Diy 3d Background - Ph Is Not Lowering Down!!!

HI there, I'm new to this forum and don't know if this type of question has been asked before!

I have a built my own 3D Background from this supplies:

1)100% Silicone;
2) White Styrofoam;
3) Drylok Hydraulic Cement;
4) Liquid Cement Color Pigments:
a) QUIKRETE Liquid Cement Color Brown;
b) QUIKRETE Liquid Cement Color Buff;

And, this is 50-gallon tank with no any live plants just a gavel, 3 pieces of Driftwood with sphagnum peat moss into Filter.

Peat Moss that I using:

It's been running for a week already but the PH is still 8.8

So, I added some PH Stabilizer Powder and it goes down to 7.6 - 7.8 for now, but I think it might goes up again.

So, my question is does anyone know from his own experience how long it usually takes for a DIY 3D background to be running so that the ph is stabilized?

And how to force it down?

Thanks in advance

 

I am not familiar with those DIY back grounds but I am experienced in pH stuff. I would not mess with the pH. Why are you trying to lower your pH? That would be my main question. If you had fish in there and were trying to lower or up the pH it would cause them more stress than letting them acclimate to the pH that Is stable. Fishes are pretty remarkable when it comes to pH adaptation.
But before I can answer more, why are you trying to lower your pH?

 

What is the pH of your tap water? Are you implying your background has raised your pH?

 

I am not familiar with those DIY backgrounds but I am experienced in pH stuff. I would not mess with the pH. Why are you trying to lower your pH? That would be my main question. If you had fish in there and were trying to lower or up the pH it would cause them more stress than letting them acclimate to the pH that Is stable. Fishes are pretty remarkable when it comes to pH adaptation.
But before I can answer more, why are you trying to lower your pH?

HI there,

First of thanks for your reply and time.

Why am I trying to lower a PH in my tank? Because my PH in that particular tank with 3D Background is ( 8.8 ) which the way to hight for a fish.
And No, I don't have any fish in that tank due to PH is to hight.
My PH from Tap Water is 7.2 - 7.6 which is not that bad.

I know that this 3D Background which is made of Cement and Cement pigment are having the reaction with the water and that why the PH is so hight.

The way I'm trying to lower the PH to at least 7.4 marks is by:

• 80 - 100% - Daily water change,
• Driftwood,
• And sometimes putting a Peat Moss into the filter so that makes a water softer and lower ph ( But I know that it doesn't make sense if I'm changing a water daily, but even though I'm trying lower as fast as I can)

Now, my PH drops from 8.8 to 8.0 - 8.2

And, you might gonna ask what type of fish I'm planning to put in there?

I'm planning to put a:

4 Red Guppy, (all males)
3 Blue Neon Guppy, (all males)
3 White Molly, ( 2male, 1 female)
6 Cherry Barb (all males)
2 Aquatic Frogs

That for now.

If you have any advice or opinion I opinion I would love to hear it!

Thanks,

 

What is the pH of your tap water? Are you implying your background has raised your pH?

My PH from Tap Water is 7.2 - 7.6 which is not that bad.
My current PH is 8.0 - 8.2 was 8.8.

And, yes I'm 100% sure it's due to 3D Background.

 

Usually when I see the DIY 3-D backgrounds they are putting a clear sealant over the paint and cement to keep it from leeching into the water. Did you try this?

 

Curious, what kind of clear sealant?

 

Went back and looked at the king of DIY video and he just said a clear epoxy. It isn't necessary but it cuts down on having to do water changes for several weeks to get rid of the pH issue

 

I wouldn't try messing with the pH of the tank. The background might be increasing the pH but aiming for a 7.4 pH isn't necessary. Messing with it when it's not needed can cause stress on fish and kill them. The only time you'd have to worry about your pH is if it was 6.0 which can cause massive pH swings to my understanding.
Doing a quick search online, concrete will increase pH unless it's allowed to cure in freshwater for like 6 weeks.

 

Usually when I see the DIY 3-D backgrounds they are putting a clear sealant over the paint and cement to keep it from leeching into the water. Did you try this?

Nope, never heard about one!
Here is the link that I used as the reference for building it up: Make a 3D Aquarium Background
And here some pictures of my tank:



As you can see that the Liquid Cement Color Pigments is flaking off a bit due to constant water change.

Went back and looked at the king of DIY video and he just said a clear epoxy. It isn't necessary but it cuts down on having to do water changes for several weeks to get rid of the pH issue

Clear epoxy? No, I didn't use one.

I know that there is a bunch of video tutorial out there on how to take make a 3d background but I've stopped on that type of tutorial: Make a 3D Aquarium Background

And, I know that it's a long time to get rid of hight PH level.

I wouldn't try messing with the pH of the tank. The background might be increasing the pH but aiming for a 7.4 pH isn't necessary. Messing with it when it's not needed can cause stress on fish and kill them. The only time you'd have to worry about your pH is if it was 6.0 which can cause massive pH swings to my understanding.
Doing a quick search online, concrete will increase pH unless it's allowed to cure in freshwater for like 6 weeks.

Yes, I know that the concrete takes that long for a month or even more to fully cure!

And this tank is empty all of my fish in a different tank, so there is nothing to worry about. I'm just trying to force it a bit so that it does not take that long as a month or more.
want to lower it to 7.4 at least and will be trying to put a fish one by one.

 

Now, my PH drops from 8.8 to 8.0 - 8.2

And, you might gonna ask what type of fish I'm planning to put in there?

I'm planning to put a:

4 Red Guppy, (all males)
3 Blue Neon Guppy, (all males)
3 White Molly, ( 2male, 1 female)
6 Cherry Barb (all males)
2 Aquatic Frogs

First off! Hello! I myself have a 3d background in my 30 gallons. I could elaborate a whole lot in my experience with PH but ill try and keep it short. I had PH just like you... in the 8.8. After THREE years, my PH is still at roughly 8.2 ( I find it really hard to be precise when that high) and to give you perspective my tap water is at 7.4. If I remember correctly I believe I did 100% water change for 2 or 3 weeks straight, near the ending of the 2-3 weeks I was doing 100% water change twice a day, might be overkill but it gave me peace of mind. That sayd... when you feel comfortable when your PH is roughly staying at 8.2 I would start the nitrogen cycle and when fish safe.... Add fish slowly MY PH goes to about 8 to 8.2 max now and when I do a water change it goes down to 7.8 Now, before I get told left and right... I know fish are sensitive to PH... I have a blackghost knife fish ( yes its being rehomed in a 75 gallons shortly) and those fish are scaleless and on the tougher side to keep, I also house a Gourami, a rainbow shark, some otocinclus, upside down catfish, red minor tetras and snails. They are totally fine, I do weekly 50% water changes and Ive had zero mortalities in the past 3 years with that background. I believe I'm goin on my 4th year with that particular background. The fish are super healthy and act normal, now, for the mollies and guppies I wouldnt worry at all! for the frog & barb, I have zero experience with those, I believe you shouldnt have issues with the barbs & for the frogs, absolutely no clue. Hope this helps!!! here is a pic of my 3d background at one week old :




PS Dont put any additives in your tank.. itll just be worst later... like when you take pills... it just camouflages the pain.. really.. its always there!

 

First off! Hello! I myself have a 3d background in my 30 gallons. I could elaborate a whole lot in my experience with PH but ill try and keep it short. I had PH just like you... in the 8.8. After THREE years, my PH is still at roughly 8.2 ( I find it really hard to be precise when that high) and to give you perspective my tap water is at 7.4. If I remember correctly I believe I did 100% water change for 2 or 3 weeks straight, near the ending of the 2-3 weeks I was doing 100% water change twice a day, might be overkill but it gave me peace of mind. That sayd... when you feel comfortable when your PH is roughly staying at 8.2 I would start the nitrogen cycle and when fish safe.... Add fish slowly MY PH goes to about 8 to 8.2 max now and when I do a water change it goes down to 7.8 Now, before I get told left and right... I know fish are sensitive to PH... I have a blackghost knife fish ( yes its being rehomed in a 75 gallons shortly) and those fish are scaleless and on the tougher side to keep, I also house a Gourami, a rainbow shark, some otocinclus, upside down catfish, red minor tetras and snails. They are totally fine, I do weekly 50% water changes and Ive had zero mortalities in the past 3 years with that background. I believe I'm goin on my 4th year with that particular background. The fish are super healthy and act normal, now, for the mollies and guppies I wouldnt worry at all! for the frog & barb, I have zero experience with those, I believe you shouldnt have issues with the barbs & for the frogs, absolutely no clue. Hope this helps!!! here is a pic of my 3d background at one week old :

View attachment 416173

PS Dont put any additives in your tank.. itll just be worst later... like when you take pills... it just camouflages the pain.. really.. its always there!

Hi,

Big thanks for such a detail explanation I’m really appreciate it.

Regarding my background i’m Performing a daily 100% water change for about a week and a half but PH is rising slowly till I change water again and so on.

That what I’ve been told that A 100% water change for at 2 to 3 weeks, then 50% every second day and when is safe or close to that try to put a fish in tank.

BTW nice background you made. Is that the live plants on that picture?

And how you cleaning it I mean 3D background?

 

Exactly, I'm glad it helped just be very patient and you will be very proud and happy about the results! Yup all live plants, the one in the middle is about 20 times as big now and the one on the right has about 6 more leaves and the left one never ever grew lol... it didnt like its place I guess, cleaning it? Absolutely nothing, I balance my light cycles and my ottocinclus do the magic! They are beasts when it comes to cleaning and they stay really small! Truly a fish I recommend to everyone!! Try getting 6 minimum, they are very cool to wAtch when they bunch together. I must say, maybe the first 6 months I had to clean the caulking at the top of my background, it was kindof crusty. I did use a big brush the first year I would say but my light cycle was horrible and I started having some kind of black algea, I went from 12 to 9 hours light (noon till 9pm) and huge difference. Everything is balancing out! I got some snails ( I believe nerite snails (the ones that don't reproduce)) to take care of that “black” algea. I see them very rarely but they are eating away so! I will try and get a pic maybe tommorow to show you how far the tank went along... by the way, I have over 250 hours spent on that background alone!! Cheers!

 

So you think that eventually if I add a live plants and ottocinclus to my tank it’s help more with nitrate, ph etc and overall?
But I herd that it’s much harder to take care of them and a tank itself when you got a live plants, is that true?

And how you do your water change in general, are you cleaning a gravel during a partially water change? If yes, How often and which way is the best work for you?

Thanks,

 

So you think that eventually if I add a live plants and ottocinclus to my tank it’s help more with nitrate, ph etc and overall?
But I herd that it’s much harder to take care of them and a tank itself when you got a live plants, is that true?

And how you do your water change in general, are you cleaning a gravel during a partially water change? If yes, How often and which way is the best work for you?

Thanks,

1- So the fish themselves won't help directly..after all... they do there business like any other fish lol, but they keep the tank clean which you want & controls the algae & scraps.

The plants do help a bit. I'm not a scientist or anything but for me personally I say they help me by 1/2. What I mean is like for me I need to do water changes every week but with my plants to my PERSONAL idea, I can manage a week and 1/2 to 2 weeks MAX & I know my water parameters will still be on the safe side! If I wouldnt have plants... to my idea.. I couldnt pass one week, that's just my idea... The plants definitely help with the nitrogen cycle without a doubt.. I'm sure some plants help more then others...

2- Its my first 3 live plants & there is so much more benefits to have some then to not have some... they are almost zero maintenance so to answer your question, no it is definitely not harder! Just get the easy low maintenance/low light plants (theres a ton out there!)

3- So here is how I do my water changes : I unplug only my power filter, nothing else, then roughly remove 40 to 50% of the water. So I got 4 buckets, 3 white for my fresh water & a blue one for what's goin down the drain... I siphone my sand in 3 sections... (I have way too much so I need to be carefull not to create pockets of scraps & I believe nitrate or ammonia spikes) so I siphone 1/3 of it then I go empty about 3/4 in the sink, then I go back, rinse my filter completely the most I can, then empty... then repeat 2 more times (I'm sure you get the the idea lol) After that I put my white bucket on my speaker & put my siphon in it therefore adding water very slowly to my tank so it doesn't shock my fish & heater can start heating it right away, In the past I would put water the exact temp in my buckets, for the past year or 2 I just guestimate roughly my water temp VS my actual aquarium temp. I'm usually within one degree to .5 of the actual temp (its always better to add water a bit colder then a bit hotter) Also, keep in mind I have a well with prestine water quality so I don't need to worry about chlorine BUT I still add a couple drops of Seachem Prime juuust in case I would have hard metals or whatever they call it. So yah.... that's how I do it I always do it on sunday mornings after breakfast so I know my hands are extra clean with no soap or anything on them! During holidays & peak summer times I will do it every week and a half. I reall really try not to go to 2 weeks... If I ever do a week and a half, the next water change will definitely be in a wek.. I don't repeat twice. Also, to my idea, once in a while give yourself a kick in the butt & do 2 water changes in a week.. to my idea it helps lowering the wave you create with your nitrates goin up and down... I skip fish meal about once a month or once every 2 months, no biggy... they say its good for the fish (kinda cleans the inside I guess lol) Good luck

I just got a 55 & 75 gallon tank and I'm pretty pumped about it! Once I'm done everything I should be good to do water changes about once a month with just 2-3 valves to open and close! its goin to be 10 times easier then the way I'm doing it right now!! Putting in a drip system... a big sump, the whole "shabang" ! hehe

 

1- So the fish themselves won't help directly..after all... they do there business like any other fish lol, but they keep the tank clean which you want & controls the algae & scraps.

The plants do help a bit. I'm not a scientist or anything but for me personally I say they help me by 1/2. What I mean is like for me I need to do water changes every week but with my plants to my PERSONAL idea, I can manage a week and 1/2 to 2 weeks MAX & I know my water parameters will still be on the safe side! If I wouldnt have plants... to my idea.. I couldnt pass one week, that's just my idea... The plants definitely help with the nitrogen cycle without a doubt.. I'm sure some plants help more then others...

2- Its my first 3 live plants & there is so much more benefits to have some then to not have some... they are almost zero maintenance so to answer your question, no it is definitely not harder! Just get the easy low maintenance/low light plants (theres a ton out there!)

3- So here is how I do my water changes : I unplug only my power filter, nothing else, then roughly remove 40 to 50% of the water. So I got 4 buckets, 3 white for my fresh water & a blue one for what's goin down the drain... I siphone my sand in 3 sections... (I have way too much so I need to be carefull not to create pockets of scraps & I believe nitrate or ammonia spikes) so I siphone 1/3 of it then I go empty about 3/4 in the sink, then I go back, rinse my filter completely the most I can, then empty... then repeat 2 more times (I'm sure you get the the idea lol) After that I put my white bucket on my speaker & put my siphon in it therefore adding water very slowly to my tank so it doesn't shock my fish & heater can start heating it right away, In the past I would put water the exact temp in my buckets, for the past year or 2 I just guestimate roughly my water temp VS my actual aquarium temp. I'm usually within one degree to .5 of the actual temp (its always better to add water a bit colder then a bit hotter) Also, keep in mind I have a well with prestine water quality so I don't need to worry about chlorine BUT I still add a couple drops of Seachem Prime juuust in case I would have hard metals or whatever they call it. So yah.... that's how I do it I always do it on sunday mornings after breakfast so I know my hands are extra clean with no soap or anything on them! During holidays & peak summer times I will do it every week and a half. I reall really try not to go to 2 weeks... If I ever do a week and a half, the next water change will definitely be in a wek.. I don't repeat twice. Also, to my idea, once in a while give yourself a kick in the butt & do 2 water changes in a week.. to my idea it helps lowering the wave you create with your nitrates goin up and down... I skip fish meal about once a month or once every 2 months, no biggy... they say its good for the fish (kinda cleans the inside I guess lol) Good luck

I just got a 55 & 75 gallon tank and I'm pretty pumped about it! Once I'm done everything I should be good to do water changes about once a month with just 2-3 valves to open and close! its goin to be 10 times easier then the way I'm doing it right now!! Putting in a drip system... a big sump, the whole "shabang" ! hehe

Thanks for such a detail answer!

And, 75-gallon tank it's a huge one, but as you said that changing a water with just 2-3 valves make your life easier!!

When I changing a partial water in my 10-gallon tank, for now, I'm turning of a Filter and the heater as well even though I know it's has auto switch off/on, just to be safe.( don't know if it's right).
And by that time I have a filled with water buckets with Water Conditioner in there, and then slowly adding a water to the aquarium as well.

And, regarding the water change to a lower PH of my 50-gallon tank: I went through the some forums and find out that some folks are using a Water Softener to lower PH a bit and force the process itself. But, someone saying it's only getting worse and rise my PH. So, instead of guessing, I've bought the one of the Water Softer in Pellets and put it in the tank.

I've attached some pictures below!

Have you heard anything about and what is your thoughts about it?



As I said that I've tried out the Water Softer Pellets and when they are dissolved in the water they have created some type of layer at the bottom of the tank. I think it's because of the density and specific gravity which means that salts are composed of heavier metallic atoms, such as sodium, magnesium, and potassium.
So, having said that I made to Hight PH Test's of my tank after the Water Softer Solt has been dissolved.

1) One PH from the Water Softer Solt Layer that is in the bottom of the tank: PH Result Was = 7.4
2) And, one that just from the middle/top of the tank where seems to me the Tap Water separated from the Water Softener Layer: PH Result Was = 8.4

As you can see that the results are significantly different from each other, even though that I took them at the same time and from the same water, but on different levels.

I think the Water Softener is making differences But the question is how long it's going to be like that?

I have attached a picture so that you can see that Water Softener Layer that I was talking about

 

I've bought the one of the Water Softer in Pellets and put it in the tank.

Have you heard anything about and what is your thoughts about it?



As I said that I've tried out the Water Softer Pellets and when they are dissolved in the water they have created some type of layer at the bottom of the tank. I think it's because of the density and specific gravity which means that salts are composed of heavier metallic atoms, such as sodium, magnesium, and potassium.
So, having said that I made to Hight PH Test's of my tank after the Water Softer Solt has been dissolved.

1) One PH from the Water Softer Solt Layer that is in the bottom of the tank: PH Result Was = 7.4
2) And, one that just from the middle/top of the tank where seems to me the Tap Water separated from the Water Softener Layer: PH Result Was = 8.4

As you can see that the results are significantly different from each other, even though that I took them at the same time and from the same water, but on different levels.

I think the Water Softener is making differences But the question is how long it's going to be like that?

I have attached a picture so that you can see that Water Softener Layer that I was talking about[/QUOTE]

hmmm, never heard of that but I haven't read all of the internet yet hihihihihi. If it was me, I would stay away from that... not good, really not good if you don't have the same ph everywhere... drain it all and start over... DONT rush it... & whatever your PH is when you feel like its stable and not going down anymore DONT put anything in your water... you'll just make matters worst later... As I stated at first... If your back hurst & you take a pill... it doesn't hurt no more... but its just hiding the pain... What if you forget to add salt or whatever PH stabiliser you use... your fish won't be happy at all. & I believe that is way too much salt! but I'm not sure. I can't use salt or pretty much anything because the black ghosts are scaleless fish, AKA very sensitive to pretty much anything!

Good Luck!

 

I've bought the one of the Water Softer in Pellets and put it in the tank.

Have you heard anything about and what is your thoughts about it?



As I said that I've tried out the Water Softer Pellets and when they are dissolved in the water they have created some type of layer at the bottom of the tank. I think it's because of the density and specific gravity which means that salts are composed of heavier metallic atoms, such as sodium, magnesium, and potassium.
So, having said that I made to Hight PH Test's of my tank after the Water Softer Solt has been dissolved.

1) One PH from the Water Softer Solt Layer that is in the bottom of the tank: PH Result Was = 7.4
2) And, one that just from the middle/top of the tank where seems to me the Tap Water separated from the Water Softener Layer: PH Result Was = 8.4

As you can see that the results are significantly different from each other, even though that I took them at the same time and from the same water, but on different levels.

I think the Water Softener is making differences But the question is how long it's going to be like that?

I have attached a picture so that you can see that Water Softener Layer that I was talking about

hmmm, never heard of that but I haven't read all of the internet yet hihihihihi. If it was me, I would stay away from that... not good, really not good if you don't have the same ph everywhere... drain it all and start over... DONT rush it... & whatever your PH is when you feel like its stable and not going down anymore DONT put anything in your water... you'll just make matters worst later... As I stated at first... If your back hurst & you take a pill... it doesn't hurt no more... but its just hiding the pain... What if you forget to add salt or whatever PH stabiliser you use... your fish won't be happy at all. & I believe that is way too much salt! but I'm not sure. I can't use salt or pretty much anything because the black ghosts are scaleless fish, AKA very sensitive to pretty much anything!

Good Luck![/QUOTE]

Yes, you're right. I just check my tank again and PH rise again to 8.6.
So, eventually it didn’t make any difference =(
So I drain out water and refill it with tap water again, and will keep that way till see any changes the will start a fish less cycle - hope so )

Thanks for your time was nice to talk with you.

 

Right now building my on aquarium stand and have came to the conclusion, that I am DIY challenged. So I would never attempt my own 3D background, they are very nice though.