DIY CO2

thanks that was very helpful I see exactly what I need to do now All I need is a couple more check valves and I'm good 2 go! thanks again

 

guess who successfully finished his bubble counter! I'm good to go thanks everyone

 

Good stuff. Happy to help. Don't forget to post some pics so we can check out your tank.

 

Nice pics in the link you gave in post 5 nutter. Very slick set up! Where do you guys get your check valves? I run a nice one on my pressurized system but I don't want to fork over $20 for one of those if I don't have to.

Those aren't Radiator coolant jugs are they??

 

I just get check valves from my LFS. Cost something like $5 for two. I wouldn't pay $20 for one in a blue fit of murder. The bottles are 5lt Bleach bottles. I had to use bleach to sterilise one of my large tanks so I've got a few of them lying around. I've also used old 5lt hydroponic nutrient bottles. The larger bottles are so much better than the 2lt. The mixture lasts longer, (6-8 weeks good production), & the larger surface area seems to produce more bubbles to. I'll never use another 2lt bottle for co2.

 

I would be more than happy to post pics! that is if I knew how

 

My black fluorite sand should be in by this Wednesday so I’ll be redoing my entire tank. I plan on moving all of my fish to the 29 gallon goldfish tank set to 78F. This way I don’t stress out the fish while I make the changes. I’ll also be preparing a DIY CO2 generator so I want to be able to monitor it for a few days/nights after I plant the tank so I can make sure the levels aren’t dangerously high. I’ve already read through this thread: along with many others (I’ll try to not ask questions that were already answered in this thread). Here’s my plan for the DIY CO2 generator:

I read the following recipe using 2L soda bottles: 2 cups of sugar with ½ tsp yeast should last about 3 weeks. I figure I could run two of them, switching one of them out each week to maintain a more continuous flow of CO2. I’d be using check valves on each tube.

Here are my questions:

1.) Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using the same recipe in 1 gallon milk containers instead of 2L soda bottles (according to the thread above it should lengthen the run-time)?

2.) Supposedly, adding more sugar also lengthens the run-time so can I just double or triple the amount of sugar that I add so that the reactor lasts longer to reduce maintenance?

3.) I read that a lot of people choose to run the end of the tubing into the intake of a canister filter to diffuse the bubbles. Would it be a good idea to use that same method on an Emperor 400 HOB filter (do I need to worry about it damaging my impeller) or should I just get a ceramic airstone to be safe?

4.) After I fine-tune the recipe, do I need to worry about adjusting it as the plants grow or as I add new plants?

I look forward to your responses. Thank you all.

 

1. I personally wouldn't use milk jugs as I think they would be harder to keep air tight. There are certain places were you can get gallon (or there abouts) bottles of juice or soda, such as Wal-Mart and even the Dollar Tree.

2. In my experience, adding more sugar is actually counter productive because the more the yeast has to eat, the faster it will multiply (or whatever it does) and it will create a lot more waste, which will kill the yeast too quickly. I use 2 cups sugar and 1/4 t yeast and it lasts about a month or a little longer.

3. I am going to try doing that myself, but I haven't done it yet so I can't comment on how well it works, but I found that just using an airstone doesn't distribute the CO2 evenly throughout the tank.

4. I don't think you should have to adjust it for more plants or more growth.

Hope that helps! I know there are others that know more!

 

1: Not sure how milk bottles are designed in the US but if they are anything like ours the lids would just blow off under the pressure from the co2 gas. I use old 5lt bleach or hydroponic nutrient containers on my rigs. THey have a long thread to the cap & will resist large amounts of pressure.

2: Adding more sugar only works to a point. Once there is enough for the yeast to feed off for the entire life of the mixture there is no point in adding anymore. 2 cups sugar is fine but there isn't much point in adding more than that IME.

3: Don't use HOB filters so I can't really tell you. Adding a small powerhead for diffusion would be a better option than a ceramic airstone IMO. Perhaps the ceramic stone directly under the HOB pickup would work pretty well.

4: Changing the mix for more plants won't help. To get more co2 into the tank you would need to add more generators. Fish can only tolerate certain levels of co2 being present & the plants can only use a certain amount of it so adding more can be dangerous to the fish & not of any benefit for the plants.

If you really want to maximise the amount of co2 you are adding I suggest looking into injection systems. With a 55gal tank you will struggle to achieve maximum co2 levels using a diy system. You will get plenty of benefit from using the diy on a 55gal but it has it's limitations. If you want to go for maximum results & efficiency then an injected system would be the way to go on a tank of that size.

 

1. I personally wouldn't use milk jugs as I think they would be harder to keep air tight. There are certain places were you can get gallon (or there abouts) bottles of juice or soda, such as Wal-Mart and even the Dollar Tree.

1: Not sure how milk bottles are designed in the US but if they are anything like ours the lids would just blow off under the pressure from the co2 gas. I use old 5lt bleach or hydroponic nutrient containers on my rigs. THey have a long thread to the cap & will resist large amounts of pressure.

Ok that pretty much answers my question about that. Thanks a lot!

2. In my experience, adding more sugar is actually counter productive because the more the yeast has to eat, the faster it will multiply (or whatever it does) and it will create a lot more waste, which will kill the yeast too quickly. I use 2 cups sugar and 1/4 t yeast and it lasts about a month or a little longer.

2: Adding more sugar only works to a point. Once there is enough for the yeast to feed off for the entire life of the mixture there is no point in adding anymore. 2 cups sugar is fine but there isn't much point in adding more than that IME.

Great info guys. I guess I'll stick with the two cups then.

3. I am going to try doing that myself, but I haven't done it yet so I can't comment on how well it works, but I found that just using an airstone doesn't distribute the CO2 evenly throughout the tank.

3: Don't use HOB filters so I can't really tell you. Adding a small powerhead for diffusion would be a better option than a ceramic airstone IMO. Perhaps the ceramic stone directly under the HOB pickup would work pretty well.

OK I'll just look into this some more then. Maybe I could put the tubing through the intake cage and then connect a ceramic airstone to the tubing inside of the cage (it's fairly large so it would probably fit).

4. I don't think you should have to adjust it for more plants or more growth.

4: Changing the mix for more plants won't help. To get more co2 into the tank you would need to add more generators. Fish can only tolerate certain levels of co2 being present & the plants can only use a certain amount of it so adding more can be dangerous to the fish & not of any benefit for the plants.

Once again, great info. I understood that the CO2 levels should be within a certain range (10-25ppm?) but I wasn't sure how much of it was actually being used by the plants. I figured with a lot of plants, more CO2 would have to be supplemented to account for the additional usage, but I guess not.

So based on this, I don't even have to wait until I plant the tank to start testing out the system do I? I could move the fish out now, rig the empty tank with the DIY system and start tweeking it so that I maintain a certain CO2 level, right? Then when the substrate comes in, I could set everything up in the tank and put the fish in right away (at least after slowly acclimating them to the lower pH as I had read in another thread).

If you really want to maximise the amount of co2 you are adding I suggest looking into injection systems. With a 55gal tank you will struggle to achieve maximum co2 levels using a diy system. You will get plenty of benefit from using the diy on a 55gal but it has it's limitations. If you want to go for maximum results & efficiency then an injected system would be the way to go on a tank of that size.

It's actually a 45g, not 55g, and considering the 3" of substrate and all of the decorations taking up space, it's probably closer to 35g. Does this seem more reasonable?

Thank you guys so much. You've been a great help ;D

 

4: Changing the mix for more plants won't help. To get more co2 into the tank you would need to add more generators. Fish can only tolerate certain levels of co2 being present & the plants can only use a certain amount of it so adding more can be dangerous to the fish & not of any benefit for the plants.

Did I misunderstand this? Are you saying that I WOULD have to supplement more, but I'd have to do it by adding more generators? Or once I set it up, can I just keep everything consistent afterwards?

Sorry for all of the questions. I just want to make sure I do this right because I don't want to harm any of my fish. Thanks.

 

No I'm not saying you would need to supplement more co2 if you have more plants. Just that if you want to add more co2 you will need to add more generators rather than adjust the mixture. I don't worry about exact co2 concentrations. I just add what I think is enough & then keep it as consistent as possible.

Just a note on set up. If you can, put the plants in first & let them get established for at least 1 month before adding any fish. The plants will act as fantastic filters & will have an effect on the stability of PH in the tank. It would be best if you can get the tank stable with the plants in it before adding fish. If you have the fish in & used to how the tank is there would be a greater risk to their health when you add the plants in & the PH balance gets thrown out. You can test the co2 system out on the empty tank but it would be best to get everything stable before you add any fish. Easier to plant a tank that doesn't have fish in it anyway.

Here's a couple of links on cycling with plants that you may find interesting:

 

Oh God Nutter, now I have even more questions for you lol. I was only going to move them out for a few days but I guess they'll be fine in the 29 gallon for a month or two. According to those articles, the plants prefer ammonia over nitrate, and the second article discussed removing biological filtration from the filter and leaving it to the plants. Do you agree with that? I have an Emperor 400 on my 45g (rated for 80g) with two activated carbon filters, 2 biological sponge filters, and 2 cartridges with Fluval BioMax media in them. Would it be better to slowly reduce the biological filtration that I have in my filter? Is that filter overkill for my tank? Should I switch it with the Emperor 280 (rated 55g) that I have on my other tank? Should I stop using a filter altogether? HAHA I'm soooo sorry lol but everything I read in those articles were COMPLETELY new info to me so my head's like spinning right now. I don't know how you put up with me but thank you.

EDIT: Oh yea, and the second article advised against using water column fertizers and to only use substrate fertilizers if need be. Do you agree with this?

 

For ferts I say use whatever suits your needs best. I use liquids & substrate tabs, sometimes in the same tank & have never had any issues. Just use what will suit your set up the best.

DO NOT stop using a filter. The plants are great for absorbing ammonia etc but they can only consume so much. In a heavily stocked tank you will still build up a bacteria population, even if there are heaps of plants. The plants can't consume every single little bit of ammonia so eventually you will end up with a bacteria population & nitrate readings. The bacteria population will just be smaller than a tank with no plants. It may take several months before the bacteria population starts to establish itself but it will happen eventually. Alot also depends on how well the plants are growing & how many fast growing plants species you have. Slow growing or unhealthy plants won't consume much nutrients.

Of the two filters you have I would choose the smaller of the two but you can use either. There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to biological filtration.

 

I noticed that diy CO2 mixtures don't require too much sugar or yeast but almost fill a 2 litter with water... is the water important?

Basically I'm asking if I could use a 20oz bottle with the same success but less water; because its far lower profile with a small bottle...

If I can't do that what purpose does the water serve just for my knowledge.

Thanks

 

I prefer to use larger volumes of water, (within reason), as it takes longer for the alcohol that forms in the mixture to reach levels where it kills off the yeast. The smaller the volume of water the faster the levels of alcohol reach levels that are lethal to the yeast.
I use 2cups of sugar & 1/2tsp of bakers yeast in 4lt of water, in 5lt generators. My mix lasts 4-8 weeks depending on the temperature. (the higher the temp the faster the reaction takes place)

 

thank you.

Do you think that setup puts out enough CO2 (assuming proper dispersion) for HC in a 10g?

So you use the twin generators for consistency correct?

If I used 2 2litter generators how can I adjust the solution for more or less concentration of CO2? I would eventually like to add fish and I know too much CO2 will hurt/kill the fish.

 

I sure hope so. I use twin 5lt generators myself but your 2lt ones should be producing co2 at much the same rate if the yeast mix is the same. My twin generators are on a 63gal so I sure hope 2 generators is enough on a 10gal.

 

I plan on eventually adding fish to the CO2 injected tank and I was wondering how to adjust how much CO2 I make in order to control the PH better. I believe its less yeast... but is is less yeast or more sugar or both? Thanks.

 

Less yeast is one way to control it though it's a bit hit & miss IMO. The less yeast the slower the reaction is supposed to take place. Personally I think there is more control from either changing the type of diffuser so that not as much co2 dissolves into the water or by adjusting the filter nozzle to control the amount of surface movement. The more surface movement the faster the co2 dissolves back into the atmosphere.

 

In addition to what Nutter said, you can also add an air stone and then adjust the amount of air that's going into the water by adjusting a valve along the tubing. This would have the same effect as what Nutter said about adjusting the filter nozzle.

 

In addition to what Nutter said, you can also add an air stone and then adjust the amount of air that's going into the water by adjusting a valve along the tubing. This would have the same effect as what Nutter said about adjusting the filter nozzle.

I was going to mention that but I've only just started experimenting with the technique myself so I didn't want to advise on doing it. I have found that you need a pretty large airstone to get a reasonable difference from the air flow adjustments.

I think it is a good idea & should work pretty well but as I said I just don't have the experience with this particular technique yet to advise how well it works or the best way to do it.

 

The only reason I mentioned it was because for someone like me who has an HOB filter and can't adjust the filter nozzle, it's the only option. I have no experience with it yet but I figured it could work. If I end up needing to do this, I'll mention my results in one of my threads

 

Ok hypothetically now... If I put an adjustment valve in the airline and an air stone... When I turn the air down wouldn't the pressure simply build up and then come out even faster making no noticeable difference? This is just me and my logic....

 

I understand your logic but it's not correct because a certain pressure will be maintained in the tubing. I think the excess pressure is released through through the base. You can completely close the valve if you wanted (but I think it would eventually cause damage to the pump).

 

damage to the pump? I'm not sure what you mean by pump. Do you mean reactor? lol... And I see... geez, there goes my logic letting me down again...

 

Damage to the air pump. You could always use a 2 way gang valve to control the flow from an air pump. One line goes to an air stone in the tank the other outlet on the gang valve could just be a relief valve.

 

Ah, once again I look right past an easy solution lol. Thanks for that Nutter ;D

 

Out of the last 4 batches I have prepared, all 4 of them fail to develop any signs of a gaseous reaction taking place let alone release any bubbles into my filter intake.

I really need some sort of Co2 injection even with frequent dosage of excel. My current setup has a total of 78 W of 1 x10 000k and 1 x 6500 K THO bulbs with an eco compelte setup and medium intensity plants such as baby tears and fert tabs. While the plants are sufficing but there is some algae growth. the tank is 40 gallon long

I did test my equipment out and found no leaks in the 2liter bottle nor the tubing. Concluding that my yeast might be dead I bought a fresh package yesterday and while there were some signs of gaseous release it wasn't at the same frequency as in the past and as of today morning no visible release at all.
The steps I have been using for the last 6 mths are:
- dissolving 2 cups of sugar with warm water
-filling the 2litre bottle till the bottle neck
- adding 1/4 tsp of yeast and shaking the mixture rigoursly
Any help would be appreciated

 

HI s2dat,

I would consider increasing to 1/2 tsp of yeast to 2 cups of sugar, and only fill the bottle to about 2" below the air tube (top of bottle).

R

 

Good advice above from Ryan. Adding to that, if the water adding the yeast to is too hot you could be killing some or all of the yeast off.

What is the temperature where you are overnight & during the day (average) & are you using some kind of bubble counter?

 

Yes, yeast can be killed off if the water is too hot. The water should not be more than 110 F. It should be like baby water....barely warm. What type of yeast? Are you using basic bakers yeast that would be used to make bread? Or, one of the wine yeasts? Or?

I've been adding 2 cups sugar, 1/2 - 1 tsp bakers yeast and 1/4 tsp baking soda. When I fill the bottle I add small amount of water first and remove the chlorine which can affect yeast. Then add the ingredients and shake vigorously to dissolve everything. Once dissolved, I add enough water so that it goes slightly above the label on a 2 liter bottle. If the bottle is too full, the CO2 will dissolve into it instead of being released. This works well for me so long as the temperature is warm enough.

Hope you figure out what's up with your CO2.

 

I would first of all sterilize the bottles (pouring near-boiling water inside, shake and then dumping in a container with ice cold water worked fine for me).

The pH of the water is important for the yeast. That is addressed simply by adding 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda (not baking powder but baking soda) to the mixture.

I only used RO processed drinking water (TDS <20ppm) to mix the 2 cups of sugar. I used a blender vase to mix the stuff, then I pour this mixture of sugar (brown sugar or white sugar works well) and room temperature RO water into the 2 litre soda bottle. I filled this with more room temperature RO water to 1" below the upper curvature of the soda bottle (I used mostly Coca Cola).

Once that is done, in a different container (I used a coffe cup) I place lukewarm RO processed drinking water (used an electronic thermometer to confirm temperature since too hot will kill the yeast, too cold will slow down the "jump-start") to which I added 1/2 teaspoon of yeast (most types work well), followed by the 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda. Mix it vigorously (some "slug" might remain int the bottom of the cup, I just ignored it).

Pour the yeast mixture into the 2L bottle with the sugar mixture. Screw the cap and shake vigorously. It helps to jump start the generation of CO2. Within eight hours I have CO2 running through.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

 

Chlorine affects the yeast? Do you have any evidence that supports that Dena? I've experimented with straight tap water & dechlorinated water & found no difference at all myself. I'd be interested in having a read if you can give some supporting evidence or chlorine affecting the yeast? I'm always happy to learn something new.

Pepe, no need to over complicate things. So long as the sugar gets totally dissolved, there's no need to bother with worrying about exact temps or blending it all or anything else like that. Dissolve the sugar in 1 cup of hot water & then fill the bottle to 2" from the bottom of the co2 line with cold water straight from the tap. baking soda is optional unless the water being used is under PH 7.2 (like your RO water would be).

 

Great advice above

Another thought, have you checked your air lines for any blockages/obstructions, both internal (e.g. gunk caught in the opening?) and external, something crimping the line.
And is the check valve around the right way?

Sorry, if it seems obvious, but I always go back to basics when chasing problems.

 

Chlorine affects the yeast? Do you have any evidence that supports that Dena?

I don't have any documentation to share, only my personal experience with using yeast in the kitchen.

It may be something else in our tap water, such as chloramine or phosphate, but what I do know is that when I use my tap water the bread will not rise or will rise poorly as if the yeast was old. However, using the same yeast (I purchase in a small glass jar that holds enough yeast for several loaves of bread) with bottled water or water that has been filtered to remove chlorine, the bread will rise as expected.

Chlorine is used to kill bacteria and parasites in our drinking water. And with yeast being a fungus, it is also a living organism, just like the bacteria, and I figured that was why I have these issues.

 

What is the temperature where you are overnight & during the day (average) & are you using some kind of bubble counter?

The temperature here has been fluctuating over the last few days. Currently its about 70 F (20 C).

The only other thing that I do differently than the conventional method is that I usually use a cup of boiling water to dissolve the 2 cups of sugar and afterwards fill the bottle up to the label mark with lukewarm water. Could this be killing the yeast which happens to to be fleischmann 's dry yeast.

As for the 5th batch I made yesterday, so far there are bubbles being broken up by the impeller but every 2-3 mins. Would increasing the quantity of either the sugar or yeast help?

 

More yeast will create a faster reaction, but will also result a shorter life of the reaction.

 

I don't have any documentation to share, only my personal experience with using yeast in the kitchen.

It may be something else in our tap water, such as chloramine or phosphate, but what I do know is that when I use my tap water the bread will not rise or will rise poorly as if the yeast was old. However, using the same yeast (I purchase in a small glass jar that holds enough yeast for several loaves of bread) with bottled water or water that has been filtered to remove chlorine, the bread will rise as expected.

Chlorine is used to kill bacteria and parasites in our drinking water. And with yeast being a fungus, it is also a living organism, just like the bacteria, and I figured that was why I have these issues.

Interesting. I think it must be something other than the chlorine in your water causing this. Perhaps Chloramine or Phosphates like you suggested. I certainly don't have the same problem & my tap water is free of both Chloramine & Phosphate.

s2dat, those temps shouldn't be too bad for the reaction. We have similar temps here at the moment & I'm still getting a good reaction from my mixes. The yeast you mentioned is ok up to about 120f from what I can find. It is possible that your killing the yeast though if the water your adding it to is over that 120f mark. Perhaps try adding straight cold water after you dissolve the sugar & before adding the yeast rather than luke warm water.

 

thanks nutter, I will try another mixture with cold water and hopefully have some positive feedback.
on a side note, since I have refrigerated my yeast powder, do I have to get it down to room temperature or can it be used straightaway?