Dropsy in new goldfish

Frisbee

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hi,

so as some might know (from the random discussion Random Discussion: The Trilogy [Elections are up] | Forum Games 446996), I recently got 2 baby goldfish (1 red/white ranchu and 1 red/black oranda) for my 40 gallon breeder tank.

I just brought them home yesterday. I have noticed the oranda has been gulping air and seems to have some very slight swim bladder issues (not bad at all, barley noticeable, but still there). this initially concerned me a little bit, but not a lot.

whats concerning me now is the oranda was beginning to show signs of "pineconing" last night and this morning. now it is much more obvious as the day has progressed. both goldfish also have stringy poo. I ordered some API general cure (Metronidazole and Praziquantel) to treat parasites (that will be here next week).

since this is progressing quickly, I was thinking about an epsom salt bath for the oranda (and possibly the ranchu to). I was also thinking I should treat for a bacterial infection incase that's what is cuasing the dropsy.

melafix is tea tree oil based (tea tree is a natural antibiotic). I have tea tree oil and cajeput on hand, so I was wondering if there is a way I could incorporate that into an Epsom salt dip(s) to treat for bacterial infection. I don't what the dosage would be for either of those for a dip.


looking for advice on how to treat this.
 

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Once pineconing starts there isn't much you can do. Some people have good results with kanaplex at this stage. If he has dropsy and is pineconing, it is time to euthanize IMO. A pic would help tho, before you do such things.

Melafix or anything with 'fix' is generally known to be junk in the hobby. I would ditch that and try actual meds.
 
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Frisbee

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LanceDog said:
Once pineconing starts there isn't much you can do. Some people have good results with kanaplex at this stage. If he has dropsy and is pineconing, it is time to euthanize IMO. A pic would help tho, before you do such things.

Melafix or anything with 'fix' is generally known to be junk in the hobby. I would ditch that and try actual meds.
It's not bad pineconing, his scales are only barley raised. you have to look from the top and pay close attention. I attempted to get a pic earlier, but he moves a lot and they are all to blurry to even tell if his scales are raised. He is still very active and ate breakfast this morning. He's not really showing any outer signs other then slightly raised scales, some stringy poo and gulping air.

Edit: update, he seems to be doing worse, pineconing still isn’t bad, but he acts a little sicker. I decided to give him an epsom salt dip (since I don’t have many options). I filled a plastic container (about a gallon) with tank water, added about a teaspoon of epsom salt and mixed it in. I also mixed a drop of cajeput in about a cup of water, then added a drop or two of that solution to the tub. I put the oranda in it for about 10 minutes, then transferred him back to his tank. He relieved himself (probably due to the epsom salt).

He does act visibly sick now, so I’m worried. Fingers crossed.
 
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Frisbee

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While he was in the tub, I tried to get some pics of his scales. They are pretty blurry, but it’s the best I could do.
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36D5A0E0-FADD-4387-A246-10822DEA5401.jpeg
A2AAE373-EA41-47F1-98CF-42D72B4DA11C.jpeg
 

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I'm sooooo sorry LittleBlueGuppy!! :( Did you quarantine your fish when you got them? Double check to make sure the water is perfectly pristine. I would definitely add espom salts. Along with doing large water changes every 24 hour, using Kanaplex and Furan 2 together, and feeding antibiotic laced foods if possible. (Like Metroplex in food, or Wild oil of oregano)


To answer your question, you CAN make melafix at home, here's the recipe, it's from The Truth About Goldfish.

1 tsp. cajeput or tea tree oil.
1 tsp Aloe Vera gel.
1/8 tsp unscented castile soap (optional emulsifying agent)
2 cups, 1 tbsp, and 1 tsp dechlorinated water.
Combine all ingredients into a bottle or jar with a tight fitting lid.
Use: Shake well before using. Use 1 tbsp per ten gallons every 24 hours.
 
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Frisbee

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I
NevermindIgnoreMe said:
I'm sooooo sorry LittleBlueGuppy!! :( Did you quarantine your fish when you got them? Double check to make sure the water is perfectly pristine. I would definitely add espom salts. Along with doing large water changes every 24 hour, using Kanaplex and Furan 2 together, and feeding antibiotic laced foods if possible. (Like Metroplex in food, or Wild oil of oregano)


To answer your question, you CAN make melafix at home, here's the recipe, it's from The Truth About Goldfish.

1 tsp. cajeput or tea tree oil.
1 tsp Aloe Vera gel.
1/8 tsp unscented castile soap (optional emulsifying agent)
2 cups, 1 tbsp, and 1 tsp dechlorinated water.
Combine all ingredients into a bottle or jar with a tight fitting lid.
Use: Shake well before using. Use 1 tbsp per ten gallons every 24 hours.
did not quarantine, I don’t have an extra tank right now and these guys are the only ones in the tank (they are the first inhabitants besides a few snails). I will double check the water perimeters and do another waterchange and keep you guys updated.
 

NevermindIgnoreMe

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K, I just quarantine by adding salt and Microbe Lifts and MinnFinn. I always do that first thing after getting new fish, it's very important, unless you got them personally from a trusted source and they didn't go through shipping (during which they are susceptible to all sorts of things that wouldn't normally be an issue) because otherwise you don't know what they are dealing with. Especially if you got them from a fair or pet shop.
Also where did you get them?
 
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Frisbee

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NevermindIgnoreMe said:
K, I just quarantine by adding salt and Microbe Lifts and MinnFinn. I always do that first thing after getting new fish, it's very important, unless you got them personally from a trusted source and they didn't go through shipping (during which they are susceptible to all sorts of things that wouldn't normally be an issue) because otherwise you don't know what they are dealing with. Especially if you got them from a fair or pet shop.
Also where did you get them?
A little local pet shop.
 

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Ok, that is probably a lot better than Petco, but I would definitely still quarentine. I hope all goes well with your new babies! Goodnight.
 
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Update: did a water change last night, put in some DIY melafix and an almond leaf. No improvement this morning. Oranda has scale distention but still active. The ranchu is still scared of me and hides whenever I walk in the room, so it’s hard to look at him closely, but he appears a little lethargic (like yesterday) and slightly floaty. I gave them some pea last night but no breakfast this morning.

Fingers still crossed.

It seems like possibly parasites? I know parasites can cause these issues to, not just bacteria.

Hopefully these guys make it till I get that API general cure (it’s got praziquantel in it which is supposed to be good at getting rid of dopsy causing parasites). Waiting for it to come in the mail.
 

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Well, you have to remember they just had a sudden huge change, and they are going to take a few months to adjust. Pineconing can be caused by a sudden temperature change, which may be the culprit for the minor pineconing. I would not do any sudden strong medications until you've had them for a week. (Since you made natural melafix it is more gentle, just don't overdo it.) The quarantine is mainly a rest up period for the fish after environment shock, while insuring they are healthy and clean before going in a tank with other fish.
 
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NevermindIgnoreMe said:
Well, you have to remember they just had a sudden huge change, and they are going to take a few months to adjust. Pineconing can be caused by a sudden temperature change, which may be the culprit for the minor pineconing. I would not do any sudden strong medications until you've had them for a week. (Since you made natural melafix it is more gentle, just don't overdo it.) The quarantine is mainly a rest up period for the fish after environment shock, while insuring they are healthy and clean before going in a tank with other fish.
Sudden temp change can cause pineconing? That might be the culprit. The tank they are in now is heated to 76 or so, and I’m pretty sure the LFS tank wasn’t heated at all.

Hmm, should I try and lower the temp or would that be even more stressful? Should I just leave them to keep adjusting?

That would make sense why they are acting pretty normal and active, just the oranda is pineconing and they both have stringy poo.
 
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So, I’ve been trying to do some research on the gulping air problem. According to a couple sources, oil based medicines and conditioners (like stress coat and melafix) can coat gills and cause impaired fill function, which leads to gulping issues, I’m not sure if this is true or not (there are a lot of false rumors), but I’ve always used stress coat and I am currently using DIY melafix. Could this be contributing to the gulping problem?

I’ve only had them since the day before yesterday. Yesterday morning I gave them some frozen bloodworms and mysis shrimp, then last night a half of a pea, that’s it.
 

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Sounds like they have a pretty good diet. I highly recommend to have softened greens like lettuce or spinach constantly available, it is gentle on their digestive systems and healthy.

Do you have an airstsone or sponge filter? That will help with the gulping.
They also gulp when they are infected with parasites, flukes being a common culprit. Almost all pet store goldfish have flukes, there are only two effective treatments that I know of, praziquantal and (you guessed it lol) MinnFinn! IK I recommend it for pretty much everyone, but it is much safer than praziquantal, and it's made for fish. I love it. Even if it's not flukes, it will most likely get rid of it.
 
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NevermindIgnoreMe said:
Sounds like they have a pretty good diet. I highly recommend to have softened greens like lettuce or spinach constantly available, it is gentle on their digestive systems and healthy.

Do you have an airstsone or sponge filter? That will help with the gulping.
They also gulp when they are infected with parasites, flukes being a common culprit. Almost all pet store goldfish have flukes, there are only two effective treatments that I know of, praziquantal and (you guessed it lol) MinnFinn! IK I recommend it for pretty much everyone, but it is much safer than praziquantal, and it's made for fish. I love it. Even if it's not flukes, it will most likely get rid of it.
I have an air stone and a sponge filter, but they are only run during the day because my sister can’t sleep with the sound of the air pump. On top of those I have the AC 50 that runs at all times (day and night). I know it’s a little tight on the filtration. I want an AC 70 or 110, but I don’t have money right now. I think I owe my parents like $50 for buying fish meds and stuff that I need to work off.
 

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Ok, that will be a big help for them. When they are infected with parasites, especially flukes, they have a harder time taking in oxygen.
 
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I just checked the tracking on the API general cure (Metronidazole and praziquantel) and it says guaranteed by the 13th. Hopefully they’ll be alright till then and hopefully the general cure can get rid of any parasites. I looked into the minnfinn, but I already ordered the general cure yesterday and the MinnFinn is another $30 I think.
 

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Yeah it's a little pricey, but so worth it. It's the only thing I know of other than praziquantal to get rid of flukes. And you really can't beat the range of stuff it treats...
 

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