Diy Freshwater Sump

so I've been thinking about building a diy sump for my 60 gallontank and have a few billion questions. I understand the process and the nitrogen cycle, it's building the actual sump that's got all the questions.
The biggest thing is how is the water pulled from the tank to the sump and back. If a pump is pulling the water down into the sump, how does it get back up without overflowing the sump? (I know about putting a small hole in the intake and outtake lines so that if the water level drops to much in the tank it breaks the suction)
If the pump forced water from the sump to the tank, then is the water just gravity fed and if so, how do you get the filtration you need for larger tanks. Or is just the size of the compartments all that maters? So a larger surface with more media but a small pump would work? and if along those lines could I take a cheap 30 gallon filter and use the pump off that?
I have a big goldfish in there and so I was told 10X the filtration is about 5-600gph or so. The current filter is a fluval 405 canister.
I'm leaning toward the cheap plastic tote and tower idea from King of DIY.
Also, it is nearly impossible for me to order online because as soon as you ship to Canada the prices triple and stuff that is already in Canada is already expensive.

 

I don't think 2 pumps are used for sumps... even same model ones aren't perfect and you can easily flood the entire house if one underperforms. As far as I know you are supposed to have an overflow to feed the sump and a pump to bring the water back from the sump into the main tank. PVC overflows are super easy to do and dirt cheap so you could use that to bring water into the sump.

 

I don't think 2 pumps are used for sumps... even same model ones aren't perfect and you can easily flood the entire house if one underperforms. As far as I know you are supposed to have an overflow to feed the sump and a pump to bring the water back from the sump into the main tank. PVC overflows are super easy to do and dirt cheap so you could use that to bring water into the sump.

Pump location. Not 2 pumps.

So it is gravity fed? So the size of the pump dosen't matter.

 

Ooops lol. I read it wrong.
The size of the pump does matter, if the overflow throws more water than what the pump can pump then your house will turn into a pool lol. And yeah, it is gravity fed. The King of DIY has a lot of overflow videos which are easy to do, you just need PVC which should be very easy to find and not very expensive.

 

Pump needs to equal the gravity overflow. Got that. So how do you get the filtration needed for a big tank? Just lots of media?

 

An overflow pipe can drain quite a lot of water. For example, a 1" pipe can do about 600 gph flow under full gravity flow. I'd suggest looking into herbie overflows, it's a very simple design. It makes your system ultra-quiet and provides a fail-safe drain pipe so your tank doesn't overflow if the main drain clogs.

You generally get a pump that is close to the right number, then have a valve to adjust the flow so that the drain and the return pump match exactly... or, an adjustable pump may do that job as well, if it's close to begin with.

 

An overflow pipe can drain quite a lot of water. For example, a 1" pipe can do about 600 gph flow under full gravity flow. I'd suggest looking into herbie overflows, it's a very simple design. It makes your system ultra-quiet and provides a fail-safe drain pipe so your tank doesn't overflow if the main drain clogs.

You generally get a pump that is close to the right number, then have a valve to adjust the flow so that the drain and the return pump match exactly... or, an adjustable pump may do that job as well, if it's close to begin with.

That much? Wow. My pump price just skyrocketed... so a really complicated balancing act in other words.

 

I have a LifeGard Quiet One and really like it. It was $60 for a pump that's over 700gph. Of course, you have to account for loss due to head.

 

So gravity fed, valve to adjust, through the media, to the pump and back into the tank. Pin holes in the hoses (or pvc) to break suction if something malfunctions and I don't flood my place.

 

Pump needs to equal the gravity overflow. Got that. So how do you get the filtration needed for a big tank? Just lots of media?

The pump needs to be BELOW the gph of the overflow.

This is my DIY sump, I used a 75 gallon tank for the sump, as it gave me a lot of room and extra water. The first chamber has 4 18" filter socks, the next has 2000 bio balls, 4 liters of eheim substrat pro, 1 liter of ceramic rings, and pothos. The last last chamber has my heaters and pump. I've also added a grow light for the pothos, an ozone generator, and a nitrate filter since this photo.

 

The pump needs to be BELOW the gph of the overflow.

This is my DIY sump, I used a 75 gallon tank for the sump, as it gave me a lot of room and extra water. The first chamber has 4 18" filter socks, the next has 2000 bio balls, 4 liters of eheim substrat pro, 1 liter of ceramic rings, and pothos. The last last chamber has my heaters and pump. I've also added a grow light for the pothos, an ozone generator, and a nitrate filter since this photo.
View attachment 328580

Nice work.

 

The pump needs to be BELOW the gph of the overflow.

This is my DIY sump, I used a 75 gallon tank for the sump, as it gave me a lot of room and extra water. The first chamber has 4 18" filter socks, the next has 2000 bio balls, 4 liters of eheim substrat pro, 1 liter of ceramic rings, and pothos. The last last chamber has my heaters and pump. I've also added a grow light for the pothos, an ozone generator, and a nitrate filter since this photo.
View attachment 328580

Below? Won't that cause the sump to over fill?

 

You can get a KEDSUM 770 gph return pump for like $23 on amazon. I just got it recently and it's really quiet and works great.

 

You can get a KEDSUM 770 gph return pump for like $23 on amazon. I just got it recently and it's really quiet and works great.

Canadian will triple the price. Might as well buy what's around here.

 

These are the materials you would need for a sump:

Deluxe CS90 with Lid and Aqua Lifter - CPR Aquatics

UP14 Sumpro Sump - Skimz

VarioS-2 Controllable DC Pump (792 GPH) - Reef Octopus
Set the pump to 550gph.

 

Below? Won't that cause the sump to over fill?

No. The extra water will go into the sump, not the tank. If overflows push more water into the sump than the pump can take out, the tank won't overflow.

 

These are the materials you would need for a sump:

Deluxe CS90 with Lid and Aqua Lifter - CPR Aquatics

UP14 Sumpro Sump - Skimz

VarioS-2 Controllable DC Pump (792 GPH) - Reef Octopus
Set the pump to 550gph.

Those parts would sort of defeat the whole purpose of a DIY sump...

 

These are the materials you would need for a sump:

Deluxe CS90 with Lid and Aqua Lifter - CPR Aquatics

UP14 Sumpro Sump - Skimz

VarioS-2 Controllable DC Pump (792 GPH) - Reef Octopus
Set the pump to 550gph.

Yeah not for those prices. I can buy another canister at that rate.

 

No. The extra water will go into the sump, not the tank. If overflows push more water into the sump than the pump can take out, the sump won't overflow.

That makes no sense...

 

That makes no sense...

I meant to say the tank won't overflow, not the sump.

 

Those parts would sort of defeat the whole purpose of a DIY sump...

I got carried away looking at items.

The overflow is still necessary unless the OP plans to drill the tank. The pump can be replaced for a cheaper one, although you won't get the reef octopus quality with a $20-50 pump.

 

I meant to say the tank won't overflow, not the sump.

But if more water is going into the sump then what's being pumped out, what keeps it from overflowing ? You lost me there.

I got carried away looking at items.

The overflow is still necessary unless the OP plans to drill the tank. The pump can be replaced for a cheaper one, although you won't get the reef octopus quality with a $20-50 pump.

PVC or hosing to syphon the water out of the tank into the sump. Same way I emptied it. And if that dosent work I'll google it

 

But if more water is going into the sump then what's being pumped out, what keeps it from overflowing ? You lost me there.


PVC or hosing to syphon the water out of the tank into the sump. Same way I emptied it. And if that dosent work I'll google it

Water is constantly getting siphoned out of the tank faster than the pump can return it.

 

Yeah, I get that part (I think) but why won't the sump over flow though.

 

Yeah, I get that part (I think) but why won't the sump over flow though.

It doesn't overflow because your overflow box will adjust the flow.
Water flows from your tank --> overflow box --> standpipe (drain hole) --> sump and gets returned through the return pump.
If you return more water than it drains, the sump will eventually empty and your tank may overflow.
If you return less water than it drains, it will lose suction and stop draining when the water level is equal to or below the standpipe.

So we need to have the water level high enough constantly to enter the overflow box and enter the standpipe which is positioned lower than the "teeth" of your overflow box.
The water that will flow into the overflow box will be at the speed that the pump is returning, so the flow rate eventually matches.

This is just my experience from building my own PVC overflow and sump, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

It doesn't overflow because your overflow box will adjust the flow.
Water flows from your tank --> overflow box --> standpipe (drain hole) --> sump and gets returned through the return pump.
If you return more water than it drains, the sump will eventually empty and your tank may overflow.
If you return less water than it drains, it will lose suction and stop draining when the water level is equal to or below the standpipe.

So we need to have the water level high enough constantly to enter the overflow box and enter the standpipe which is positioned lower than the "teeth" of your overflow box.
The water that will flow into the overflow box will be at the speed that the pump is returning, so the flow rate eventually matches.

This is just my experience from building my own PVC overflow and sump, correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok I think I get it. But you can do that without drilling the tank? Now I know what your talking about overflow box.

 

Ok I think I get it. But you can do that without drilling the tank? Now I know what your talking about overflow box.

I did not drill my tank. I use a PVC overflow that I built from watching 'The king of DIY' on youtube. The only difference is that I used an overflow box instead of a pvc pipe within a pvc pipe.

 

I did not drill my tank. I use a PVC overflow that I built from watching 'The king of DIY' on youtube. The only difference is that I used a overflow box instead of a pvc pipe within a pvc pipe.

I'll have to watch more videos then. I thought you could do a sump without an overflow box.

 

I'll have to watch more videos then. I thought you could do a sump without an overflow box.

You can go without an overflow box but fish may get sucked in. You may not have that issue with huge goldfish tho.

 

You can go without an overflow box but fish may get sucked in. You may not have that issue with huge goldfish tho.

PVC intake with holes drilled in it. and my smallest fish is 8" long.

 

PVC intake with holes drilled in it. and my smallest fish is 8" long.

You should look at that guy's youtube videos then. It should be a pvc pipe within a pvc pipe build that will act as a small overflow and does what it needs to do.

 

Lol, you don't need any box, just do the PVC overflow then.

 

PVC intake with holes drilled in it. and my smallest fish is 8" long.

I used slots in my pvc overflow because my smallest Senegalus kept getting sucked in the overflows that used holes. I suggest you do the same just to be safe.

 

I used slots in my pvc overflow because my smallest Senegalus kept getting sucked in the overflows that used holes. I suggest you do the same just to be safe.

How would you make slots? I was thinking getting my hands on a 1/8" drillbit.

 

The gallon per hour rating on the overflow is the maximum amount water it can handle. The overflow sets the water level in the tank. When the return pump put a volume of water into the tank the overflow will remove that volume back to the sump. If the pump flows more the overflow can remove the tank will overflow.

 

The gallon per hour rating on the overflow is the maximum amount water it can handle. The overflow sets the water level in the tank. When the return pump put a volume of water into the tank the overflow will remove that volume back to the sump. If the pump flows more the overflow can remove the tank will overflow.

Now I get it. Thank you.

 

How would you make slots? I was thinking getting my hands on a 1/8" drillbit.

Just take a dremmel and run horizontal slots down the pvc pipe.

 

Just take a dremmel and run horizontal slots down the pvc pipe.

I only got so many tools I can snitch from my dad and that isn't one of them. I think my guys will be fine with a ring of drilled holes, they're all pretty big.

 

Ok! Here's another question. If the overflow pipe (gonna do King of DIY's PVC one) is just under the water surface what's to help suck up from the bottom layer of the tank like canister and HOB filters?

 

AND is it possible (and if I'm feeling really ambishious) to have 2 overflows drain into one larger pipe, then into the sump? Say 2 half inch drain into one 1" pipe.