Distressed fish?

HI all,

New to the forum and am having some problems with my new 20 gallon tank. Didn't know about cycling when I started it 10 days ago, and am of course learning through the unfortunate deaths of my fish

Currently in the 20 gallon I have 5 neon tetras, 5 black neon tetras, 1 baby bristlenose pleco (1.5 inches) and 1 baby clown pleco (2 inches). There is driftwood, fake plants and a cave in the tank.

Unfortunately since starting this tank I have lost 2 neons (sucked into the Aquaclear 20 gallon filter - found one swimming in the filter alive but it later died). I now have prefilters installed on all my filters (both the 6 gallon and 20 gallon tanks)

Last night I noticed that 3 of the black neons had broken away from the main group and were swimming at the surface. The other black neons schooled with the neon tetras and were all fine. Today 1 black neon was dead and 1 was in poor shape so I had to euthanise it. And when I returned from work this evening, the 3rd lone swimmer was dead too.

I thought I noticed small white spots on one of the dead black neons and figured ich might have broken out so I raised the temperature of the water to 30deg today, and since my 20 gallon was being filtered by an Aquaclear 20 I bought an Aquaclear 70 and set it on "low" to add to the filtration plus installed an airstone.

Now one of the other black neons is swimming at the surface. He seems to swim there, dart away, play in the current of the Aquaclear 70 then return near the surface again. He doesn't seem agitated and isn't swimming abnormally but I don't know if this top-dwelling proclivity is a sign of trouble. He is not schooling with the other tetras.

Not too sure what else I can do. My water parameters are: ammonia 0.25, nitrites 0, nitrates 5. I do daily 20-25% water changes with added Seachem Prime because of the plecos (which will be rehomed in a new 55 or 60 gallon in the next few months - haven't decided which size to go for)

Should I be worried about my black neon loner? Is an Aquaclear 70 too powerful a current generator for a 20 gallon tank? I am running it together with the Aquaclear 20 I already had in place since I figured any bacteria I had in that one would be wasted if I took the 20 off.

Any ideas? Or do black neons simply like to freak their people out?

 

Welcome to Fishlore!!!

Allot of us started as you did At this point, keep up with your daily water changes and try to find some prime or amquel+ to add with it. One of those will detoxify the water(ammonia/nitrites) for 24 hours and keep the fish safe.

 

Welcoe to fishlore!!

There's not much more that you can do other than daily water changes. Keep an eye on the rest of the fish to make sure the possible ich stays under control. You have some nitrates, which is promising; you're almost there! Good luck!

 

Well I just went out to check on him and he was floating upside down. Gills still moving spasmodically. So I put him down... he was a big dude, over an inch long. No idea what killed him, checked his body and there were no spots, deformities, lumps etc, nothing to suggest ich or NTD or fin rot, he looked in perfect condition. Bah. My hope is for my two plecs to survive I have grown especially fond of Bozo the clown... Thanks dolphinlover and Shawnie for the encouragement - the next tank shall be cycled fishless - much less expensive and easier on the nerves.

Any thoughts on whether the new Aquaclear 70 is too powerful for a 20 gallon tank? I chose it because I am hoping to be able to use it on a new, bigger tank when the time comes, keep a Fluval Edge shrimp/galaxy rasbora tank and save the 20 gallon for quarantining new fish. But am just not sure about the crazy current.

 

Oh no I'm sorry!!!!

Once you get this tank cycled, you can add extra filter media for a few weeks. That will give you more beneficial bacteria to have an instant cycle on a new tank. Good Luck with the rest of your fish!

 

Aww, I'm sorry I would guess that it was the ammonia that killed him, and not ich, or anything. The best thing you can do now is water changes.

By the way, what kind of test kits are you using? Many people on the forum believe that strips are unreliable and instead reccomend API master liquid test kits.

 

I am using Nutrafin MinI Master Test Kit. It is the liquid type. The ammonia reading was 0.25 and I also added Seachem Prime, which is why I'm a little puzzled how that would be the culprit. It seems to be quite the mystery... the tank had its water change with Prime dose just four hours prior to my noticing him checking out the "zone of impending doom" at the top of the tank.

 

Well, the only thing I can think of is that neons (for me) are always a bit touchy with their water parameters. I'm actually surprised that only two of your normal neons died- good for you! It's probably just an especially bad batch of black neons. This happens all the time to many different kinds of fish (I can't keep guppies alive for more than a couple months anymore for the life of me). Looks like now the best thing you can do is wait until your tank is cycled.

 

In case you didn't know (I only learned recently), Prime is only effective for 24 hours. I'm in the same boat as you (I thought cycling a tank meant plugging in the filter for a few days...oh how we learn), and I dose my tanks for the full volume every day. And I thought my bottle of Prime would last forever!

Another idea might be to test your tap water, as well. I know quite a few members, myself included, have ammonia in their tapwater. So if the ammonia in your tank is LESS than the ammonia in the tapwater, then doing a water change will be making matters worse! Of course, you also need to keep an eye on nitrates, as well.

Best of luck with your fish Prime and frequent water changes will be your best bet.

 

Are you dosing (or double dosing) enough Prime to treat the entire tank, or just enough to treat the new water you are putting in?

 

Enough for the entire tank, because Prime is no longer effective after 24 hours. I'm not double dosing though, because I have no nitrites and ammonia is just at 0.25.

 

My reply above was actually meant for the OP, minceymeatpie. Sorry for any confusion.

 

Oops, sorry... (I thought about asking who you meant, too.)

 

Hey there,

I'm dosing the Prime for the entire tank. Dose daily and do a 20-25% water change daily. My survivors happily seem to be doing okay for now; especially with the added filtration and airstone. The temp is still 30 and they seem to be doing all right, the bristlenose is eating and always active. But oh poor Bozo, I have no idea what my clown pleco does. I put zucchinI and cucumber in the tank and they go untouched and at first I thought the algae wafers were also untouched but I saw (!!! with my own eyes!!! the bristlenose eating it tonight when I sneaked up in the dark to watch) Bozo has driftwood but surely he can't live on that alone?

For now I keep my hopes up that the survivors will all make it. No further signs of ich on any of the tetras

 

Thought I'd update the thread - 20 gallon is now cycled, the fish all seem happy and are growing; Runty the Sole Survivor neon tetra of the Fluval Edge was transferred to the 20g; the Fluval Edge is now home to 6 new galaxy rasbora and 10 red cherry shrimp, and a new 75 gallon tank is on the way - gonna take down the 20 gallon and run the Edge with the 75 gallon and use the 20 gallon as quarantine/backup as needed.

Thanks all for the encouragement and support!

 

Glad to hear it! Sounds like a fantastic plan to me.

 

That's great, I'm glad to hear everything worked out well.

 

HI all,

I have 3 female swordtails, 1 male swordtail, and a black molly in a 40 gallon tank and I have been noticing that they have been swimming with their dorsal fins tucked in to their body lately and I'm wondering why that might be? They still swim around casually, but they don't seem to be as exuberant. They do perk up when food is dropped into the tank, but other than that, they have kept their fins down. Any ideas of what that sign might be? Any suggestions would be great! Thanks!

Patrick

 

It might be bad water quality, I would test the water and do a partial change.

 

Clamped fins is usually a sign of stress and/or disease. If the tank is newly set up, make sure that you fully understand the nitrogen cycle. Test your water parameters regularly (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and pH). If you don't have an API master test kit yet, you really need to get one ASAP. Also, anytime your fish are showing signs of stress it is a good indication that you should probably do a 25-30% water change immediately and make sure you use a good quality water conditioner (like Seachem Prime) to remove the chlorine from the tap water.

Once you can rule out water quality issues, and you are sure that your tank is fully cycled, then we can consider other possible causes for this behavior... like parasites, infections and other diseases.

 

Everything is fine water quality wise, but it is a little hard.
My test results are as follows:
Nitrate: 10-20ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Hardness: 150ppm
Chlorine: 0ppm
Alkalinity: 80
pH: 7

The only thing I could see being an issue is the hardness or the alkalinity. Both of which I don't know how to fix? I will do a partial and see what's up. Any advice or tips are greatly appreciated.

 

For the water hardness i'd suggest a Water Softening Pillow, you can pick that up at your LFS, or you can try adding distilled water.

 

Don't fool with the hardness. It's more important that it's stable. Your swordtails and especially your mollies should be fine in your hardness. You will need to look into other possible causes.

 

Get more fish! they might be lonely/ bored!

 

No. If they're clamping their fins, at best you will stress them out and reduce their resistance to the problem, and at worst you'll make your new fish sick too and lose them all. Mollies and swordtails like some company but they are not schooling fish.

Just as a side note, my smaller molly was keeping her fin down because she was getting bullied by the largest one. Watch for fish being chased aggressively or into hiding.

 

I did a 3/4 water change and cleaning, so that might help. I'm still waiting to see if that perks them up. I was also wondering what a small amount of aquarium salt might do? I picked some up when my fish got sick to help cure the disease, but I haven't added any to the tank. Also, I have one male swordtail and I have noticed that he does occasionally pick on the rest of the the swordtails and mollies, but he doesn't seem to bother the silver dollars.

 

Aquarium salt is recommended as a stress reducer and it supposedly helps with your fish's immune system. I add the recommended amount of salt with every water change.

 

Aquarium salt is recommended as a stress reducer and it supposedly helps with your fish's immune system. I add the recommended amount of salt with every water change.

Sorry to disagree, but salt is actually an irritant to freshwater fish. The practice of adding salt to freshwater tanks under any circumstances is controversial. Some people do it occasionally for very specific issues, but many people say that salt should never be used in a freshwater tank. Even those who are experienced with the use of salt for medicinal purposes say that it has its benefits despite irritating the fish, and others say that there are better alternatives that do not have the disadvantages of salt treatments.

 

Yes, it's true that when used improperly, aquarium salt can be harmful to your fish, but when used as recommended it can be very beneficial in the treatment and prevention of certain types of infections and diseases. Aquarium salt can prevent and kill feshwater Ich for example. There are a lot of controversial subjects out there, and keeping/breeding fish will have it's share of trial and error. I have always used salt in my aquariums and my fish always look healthy and happy. We use it in just about every display aquarium in the pet shop I work in as well, and they have been there for 25 years so I trust their judgement. Of course you don't HAVE TO use Aquarium Salt but I have and will continue to recommend it.

 

Swordtails and Mollies actually like some salt in their water. Just don't overdo it.

 

I have a 40 gallon tank and I only put what they recommend for 10 gallons, so I should be good. Also, I'm planning on getting some Panda Corys and if everything goes well, some German Blue Rams. How do those guys do with salt? I heard that Corys are really sensitive to salt in the water and that it can be kind of dangerous, but I don't know anything about GBR.

 

I've only had my pandas for about 6 weeks so I'm no expert. I've never kept GBR's. I would look at several care sheets and determine the concensus for proper water parameters, salt-sensitivity, tankmates, feeding etc. Here's a couple of species profiles and care sheets to get you started.

Panda Cory

Blue Ram

 

I would not personally use salt with GBRs - and I'd like to get my hands on whoever recommended a molly for a 10 gallon tank -_-;;

Don't add anything until you have gotten your current stock back to normal.

 

Oh totally, I would never add fish until my tank was stable again. I've decided not to use salt at all because of the Silver Dollars I have, and my plans for GBR and Panda Corys. Thanks!

 

You're welcome