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Does Freeze Dried Brine Shrimp Make Water Too Dirty?

Discussion in 'Fish Food' started by ap4lmtree, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. ap4lmtreeWell Known MemberMember

    I fed my harlequin rasboras omega one super color flakes, omega one kelp flakes, hikari freeze dried blood worms, and hikari freeze dried daphnia. For my bettas in different tanks, I fed them hikari freeze dried daphnia and blood worms.

    However, I have stopped using (san fran) freeze dried brine shrimp because i think it might make the tank water too dirty. For instance, one of my bettas that recently died, I think it was because aeromonas bacteria found home and grew on left over freeze dried brine shrimp.

    Rather, if i want to feed any of my fish brine shrimp, I make sure now that it is either one day before or the same day as a water change and cleaning.

    What do you think about freeze dried brine shrimp? In addition, do you think of any foods to feed either of those species? I dont think either of my species of those likes NLS .5mm pellets, rather they just ignore them.
     
  2. TheBettaSushiWell Known MemberMember

    I don’t feed mine freeze dried as it has little to no nutritional value. It’s like a potato chip for us. Freeze dried also can cause bloat so I tend to stay away from it. I only feed quality pellets, bug bites, and your typical frozen foods consisting of brine, mysis and bloodworms. I feed bloodworms as a snack because I don’t consider it to have enough nutritional value for it to be a meal on its own.

    As far as the brine clouding up the tank... it could very well be possible. Freeze dried foods pretty much crumble when exposed to water for a period of time. This is because there is no moisture content. Once wet, it starts to dissolves much quicker causing your tank to have that dirty water look. Too much of it (feeding) can also make the tank water look dirty.
     




  3. ap4lmtreeWell Known MemberMember

    I doubt what you say is true about freeze dried foods being like potato chips. Perhaps, fried foods in general are mostly all bad or unhealthy. However, this is freeze dried.

    "Astronauts in space and soldiers in combat use freeze-dried foods." They have less nutrition value in some minerals or vitamins than fresh food, but they aren't necessarily bad compared to other foods.

    Furthermore Hikari foods have vitamin additives. Their blood worms for instance have the following: "vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphoshate (stabilized vitamin C), carotene, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, biotin, choline chloride, folic acid, calcium pantothenate, inositol, niacin.*"

    While your foods like bug bites are better, I dont think freeze dried blood worms or brine shrimp are poor nutrition value.
     




    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  4. TheBettaSushiWell Known MemberMember

    It’s actually 100% true. Freeze dried has little to no nutritional value, Hikari has also diminished in quality especially their dry food making them low quality with nothing but fillers. Please do your research.

    4. Freeze-Dried Foods for Betta Fish
    You can use freeze dried animal-based foods like shrimp, krill and daphnia to replace meals once or twice a week but should not be used as a staple food due to their low nutritional content.”

     

    That’s just one... I’m sure you can find more with a quick google search.

    Freeze dried not only produces constipation, it causes swim bladder not to mention the deadly bacteria that can be lingering in cheaper freeze dried foods. Feeding a variety of frozen foods is better and more nutritional but what do I know... seems like you know everything :)
     




  5. DoubleDutchFishlore LegendMember

    I love freeze dried brineshimp as food for my Corys. Think if there is left over food, you simply feed to much of it. I doubt aeromonas bacteria will grow on left over food btw
     
  6. TheBettaSushiWell Known MemberMember

    I’m not referring to left over food in the tank. I’m referring to cheaper quality freeze dried food having bacteria left over during manufacturing. From everything I have researched in the past years up until now, freeze dried should only be used as a treat and not as the only source of food.
     
  7. ystroutWell Known MemberMember

    Bloodworms and brine shrimp are definitely not lacking in nutrition, they're basically just protein and most fish need more of a balanced diet which is why flakes are good for them. They contain different meats (salmon, herring, krill, shrimp), veggies, and kelp.

    Carnivores like puffers will do fine with bloodworms being the staple of their diet. My pea puffers probably get bloodworms over half of their diet and get snails/Mysis/clam meat the rest of the time. My spotted congo puffer needs a lot more snails for her teeth so that's the staple of her diet. But if I didn't have to worry about her teeth, she'd be fine and happy with a bunch of bloodworms.

    If you use freeze dried, try soaking it in water. It will reduce the chances of bloating. Or just use frozen, I've noticed this is what fish prefer, slightly behind live food of course.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  8. DoubleDutchFishlore LegendMember

    I think there is not any food that should be the only source of food. Variation is the keyword to me.

    I doubt there will be any left over Aeromonas bacteria in freeze dried food.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. ap4lmtreeWell Known MemberMember

    So you claim i am the one who knows everything, but you are the one who wants to revolutionize and reform the whole fish feeding industry. Rather, I am not asserting any new knowledge. I am just repeating what everyone else practices and does. If, on the other hand, i wanted to change the fish feeding industry like yourself; then, i would be asserting something new and proclaiming i knew something unique or more than others.

    I often feed my bettas freeze dried daphnia. It is the food i feed them most. As it is also used as a laxative, it doesn't causes swim bladder disorder. However, my other freeze dried foods, such as freeze dried brine shrimp, that I feed my main tank might.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  10. TheBettaSushiWell Known MemberMember

    LOL ok.
     
  11. jjohnwmWell Known MemberMember

    This is the second time here on Fishlore I've read the ridiculous comparison between freeze-dried foods and potato chips (junk food). This comment by @TheBettaSushi, and another one which I believe also came from the same source; odds are good that it's also been said other times that I missed. At least this time there is a reference cited, along with the arch suggestion to "do your research".

    Read that link. There is no indication of "Christopher" having any credentials whatsoever. He has a website (wow) and has 23 years of fish-keeping experience, according to him. He states at one point that it is "vital" that you feed your betta with food specifically marketed for bettas, in order to maintain the required high protein level. A bit further on, he warns you to make sure to not use foods with a protein content less than 30%.

    I have tried to find foods with lower protein content, for a different species of fish...and it ain't easy. Even most cheap budget foods are 40% or higher. There are very few products on the market containing only 30% protein, so I'm not sure exactly where he pulled that idea from.

    Freeze-dried foods are entire organisms...brine shrimp, bloodworms, tubifex, etc...preserved by freeze-drying. They don't require preservatives if kept dry, and any time you are feeding a carnivore with a diet consisting of whole animals as opposed to processed food like flakes, you are getting closer to a natural balanced diet. I don't suggest that any food, fed exclusively, would be ideal, but I suspect that a couple varieties of freeze-dried foods used together would at least equal and likely surpass the nutritional value of any processed flake.

    I can well imagine that captive fish, which will feed ravenously when offered food and have access to perhaps artificially-large quantities on those occasions, rather than smaller portions spread out over a longer period as would be common in nature, might develop bloat if fed freeze-dried foods. The food swells quickly when it re-hydrates, and if the fish has already swallowed it this may occur within the gut, causing bloating, constipation, blockage, etc. I started using freeze-dried foods when they first became available, I'm guessing back in the 70's, and the labels back then clearly suggested pre-soaking the food to alleviate this problem, and also to increase its palatability to some fish. I don't do the extensive research you seem to; I haven't had the time to read the label on every one of the many, many containers of freeze-dried foods I have purchased and used...without problems and with great satisfaction...in the past 45 or so years, so I can't say if they still bear that label.

    Will it cloud water, or cause bacterial growth that can kill you fish? Of course it can...any food can do that, if uneaten food sits and decomposes in the tank! Are you claiming that the food, as purchased, contains bacteria that killed your fish? And that your research has allowed you to actually identify the species of that bacteria? Truly astonishing expertise, and especially so if you have attained it in only 3 years in the hobby.

    So, keep on following the recommendations put forth by "Christopher" if you wish...you seem to think he knows what's going on here, and of course that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. But I don't think you need to put it forth as an undisputed scientific truth every time someone mentions freeze-dried foods. You've made your opinion known.

    I know every time I buy another can of freeze-dried tubifex or bloodworms, I'll be reminded of "Christopher" the expert.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2019
  12. TheBettaSushiWell Known MemberMember

    LOL!!! First off, I don’t know who “Christopher” is and I really don’t care. Freeze dried is junk. Others on fishlore and other sites including all of the local fish stores I have been to have stated the same so it’s not only me. Frozen is better than freeze dried and live is better than frozen. It’s common sense. Also, it doesn’t matter how long someone has been in the hobby, research is research... some do it and some don’t
     
  13. jjohnwmWell Known MemberMember

    Did your research include actually reading that entire "modest fish" website. Christopher Adams is the mastermind of that piece of drivel. Since you put so much stock in what he says, I thought you'd recognize the name. My bad.

    I couldn't agree more with the common-sense assertion that live food trumps them all, followed by frozen, followed by freeze-dried. I'd put processed flakes somewhere closer to the bottom of that listing than any of those. But...are you saying that you also think live foods are the best possible choice? How can you possibly believe that? If you had actually read that entire article to which you provided a link, you would know that it clearly states live foods should not constitute a large portion of the fish's diet...some nonsense about it containing too much fat for the fish's health.

    Yeah, I know that's gibberish...but since you cite the article as evidence for your nonsensical claim regarding freeze-dried, it's puzzling how you could ignore this other bit of wisdom that it contains. I mean...you did read it, didn't you?

    Oh, I know! Your vast experience and body of research lets you discern the valuable bits of wisdom, while at the same time letting you recognize all the garbage that's in there. Yeah, that's it...

    Thanks for doing all that thinking for us.
     
  14. TheBettaSushiWell Known MemberMember

    Don’t care about the rest of the article. I was only referring to freeze dried foods and will stick to the fact that it is garbage.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2019
  15. CoradeeModeratorModerator Member

    Some posts have been edited/removed, whilst debate is encourage, rudeness will not be tolerated & do not derail this thread further. The Op’s question was not about nutrient value it was whether the freeze dried food makes the water dirty, please stay on topic.
     
  16. DoubleDutchFishlore LegendMember

    I didn't react on your comment but on the original post of the OP in which the suspecion of Aeromamonas bacteria caused by left over foods.

    As mentioned I think variation in food is a must. Not only cause of different minerals / vitamins needed but also cause the mentioned protein isn't simply protein. Protein can contain 20 kind of amino-acids.

    In nature fish get the needed ones by eating all kinds of stuff (l(Ikncade of omnivores other (dead) fish, insects, plant matter, algae etc etc....). That's why there are some specific foods for specific kinds of fish.

    As said I love to feed freeze dried brineshrimps. It crumbles easy, soakes and sinks immediately and all thebfish love it.

    If the OP hasn't bottomdwellers to eat the sinking ones, I think there should be fed less.
     
  17. TheBettaSushiWell Known MemberMember

    Agreed with the variation in diet aspect.
     
  18. ap4lmtreeWell Known MemberMember

    I stopped and am more hesitant about feeding any of my fish freeze dried brine shrimp because its makeup is too messy. It is okay for them to eat and stay in the aquarium for a little while. However, left over is really messy. It stays in some clumps, which look like rich environment for bacteria to grow on and in. This is especially troublesome because some of my four bettas always keep searching for food even food a few days old. My other foods besides freeze dried brine shrimp dont have this issue.

    Currently, I just have hikari freeze dried bloodworms and hikari freeze dried daphnia. Both foods are good for my betta. I also feed my 40 gallon rasbora omega one color flakes and omega one algae flakes.

    I am looking at bug bites to have an additional food to those two for my bettas.

    But yeah, after one of my bettas died from dropsy, i can't have left over food in my betta tanks for bacteria like aeromonas hydrophila, which cause such kidney infection. Aeromonas hydrophila isn't just some anecdote bacteria i found and researched, it is a common bacteria everyone that shouldn't be dismissed just because one doesn't have interest in bacteriology. It is especially important to study bacteriology if you have multiple small tanks rather than a few large tanks with lots of fish.

    Aeromonas hydrophila, which is hypothesized as the most common cause of dropsy kidney infection, is resistant to tap water chlorine. It lives on surfaces after cleaning. It can be killed through ph less than 3.0, such as with white vinegar, or it can be killed with steaming hot water rather than a quick warm water rinse.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  19. Pescado_VerdeWell Known MemberMember

    If you want to learn from well respected fish keepers I suggest the threads in the Seattle Fish Club section of this website. @SeattleRoy does an outstanding job of posting their events with videos from their guest speakers. Here's a good video on fish food. One of the things they suggest is a simple test; let your foods dissolve in a clear container and then give it a shake. It'll give you some idea of what your uneaten food is doing to your water quality. Very informative in addition to just that one point.

    Link to video-

    Link to more excellent topics - https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/forums/greater-seattle-aquarium-society-gsas.573/

    For anyone of the opinion that freeze dried foods are "garbage" I ask them to do a simple search on the internet for "are freeze dried foods lower in nutrition".

    There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
     
  20. Pescado_VerdeWell Known MemberMember

    Just an FYI, FREEZING does not kill bacteria, they're still there and "wake up" when thawed. Freeze DRYING on the other hand actually does kill some bacteria, depending on whether they are a gram negative or gram positive strain the amount will vary but by far freeze drying is a safer way to preserve and store food than simple freezing. If you're afraid of bacteria surviving the processing plant then you should be buying freeze dried foods for your fish.
     
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