Do Medications Mess Up Quarentine Filter?

kanzekatores

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Hi,
I'm setting up a 10 gallon quarantine so I can quarantine my new fish that are about to go in my 20 gallon hex. I plan to get a sponge filter, but I still don't understand sponge filters, do they need media to be put in, or are they bought all ready for use? If they need media put in is there special media that doesn't get messed up by meds? This tank is temporary, so I don't know if I need to cycle it first (it would be a hassle; all for one group of fish for one tank. This isn't long term), and if I do will that make the media any less susceptible to getting messed up by the medicine additives? I want to be able to use this filter another time for possibly another tank, but if it's just gonna get messed up by the medications I'm going to need a new one, right?
I'm a little confused by how the quarentining medications and filter react.
I also read filter media needs to be cycled first which I don't understand why if it's just going to be messed up again.
 

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Usually, you need to remove activated carbon since this can pull medicine out of the tank and not treat your fish. However, with a sponge filter, all you need to do is cycle it in your established tank for a week before putting it into your quarantine tank. Instant cycle lol. Just be careful when stocking fish to not overwhelm the beneficial bacteria. Even then, I usually just keep an airstone with a heater on my quarantine and keep up with water changes. However, with a 10 gallon and depending on the fish you want, a cycled sponge might be better as it can handle a bio-load better than a air stone. I would say if you plan on QTing for a week, just use an air stone. Anything longer you probably wanna cycle the sponge.

However, I believe methyane blue can disrupt bacteria a bit which is why you usually wanna treat in a QT tub rather than the main tank. Not saying to treat with this, but letting you know in case you need to. Otherwise, there shouldn't be any other meds to mess up the tank. Usually it's just activated carbon that messes up meds rather than the other way around.

Otherwise, sponge filters are biological media using the air as the water flow. They are already the media and shouldn't need anything (unless you buy one of those box filters that hold sponge, stones and such). All you gotta do is cycle them, and as I said before, the easiest way to cycle second+ filters is putting them on established tanks for a week to get the bacteria properly established. Could do less, but I find a week good.

Hope I answered all the questions. Let me know if you have anymore
 
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kanzekatores

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Thanks for the quick response
What I'm putting in my tank is 20x chilI rasboras, 15x crystal red shrimp or 10x crystal red shrimp and 5x amano shrimp, and probably two or so golden apple snails and some ramshorn snails. Do you think this would overwhelm the beneficial bacteria? Also how long would you recommend quarentining them?
If my filter media should be cycled first, can I just do a fishless cycle in the original quarentine, then add in the fish and meds? Instead of putting it in an established tank first?
I think I'm also gonna do an air pump in the quarentine, would that help the filtration in any way?
It's a relief to know quarentining meds won't mess up the filter. I won't use any methyane blue.
Also if the fishless cycle in the quarantine is a good option, I think I'll want the quarantine as an up and running tank, so that buying all those materials isn't for nothing. It could also be a ready spot for sick fish to go, or any new fish. A quick question about this imaginary tank: would I need to do water changes or even have a filter at all in the times when it didn't have fish in it?
 
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kanzekatores

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I have another 10 gallon established tank that I could put the sponge filter in if it's a better option than the fishless cycle, but can you just... do that? Put the filter in a tank and it becomes cycled? Wow.
 

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watermelon46 said:
I have another 10 gallon established tank that I could put the sponge filter in if it's a better option than the fishless cycle, but can you just... do that? Put the filter in a tank and it becomes cycled? Wow.
That whole stock will probably overwhelm the quarantine and your permanent tank. I would move backwards (apple snails, amano shrimp, and so on) since you wanna start small and add small overtime. Newly cycled tanks are a lot more prone to crashing than if your tank were 2 years cycled. Even then, usually better to slowly stock to be safe.

My personal rule is 3-4 weeks at minimum. I know some like 1 week, but I find 1 week is not enough time for anything to come apparent. 3-4 weeks in my experience usually shows something if anything if there. If nothing shows, acclimate them to the permanent tank.

For the 10 gallon established tank, yes. If you want to use the sponge filter, I recommend cycling the sponge in the 10g. Since there's already bacteria in the established tank, all it's gonna do is develop on the next filter (sponge). It's so nice having multiple tanks since it's how I managed to cycle three rescue betta 10g's within 2 weeks lol.

You can do a fishless cycle, but that's typically gonna take longer, and since you already have that 10g, I recommend what I said before. Once the sponge is in the QT tub, I would let it run another week before adding the stock (slowly) and treating. Air pump (with an airstone or connected to the sponge filter) will help with surface agitation which creates oxygen/CO2 exchanges as well as help beneficial bacteria develop. Usually you want a filter for longer QTing since a filter will hold majority of the bacteria (rather than relying on bacteria growing only on surfaces).

Yes, I would still do water changes. Even a 5% each week, but I wouldn't want to only top it off even if there's no fish. For me, I personally keep a 30 gallon plastic tub around that cycles extra filters. That way, when I need QT, I pull out a spare tank or tub to fill, condition then drop the established filter in. Never a bad idea to keep extra running filters about in case you need an emergency QT, give established media to a friend to help cycle their tank (or have them run their filter with your established ones) or whatever else.
 
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kanzekatores

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Imthatpeep100 said:
That whole stock will probably overwhelm the quarantine and your permanent tank. I would move backwards (apple snails, amano shrimp, and so on) since you wanna start small and add small overtime. Newly cycled tanks are a lot more prone to crashing than if your tank were 2 years cycled. Even then, usually better to slowly stock to be safe.

My personal rule is 3-4 weeks at minimum. I know some like 1 week, but I find 1 week is not enough time for anything to come apparent. 3-4 weeks in my experience usually shows something if anything if there. If nothing shows, acclimate them to the permanent tank.

For the 10 gallon established tank, yes. If you want to use the sponge filter, I recommend cycling the sponge in the 10g. Since there's already bacteria in the established tank, all it's gonna do is develop on the next filter (sponge). It's so nice having multiple tanks since it's how I managed to cycle three rescue betta 10g's within 2 weeks lol.

You can do a fishless cycle, but that's typically gonna take longer, and since you already have that 10g, I recommend what I said before. Once the sponge is in the QT tub, I would let it run another week before adding the stock (slowly) and treating. Air pump (with an airstone or connected to the sponge filter) will help with surface agitation which creates oxygen/CO2 exchanges as well as help beneficial bacteria develop. Usually you want a filter for longer QTing since a filter will hold majority of the bacteria (rather than relying on bacteria growing only on surfaces).

Yes, I would still do water changes. Even a 5% each week, but I wouldn't want to only top it off even if there's no fish. For me, I personally keep a 30 gallon plastic tub around that cycles extra filters. That way, when I need QT, I pull out a spare tank or tub to fill, condition then drop the established filter in. Never a bad idea to keep extra running filters about in case you need an emergency QT, give established media to a friend to help cycle their tank (or have them run their filter with your established ones) or whatever else.
Wow thanks so much! I had no idea about cycling filters in a week with established tanks. I will be sure to stock slowly. One last question, will the cycled filter make the QT tank not go through the nitrogen cycle? If it does go through the nitrogen cycle shouldnt I worry about the ammonia spike with the fish in it?
Thanks for all your help.
 

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watermelon46 said:
Wow thanks so much! I had no idea about cycling filters in a week with established tanks. I will be sure to stock slowly. One last question, will the cycled filter make the QT tank not go through the nitrogen cycle? If it does go through the nitrogen cycle shouldnt I worry about the ammonia spike with the fish in it?
Thanks for all your help.
Yes, it does go through the nitrogen cycle but a lot faster if you will. With fish-less cycles from scratch, you have to introduce ammonia to try and develop the beneficial bacteria. However, since we already have it on the established sponge filter, all the bacteria needs to do is work on converting the ammonia->nitrite->nitrate which I usually do a week since it's usually done by then. Sometimes overnight, but if you're able to take your time, I recommend doing that haha.
 

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Also you're very welcome! Glad to be of help Yeah, I'm surprised not more people know about it. Sure, could borrow media from someone, but it's so much easier and quicker to just cycle on an established tank lol
 

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Imthatpeep100 said:
Usually, you need to remove activated carbon since this can pull medicine out of the tank and not treat your fish. However, with a sponge filter, all you need to do is cycle it in your established tank for a week before putting it into your quarantine tank. Instant cycle lol. Just be careful when stocking fish to not overwhelm the beneficial bacteria. Even then, I usually just keep an airstone with a heater on my quarantine and keep up with water changes. However, with a 10 gallon and depending on the fish you want, a cycled sponge might be better as it can handle a bio-load better than a air stone. I would say if you plan on QTing for a week, just use an air stone. Anything longer you probably wanna cycle the sponge.

However, I believe methyane blue can disrupt bacteria a bit which is why you usually wanna treat in a QT tub rather than the main tank. Not saying to treat with this, but letting you know in case you need to. Otherwise, there shouldn't be any other meds to mess up the tank. Usually it's just activated carbon that messes up meds rather than the other way around.

Otherwise, sponge filters are biological media using the air as the water flow. They are already the media and shouldn't need anything (unless you buy one of those box filters that hold sponge, stones and such). All you gotta do is cycle them, and as I said before, the easiest way to cycle second+ filters is putting them on established tanks for a week to get the bacteria properly established. Could do less, but I find a week good.

Hope I answered all the questions. Let me know if you have anymore
yes methylene blue will kill beneficial bacteria !!! somebody on here referred to the meth blue treatment as "nuking everything"

and .... what specific meds are you using to quarantine the tank?
 

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I would think we would wait on what meds to use until we know what the fish have. Might not need to use any depending on how it goes. I do recommend the brand Microbe-lift if you ever need to use meds though. A bit on the expensive side, but golly goo does it work great
 

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Imthatpeep100 said:
I would think we would wait on what meds to use until we know what the fish have. Might not need to use any depending on how it goes. I do recommend the brand Microbe-lift if you ever need to use meds though. A bit on the expensive side, but golly goo does it work great
yes... I agree its good to wait. I have an issue with the highly advertised "quarantine trio" by aquarium co-op. 2/3 of the meds include antibiotics (not ick-x, but general cure and erythromycin) ... that are overused and shouldn't be used anymore unless it's imperative

responsible use of medications does not seem to be a popular enough forum topic... :/
 

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Addie42 said:
yes... I agree its good to wait. I have an issue with the highly advertised "quarantine trio" by aquarium co-op. 2/3 of the meds include antibiotics (not ick-x, but general cure and erythromycin) ... that are overused and shouldn't be used anymore unless it's imperative

responsible use of medications does not seem to be a popular enough forum topic... :/
I agree. I'm a fan of having a varied medicine cabinet/kit, but not treating a tank without knowing what the fish have. Just causes unnecessary stress especially if you end up treating the wrong thing or they don't have anything. That's true. Cory is a decent guy, but there's plenty of things to question. Just shows that people should get information from multiple sources to compare rather than rely on one person.

That's true, but really what proper ___ isn't a popular enough topic in this hobby lol.
 

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Anyway, sorry to get off topic OP. As recommended, I wouldn't get any meds until you know what fish have. Ich is really common in my experiences so it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least have that on hand, but again, you don't wanna treat until you know what they have to prevent unnecessary stress especially if they end up not having anything.
 

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Imthatpeep100 said:
I agree. I'm a fan of having a varied medicine cabinet/kit, but not treating a tank without knowing what the fish have. Just causes unnecessary stress especially if you end up treating the wrong thing or they don't have anything. That's true. Cory is a decent guy, but there's plenty of things to question. Just shows that people should get information from multiple sources to compare rather than rely on one person.

That's true, but really what proper ___ isn't a popular enough topic in this hobby lol.
I just have an immediate issue with the overuse of meds since the antibiotic resistant bacteria is one of our largest (if not the largest) health concerns
its worth it to do your research into what actually is the medication, what is in it, if there is an alternative and safe medication. For example, prazipro is better to use for internal parasites than general cure since it lacks the antibiotic metronidazole (edit: and general effectivity). and most bacterial issues can be treated with small amounts of salt... or meth blue... or heat, I guess

releasing invasive species into the wild is a second, not anywhere near a close second
everything else should come, if you allow yourself to keep learning .....
bringing up health concerns is always good!! if someone will listen!!!!!!! because I want to keep living in this world

when you're medicating, you can always take out the old filter media and keep it in a bucket of tank water to keep her alive. the goal is to protect the bacteria that is colonized on your filter
 
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kanzekatores

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Addie42 said:
yes... I agree its good to wait. I have an issue with the highly advertised "quarantine trio" by aquarium co-op. 2/3 of the meds include antibiotics (not ick-x, but general cure and erythromycin) ... that are overused and shouldn't be used anymore unless it's imperative
Yes! The trio was what I was going to use, along with either kanaplex or melafix for my gouramI that could (most likely not but could) have dropsy.
Addie42 said:
I just have an immediate issue with the overuse of meds since the antibiotic resistant bacteria is one of our largest (if not the largest) health concerns
its worth it to do your research into what actually is the medication, what is in it, if there is an alternative and safe medication. For example, prazipro is better to use for internal parasites than general cure since it lacks the antibiotic metronidazole (edit: and general effectivity). and most bacterial issues can be treated with small amounts of salt... or meth blue... or heat, I guess

releasing invasive species into the wild is a second, not anywhere near a close second
everything else should come, if you allow yourself to keep learning .....
bringing up health concerns is always good!! if someone will listen!!!!!!! because I want to keep living in this world

when you're medicating, you can always take out the old filter media and keep it in a bucket of tank water to keep her alive. the goal is to protect the bacteria that is colonized on your filter
Wow lots of info. Thanks
Imthatpeep100 said:
Anyway, sorry to get off topic OP. As recommended, I wouldn't get any meds until you know what fish have. Ich is really common in my experiences so it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least have that on hand, but again, you don't wanna treat until you know what they have to prevent unnecessary stress especially if they end up not having anything.
The meds I would get right now wouldn't necessarily be for if the fish had disease, they would be more for the before-I-put-them-in-the-tank quarantine process, to strengthen the fish and minimize the possibility of them getting diseases. The meds I was planning on getting were API General cure, API Em Erythromycin, HikarI Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, either API Melafix or Seachem Kanaplex, and possibly paraguard too... would any of these medicines hurt the filter?
 
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Also say my gouramI was sick or, for that matter, any of the fish I bought from the store. Do the medicines kind of sanitize the tank or do I need to do 100% water change. Can the disease spread just as easily in a permantent established tank as in a quarantine tank??
 

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