Dry Plant Ferts Question

Not sure where to post this threat, so feel free to move it.

Just this week, I switched from the Flourish plant fert line to dry ferts. And, I'm not sure what I should do with my current situation. And, need your advice.......

On Sunday, I started with the following dosing in my 90G tank:

Day 1 - Dose on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday (2 doses so far)
*1 tsp KNO3
*3/8 tsp K2SO4
*1/8 tsp KH2PO4 - only dosed once as my tank has high PO4

Day 2 - Dose on Monday, Wednesday, Friday (2 doses so far)
*1 1/2 tsp MgSO4
*3/8 tsp CSM-B
- I'm adding magnesium as I've noticed many tiny, pin holes and light brown circles (not diatoms) that turn into pin holes on many of the crypt leaves. I have bronze, red and a tall/stocky green variety.

On last Sunday, my water parameters were:
6.6 pH
0 NH3
0 NO2
10 NO3
6 kH
4 gH
15 PO4
temp 78*F

I also had a fish die on Saturday before switching to the dry ferts, so having nitrates was explained. This tank normally ran at 0-5 NO3, usually 0.

Last night, I noticed that many of the fish were at the surface gulping down air. So, I added 2 air lines to oxygenate the water. And, the air lines have been running constantly, gassing off my CO2.

Tonight, I again noticed the fish were gulping down air at the water surface. So, I decided to retest. Tonight, here's my results:

7.0 pH - up
0 NH3
0 NO2
40 NO3
5.5 kH - slightly down
4 gH
15 PO4

What is going on? I doubt the dead fish has added this much NO3 to my tank, but how could just two 1 tsp doses of KNO3 raise it that much??

What should I do? I could do a small water change tonight or skip the KNO3 dose tomorrow, but not sure which would be better. As my CO2 is being gassed off with the air stone, things are getting out of whack.

What would you do if you were facing this situation?

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

Good morning,

I have moved your thread to the Aquarium Plants section of the forum.

Thanks!

Ken

 

Hello Dena, are you doing a fifty percent water change each week? Your phosphate is way too high, as are your nitrates. What is your source for water and why are your phosphates naturally high? Is that from the tap? Also, your water seems to be unusually soft. At the previous reading for KH versus PH, your CO2 levels would have been at 45 mg/l which is also too high and could cause fish to gasp. And if plants are not photosynthesizing properly oxygen levels could be quite low. I would recommend that you use the fifty percent water change per week Estimative index method, dose according to the EI schedule, maintain your CO2 at 30 ppm's. You can use a CO2 indicator for that. I would recommend slowly changing water to initially get your phosphate levels down or using a phosphate sponge in the filter. Is the phosphate coming from treated tap water? Let me know?

 

I've only been doing the dry ferts for a total of 5 days now. And, plan on doing my normal weekly water change over the weekend, which is typically 40-50%.

PO4 is high because it is in my tap and I cannot afford RO system. My phosphates have always been high!! This is not an unusual level. In fact I've gotten much higher PO4 readings in the past. This is why I haven't dosed the PO4 component as I should have this week. I have a small CO2 indicator in my tank that has gone from being green to blue which further indicates that the surface agitation is gasing off the CO2.

I have used phosphate sponges, filter pads, even products like PhosBan to help remove PO4. But, have never been able to get it below 10PPM. As my tank has not been taken over by algae, I simply live with it knowing that the PO4 is adding to my water's buffering.

Because I have an unusual PO4 reading you cannot use the standard kH, pH charts to estimate my CO2 levels. The PO4 is another buffering component. And all the charts will indicate that they are inaccurate when in a high PO4 environment.

I use DIY CO2 with yeast and sugar mix because I cannot afford a CO2 injection system. I have a total of 6 2-liter containers and get 1-2 bubbles per second on the average. The CO2 is run through my canister filter to diffuse into the water and return to the tank.

My tap water has always been soft. Although my kH is normally in the 6-9 range, all summer it has been dropping to its current level. And, I suspect that it will go back up in the winter. Again, not unusual as this is not something that has developed over the past week. And my gH has always been 3-4. The gH has not changed in several years!

This morning I decided to not dose the KNO3, so my tank only got the K2SO4 component today. And, tonight, I've retested my water and got the following results:

7.0 pH
0 NH3
0 NO2
20-40 (in the middle somewhere) NO3
15 PO4
6 kH
4 gH
78.9 F temp

NO3 has gone down as expected without dosing it today, but everything is as expected with the surface agitation. I knew to expect a rise in NO3 with the angel dieing last weekend, but I did not expect the NO3 to keep raising.

One thing I've noticed is that my water is clearer than its been in months, so something must be going right.

 

I would not be worried about the No3 at this point. 20-40 is not a bad range when EI dosing. Anything less than 15-20 would be too LOW.
I might pull back the K2So4 a little, as you are getting some K (potassium) from the Kno3. I would go with 1/8 tsp to start.
You may not even need to dose Po4 since your phosphate is naturally high anyway. High Po4 won't harm plants or animals but might be an indicator of high total dissolved solids. (TDS)


Fish gasping at the surface would indicate a Co2 situation but if your drop checker was blue...not so much. (keep in mind it takes a drop checker a couple hours to change to the current reading) When you are looking at a drop checker the color you see reflects the level the checker was a couple hours prior. I also assume you are using a 4 dkh solution?

Other than the minor issues above your dosing looks on target for EI. EI also is based on a 50% water change...no less, no more. This keeps the ferts "non limiting" and resets the numbers each week. You can adjust things up or down if your plants are not using that much Kno3 lower the amount dosed but continue to dose 3 times a week. Stability stability stability.

 

Thanks Nate! I'm not used to seeing NO3 in this tank and was not expecting such a quick change! My angels are doing much better, but have probably no CO2 left with running the air lines for a couple of days. As I am off work tomorrow, I plan on turning off the air....and....keep a close eye on this tank.

I am using a 4DKH solution in the drop checker. I didn't realize it took a couple of hours to display the levels. That is good to know.

I will make sure I change 50% of the water this weekend and will reduce the amount of potassium as suggested. I've been very leary with dosing the PO4 component. In fact, when I ordered from Orlando, I opted not to purchase it...but due to a mix up in packaging, I received it instead of the CSM-B, which was shipped separately. Orlando did tell me how to calibrate my PO4 test kit. I need to pick up a jug of distilled water. He said that PO4 test kits are typically inaccurate in their readings. I am hoping that my test kit is inaccurate, and that my PO4 levels are where they should be.

I know my Iron levels are currently low, but am hoping that after a few weeks it will come up to where it should be as well.

 

Sounds good so far Dena. Do try and get the co2 back up as the plants won't uptake as many nutrients without it and you may begin to see an accumulation of them in the tank.
So you are dosing CSM+B right? This will give you Iron as well.
Have you taken before pics yet? You will be amazed at how fast the growth is once you get the details smoothed out with the dosing and Co2!

 

Yes, I have CSM-B and because some of my plants are showing what I think are signs of magnesium deficiency, I also am dosing MgSO4, at least for now.

I have taken plenty of pictures. And, in only a few days, the water is clearer than it has been in a very long time. I can actually see into the tank with the LED moonlights on, where it was very cloudy and blocked out much of the tank.

Although my plants are in recovery from the pneumonia I had last month, so are in much need of TLC. It may be wishful thinking, but my Amazon Swords appear to be improving and sending out new leaves. And the new plants are taking root.

I'll try to get pictures posted this weekend for the after neglect/before dry ferts dosing. I've changed the tank around and added more driftwood. Got tired of the flat appearance with everything being the same height.

 

Looking forward to the pics~!