Disease or a bite out of her? Help

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Jahnikar, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. Jahnikar

    JahnikarValued MemberMember

    I have a female Endler Livebearer who has a bright red patch on her left side along her gills. It is only on the left side and was definitely not there yesterday. She moves so darn fast it's hard to get a good look at her but it almost looks like she's been bitten by something and a chunk of her scales are gone. She doesn't appear distressed but she definitely did not eat like normal tonight. She's swimming around the bottom of the tank rather than coming to the top and begging like normal.

    Tanks stats are:

    10 gallon with river rock, driftwood, java moss, terra cotta pot
    Inhabitants are approximately 25 Endler Livebearers, 3 Panda Cory Cats, Red Cherry Shrimp, one Mystery snail
    80* temp
    pH 8.2
    0 ammonia
    0 nitrite
    10 nitrate

    Last water change with Prime was yesterday. My filter intake is baffled with a piece of panty hose rubberbanded over it. Most recent changes were yesterday, when I added some new RCS and she just had fry about two days ago. I am feeding crushed NLS Thera + A and small chunks of Hikari algae wafers to the corys/inverts.

    The pic isn't the greatest quality but it's the best I could get considering how fast she is. It's actually much brighter red in person than it appears in the pic.

    image

    What is this and what should I do? I could net her out and move her into my 5 gallon, tho it's not done cycling. It's only inhabitants are 8 trumpet snails. If needed, I could move them out to medicate. The only medication I have on hand is Melafix but I could go to the LFS tomorrow morning if I need something else. Hopefully someone can help figure out what this is and what I need to do to help her.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2018
  2. toosie

    toosieWell Known MemberMember

    It is so hard to tell from the pic. I can see she is red by the gill but I can't tell what the cause might be.

    What are the parameters currently in the quarantine tank? Most times a nip or even a lot of different types of infections can be successfully treated with nothing more than excellent water conditions. If you would like to put her into quarantine in order to do this, remove a little cycled media from the main tank and place it into the quarantine tanks filter system. There is a good chance the cycled media will be able to take care of any toxins present from the cycling process in a matter of a few hours. You can test it once in a while to see how it makes out. Once it's done it's job, do a water change on the q tank and then move her over.

    If you can't for what ever reason use the q for her, just perform some extra water changes on the main tank to give her the best water you can to help the healing process. Soak the food in garlic juice prior to feeding because it has mild antibiotic properties and can help boost her immune system while she is recovering.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Jahnikar

    JahnikarValued MemberMember

    I decided to go ahead and move her to the 5 (I guess for now I'll call it the QT tank, even tho the snails are still in it). I managed to get a couple better pics. She's looking worse tonight :(

    You can see the redness better in this pic, but my camera still isn't showing how bright red it is.

    image

    She also appears to be missing scales now. There are spots all across her back and some spots on her sides where the irridescence of her scales seems like it's been rubbed off. You can see it on the top of her back and around her eye in this pic.

    image

    I've got the QT tank sitting at 81* right now, should I raise or lower the temp any or just stay consistant? The tank she came from was the same temp. I didn't have any spare filter media to move over, but I squeezed some "filter juice" from the 10 gallon's filter pad into the QT tank. I'm hoping it's enough to really get the cycle kick-started, but I'll be monitoring it very closely. Should I hold off on meds still or start some since she's looking more damaged?
     




    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2018
  4. toosie

    toosieWell Known MemberMember

    I'd very slowly lower the temp down to about 74F. This looks suspiciously like a bacterial infection. Possibly even columnaris. The lower temp will help slow the infection. I'd do a minimum of a 5 day treatment of Minocycline (Maracyn II).

    Good luck.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Jahnikar

    JahnikarValued MemberMember

    Oh my, should I treat only her or dose the main tank also? Is maracyn II safe with inverts and scaleless fish? I have cherry shrimp, panda Cory catfish and a mystery snail in the main tank. So far this female is the only fish showing any sign of disease but most of my fry are so small I doubt I'd be able to see anything on them. Thank you so much for your help toosie
     




  6. toosie

    toosieWell Known MemberMember

    You're very welcome.

    I would just treat her in a quarantine tank. Maracyn II is safe for scaleless fish. Shrimp and snails?? Not too sure. I think snails can handle it but I'll see if I can help you find out about that just in case it does become necessary to treat the main tank. If other fish do start to show symptoms then it will be best to treat the entire tank but I never like to do that unless absolutely necessary. For now I would prefer to treat this as an isolated case.

    If you have ammonia or nitrite readings in the q tank, it would be best to do enough water changes to bring those levels down to 0 as it takes prior to starting the treatment.

    Edit: Maracyn II is non toxic to invertebrates. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2012
  7. OP
    OP
    Jahnikar

    JahnikarValued MemberMember

    Thanks! I got some Maracyn II and started dosing her in the QT tank. Its gonna be annoying trying to do doses of half-packets for the next 4 days. Dosing is based on 10 gallons, she's in a 5 gal :0/ On the plus side tho, the 5 gallon appears to be cycled!

    So far she's still the only one showing any signs of illness. I really hope this is an isolated case. Something I noticed though, she poops a LOT. I'm going to fast her tonight, unless that's a bad idea while she's sick?
     
  8. toosie

    toosieWell Known MemberMember

    Nope, nothing wrong with fasting her. If dividing the contents of the package is a pain, you can take a glass measuring cup and rinse it really well with hot water to make sure no soap or grease of any kind is on it, then measure a cup of dechlorinated tap water or tank water into it and dissolve the contents of the package in there. That way you can pour out half a cup each day into the tank which will give you an accurate dosage of the antibiotic. The first dose I believe will require 1 full package and then 1/2 of a package every day after that.

    Yeay!! on a cycled Q tank!
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Jahnikar

    JahnikarValued MemberMember

    That's a brilliant idea! Thank you!
     
  10. toosie

    toosieWell Known MemberMember

    You're welcome.

    Hope the treatment goes well.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Jahnikar

    JahnikarValued MemberMember

    Great news: she seems to be doing much better already! The redness has faded quite a bit and her scales look more normal. She also seems much less freaked out by being in the new tank. I'm so relieved!
     
  12. toosie

    toosieWell Known MemberMember

    That sounds promising! Keep us posted!
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Jahnikar

    JahnikarValued MemberMember

    Final dose was today and she is MUCH better! I think tomorrow I'll start moving the other girls in with her. She definitely doesn't like being alone, the poor thing :( Thank you so much for all your help Toosie!
     
  14. toosie

    toosieWell Known MemberMember

    You are very welcome! I'm glad it worked out for her. I would hold off moving the other girls in with her for another .... 5 days if you can. Just give her a little extra time to completely recouperate.

    Tomorrow you will need to do a 25% water change and add some fresh activated carbon to the filter to remove the medications. This is another reason adding the others tomorrow wouldn't be good because they would have to adjust to fairly high levels of antibiotic. The fish you have been treating has been getting used to the medication increases over the past 5 days, but it could be like a sudden over dose to others.

    EDIT: I should also ask you how many other girls you have? The 5G may not have a very stong cycle at the moment and the last thing you need right now is ammonia or nitrite spikes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  15. OP
    OP
    Jahnikar

    JahnikarValued MemberMember

    Ah very good points! I will definitely hold off on moving any of the other girls until the meds are out. How long should I leave the carbon in? I'm actually moving juvenile females and fry into this tank (there are approximately 20 of them, tho several will soon be going to a new home) so should I move 2-3 in and then wait a week before moving another 2-3? I definitely don't want to overload the bacteria since I was so lucky to get it to instant-cycle to begin with.
     
  16. toosie

    toosieWell Known MemberMember

    Yes, 2 or 3 at a time will be ok. I usually recommend waiting 2 weeks in between additions. If you try to do it too quickly you will have to watch your parameters closely. If a spike occurs, immediately adding more seeded media should help.

    I'm not sure how many juvies there are as compared to fry, but that is a lot of little bodies for a 5G. I'm glad you have homes for some.

    I'd run the activated carbon for 2 or 3 days. You can leave it in place for 3 to 4 weeks if you choose, and then remove it, but if you only want to use it long enough to remove the medications, I think 2 or 3 days should be enough.
     
  17. Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    Yay on a good recovery!
     




  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice