Does My Betta Have Dropsy?

Kurimu.Neko

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So today, i was feeding my 10 month old betta fish when i realised he had pine coned scales. i read that his was a sign of dropsy. he also has a slight bloat.

he's still active and happily eating his pellets, which is why i didn't even notice this pineconing until it got this bad
im sorry for my terrible grammar im extremely stressed

is this dropsy??

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Rtessy

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It's normally much worse when people post on here, but it does look like Dropsy
I'm not 100%, and it will be good to wait for someone else to take a look, but if it is dropsy it's better to go ahead and start treatment because you cannot give it an inch.
Don't get too discouraged, like I said, it's normally much worse by the time people come on here. You noticed it earlier than most, and honestly don't feel bad about not noticing because at this stage, it could have taken only a single day or two for it to get here.
There's a page titled Dropsy Treatment on here under the disease section, and basically what you want to do is get yourself some unscented epsom salt and some kanaplex. You'll need a separate container in which you'll want to do epsom salt baths, 1tbsp per gallon for 10-15 minutes. It's normal for him to swim a little strange and breathe heavier than normal, but if he begins listing to the side and can't right himself or something similar, remove him immediately. The baths will reduce the swelling, make him more comfortable, and can slow the effects, but won't cure it on their own. You'll want to start 50% water changes daily, and when you begin to dose Kanaplex, the company said to do water changes on the days you are scheduled to dose, and to dose after the change. Of course, I got that info a few days after I finished the six day treatment, so what I had done was 50% water changes daily and dosed 1/2 the treatment on alternate days. So I did a 50% on the first day, added full treatment, did a 50% on the second day, added half the treatment, on the third day 50% and full dose, etc. They said it was technically overdosing because the medicine dissapates after 24-48 hours.
Be very very sure to remove the carbon from your cartridge in the filter, you can cut it out.
Last thing, can I get some more tank specs? What size tank, type of filter if there is any, type of heater if there is one, type of airpump/stone if there is one, and what recent ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings if you happen to have it? Depending on the equipment you have, there may be a bit more we can try.
This is a really tough and stressful thing to fight, and I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. I've been there, I'll try and help you through this.
 

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Yes, it is unfortunately dropsy. This is how I suggest treating it(rtessy went over most of it, but there’s just a few other things I mention in there)-
Dropsy treatment

I would suggest to continue the daily waterchanges even with the keneplex just to make sure the best you can thag there will not be any ammonia an such. If your concerned with overdosing, then perhaps try to do it even lower than what it reccomends. For example, add the full does the first day then when you do the waterchange add only 1/4 of it if you do a 50% waterchange? If it’s a major concern still then I’d just hold off on using keneplex for 2 waterchanges then redose.

I’m really sorry you’re having to go through this, it’s very hard. I’ve had way to many experiences with this myself and it never gets easier. I’ll be praying for you and your buddy that he gets better, or if you decide it’s best for him to go ahead and say goodbye, that he goes very peacefully.
 
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Kurimu.Neko

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Rtessy said:
It's normally much worse when people post on here, but it does look like Dropsy
I'm not 100%, and it will be good to wait for someone else to take a look, but if it is dropsy it's better to go ahead and start treatment because you cannot give it an inch.
Don't get too discouraged, like I said, it's normally much worse by the time people come on here. You noticed it earlier than most, and honestly don't feel bad about not noticing because at this stage, it could have taken only a single day or two for it to get here.
There's a page titled Dropsy Treatment on here under the disease section, and basically what you want to do is get yourself some unscented epsom salt and some kanaplex. You'll need a separate container in which you'll want to do epsom salt baths, 1tbsp per gallon for 10-15 minutes. It's normal for him to swim a little strange and breathe heavier than normal, but if he begins listing to the side and can't right himself or something similar, remove him immediately. The baths will reduce the swelling, make him more comfortable, and can slow the effects, but won't cure it on their own. You'll want to start 50% water changes daily, and when you begin to dose Kanaplex, the company said to do water changes on the days you are scheduled to dose, and to dose after the change. Of course, I got that info a few days after I finished the six day treatment, so what I had done was 50% water changes daily and dosed 1/2 the treatment on alternate days. So I did a 50% on the first day, added full treatment, did a 50% on the second day, added half the treatment, on the third day 50% and full dose, etc. They said it was technically overdosing because the medicine dissapates after 24-48 hours.
Be very very sure to remove the carbon from your cartridge in the filter, you can cut it out.
Last thing, can I get some more tank specs? What size tank, type of filter if there is any, type of heater if there is one, type of airpump/stone if there is one, and what recent ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings if you happen to have it? Depending on the equipment you have, there may be a bit more we can try.
This is a really tough and stressful thing to fight, and I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. I've been there, I'll try and help you through this.
Thank you so much for the help!
I'll get the Kanaplex tomorrow morning.
Is it alright if I use aquarium salt instead of Epsom salt?

It's a divided 8 gallon with my other betta fish and my brother's guppy (I was forced to take it in after my brother gave up fish keeping >.>) I'll separate the betta with dropsy into another smaller tank. Should I have a filter for this tank? Or would doing daily water changes be just fine?

My filter is an internal filter, though I'm not sure what are the specs. There's no carbon in my filter though if that helps?

I don't have a heater because of where I live, its constantly above 30 degrees Celcius (86 Fahrenheit).
Don't have an air pump/stone either.

I haven't ever tested the readings, which I know I probably should, but my tank has been running for half a year with nothing bad happening so I guess I'm doing something right?
 

Rtessy

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If you move your betta to a smaller tank, what size are you thinking? And yes, it should be fine without a filter if you're doing daily water changes.
In would really try to get some epsom salt instead, some say aquarium salt works but some say it puts far too much stress on the kidneys. Epsom salt isn't really a salt and is much gentler. Also, bettas don't often tolerate aquarium salt that well.
Well, I was going to recommend raising the temp a bit, but it looks like your air already did that, lol.
Don't worry about testing readings now, 50% daily changes will take care of everything and keep the water pristine.
 

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You need Epsom salt, not aquarium. Aquarium salt will do the opposite of what your wanting to do and instead help retain the fluids. I’d suggest testing the readings(in main tank) with a liquid test kit when you can as it may help you figure out if the dropsy infection was caused by poor water quality or not.
 
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Kurimu.Neko

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Rtessy said:
If you move your betta to a smaller tank, what size are you thinking? And yes, it should be fine without a filter if you're doing daily water changes.
In would really try to get some epsom salt instead, some say aquarium salt works but some say it puts far too much stress on the kidneys. Epsom salt isn't really a salt and is much gentler. Also, bettas don't often tolerate aquarium salt that well.
Well, I was going to recommend raising the temp a bit, but it looks like your air already did that, lol.
Don't worry about testing readings now, 50% daily changes will take care of everything and keep the water pristine.
Thank you so much for the help so far.
I'm planning to move it to a 2 gallon, as thats the only thing I have on hand right now. Is that alright, or should I get a bigger tank?
I'll try my best to find Epsom Salt.
How should I go about with making sure my other fish in the same tank don't catch it? Should I dose the whole tank with the same treatment or something?
 

Rtessy

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The two gallon will work perfectly! The main issue with Dropsy is that it's a symptom, not a disease, and it's technically a symptom of a symptom, so the cause is very difficult to determine. Basically, the swelling and pineconing (symptom) indicates Dropsy, which is kidney damage (symptom) caused by some other cause. The other cause can be so many different things, from internal parasites to pure stress, but a lot of the time it's bacterial, which is why kanaplex can help. If you want to be safe, you can add a dose or two of kanaplex to your main tank, and remove the carbon but not the cartridge. It's unlikely the other fish will catch it, but you can dose just in case. I hope this goes well for you
 
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Kurimu.Neko

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Rtessy said:
The two gallon will work perfectly! The main issue with Dropsy is that it's a symptom, not a disease, and it's technically a symptom of a symptom, so the cause is very difficult to determine. Basically, the swelling and pineconing (symptom) indicates Dropsy, which is kidney damage (symptom) caused by some other cause. The other cause can be so many different things, from internal parasites to pure stress, but a lot of the time it's bacterial, which is why kanaplex can help. If you want to be safe, you can add a dose or two of kanaplex to your main tank, and remove the carbon but not the cartridge. It's unlikely the other fish will catch it, but you can dose just in case. I hope this goes well for you
So after a full day of scavenging around my city, I couldn't find Epsom salt, or the kanaplex. The only thing that I could find was this "AZOO magic disease treatment". I bought it and I plan to try treating it. Is there any other thing I can do? Should I still try dosing aquarium salt?
 

Rtessy

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Not even epsom salt? Dang, where do you happen to be located? (like country, to keep it as least creepy as possible, lol). I haven't heard of that particular medication, does it have any antibacterial properties?
I wouldn't use the aquarium salt, just try the daily water changes for now.
 
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Kurimu.Neko

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Rtessy said:
Not even epsom salt? Dang, where do you happen to be located? (like country, to keep it as least creepy as possible, lol). I haven't heard of that particular medication, does it have any antibacterial properties?
I wouldn't use the aquarium salt, just try the daily water changes for now.
I live in Hong Kong. Honestly, it's hard to find anything that isn't local here. All we have is Chinese medicine stores with weird smelling stuff.
I have no idea if it has any anti bacterial properties, what do I look for?
Idk if im going insane, but I checked on my betta later today, and I think the bloating and pine conning has gone down? Should I still treat? or should I wait another day to see if it just gets better?
Here's him today.
89A05748-6E59-4E86-88D6-08F79838D3EB.jpg
 

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Could you maybe order it? It's rather important to the treatment, but if you can't get it nothing can be done about it. Yes, I'd treat even if its starting to go down, you can not give dropsy any room whatsoever or it'll likely come back and kill them quickly. I'd treat the other tank with an antibacterial as well to help ensure they don't get it either. As for if its an antibacterial what you have, I don't know unfortunately. I'd suggest seeing if you can find something else thats marked as an antibacterial or contacting the company and asking if it is.
 

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I know epsom salts are hard to get in India, I didnt know about elsewhere... honestly I don't know why it's restricted, I don't think it can be used as a drug or anything. It looks like the swelling has gone down, but unfortunately with dropsy that may not means much... the swelling can yo-yo all around, but it does give some hope. I know epsom salt can be used as a fertilizer in some cases, it may be worth checking a gardening store. The chemical formula is MgSO4 + 7H2O and you want this as pure as possible if you can find it. If not, the antibacterial is more important since it would be treating the root while the epsom salts treat the swelling, which seem to be going down anyway.
Edit: go ahead and treat, from what I could find the Azoo has antibacterial properties and states it treats a few of the same things as kanaplex does, though kanaplex does directly state it treats Dropsy (but I think it may be the only medicine bold enough to claim that).
 
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Kurimu.Neko

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Platylover said:
Could you maybe order it? It's rather important to the treatment, but if you can't get it nothing can be done about it. Yes, I'd treat even if its starting to go down, you can not give dropsy any room whatsoever or it'll likely come back and kill them quickly. I'd treat the other tank with an antibacterial as well to help ensure they don't get it either. As for if its an antibacterial what you have, I don't know unfortunately. I'd suggest seeing if you can find something else thats marked as an antibacterial or contacting the company and asking if it is.
Theres no way I could order things online, my parents already want to kill me for owning such a huge tank.

Rtessy said:
I know epsom salts are hard to get in India, I didnt know about elsewhere... honestly I don't know why it's restricted, I don't think it can be used as a drug or anything. It looks like the swelling has gone down, but unfortunately with dropsy that may not means much... the swelling can yo-yo all around, but it does give some hope. I know epsom salt can be used as a fertilizer in some cases, it may be worth checking a gardening store. The chemical formula is MgSO4 + 7H2O and you want this as pure as possible if you can find it. If not, the antibacterial is more important since it would be treating the root while the epsom salts treat the swelling, which seem to be going down anyway.
Edit: go ahead and treat, from what I could find the Azoo has antibacterial properties and states it treats a few of the same things as kanaplex does, though kanaplex does directly state it treats Dropsy (but I think it may be the only medicine bold enough to claim that).
I started treatment last night following the instructions, and heres how he looks like this morning!
imgpsh_fullsize (1).jpeg
It seems to be getting better, which gives me hope!
 

Rtessy

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Oh yay! I really hope he recovers. You'll want to do the full course of the treatment and keep up the water changes for at least a week after he starts to looks better... I say this from past experience, you have to be really careful. Treating Dropsy is possible and it looks like you may have caught it in time. Good luck!!
 
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