red plants are only "demanding" in that they want more light. They're actually quite easy especially if you go with plants like Ludwigia rubin, rotala H'ra, ludwigia minI super red, myrio red, etc.

Definitely go the dry fert route. NilocG carries cheap dry ferts (it's what I use) and they also have a dosing chart as well that is very helpful. Do not use Thrive on a hightech tank. Sooner or later, I can almost guarantee deficiencies due to Thrive being a set ratio of nutrients. Each tank is different and adding CO2 and high light only amplifies those differences. I'd say it is almost necessary to get dry ferts so that you can customize your fertilization to your particular water. Of course, the customization won't come in a day. I'd recommend following the NilocG dosing chart until after two months. If you notice any deficiencies after two months, then it's time to start modifying your dosing regimen.

ADA Aquasoil or fancy substrate is not necessary. I use just normal play sand or pool filter sand just fine. With fast growing stems, water column nutrients are far more beneficial than a nutrient rich substrate.

midnaThe person you linked is great! I recently got a shipment of plants from them yesterday.

 

I overdose ferts now since thrive is based on EI Dosing. As long as I don’t have to mix ferts myself and can continue to use thrive, I think I’ll be ok... right? If not what else could I add in conjunction with thrive?

Don't be afraid of DIY dry ferts or solutions. There are good calculators like rotalabutterfly.com to help all of us. As you are in the US all chemicals should be easily available at low cost. The main benefits are 100% control of the mix and the lowest cost. Happy to share my calculation spreadsheet if you want to go down that route.

 

If you do EI Dosing as -Mak- mentioned and you have a decent light, red plants will be easy peasy. Red plants are only "demanding" in that they want more light. They're actually quite easy especially if you go with plants like Ludwigia rubin, rotala H'ra, ludwigia minI super red, myrio red, etc.

Definitely go the dry fert route. NilocG carries cheap dry ferts (it's what I use) and they also have a dosing chart as well that is very helpful. Do not use Thrive on a hightech tank. Sooner or later, I can almost guarantee deficiencies due to Thrive being a set ratio of nutrients. Each tank is different and adding CO2 and high light only amplifies those differences. I'd say it is almost necessary to get dry ferts so that you can customize your fertilization to your particular water. Of course, the customization won't come in a day. I'd recommend following the NilocG dosing chart until after two months. If you notice any deficiencies after two months, then it's time to start modifying your dosing regimen.

ADA Aquasoil or fancy substrate is not necessary. I use just normal play sand or pool filter sand just fine. With fast growing stems, water column nutrients are far more beneficial than a nutrient rich substrate.

midnaThe person you linked is great! I recently got a shipment of plants from them yesterday.

Awesome! That’s what I wanted to hear lol thanks! I’m using a Fluval aquasky light now on its lowest setting but I will have to purchase a new light as the one I have is too small in length for a 36” tank. It’s something I’m looking into as far as what the best choice is for the plants I want to use.

Ah good old sand... I have a love/hate relationship with sand. I have caribsea moonlight sand in my small tank now but want to get rid of it and start a carpet as soon as I get my co2 regulator in. I want to be successful with that first and foremost before moving on to a bigger tank. My only concern is moving the carpet to the new tank... how would I go about doing that if I’m using sand that you suggested? Do I need to replant it all over again instead of laying it as a mat on top of new sand? Also, is there a specific carpet plant I should get to start with? From what I’m gathering, I won’t be able to use thrive c when I start a carpet, correct? Keep in mind that this will be a first for me to try and carpet and use co2 so an easy plant would be good lol. I’d like to start with a small tank, figure it all out and be successful with at least a carpet before moving on to something bigger.

I saw a guy on YouTube use NilocG dry ferts... he mixed them with water in the jugs it came with, then used a pump and a timer to automatically dose it. It was like a set it and forget it type of thing. When I start dosing, I would like to do something like that as well. But I need to remind myself to take it one step at a time lol.

Thanks for the plant suggestions, I’ll definitely be looking into those.

Sorry for all the questions. I’m just trying to learn it all before I start spending money and having it go down the drain because I didn’t do things the way I should have in the first place.

Don't be afraid of DIY dry ferts or solutions. There are good calculators like rotalabutterfly.com to help all of us. As you are in the US all chemicals should be easily available at low cost. The main benefits are 100% control of the mix and the lowest cost. Happy to share my calculation spreadsheet if you want to go down that route.

Yes!!! I would love it if you could share!!! That would be so wonderful. Thank you so much!

 

I can't attached the spreadsheet as the file format is not allowed, so here is a public link to my Sugarsync cloud account where you can download it:

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D6278186_07662746_7026158

I have checked all calculations against rotalabutterfly.com so should be accurate, but usage at your own risk. It is still WIP so one thing it doesn't do (yet) is checking for solubility, i.e. are you adding more chemicals to a certain amount of water than can be dissolved. When I do changes to container & dosing sizes I always check the most critical ones on rotalabutterfly.com to make sure I haven't violated the chemical rules. The ones with "low'ish" solubility are Calcium sulfate (hence dry dose) and Potassium sulfate.

The spreadsheet is depending on you using the exact same chemicals, otherwise the Molecular weights need to be changed. Example: Must be MgSO4.7H2O and not MgSO4.H2O.

There is also a sheet where you can see what I paid for the chemicals here in Bangkok. Before I started DIY fertilizer I paid USD 1.25 per doze and didn't get all the trace elements, not could I decide the content of the solution. Now I pay USD 0.25 per doze and there not much work in it when you have collected all the chemicals, containers and a decimal grams scale. Up front investment in the scale (0.01 - 500g model) & glass bottles (3 X 2500ml, 2 X 100 ml) in my case was USD 90. All the chemicals of which many (all trace elements..) will last me a lifetime were USD 50 including domestic shipping. Most likely you can get smaller quantities and hence bring it down significantly.

 

I can't attached the spreadsheet as the file format is not allowed, so here is a public link to my Sugarsync cloud account where you can download it:

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D6278186_07662746_7026158

I have checked all calculations against rotalabutterfly.com so should be accurate, but usage at your own risk. It is still WIP so one thing it doesn't do (yet) is checking for solubility, i.e. are you adding more chemicals to a certain amount of water than can be dissolved. When I do changes to container & dosing sizes I always check the most critical ones on rotalabutterfly.com to make sure I haven't violated the chemical rules. The ones with "low'ish" solubility are Calcium sulfate (hence dry dose) and Potassium sulfate.

The spreadsheet is depending on you using the exact same chemicals, otherwise the Molecular weights need to be changed. Example: Must be MgSO4.7H2O and not MgSO4.H2O.

There is also a sheet where you can see what I paid for the chemicals here in Bangkok. Before I started DIY fertilizer I paid USD 1.25 per doze and didn't get all the trace elements, not could I decide the content of the solution. Now I pay USD 0.25 per doze and there not much work in it when you have collected all the chemicals, containers and a decimal grams scale. Up front investment in the scale (0.01 - 500g model) & glass bottles (3 X 2500ml, 2 X 100 ml) in my case was USD 90. All the chemicals of which many (all trace elements..) will last me a lifetime were USD 50 including domestic shipping. Most likely you can get smaller quantities and hence bring it down significantly.

You are awesome! Thank you so much for this! It is a great guide to get me started on the right track and adjust it accordingly to my tank volume/needs. I just printed it out along with this thread. May I message you if I need more help later on?

 

May I message you if I need more help later on?

Of course. Most importantly are the use of the exact same chemicals and also working Liter & Milliliters and not Gallons & Quarts(?). Rotalabutterfly can do tank sizes in Gallons if you want to verify your calculation, but container size and doze size are in ml.

 

Of course. Most importantly are the use of the exact same chemicals and also working Liter & Milliliters and not Gallons & Quarts(?). Rotalabutterfly can do tank sizes in Gallons if you want to verify your calculation, but container size and doze size are in ml.

Thank you! Yes I dose in mL now so that shouldn’t be a problem. I’m going to purchase everything I need when I get the plants. Keep an eye out for messages just in case I need to pick your brain lol thanks again! I appreciate your help.

 

I appreciate your help.

That's what the forum is for, but of course it always helps to be called "awesome"

Buy as little quantity as possible of all the trace elements. As you can see from the spreadsheet they are needed in quantities < 1 gallon even for my 1500 Liters of water and 10 doses per solution mix. Good luck and I will keep an eye out for any messages.

Just thought it....you may be able to call your local tap water supplier and get an analysis sheet for your tap water. You might find that some of the trace elements as well as GH/KH boosters are there in more than sufficient quantities already?

 

Just thought it....you may be able to call your local tap water supplier and get an analysis sheet for your tap water. You might find that some of the trace elements as well as GH/KH boosters are there in more than sufficient quantities already?

Thanks for the info. I’ve looked up the analysis sheet for my area and it hasn’t been updated since 2017 so I’ll call them tomorrow and ask about it.

Here’s the link to the 2017 report I’ve found
https://www.ladwp.com/cs/idcplg?Idc...653011&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased