Does my snow white danio have TB? Question

  1. millca Member Member

    So sorry to hear about endlercollector endlers having TB. Now that I saw your video in this thread, I'm wondering if TB isn't also what one of my snow white danios has. As endlercollector's video is the first one I've seen of TB, I thought I better post mine as well to get some opinions.

    [video=youtube;BC_DS9UV1gw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC_DS9UV1gw[/video]

    I've moved her into a specimen container and toward the end of the video I show the 29G tank of my other danios -- one of which is the last remaining of the 3 snow white danios I purchased several months ago. The first one also died in a similar fate that this one seems to be -- losing weight, not eating, getting gaunt, and its spine does look a bit curved.

    If it is TB, is euthanization the best option or are there successful treatments for it?

    Also, has any ever taken a sick and dying fish to a fish vet and had them run the tests for TB? How costly is that type of test and how do I find a fish vet locally? (I never knew there were such types of vets but I suppose it makes sense.) I know, I know, Google's my friend. I suppose I could just search for fish vets, huh? ;-) But if this test is likely a $100 test or more, it isn't going to happen, but for $25 I'd do it just to put my mind to rest.
     
  2. endlercollector Fishlore VIP Member

    I'm sorry to say that this is fish TB. Once a fish has the curved spine and gaunt chest, it is too late to medicate, so I recommend putting her down in a little bit of tank water with clove oil.

    You may try to medicate the rest of the tank, and some members here have had varying degrees of success. However I have to warn you that there is a lot of resistance to antibiotics and the TB may reappear at a later point.

    @ kevymd had a fish tested once for TB. Perhaps she can tell you what the costs are like.
     

  3. millca Member Member

    Thanks for your quick reply, endlercollector. I will try to find where I stashed my clove oil. In the meantime, can you remind me how much to put in and is that all I need to do? Or is there something else I was supposed to have alongside the clove oil? Vodka or something (which I don't have on hand).
     
  4. millca Member Member

    I just found the instructions for euthanizing fish with clove oil on a sticky:

    Still hunting for that small bottle of clove oil.
     

  5. endlercollector Fishlore VIP Member

    I only put enough water and a coffee mug or another plastic container for the fish to fit in comfortably. I uncap and shake the clove oil over it about 10 times. Then I cover it with a napkin or sheet of paper so that the fish can be comfortable in the dark until it passes.
     
  6. millca Member Member

    So according to that Walstad article on Fish TB, UV sterilizers are one way to decrease the EM in a tank especially if new fish have been added recently.

    I have an AquaClear 50 filter on my 29G tank. How would a UV sterilizer work with an HOB type filter? Or do they only work with canister filters. My SunSun 304B has one installed into it, but I'm curious how they can be used in aquariums with HOB filters? Any ideas?
     
  7. millca Member Member

    I wish I had read that in time. Instead, I watched my little fishy die. It wasn't exactly "peaceful" -- he went spastic there for a while and nearly jumped out of the container. Poor thing.
     

  8. endlercollector Fishlore VIP Member

    I'm so sorry he went that way. I have found that with more room, the fish panic more.

    I am actually using UV level one sterilizers to kill free-floating mycobacteria in four tanks that have HOB filters. Walstad said it took about eight months for her to see positive results. I only just got mine set up in May, and so I am hoping to see more improvement over the winter. I will write more in a separate thread.

    @ Junebug
    The problem with using any antibiotics is that the disease itself, while new to us, has been floating around other people's tanks for many years before. Those fish keepers probably hit it many times with antibiotics in the past and then thought they had fixed the problem. These fish then come to us with multiple issues that are late and may never come to the surface if all the water parameters I can't very well. But they may undergo go some kind of stress, become ill, and show some symptoms of one central problems. We hit them with antibiotics and other medications that might fix the most apparent illness but at the same time kill off beneficial bacteria in their digestive tracts and other parts of their internal systems. Then you have a fish whose overall immune system has been further compromised, and now he may may go on to show symptoms of his other illnesses that are resistant to antibiotics. I believe this is why some fish just keep getting sick month after month despite many drug treatments. I think that this is what has been happening to @ poeticinjustices Betta.
     
  9. poeticinjustices Well Known Member Member

    I considered that there is definitely something wrong with his immune system. But he's been showing the exact same symptoms over and over and, for now, is healing.

    Anyway I don't want to take this thread of topic but endlercollector I would LOVE to hear more of your thoughts on this as you seem really well informed. Perhaps on V's tail rot thread?
    millca - I wish i had something helpful to offer but I am sorry for all of your troubles. Aquavetmeds.info is a portal where you can search local aquatic vets.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum mobile app
     
  10. millca Member Member

    Okay next question:

    Will boiling something remove any cross contamination with TB? What's the best way to sterilize stuff if it has been in contact with a tank that had a fish suffer from TB?

    I'm thinking of small tools I can't easily replace (small sieve, etc) which I need to boil or sterilize quickly.

    But also want to know how I can clean out my python hoses once I've figured out what I'm going to do with my 29G tank and its inhabitants.

    Any tips?
     

  11. millca Member Member

    I found this wikipedia page about sterilization.

    It mentions this under boiling:

    Plus this wiki about Fish TB which mentions that the bacteria could not be grown above 98.6F (37C). Looks like temps 77-95F (25-35C) is where Fish TB flourishes.

    Here's another good article which does say boiling for 10 minutes will help:

    So I'm going to boil the small tools I can't easily replace and maybe even use a chlorine dunk for 30 minutes afterwards. That will take care of the small things I can fit inside a pot to boil.

    I still need tips on how to eventually deal with my python hose. Those are not cheap so I really do need to figure out what to do to clean it up.
     
  12. millca Member Member

    Sorry for the numerous posts, but I figured this info may help others as I discover it online elsewhere.

    So here's the latest article I read with tips on what to do with a TB outbreak:

    Looks like Calcium Hypochlorite is the way to go instead of Chlorox bleach.
     
  13. endlercollector Fishlore VIP Member

    The easiest way to sterilize is to put 70% isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) in a spray bottle. Put the small, non-porous objects in a container that is large enough to hold them in a single layer. Put on some gloves and spray everything well. Then turn all the objects over and spray again. Allow them to air dry. The rubbing alcohol will destroy the cell walls of all bacteria in about 10 minutes. Do not go for a very high percentage of rubbing alcohol as it will then evaporate too quickly to destroy the cell walls.

    I would keep any survivors in permanent quarantine in an appropriately sized tank and not add more fish. I no longer do antibiotics because they do not work on drug resistant mycobacteria.

    You can also just run things through your dishwasher. I don't worry about soap residue as the water at our place is very hard, and we've never had any problems.