Dry Fertiliser - E.i. Dosing - Will This Work?

Planning to try dry fertilisers (directly into aquarium), for E.I. Dosing

It's a 50 gallon Planted with CO2 injection.
Will this work (what should I change)?

50% Water Change, Saturday morning

KNO3 1/2 tsp (3x Weekly) Sat, Mon, Wed
KH2PO4 1/8 tsp (3x Weekly) Sat, Mon, Wed

Seachem Florish Comprehensive (SCFC) (until I can source some quality CSM+B with an EDTA base).

SCFC 12ml (3x Weekly) Sun, Tue, Thu.
Epsom Salts 2.5 tsp. Sun only.

Not planning on using K2SO4 - should I rethink this?

Leaning on those that have helped with plants previous ( SeattleRoy - Vishaquatics - -Mak- - kallililly1973 - fa4960 )

 

I think this is great. Definitely a great start to your fertilizer routine and I doubt you'll need to majorly change anything, except for the SCFC. Provided your CO2 is adequate in concentration and distribution, this should work just fine. I too add the dry ferts directly into the aquarium based on tsp amount and I do not use K2SO4. The K provided from KNO3 and KH2PO4 are sufficient.

I believe most CSM+B has an EDTA base. I get mine from NilocG. I also supplement my iron with 11% DTPA Fe

 

I think this is great. Definitely a great start to your fertilizer routine and I doubt you'll need to majorly change anything, except for the SCFC. Provided your CO2 is adequate in concentration and distribution, this should work just fine. I too add the dry ferts directly into the aquarium based on tsp amount and I do not use K2SO4. The K provided from KNO3 and KH2PO4 are sufficient.

I believe most CSM+B has an EDTA base. I get mine from NilocG. I also supplement my iron with 11% DTPA Fe

Thank you Vishaquatics - I'm looking to source the compounds locally here in Malaysia, to avoid the high cost of shipping from the US.

The only dry fert CSM+B I have found here is very low in Boron (0.24%) and does not state an EDTA content. That's why I think I'll stick with Florish Comprehensive until I can get a proper CSM+B.

I know that fa4960 - in Thailand is mixing his own CSM+B, but I think that's a bit beyond me at the moment.

 

Thank you Vishaquatics - I'm looking to source the compounds locally here in Malaysia, to avoid the high cost of shipping from the US.

The only dry fert CSM+B I have found here is very low in Boron (0.24%) and does not state an EDTA content. That's why I think I'll stick with Florish Comprehensive until I can get a proper CSM+B.

I know that fa4960 - in Thailand is mixing his own CSM+B, but I think that's a bit beyond me at the moment.

Ah yes, sorry about that. Forgot you were located in Malaysia. The shipping costs must be sky high then

 

Ah yes, sorry about that. Forgot you were located in Malaysia. The shipping costs must be sky high then

Yes shipping is often considerably more expensive than the product.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Nilocg on shipping, and will check with GLA as well, but a local supply of the same compounds is probably the way to go.

 

Sorry I haven’t yet just to dry dosing so I would t be much help good luck

 

I wouldn't be too worried about Boron in the local CSM + B you can get to be honest, unless you have a test of your tap water and the content is absolutely 0% I would be happy to add just a bit. I haven't even checked what Boron deficiency looks like so I really only add it to be on the safe side.

The only chelate I worry about is iron to be honest. Don't know what your PH is but I got some DTPA 7% iron first and now some 11%.

DTPA (not EDTA) Fe 11% 300g Pack Chelated Iron Aquaponics Hydroponics

Get this one and add it to whatever CSM + B you can get locally.

 

Thanks fa4960

I guess I'm concerned because I don't fully understand the chemistry, but I noticed that both GLA and Nilocg CSM+B state they have 64% EDTA.

The local CSM+B doesn't state any EDTA
100g Trace Elements / Plantex CSM+B / Plant-Prod Chelated - Micronutrient Mix

I've no idea what EDTA is or if it's essential - but it does appear to be missing?

If I did go with this CSM+B does Mix 4 look the best? (Ingredient list is towards the bottom of the page)

My PH is 7.4 reading 6.5 with CO2. Why? Will DTPA Fe 11% effect my PH?

 

You didn't answer my question about the PH in your tank, because this is the fact that determines what kind of chelate (iron especially) you need. The attachment below shows how little EDTA iron that is available for the plants if your PH is e.g. 7.5 = 2 - 3% and the rest is lost.


My PH is around 7.4 - 7.6 so EDTA chelated iron will do nothing for my plants....or at least I would have to dose much higher concentrations (maybe 3 - 5x) to get anything available for the plants.

Note that although you can buy EDDHA chelated iron it will tint your water for quite a while so not really recommended.

Have a read here to learn about iron chelates:

Chelated Iron In Aquariums - DTPA, EDTA or EDDHA

 

You didn't answer my question about the PH in your tank, because this is the fact that determines what kind of chelate (iron especially) you need. The attachment below shows how little EDTA iron that is available for the plants if your PH is e.g. 7.5 = 2 - 3% and the rest is lost.
View attachment 576072
My PH is around 7.4 - 7.6 so EDTA chelated iron will do nothing for my plants....or at least I would have to dose much higher concentrations (maybe 3 - 5x) to get anything available for the plants.

Note that although you can buy EDDHA chelated iron it will tint your water for quite a while so not really recommended.

Have a read here to learn about iron chelates:

Chelated Iron In Aquariums - DTPA, EDTA or EDDHA

Again fa4960 that's really helpful.

I can see how FeDTPA is much better than EDTA for my 7.4 PH tank.

I'll go ahead an order this.

 

A quick online shop and I've ordered:

200g CSM+B Plantex RM45 ($11 USD)

1KG KNO3 RM17 ($4.61 USD)

1KG KH2PO4 RM27 ($6.55 USD)

300g DTPA Fe 11% RM53 ($12.86)

Prices include shipping, so that's years worth of ferts for $35 USD delivered.

fa4960 - I'm planning to spoon dry ferts straight into the 50 Gallon tank as follows:

KNO3 = 1/2tsp (3xWeekly) Sat, Mon, Wed
KH2PO4 = 1/8tsp (3xWeekly) Sat, Mon, Wed

CSM+B = 1/8tsp (3xWeekly) Sun, Tues, Thu

How much DTPA Fe 11% should I add to each 100 gallon of CSM+B Plantex?

 

How much DTPA Fe 11% should I add to each 100 gallon of CSM+B Plantex?

Rotalabutterfly.com says:

"To reach your target of 0.2ppm Fe you will need to add 344 milligrams (equivalent to 1/16 tsp + 1/64 tsp ) DTPA Fe (11%) to your 50gal aquarium to yield:
Element ppm/degree : Fe 0.2"

If you want to mix it together then the calculation looks as follows:

100g CSM+B
Dose: 1/8 teaspoon
1/8 tsp = 0.625 g
= 160 doses in 100 gallon CSM+B

344 mg DTPA Fe (11%) = 0.344g per dose x 160 doses = 55.04g DTPA Fe (11%) to 100 gallon CSM+B

Now you have the problem that it is no longer 1/8 tsp CSM + B but 1/8 tsp + 1/16 tsp + 1/64 tsp, or 3 x 1/16 tsp + 1/64 tsp

I don't see any particular benefit in mixing CSM+B with the DTPA iron up front unless you don't have the tool to measure the right amount? I would keep it separate but dose it at the same time. When you dry dose a mix you don't really know if you are dosing the correct amount of the individual components.

If you don't have the tools to measure the amounts the alternative would be to make a solution, as minimum of the Fe.

 

Thanks fa4960

I just sat down to try to do the math when I saw your answer.

I tend to agree, I was also concerned that the CSM+B looks pretty course - and adding just 0.625 grams at a time I might miss several of the ingredients.

I think I'll go with your suggestion and make a solution of CSM+B and DTPA Fe 11%, for micros.

For KNO3 (1/2tsp = 2.5g) and KH2PO4 (1/8tsp = 0.625g), I will play with these two and see which works best:

PRADO Malaysia 6pcs Stainless Steel Oval-shape Professional Measuring Spoons Set For Dry And Liquid Ingredients


]Digital Scale Spoon LCD Display Kitchen Spoon Scale 500g/0.1g Electronic Measuring Spoon Scales with 3 Detachable Weighing Spoons

 

Yes, do some experiment and see what suits your regiment.

I have individual solution for KNO3, KH2PO4 and K2SO4 and I do 2500 ml bottles with 250 ml doses. For micros I do a 1000 ml bottle and 100 ml doses so that I generally run out of everything moreor less at the same time. This suits me as I want to get the scale and all chemicals out at the same time. I need a lot of GH booster so the MgSO4 and CaSO4 I dry dose. Again I measure out 10 doses in small zipper bags and dump them in the sump as needed.

I only dose app. once a week (depending on whatever WC schedule I can fit in) so this suits my way of doing things with only blending new solutions every 8 - 10 weeks, but you may want to do it differently....

Just make sure you check your solutions on Rotalabutterfly.com for solubility. Also don't make for too many weeks / months or you may find mould in your micros, or you will have to add Potassium Sorbate for preservation which I currently do to be on the safe side.

 

.....
Just make sure you check your solutions on Rotalabutterfly.com for solubility. .....
......

Using Rotala Butterly "Which is Amazing when you get used to it!" I'm going with the following:

500ml solution, 14.5g of CSM+B , 7g of DTPA Fe 11% -
gives me 25x 20ml doses for my 50g.

I can't see anything on Rotala Butterfly on "solubility" but I'm hoping a combined 21.5g compound will dissolve in 500ml.

 

According to the calculator you will need 8.6g of DTPA Fe 11% if you aI'm at 0.2 ppm Fe?

The solubility warning will show when you violate the solubility rules. If you don't see anything then all is good. As an example try to change your dosing size for CSM+B from 20 ml to 1 ml....

 

According to the calculator you will need 8.6g of DTPA Fe 11% if you aI'm at 0.2 ppm Fe?

The solubility warning will show when you violate the solubility rules. If you don't see anything then all is good. As an example try to change your dosing size for CSM+B from 20 ml to 1 ml....

You are of course correct. But the CSM+B already contains Fe 7% Chelated.

The calculator doesn't account for multiple compounds.

I've read on another forum that 2 parts CSM+B to 1 part DPTA Fe 11% is about right.

And yes I see the solubility warning now.

(That's also why I'm not adding K2SO4, should have enough between KNO3 & KH2PO4)

 

Okay, I see. I was calculating from the assumption that the EDTA iron in the CSM+B is useless in your PH and therefore I would add full amount.

You are now experiencing one of the benefits of mixing yourself, the option to mix it exactly the way you want and need.

Just noticed that this supplier I think you are using offers to make any mixes you want - you just tell them the percentages...

100g Trace Elements / Plantex CSM+B / Plant-Prod Chelated - Micronutrient Mix

It would be cheaper to order a mix without iron (and maybe a little more Boron) and then just add your DTPA iron as you now have planned.