Double checking before adding nitrifying bacteria

Are you doing a fish in cycle, fishless cycle or was your tank cycled and you had a sudden ammonia or nitrite spike?: fish are in tank!

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank?: 20 gallons
What type of water are you using in your tank? (tap, well, RO/DI, other): conditioned tap water
When did you start cycling the tank?:
What type of filtration are you running on this tank? (sponge, HOB, canister, other):HOB
If canister or HOB list all the media you are running in it. (manufactured cartridges, sponge, etc.):sponge and some activated charcoal
Do you have good water agitation/surface movement?: not sure whats "good" but I have enough flow to see it with particulates, while not moving everything thats settles at the bottom
What is the water temperature?: not sure, dont have a thermometer, have a heater rated ffora 30 gal in that only runs when I do water changes really.

If fish in cycling
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts): 8 neon tetras, ~10 red cherry shrimp. 3 shrimp berried, 5 quite young
How often do you feed them and how much?: I'm not sure how much I should be feeding, but I try to feed only a tiny pinch or 2
Are they showing signs of distress? (fish hiding, staying at the top, looking pale, torn fins, etc):not that I can see
Do you have live plants in the tank?nly some free floating moss
If so are they healthy and actively growing?: I can't tell

Products used while cycling
If this is a fishless cycle what ammonia source are you using? (fish food, Dr Tim’s ammonia, other): fish food and waste
If adding liquid ammonia how often do you dose ammonia in your tank and in what quantity? (1ppm, 2ppm etc.): no
If using fish food as your ammonia source how much are you adding and how often?: any leftovers
Are you using a dechlorinater and if so, which one?: Aqueon water conditioner
Are you using bottled bacteria and if so, which one?: just bought Seachem Stability® and haven't added any yet
Did you add seeded media from a previously cycled tank?: no
What other products/chemicals are you using? (list them all): none

Testing and cycling process
What was your knowledge of the nitrogen cycle before beginning to cycle your tank? (none, beginner, intermediate (please explain), advanced): i know that the bacteria in your filter breaks the ammonia from fish food and waste into Nitrite then that into Nitrate. I know it takes time, weeks, to cycle a tank without the bacteria. I know without a good cycle the fish are in danger. I'd say intermediate because I've never done this before but I have the theoretical knowledge.
What do you use to test the water? (API liquid, test strips, other): API test kit liquid
Did you test your tap water for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH, if so post the results below?nly for PH as I assumed the rest is fine... tap PH is 8.2
Have you done any water changes and if so, when?: I've done a few. Two 25% and a 50%
How much water did you change?: see above
Did you vacuum the substrate?: I didn't have a vacuum and knew there was buildup causing ammonia so I removed the substrate for now
Did you clean your filter, filter media, decorations and/or glass?: didn't need cleaning
If using disposable cartridges have you replaced one recently?: I have no idea


*Parameters - Very Important
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Tank water:
Ammonia: ~0.75ppm
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH:8.2

Tap water:
Ammonia:?
Nitrite:?
Nitrate:?
pH:8.2

Explain your cycling problem in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the problem leading up to now)

I never did a long enough fishless cycle for the bacteria to build up, im getting no filtration of the ammonia. I have the bacteria on the way as im not even a week in but I've replaced ~20 gallons of water so far. I just need to know before I add the bacteria if there's anything I should do/know about adding it to a already stocked tank. Will this stuff harm my fish if I just pour it in? Should I turn my HOB off and let the bacteria sit in it for a bit? Stuff like that. Thanks!

 

Just pour it in. Eep the filter going. Debatable if it actually works (I used it) but I think the consensus is it won't harm anything in the tank.

 

Thanks, the ammonia levels are already above 1 again just a few hours after a 50% change, so its worth a try!

 

Hi GagnonElisha.
Welcome to fishlore.
You should test the tap water for ammonia. Never “assume “anything. Test for nitrates as well you never know what it was you have been drinking.

Shake the bottle before pouring it in if it’s not to late?

Quote
“If using disposable cartridges have you replaced one recently?: I have no idea “ Research this a little. It’s a bit of a tricky question because we don’t replace cartridges for years they house some of the bacteria. Bacteria live on hard surfaces not in the water, for this reason don’t deep vacuum the gravel for a month while the tank is new.

Change water often. Every day or every 48 maximum.

 

It all.depends on what bacteria you'te going to.add. If it are actually filterbacteria you'll seed the filter / tank, if they are hetrotrophic bacteria the only thing you do is remove the ammonia which is the "foodsource" of the bacteria you want (and actually stalling the cycle)

 

Do not use Seachem Stability, it is not suitable for cycling. Neither is a product like Brightwell Microbacter 7.

If you are gonna try a bottled bac product, then FritzZyme TurboStart 700 is the best, followed by FritzZyme 7 and Tetra SafeStart(+).

There are other products you can try like API QuickStart, Nutrafin Cycle, etc., but I have not seen enough evidence one way or the other to suggest their degree of efficacy.

 

You're priority is to keep the animals safe. Neons and shrimp can be somewhat delicate.

You are doing a fish-in cycle, which is the most difficult. You need to test the water daily for ammonia and nitrite and based on the results you need to do water changes to keep the tests below .5ppm for each. That could mean multiple changes a day , or maybe one, or maybe one every 2-3-4 days. It all depends on what the test result is. If you have 1ppm ammonia, a 50% WC will bring it to 0.5 pm another will get to 0.25. ppm

The dilemma is that you want ammonia so you can cycle the tank, but you don't want ammonia because you have animals in there. The answer is to keep the ammonia very low so the fish are safe, but the bacteria have some food.

During the cycling process do not clean your filter or the hard surfaces in the tank. This is where the beneficial bacteria live. You want their population to grow, so try not to disturb them. Use water changes to control ammonia, not cleaning.

Feed very lightly. The neons can have a little every day or two. Whatever they can eat in a minute or two

All of the above applies with or without bottled bacteria. And as others have said, bottled bacteria sometimes work and often do not. So whether it works for you or not, your tank will still cycle and the above reccommendations still hold.

What temp do you have the heater set at?

You mention that "I never did a long enough fishless cycle" How long did you try to cycle fishless? How high did the ammonia get?

Do not assume your tap water is fine. Test for ammonia and nitrate. Many, many, many people have these in their tap water.

 

Kay, lots to read. Well, my bottled bacteria still hasn't arrived, the LFS completely lost my order so its gonna arrive tomorrow instead. If I tell them that I need to change it they should be fine doing so. Problem is they don't have very many bacteria stuff...

My heater doesn't have a dial, and I got it second hand so I have no idea what temp its going for. I do know its the same heater these fish have been living off of in the last home.

Is for my tap water I think its more then safe to assume it has no nitrites or nitrates in it as my tank is testing at 0. I'll still run a test on it but I'm not gonna be surprised at 0 across the board.

My attempt at a fishless cycle was 9 days long. Not long enough I know, but its already happened.

With the water changes and testing I've already been testing daily sometimes more, and water changes are never more then 24 hours apart. I don't have a tube that will run from tank to any sinks, so I'm doing it by hand.

I took out the gravel and such as the tetras were letting almost all the food fall down too far and it was becoming an ammonia issue. I left everything else I could in.

Let's say I can't change my order and I end up getting the seachem stability... am I better off not adding it?

I have my berried cherry shrimp in a breeder net so I'm trying not to disturb them when I do water changes. This means I can get a 25% and no more before they start running out of water. I've seen the tetras poke at the smaller shrimp and want to try and keep the hatchling safe when they arrive, hence the net. The shrimp have live moss in there that they can pick on and I add a small piece of food every 3rd day for them to nibble at. Should I just let them out of the net? I wanted to have a close eye on them, but if constant 50% changes are needed...

 

Do not use Seachem Stability, it is not suitable for cycling. Neither is a product like Brightwell Microbacter 7.

If you are gonna try a bottled bac product, then FritzZyme TurboStart 700 is the best, followed by FritzZyme 7 and Tetra SafeStart(+).

There are other products you can try like API QuickStart, Nutrafin Cycle, etc., but I have not seen enough evidence one way or the other to suggest their degree of efficacy.

Fritz Zyme rocks.

 

Fritz Zyme rocks.

Do not use Seachem Stability, it is not suitable for cycling. Neither is a product like Brightwell Microbacter 7.

If you are gonna try a bottled bac product, then FritzZyme TurboStart 700 is the best, followed by FritzZyme 7 and Tetra SafeStart(+).

There are other products you can try like API QuickStart, Nutrafin Cycle, etc., but I have not seen enough evidence one way or the other to suggest their degree of efficacy.

Got a change last minute, worked my way down that list but they didn't have any Fritz Zyme, and were out of everything else... ended up with Nutrafim Cycle. Good news is that im finally getting readings for Nitrates. Bad news is my ammonia is still rising and I still had to do a 75% change to keep my fish alive... then I dosed with the nutrafin again... its at .5 ppm ammonia as of right now as I'm off to bed, so here's to hoping for a .25 when I wake up!

I added all the gravel and stuff back to give the bacteria as much surface as possible to grow on, and added the moss back in now that its actually got nitrates to feed off of.

 

Only think Nutrifin is bacterial starter that only contains bacteria to keep levels low during the natural cycle taking place. A "buy-time-er" in fact. It doesn't seed the filter /tank to me as TSS and Fritzyme does.

 

Only think Nutrifin is bacterial starter that only contains bacteria to keep levels low during the natural cycle taking place. A "buy-time-er" in fact. It doesn't seed the filter /tank to me as TSS and Fritzyme does.

That explains why my levels are actually higher after overnight, and there's no nitrates at all... why would it be suggested over another that does the same thing??? Thats frustrating. Should I even keep dosing? It hardly does anything, I still have to do water changes regardless and I'm running low on the stuff already

 

Should I even keep dosing? It hardly does anything, I still have to do water changes regardless and I'm running low on the stuff already

The effectiveness of bottled bacteria is mixed. . . Sometimes it speeds up the cycling process, sometimes it doesn’t.

No matter the brand of bottled bacteria you use, I’d suggest you continue to test your water parameters daily and manage ammonia and nitrite levels with water changes.

 

The heterotrophic starters IMO are good in two occassions :
1 To keep levels low during a fish in cycle. As said they buy time for the natural bacteria to appear and establish the cycle. Point is this will actually take longer cause the foodsource for the natural ones is partly eaten away by the temporary heterotrophic bacteria.
2 In case of emergency (a mini cycle) or die of of filterbacteria. Also in this case to keep levels low till the natural ones occure.

This is why I like fishless cycles (no worries about the levels) and if you're using a starter use one that clearly has the right bacteria so you'll be seeding a tank. Always read the manual with a sceptical view. Often the brands use certain words / sentences that give the impression that they are actually cycling the tank but if you read again closely you'll notice the message is a bit different.

Nothing wrong using starters but know what you can expect and what they are actually doing in a tank.

 

Forgive me, I just saw your thread last night and jumped on but I'm also dealing with another thread will similar issues. So based on just the last couple of posts, do you have fish in that tank?

 

So based on just the last couple of posts, do you have fish in that tank?

According to the first post in this thread. . .

Are you doing a fish in cycle, fishless cycle or was your tank cycled and you had a sudden ammonia or nitrite spike?: fish are in tank!

 

Forgive me, I just saw your thread last night and jumped on but I'm also dealing with another thread will similar issues. So based on just the last couple of posts, do you have fish in that tank?

I have the tank stocked with 7 neon tetras and about 10 cherry shrimp.

Also you don't have to remind me to check my water, im testing multiple times a day!!!!!

 

I have the tank stocked with 7 neon tetras and about 10 cherry shrimp.

Also you don't have to remind me to check my water, im testing multiple times a day!!!!!

Sorry if I missed this in one of the posts above. . . How long has this tank been running?

 

I'm reading your emergency template and trying to trying catch up. I gonna try not ask the same questions.

I can't seem to see when you started your fish in cycling. Do you have a date? And are you keeping testing logs?

1) For your dechlorinator, I'm not sure I'm crazy about Aqueon. I prefer Seachem Prime and in a situation with the ammonia you can dose more and it neutralizes temporary the harmful ammonia.
2) Please test your tap water. Run all test.
3) What brand and model of HOB filter are you using?
4) Are you using manufacture filter media that goes to the filter? Can you share photos?
5) Please get a thermometer for your tank and a quality one.
6) Please get a gravel vac, doesn't have to be expensive.
7) what fish food are you using? How many times per day?

Okay, those are my beginning questions now I will talk about your initial questions. Seachem Stability, No. And No to all the bottled bacteria with the exception of FritzZyme Nitrifying bacteria. The bacteria is actually "live" unlike most. You really need either FritzZyme 7 or TurboStart 700. I swear by these products. I live in Idaho and I had to order mine and have it shipped. You said your having ammonia spikes which is to be expected with a fish in cycling. I didn't read anything about your nitrite levels. And you said you have zero nitrates. This indicates that you are in the first stage of the Nitrogen cycle. FritzZyme will help very much. All the other products out there are a waste of money. I know Walmart and Amazon sell it. Petsmart doesn't but I'm not sure about Petco. But I recommend you Google it and choose a place where you can get it fast. I will send you some links about FritzZyme but this is your answer to your question and NO do not turn off your filter ever except during your water changes. Actually I want you to adjust its flow to as high as it will go.

To protect your fish, keep testing ammonia and nitrites. Ideally we want them to be zero but keep them as low as possible by doing water changes. You may need to do w.c. every day and add extra conditioner (get some Seachem prime). Other things to help control ammonia are reduce feeding or change food, lightly vacuum substrate to rid old food.

If you can answer my questions from above, it will help me look at other potential advice.

I have the tank stocked with 7 neon tetras and about 10 cherry shrimp.

Also you don't have to remind me to check my water, im testing multiple times a day!!!!!

That's funny you posted this as I was typing my latest post to you. Lol. I don't think/hope I reminded you to test, I asked more specific questions.
I just realized that you are not in the United States, my bad. Did you test your tap for ammonia? Im in Idaho, U.S. and I have ph and nitrates in my tap, everything else is 0.
1) FritzZyme® 7 Freshwater
2) FritzZyme® TurboStart® 700 Freshwater
Read the FAQ too.
3) Articles and News: Articles & News
All your questions are in these links.

 

I'm reading your emergency template and trying to trying catch up. I gonna try not ask the same questions.

I can't seem to see when you started your fish in cycling. Do you have a date? And are you keeping testing logs?

1) For your dechlorinator, I'm not sure I'm crazy about Aqueon. I prefer Seachem Prime and in a situation with the ammonia you can dose more and it neutralizes temporary the harmful ammonia.
2) Please test your tap water. Run all test.
3) What brand and model of HOB filter are you using?
4) Are you using manufacture filter media that goes to the filter? Can you share photos?
5) Please get a thermometer for your tank and a quality one.
6) Please get a gravel vac, doesn't have to be expensive.
7) what fish food are you using? How many times per day?

Okay, those are my beginning questions now I will talk about your initial questions. Seachem Stability, No. And No to all the bottled bacteria with the exception of FritzZyme Nitrifying bacteria. The bacteria is actually "live" unlike most. You really need either FritzZyme 7 or TurboStart 700. I swear by these products. I live in Idaho and I had to order mine and have it shipped. You said your having ammonia spikes which is to be expected with a fish in cycling. I didn't read anything about your nitrite levels. And you said you have zero nitrates. This indicates that you are in the first stage of the Nitrogen cycle. FritzZyme will help very much. All the other products out there are a waste of money. I know Walmart and Amazon sell it. Petsmart doesn't but I'm not sure about Petco. But I recommend you Google it and choose a place where you can get it fast. I will send you some links about FritzZyme but this is your answer to your question and NO do not turn off your filter ever except during your water changes. Actually I want you to adjust its flow to as high as it will go.

To protect your fish, keep testing ammonia and nitrites. Ideally we want them to be zero but keep them as low as possible by doing water changes. You may need to do w.c. every day and add extra conditioner (get some Seachem prime). Other things to help control ammonia are reduce feeding or change food, lightly vacuum substrate to rid old food.

If you can answer my questions from above, it will help me look at other potential advice.

That's funny you posted this as I was typing my latest post to you. Lol. I don't think/hope I reminded you to test, I asked more specific questions.
I just realized that you are not in the United States, my bad. Did you test your tap for ammonia? Im in Idaho, U.S. and I have ph and nitrates in my tap, everything else is 0.
1) FritzZyme® 7 Freshwater
2) FritzZyme® TurboStart® 700 Freshwater
Read the FAQ too.
3) Articles and News: Articles & News
All your questions are in these links.

Okay, so most the pount you bring up are fair, and ill maek sure to address them as I run out of product.

I got the tank and filled it on October 7th then I got the fish and heater on the 11th. (I'm bad with dates thought I had it fishless longer.....)

1) Ill look into seachem when I'm running low on my current, not gonna waste it if its working still.
2) I tested, no ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates
3) AquaClear 150
4) I'll include a pic of the filter media thats in it. Mind that i got it used and it had not been filled with water for awhile when I got it.
5) not my top priority, I'd rather get a gravel vac or such, but its on my list for sure
6) im currently using some tubing to act as a vac, it works, so I'm saving up to get a super long one that will reach my bathtub.
7) ill include a pic of the foods I've been giving, it was all gifted by my roommate (his fish passed of old age) or included with the tank. Its been fed once a day and I make sure they have enough food that each tetra feeds for about 2 minutes and I add it in batches so as little sinks past them as possible. Some have even started eating from the surface of the water.

I didn't end up using SeaChem Stability, swapped to Nutrafin Cycle (for all the good thats doing...) but because of that I don't think I have enough to get FritzZyme off Amazon now, as it was more expensive then SeaChem...

My nitrates are currently 0, but they did go up on my first dose of Nutrafin Cycle enough that I did a water change and added some moss I had set aside.

As for the filter, ill make sure to keep the flow maxed.

Testing and W.C wise I've been testing when I wake up, around noon, and before bed. Then if I decide to do a W.C at any point I also test a few minutes after so I can get an idea of what the levels are and how fast they're rising.

I can't find FritZyme TurboStart 700 on Amazon, I hope FritzZyme 7 is good enough, its gonna be like 20 bucks for the smallest bottle I can find...

Thanks for reading back so much in the thread, photos are included
I'm not sure what to do at this point because it seems there's no FritzZyme in my city (ITS NOT A SMALL CITY WHYYYYY) and getting is shipped via Amazon is gonna take until next month! If anyone lives in Calgary and is willing to come wash your filter media in my tank I would appreciate it so much! All the fish places I've called have immediately shut me down as soon as I say FritZyme... it's like a forbidden word...

 

I'm not sure what to do at this point because it seems there's no FritzZyme in my city (ITS NOT A SMALL CITY WHYYYYY) and getting is shipped via Amazon is gonna take until next month!

It’s not the end of the world if you can’t get FrtizZyme.

Fish-in cycles can be a lot of work. Continue testing daily and change enough water to keep the combined level of ammonia and nitrites at or below 0.50 ppm. And only use a single dose of Prime. . . Multiple doses of Prime shouldn’t be used in lieu of water changes IMO.

If you’re diligent with testing and water changes, your fish should be just fine.

 

That's true you can do this without FritzZyme. My comment about Seachem Prime was not meant in lieu of water changes or multiple doses. Seachem recommends adding a bit more with your water changes if your cycling. Example, if the dosage for the tank size is 1 cap thread, you can use 2 cap threads. It will not harm anything but is a very good protectant for 24 hrs. This member isn't even using Prime according to the emergency template and I don't know anything about Aqueon Water Conditoner as I only use Prime.

 

evonner
On the instructions it’s stated “ by Seachem” that a double dose is an overdose at 30 degrees centigrade and 5 x the normal dose is an overdose at cooler temperatures.
When no ammonia is left to be available for Prime molecules to attach to it bonds to oxygen. Lowering the oxygen level in the water. Low oxygen will not help the bacteria grow or help the fish deal with the situation in an uncycled tank.

The benefits of adding extra prime.
A totally separate discussion. This has been written about many many times. Far to such time can be wasted on this subject should anyone wish to go down a rabbit hole. . At the risk of hijacking the thread I should stop writing? A little research will confirm that the claims written about by seachem are anecdotal and they themselves did not know about it until customers told they and they have no Scientific proof.

Regardless GagonElisha prime and all conditioners are chemicals .
It should also be noted nobody reports having issues pouring the stuff in without measuring it. Many people do double dose regardless. Thousands of litres are sold each day worldwide.
The active ingredients are identical in many brands of conditioner . Some other brands do use other chemicals to bond with ammonia.

 

Guys I don't have prime, my nearby store doesn't stock it, and I cant afford to get anything shipped right now... no prime, just water changes

 

Use the water conditioner that you have. The active ingredients are all very similar in most brands.

Water conditioner is also called de chlorinator, it makes tap water safe for fish.