Dsm - Dry Start Method

Thanks. There is plastic wrap on top. Some videos I watched on YouTube showed people doing it.

 

Update pictures, day 10 of hairgrass.

 

Silister Trench
What do you think? Two new rocks.








Got some better pics of the tank.

 

I like the way they're standing out more now. Before it it was almost too subtle. Nice!

 

Thanks. The rock on the left is at the same angle as the one next to it, just the underside of the big one is slanted.

 

I have good news and some bad. For the bad news, another of my Otos is scratched. I know why. They get scared easily and dart around, and the probably hurt themselves on some some or gravel. The good news is that I have finished my diy light. Coming in at 120 cfl watts and 520 incandescent watts! 6500 k bulbs. 6 bulbs in total, four 23 watt cfl's and two 13 watt cfl's. it is diy down to the bone. If you want I can share how I did it.

 

I'm confused why you say you have 520 incandescent watts yet you list only CFLs for the bulbs.

 

The oto passed a few minutes ago. You will be missed. All of these accidents make me lose hope in keeping otos. I will still attempt them in my new tank, But will be extra careful.

I meant to say that it is equivalent to 520 watts on incandescent.

 

Ah okay. Incandescents are terrible any way though haha.

I'm sorry for your loss Otos are very sensitive after shipping, so it's not necessarily anything you've done wrong.

 

Yeah, but it has been almost two months. I am selling all my shrimp to a local pet store and then the tank will become a quarantine while the dsm goes submersed and then cycles.

 

Swapped the places of my 20L dsm and 10 gallon. One thing off the list. I have a store that is willing to exchange my shrimp for 20 ember tetras, which will go into my 10 whilst the 20 goes submersed and then cycles.





Silister Trench how's it looking?

Otos might have issues with the light. Presumably they are wild, so the abundance of light might be hard on their eyes.

Found out my co2 regulator detached from the bottle, so...

For some reason it posted 4.

 

So I finally got my ember tetras. I asked for 20, received "19" and counted 18. One is pretty thin. You know, for a lps, they had some nice fish. Arrowana, discus, dwarf puffers and otocinclus. My LFS isn't that diverse.
Pics later.

 

Another one. Why does this keep happening?

 

When was the last time you checked your water parameters?

 

4 days ago and it was better than ever.

 

Can you list them specifically? Today would be best, if you can do it again, since it just died.

 

First, it is still alive. Second, some people left out a 30 gallon tank, aquaclear 70, around 150 dollars in medications, freshwater master test kit and cleaning supplies on the curb near our house. Score!

 

Ahh, I thought the picture was of a dead one

 

I would have too.

 

And the fact that you said "Another one. Why does this keep happening?". I thought you meant another one dead.

 

Well, he's dead now.


Also an ember tetra died.

 

Oh no! Looks like my tank has a case of the runners! They finally sprouted, and it only took what, 36 days? Better late than never.
I am slightly concerned about the state of the s repens. Is it a nutrient deficiency? Or are the lights too strong? Pale green to white to burnt edges.

 

What are you dosing? Injected co2?
Could be iron, co2... also I've found that my staurogene really appreciates root tabs...find them to be more of a root feeder then column...

 

It's a dry start so all the nutrients that they get are from the soil. It is a nutrient rich sand. They water I spray has fluval trace in it.

 

I know, but looking at the growth it doesn't make sense for a dirted tank, so grasping at straws. My best guess would be co2/iron.
Maybe Silister Trench or -Mak- or Dolfan can shed some more light on the issue???

 

How do you make the sand nutrient rich?

 

It's a dry start so all the nutrients that they get are from the soil. It is a nutrient rich sand. They water I spray has fluval trace in it.

Fluval trace does not make the sand nutrients rich, only trace elements rich. Are you doing macro and micro nutrients too? As in Nitrogen potassium, phosphate for the macros?

Are you using ADA Aquasoil or dirt or something under the sand? Not clear, you say you are using soil but then it's sand. Is it soil with sand cap?

 

It's flourite premium black sand. It's a plant sand. I have fluval trace. All the co2 they get is from the air.
For the soil and sand part, I should've said substrate.

 

It's flourite premium black sand. It's a plant sand. I have fluval trace. All the co2 they get is from the air.
For the soil and sand part, I should've said substrate.

Flourite has no macros which are needed more than trace, you probably need to get some macros.

 

Could you advise me about any products that are good. The hairgrass and ar minI are doing great in this substrate so I dunno what's up with the repens.

 

Could you advise me about any products that are good. The hairgrass and ar minI are doing great in this substrate so I dunno what's up with the repens.

I couldn't say for certain what your deficiency is, but probably phosphate or temperature. Like others said Seachem Flourite Black Sand isn't what we'd call a complete substrate like ADA aquasoil is or what using planting soil with a sand cap would be. The way most of the Seachem planted substrates work is they contain micro nutrients, but lack some of the macros which should be compensated for in a tank that's submerged with fish - through feedings and waste.

Since this is a DSM go with one of those bags of osmocote plus root tabs you can find on eBay for cheap and insert 1 every 6 inches or so. These root tabs will give you everything you need and revitalize the current substrate of micro nutrients as well.

Ideally, I would have broke about 6 capsules open and dumped osmocote on the bottom with micro nutrient powder as a base layer and then poured substrate over this, but... Should be problem solved in a few weeks if it's nutrient and not a temperature or other.

 

I couldn't say for certain what your deficiency is, but probably phosphate or temperature. Like others said Seachem Flourite Black Sand isn't what we'd call a complete substrate like ADA aquasoil is or what using planting soil with a sand cap would be. The way most of the Seachem planted substrates work is they contain micro nutrients, but lack some of the macros which should be compensated for in a tank that's submerged with fish - through feedings and waste.

Since this is a DSM go with one of those bags of osmocote plus root tabs you can find on eBay for cheap and insert 1 every 6 inches or so. These root tabs will give you everything you need and revitalize the current substrate of micro nutrients as well.

Ideally, I would have broke about 6 capsules open and dumped osmocote on the bottom with micro nutrient powder as a base layer and then poured substrate over this, but... Should be problem solved in a few weeks if it's nutrient and not a temperature or other.

Off topic but can I buy osmocote plus from a garden store and put it on the bottom of my tank underneath the sand? Is that safe and how much

 

I couldn't say for certain what your deficiency is, but probably phosphate or temperature. Like others said Seachem Flourite Black Sand isn't what we'd call a complete substrate like ADA aquasoil is or what using planting soil with a sand cap would be. The way most of the Seachem planted substrates work is they contain micro nutrients, but lack some of the macros which should be compensated for in a tank that's submerged with fish - through feedings and waste.

Since this is a DSM go with one of those bags of osmocote plus root tabs you can find on eBay for cheap and insert 1 every 6 inches or so. These root tabs will give you everything you need and revitalize the current substrate of micro nutrients as well.

Ideally, I would have broke about 6 capsules open and dumped osmocote on the bottom with micro nutrient powder as a base layer and then poured substrate over this, but... Should be problem solved in a few weeks if it's nutrient and not a temperature or other.

So you're telling me that if it is a macro nutrient deficiency, it will be fixed when I fill it up and put fish in? The waste that they produce are the macros? Or turn into macros? I might give the osmocote root tabs a try, but I was thinking of filling it up in a week anyway.





If you want I can do close ups of the repens.

 

I'm super confused... didn't you flood the tank??? You have pictures with the dead oto????
(I thought the water looked way to clear!!!! lol)

In that case I would also agree macro, (possibly even some light burn as you had suggested as well, emersed growth definitely possible) you can really coat the bottom anymore, I would add the tabs like Sil recommended into the substrate.

 

I'm super confused... didn't you flood the tank??? You have pictures with the dead oto????
(I thought the water looked way to clear!!!! lol)

In that case I would also agree macro, (possibly even some light burn as you had suggested as well, emersed growth definitely possible) you can really coat the bottom anymore, I would add the tabs like Sil recommended into the substrate.

Sorry about the confusion. I have two tanks. A ten gallon and a 20. The 20 is the dry start and the 10 was my first planted tank. The ten is full of water and has the otos and ember tetras for holding while I wait for the plants to grow in the big one which is where the otos and ember tetras will go. Then the ten is going bye-bye.

 

Iron deficiency looks as transparent leaves and new, anorexic looking leaves. Nitrogen deficiency looks as yellowing of old leaves, and potassium deficiencies usually look like holes. You can cover both nitrogen and potassium with potassium nitrate. A dry kilogram of it costs 40-70 Mexican pesos = 2-3.5 bucks. You can use rotalabutterfly.com to personalize your dosing. After fish are moved into the tank the plants should get all the nitrogen from the fish waste, as their 3 forms have nitrogen in them, even then, if the plants consume all the nitrogen compounds in your water column and the fish can't keep up with it then you can dose KNO3 (potassium nitrate).
If you don't have problems with low nitrates once your fish are in then I would go with potassium sulfate for dosing potassium. Again, same with nitrate potassium, it is pretty **** cheap in its dry form and you can use rotalabutterfly so you know how to disolve it in water and how much to add to reach a certain concentration.
As for Iron, that gets more complex, as there are 2 different forms of Iron plants can use, and the effectivity of each one depends on your Ph. You can probably save money buying it dry, but if you can I would personally use something like Seachem Iron. Not a big fan of liquid ferts because I'm homeless, but I haven't been able to find dry ferts where I live, and it looks like a whole mess to me.
Since you are on a dry start tho, I don't know how you would go about dosing them. It looks like you have some water in there covering the substrate, I don't know if throwing the ferts there would do the trick, probably it would but I am not sure.

 

Iron deficiency looks as transparent leaves and new, anorexic looking leaves. Nitrogen deficiency looks as yellowing of old leaves, and potassium deficiencies usually look like holes. You can cover both nitrogen and potassium with potassium nitrate. A dry kilogram of it costs 40-70 Mexican pesos = 2-3.5 bucks. You can use rotalabutterfly.com to personalize your dosing. After fish are moved into the tank the plants should get all the nitrogen from the fish waste, as their 3 forms have nitrogen in them, even then, if the plants consume all the nitrogen compounds in your water column and the fish can't keep up with it then you can dose KNO3 (potassium nitrate).
If you don't have problems with low nitrates once your fish are in then I would go with potassium sulfate for dosing potassium. Again, same with nitrate potassium, it is pretty cheap in its dry form and you can use rotalabutterfly so you know how to disolve it in water and how much to add to reach a certain concentration.
As for Iron, that gets more complex, as there are 2 different forms of Iron plants can use, and the effectivity of each one depends on your Ph. You can probably save money buying it dry, but if you can I would personally use something like Seachem Iron. Not a big fan of liquid ferts because I'm homeless, but I haven't been able to find dry ferts where I live, and it looks like a whole mess to me.
Since you are on a dry start tho, I don't know how you would go about dosing them. It looks like you have some water in there covering the substrate, I don't know if throwing the ferts there would do the trick, probably it would but I am not sure.

If I got some root tabs, would that do the same thing? I live in Canada so it is not always easy to get the same things other people suggest. It would be easiest to buy liquid ferts but I will search for dry ferts.
What do you mean by homeless?

 

Update. Ember tetras are doing great, except their eyes look a bit stuck out, not pop eye stuck out, just stuck out. No sign of the otocinclus. Plants are doing ok and seem better, even though I did not add macros.

Oh, I forgot to say. I have been breaking off sharp bits of stone from my rocks, just to make it safer. I assume this won't affect the water.

Found this on rock.

Did not put it there.

 

Those little bits of moss looking things? Sorry if I missed it somewhere, I haven't been closely following, but are those rocks wild collected?

 

No, they are from the pet store. Plus all were scrubbed with hot water and a stiff brush when I got then home.