Dither fish

Wut are some good kinds of dither fish. and are they very seccesfull in making other fish come out of hiding.

 

I have heard danios seem to be one of the fish of choice or you might you some of the more active tetras. But as I don't have any hider fish in my tanks couldn't tell you from personal experience if they serve the purpose well or not.

 

What are you trying to bring out of hiding?

I have found, the more places you give your fish to hide, the more they come out.

Dino

 

I know from experience, my harlequins are what they call dither. And the same with my lemon tetras.
Tom

 

Zebra danios are very good dither fishes. They help making even the shyest fishes come out into the open.

 

I was just wondering. And I hate danios no offense and mollys.

 

have you considered all the types of danios? there's quite a few types about, not just the zebras. mine are really good dither fish and livened up my tank. my shy guppies are not shy anymore!!
good luck
tan

 

hI king,
I agree with dino, the main point here is what r u trying to bring out of hiding? fish don't hide much nowadays except bettas, however danios r best dither fish whether u like them or not.............

 

I was just wondering. I'm not trying to bring enything out of hidding but I know sometimes loaches can be quite shy although mine don't hide all the time.

 

I thought this would be a good topic of discussion.

I rarely see anyone recommend dither fish anymore.

What is your idea of a good dither fish?

Does it matter which dither fish you use (provided they're compatable and won't be eaten) for which fish?

How about some examples of fish you used to draw another species out?

 

Dither fish are used in very specific situations, and I think the majority of people either A). don't have fish/problems that would benefit from a dither fish, or B). have problems that are well beyond the scope of how a dither fish can help.

My BGK hid most of the time, until I moved the dwarf neon rainbows to the tank, bumping the total rainbow school from 7 to 15. It seemed to me that in a lightly stocked tank, it wasn't comfortable to be out and about. I think all the movement at the top of the tank encouraged it to come out.

 

I've been around almost a year, and I also can't really think of situations where people have recommended them. I don't even know which fish benefit from dither fish - well, except BGKs, since Jaysee just explained that.

 

I've been around almost a year, and I also can't really think of situations where people have recommended them. I don't even know which fish benefit from dither fish - well, except BGKs, since Jaysee just explained that.

That's why is such a great topic (imnsho). Hopefully it'll help other members (myself included) learn about them.

 

I've used rainbow cichlids as dither/healing fish for BRP's. I truly think adding rainbows to my BRP tank is what helped my "prolapsed uterus" BRP heal. She was losing weight before I did it.

Rummynose tetras have served me well with latera curviceps.

Just a few experiences that will hopefully help.

If anyone knows of a dither fish for jaguar catfish, I'd be VERY grateful. They may be beyond the abilities of dither fish, though.

 

Please forgive my ignorance but what is a dither fish exactly, and what are they supposed to do

 

This may sound silly but, what exactly is a dither fish?

 

Dither fish are fish put in an aquarium to either make a shy fish less shy, or sometimes to alleviate aggression. Also, dither fish can be fish that will encourage other fish to eat. Not all fish are quick to the front of the chow line. In a case with picky eaters, you can add fish which will force them to compete more for the food. Fish that are pigs would not be a good choice for this role

 

It was my understanding when I got my blood parrots that they would benefit from dither fish. Some place or another (maybe here, maybe not) I picked up that zebra danios would be a good choice. So, I got them. And my parrots were fine, although I had nothing to judge their behavior against. I mean, they were out and about and if you agree with dither fish logic, that's exactly what should've happened, right?

Well, over a period of time, my rainbow shark half of the danios and I rehomed the other half, simply because I could no longer handle their psychotic level of activity.

Once the so-called dither fish were gone, my parrots really came alive!!! They are almost always out and about, their color is better, their overall attitude seems better (less chasing each other), they all respond immediately when we approach the tank. There is such a sense of calm and fun in that tank now that it's just the parrots and the shark. It's unbelievable.

So, this was one case where the dither fish were not really necessary. And nobody misses them.....

 

Can't say i'd need any of those then, not that I want any more fish in my current tank. Thanks for the explanation you guys.
Nick

 

Can't say i'd need any of those then, not that I want any more fish in my current tank. Thanks for the explanation you guys.
Nick

Exactly my point.

Most of the references I've ever seen about their use is for cichlids.

 

I first used dither fish in my pond. Goldfish work great to calm koi fish and get them to come up and eat.

Rummynose are excellent dithers for cichlids as are cardinal tetras.

Any small non aggressive fish work as dithers.

Usually middle dwellers or top dwellers.

I have heard of also using cory's as dithers but not too often.

Many dwarf cichlid breeders use dithers since a lot of the dwarfs are shy when alone as a pair.

 

Hey guys,

I'm working on creating my own line of guppies and as luck would have it the fish that have the colors I want seem to be the only girls I've owned who eat their young. Or perhaps, the danios sharing the tank ate their young - either way, the one batch of fry I saw started with four, ended in one. The second "batch" of fry I saw, I only ever saw one of them! Which seems to have disappeared since.

I thought the danios might be the culprits and moved them, however everywhere I look about dither fish "danios" are suggested good dither fish.

Here's where things get funny. I saw an ad on aquabid for good DITHERFISH (a fish that's supposed to prevent guppies from eating their young, ,because of this fish's sizes.) Everywhere else dither fish are described to be something you put in an aggressive tank to make more anxious fish calmer, and danios are suggested as good dither fish.

My question is would buying the dither fish listed actually work in preventing the fry from being eaten? I've since taken the males out of the tank as well, not sure if they're the culprits as all my other females dropped in a female only tank (and I had 85 surviving fry.)

The guppies I have now are pretty small, one female is a typically large female but the other two barely look big enough to be pregnant (and they were sold as adults so I don't think they've got much growing to do.)

I have fry hides (fake plants and guppy grass/java moss) in the tank, and a cave. The tank is gravel is the bottom has uneven ground for them to hide between when really small. I don't want to lose the fish I'm hoping to make a profit off of, but I don't want to waste money on fish that are going to take up space and bioload in the tank without actually being of any use.

Thoughts?

 

I don't have any input on dither fish, but for your fry, I suggest water sprite. I find it makes an excellent plant for fry to hide in and my molly fry also spend a lot of time eating from it as well. It will provide cover in all levels of the tank, especially the mid-upper levels which I'm guessing the java moss and guppy grass doesn't provide protection in those areas. It is a super easy plant to grow IME.

 

Why would a dither fish prevent the fry from being eaten? It's just more hungry mouths in a tank with bite sized snacks.

I've always seen dither fish described as either a fish that will draw a shy fish into the open (ie if its safe out there for them it's safe for me) or a fish to curb aggression (ie the aggressive fish wastes time and energy chasing them to cut down on the time and energy available to harass other tank mates).

Neither of those would apply to fry. The more mouths they can fit into the more mouths they will end up in.

In my opinion the best way to save the most fry (with the exception of fish that actually protect their young) is to remove the parents from the fry as soon as possible.

This can be accomplished in several ways.

1. Breeding nets.
If you take a simple net breeder, stuff it full of fine leaved plants (think myrio, java moss, cabomba, etc), place the female in it before she drops fry, and remove her immediately afterwards, most of the fry will survive.

2. Divided tank.
Same principal as above but using a portion of the tank. Again remove the female after birthing.

3. Separate tank.
Again same idea. Move expectant females to a separate tank then immediately remove them.

4. Safe haven.
If you have a large enough tank make a box with screened sides. The screen should have gaps just large enough for fry and smaller juveniles to come and go as they please but not large enough for adults or near adults. Again cram it full of plants. This box can remain in the tank with the adults indefinitely. Keep hiding spaces to a minimum outside of the box. The fry will flee to this sanctuary at birth and will be safe from the adults. When they are large enough to avoid being food they'll venture out and join the general population.

Regardless of method if you want more fry to survive there is NO benefit to keeping them with adult fish. You'll just lose most if not all to predation.

 

@EricV - Option 4 sounds awesome. But I'm having a hard time visualizing what that might look like. Do you have a pic? Currently I'm not having issues with my fry being eaten, but I know it is always a possibility. TIA

My adults aren't eating my fry. Even when I feed only EOD, they still have no interest in the fry. I think it's part temperament and part 1 huge water sprite.

 

Hiding places definitely help but with adults in the tank it is inevitable that at least some fry will get eaten.

As for the sanctuary box I don't actually breed live bearers anymore so I don't have one laying around to snap a picture of (I just hatch my eggs off in a separate tank) but I'm sure you've seen a net breeder box. Imagine that (albeit larger) with wire mesh encompassing all sides (including top and bottom).

With wire mesh that is thick enough it's very easy to bend some into shape (doesn't necessarily have to be a cube...). Just weigh down the bottom so it isn't floating around.

Basically you're adding a lid to a breeder box and replacing the netting with wire mesh. If you used two stacked on top of each other as the "bones" of the contraption it would probably be big enough. Even just one would do in a smaller tank but the bigger the better.

 

Hiding places definitely help but with adults in the tank it is inevitable that at least some fry will get eaten.

As for the sanctuary box I don't actually breed live bearers anymore so I don't have one laying around to snap a picture of (I just hatch my eggs off in a separate tank) but I'm sure you've seen a net breeder box. Imagine that (albeit larger) with wire mesh encompassing all sides (including top and bottom).

With wire mesh that is thick enough it's very easy to bend some into shape (doesn't necessarily have to be a cube...). Just weigh down the bottom so it isn't floating around.

Basically you're adding a lid to a breeder box and replacing the netting with wire mesh. If you used two stacked on top of each other as the "bones" of the contraption it would probably be big enough. Even just one would do in a smaller tank but the bigger the better.

Ok, I think I'm getting a picture in my head. So it would be like taking the bones from a breeder net, and wrapping wire mesh around the whole thing? The mesh would just need to be large enough for the fry to freely come and go? And then a little way to access the inside and keep it weighed down? And I'm guessing a stainless steel mesh would be best, least reactive, etc?

Right now, I wouldn't be heartbroken to find that my adults are occasionally taking a fry snack. I've got way more than I need. I'm trying to keep them long enough to sex though, at least right now.

Thanks for the description.

 

I don't have any input on dither fish, but for your fry, I suggest water sprite. I find it makes an excellent plant for fry to hide in and my molly fry also spend a lot of time eating from it as well. It will provide cover in all levels of the tank, especially the mid-upper levels which I'm guessing the java moss and guppy grass doesn't provide protection in those areas. It is a super easy plant to grow IME.

Sadly watersprite is not an option. I have one tiny bit of it that one of my males likes to sit on as a hammock, so it stays in the male tank. Other than that it's my snails' favorite snack (I'm pretty sure the little buggers came in on it!) so that one remaining piece aside, it does not last long in my tanks... which ALL have snails.

Why would a dither fish prevent the fry from being eaten? It's just more hungry mouths in a tank with bite sized snacks.

I've always seen dither fish described as either a fish that will draw a shy fish into the open (ie if its safe out there for them it's safe for me) or a fish to curb aggression (ie the aggressive fish wastes time and energy chasing them to cut down on the time and energy available to harass other tank mates).

Neither of those would apply to fry. The more mouths they can fit into the more mouths they will end up in.

That is exactly what I said. This person is selling these fish as something just large enough that the adult guppies can't eat them, so it supposedly breaks the guppy's habit of going after the smaller fish. Again no description of dither fish say anything about fry - I don't know why that term was even used.

The description by the seller:

The following pictures are of Heterandria formosa, a species of fish I keep in my guppy tanks. They are the smallest fish in the United States and one of the smallest vertebrates in the world. The males are the same size as juvenile guppies and work great as dither fish.

What is a dither fish?
A dither fish is any fish whose presence in a tank makes keeping another species of fish easier. By being in the tank, the male heterandria formosa protect your guppy fry. They are slightly too large to fit in the mouths of the adult guppies. This discourages the adult guppies from nipping at fry because they quickly learn that such nipping behavior does not result in a meal. This reduces predation by the parents of their young.

Also I do have a fry tank for fry removal, but I'm still not very good at determining when a female is going to drop (they always do it when I least expect it - like covered in anchor worms or in an empty QT tank without a filter and 100% daily water changes.... but those were my old girls.)

 

Good morning,

Any fish small enough to fit into another fishes mouth will be breakfast. That's just the way it is.

You could try adding some Dwarf Water Lettuce to float on top of the water. Once the roots get long, it makes for a good hiding spot for fry:





Photos above are of my pond, a haven for cute little frogs. No fish.

Check your local fish stores and Fish Lore Buy/Sell/Trade/Free for Dwarf Water Lettuce.

I added a few sprigs of the Dwarf Water Lettuce in the early spring and it's growing like crazy! I also keep it in my 33g tank and 4 refugiums. You can see how large the lettuce is when given a lot of space and lots of light. The pond gets full sun from around noon to late evening.

Sorry, I do not ship. Privacy reasons.

Ken




Note the roots hanging down from the Dwarf Water Lettuce.

Ken

 

Good morning,

Any fish small enough to fit into another fishes mouth will be breakfast. That's just the way it is.

You could try adding some Dwarf Water Lettuce to float on top of the water. Once the roots get long, it makes for a good hiding spot for fry:

View attachment 118793View attachment 118794

Photos above are of my pond, a haven for cute little frogs. No fish.

Check your local fish stores and Fish Lore Buy/Sell/Trade/Free for Dwarf Water Lettuce.

I added a few sprigs of the Dwarf Water Lettuce in the early spring and it's growing like crazy! I also keep it in my 33g tank and 4 refugiums. You can see how large the lettuce is when given a lot of space and lots of light. The pond gets full sun from around noon to late evening.

Sorry, I do not ship. Privacy reasons.

Ken

View attachment 118795

Note the roots hanging down from the Dwarf Water Lettuce.

Ken

That looks a lot like duckweed, which I have plenty of and can't keep alive so probably not a good idea for my tanks. I'd been looking for something like duckweed only larger in order to stop my guppies from eating it but the giant duckweed just gets sucked up into the filter.

Now that the males and danios are gone I think I'm going to just add more guppy grass. I do have a big plastic plant going in that I got specifically for fry to hide in - so hopefully that'll be useful too, it has a few vines covered in leaves and a suction cup to stick to the side of the tank sort of like a fry mop.

I had been keeping a breeder box in the tank too so fry could sneak into the slots if pursued, since I couldn't find a divider with big enough space for the fry to slip through.


The obvious answer here is no don't buy the "dither" fish.

Thanks for your input guys

 

The heterandria formosa (aka-dwarf livebearer or least killifish) are also livebearers and can probably cross with the guppies.

In my guppies' tank I have a lot of hornwort floating around--it takes up probably 1/3 of the tank. I'm sure I lose some babies but, as you know from my post in the RAOK, I have several who do not get eaten. I usually leave them in the parent's tank for at least a week, basically until they are big enough to NOT be eaten, then I move them to the baby tank.

What kind of snails do you have? My 45g is heavily planted and the majority of the plants are water sprite. That tank has bladder, ramshorn, trumpet, and assassin snails and none of them eat the plants. The bladders chewed some holes in my anubias and sword leaves, but they don't bother the water sprite.

 

The heterandria formosa are also livebearers and can probably cross with the guppies.

In my guppies' tank I have a lot of hornwort floating around--it takes up probably 1/3 of the tank. I'm sure I lose some babies but, as you know from my post in the RAOK, I have several who do not get eaten. I usually leave them in the parent's tank for at least a week, basically until they are big enough to NOT be eaten, then I move them to the baby tank.

What kind of snails do you have? My 45g is heavily planted and the majority of the plants are water sprite. That tank has bladder, ramshorn, trumpet, and assassin snails and none of them eat the plants. The bladders chewed some holes in my anubias and sword leaves, but they don't bother the water sprite.

The crossbreeding was another concern I had, but didn't bother to ask since the general idea seems to be "don't do it." in the first place.

I don't know, honestly since they're all hitchhikers and my photos aren't very clear for help IDing them. I have pond, ramshorns definitely and mystery snails according to an egg clutch I found - not sure about anything else though.

The funny thing is we discussed in a thread before about your anubias having holes and your water sprite being fine. I have the opposite problem, although in one tank the anubias did get sick and have to have some leaves removed, the snails refused to eat it - even dying. The other anubias in a different tank has thrived beautifully. My wisteria and watersprite vanished.

I only have ramshorns in one tank for some reason, which doesn't make a lot of sense since I ordered plants from sites and divided them evenly between the tanks.

 

Hi all, first off is a pair of kribs a good idea in a traditional 20? I have seen it is and that it isnt just curious on other people’s thoughts. And I heard that it’s good to have dither fish and that harlequins work well with kribs for this, but I’m not sure on how many would be suitable for the tank. I see a lot of people put 4-6. I was also curious if a fish that stayed up higher would be considered a dither or if they need a little bit of something to chase for instance hatchetfish or a pencil fish that stays up top and won’t bother the bottom rarely if at all. I hope this makes sense thank you for any information!!

 

Hi Jallen42
It would seem the name dither fish can be used for a fish doing two different jobs?

If a dither fish is to show the water is safe and the other fish can come out now ? Then a top water fish does that job.

If a dither fish is there to take any aggression that might otherwise be put on the parter in a pair breeding situation then that is a different job. A fast moving fish is required.

I believe the pencil fish can do both of these jobs.
My pencil fish have not read that they should stay in the top of the tank. Their mouths are small making them an excellent choice for a dither fish IMO. I have pencil fish with other dwarf cichlids but I have not kept Kribs . I believe they breed often?

 

Hi Jallen42
It would seem the name dither fish can be used for a fish doing two different jobs?

If a dither fish is to show the water is safe and the other fish can come out now ? Then a top water fish does that job.

If a dither fish is there to take any aggression that might otherwise be put on the parter in a pair breeding situation then that is a different job. A fast moving fish is required.

I believe the pencil fish can do both of these jobs.
My pencil fish have not read that they should stay in the top of the tank. Their mouths are small making them an excellent choice for a dither fish IMO. I have pencil fish with other dwarf cichlids but I have not kept Kribs . I believe they breed often?

I believe they breed pretty commonly, but they are good parents and one may be killed if there isn’t a fish to give them a sense of the need to protect there babies. They are also shy so it helps to have a fish that is out to bring them out and show it’s somewhat safe. Are pencil fish fast moving if they need to?

 

Pencil fish have the torpedo shape of a fast moving species. I believe it should be a good combination?

 

Pencil fish have the torpedo shape of a fast moving species. I believe it should be a good combination?

I may have to avoid pencil fish unfortunately unless they do fine in harder water! I may still try them cause they may adapt as the ones I can get are captive bred!

 

What about guppies [that's what I use], a 20 would be fine, it's what I use for breeding kribs, good luck

 

What about guppies [that's what I use], a 20 would be fine, it's what I use for breeding kribs, good luck

I also had that idea I just wasn’t sure if the guppies I like “panda guppies” would be a good option for that, however with my harder water I believe I am gonna get some Julis .

 

If you want to breed them I would start with cheap guppys, I have had them [males] take a eye out on more than one cory.