Discus With Infected Gills - Please Watch This Video...

Cold&warm
  • #1
Hello!

She has 2 young discus fish with infected gills, a third young discus has died suddenly.

Could it have anything to do with the white worm in the vid? What is it?

The video can be watched/will exist for about 6 days. One has to click the above link and then on "vid_20180614_170105.mp4"

Many thanks in advance!
 
BraedonB
  • #2
sorry, can't access video
 
Adriifu
  • #3
Video doesn't load. What size is the tank? Can we get pictures instead? What are the parameters? Does she use RODI water? What does this white worm look like? Are there any other symptoms? Kind of sounds like gill flukes, ammonia burn, or a possible parasite.
 
BraedonB
  • #4
Yeah, gull flukes were my first thought w/o any info.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
Thanks to both for trying.

It takes my computer a few minutes after I click "vid_20180614_170105.mp4", but it does work.
I cannot upload it from my PC, the site says it's too large.

My friend sent me a picture but one does not see the white worm/parassite: in the video it can only be seen when it starts moving. She said it floated on the water - and caught and filmed it in a thin plastic container. According to her it made "convulsing movements" and "moved like a snake".
Length: about 0.5 cm/0.2 inch.
The picture does not copy and paste.
I'll send a message and hopefully get something more useful tomorrow, now it is 22:50.
She had two discus fish left after one died in a 120L/30 gal tank.
Since a few days she has a larger tank for the Symphysodon. It came with other young discus fish, 5 if I remember correctly.
I do not know tank size - she is some 1000 miles away, in Germany.
I do not know if the new tank came with RODI, the old one had none.
I'll ask about parameters.
The worm is very thin but long for its diameter. White worms and grindals are sturdier. In the video it moves straight ahead like an earth worm does.

Would you have the scientific name of gill flukes? That would make it easier to find the German name.
 
coralbandit
  • #6
Gill flukes ; Dactylogyrus
Flukes ; Gyrodactylus
Good luck.
 
Adriifu
  • #7
Dactylogyrus (common name: Gill Fluke)

Can you ask your friend all the questions I asked you?
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
Dactylogyrus (common name: Gill Fluke)

Can you ask your friend all the questions I asked you?
You bet!
I write now, although I doubt that she is still awake. Not impossible, though. She is obviously very upset about the whole emergency in her tanks. Maybe she is in front of her computer trying to figure things out.
Thanks to you both for your help.
 
Adriifu
  • #9
You bet!
I write now, although I doubt that she is still awake. Not impossible, though. She is obviously very upset about the whole emergency in her tanks. Maybe she is in front of her computer trying to figure things out.
Thanks to you both for your help.
No problem! For now, I'd suggest daily 50% water changes and immediate manual removal of any worms.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
No problem! For now, I'd suggest daily 50% water changes and immediate manual removal of any worms.
Thank you. I forwarded your message. She has not answered yet.

She mentioned how much this second tank would cost new. I did some googeling, assuming that it is the same brand as the 30gal, which seems to be common in Germany.
It might be a 120 gallon. Daily 50% water changes is quite a couple of buckets..
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
Video doesn't load. What size is the tank? Can we get pictures instead? What are the parameters? Does she use RODI water? What does this white worm look like? Are there any other symptoms? Kind of sounds like gill flukes, ammonia burn, or a possible parasite.
New info:
No other worms than the one caught has been spotted.
The water seems to remain murky.
She is about to buy a test kit for water parameters and did not specify what the test strips she used until now indicate.
She uses distilled water to regulate pH. A reverse(d) osmosis water plant/apparatus is due next week.
She is going to do another water change.
 
Adriifu
  • #12
New info:
No other worms than the one caught has been spotted.
The water seems to remain murky.
She is about to buy a test kit for water parameters and did not specify what the test strips she used until now indicate.
She uses distilled water to regulate pH. A reverse(d) osmosis water plant/apparatus is due next week.
She is going to do another water change.
Okay. When you say murky, do you mean kind of cloudy and white? This may be a bacteria bloom, which leads me to believe that there's ammonia in the tank, it's not cycled, and the fish are suffering from ammonia burns. I would really suggest preparing for fish like these before adding them to a tank. They're very sensitive. I also believe they need a much larger tank, but maybe 75 gallon Discus Tank can help with that.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
Okay. When you say murky, do you mean kind of cloudy and white? This may be a bacteria bloom, which leads me to believe that there's ammonia in the tank, it's not cycled, and the fish are suffering from ammonia burns. I would really suggest preparing for fish like these before adding them to a tank. They're very sensitive. I also believe they need a much larger tank, but maybe 75 gallon Discus Tank can help with that.
Exactly, mildly cloudy and - I guess- whitish. The opposite of crystal clear.
The ammonia thing sounds scary.
As soon as I have more detailed information on tank size and water parameters I'll let you know.
 
Adriifu
  • #14
Exactly, mildly cloudy and - I guess- whitish. The opposite of crystal clear.
The ammonia thing sounds scary.
As soon as I have more detailed information on tank size and water parameters I'll let you know.
All right.
Tips for Cycling Your New Aquarium Getting Your Fish Tank Up and Running with Minimal Headaches


Here's some more information on how to cycle a tank and what ammonia is.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
Thank you.

I just discovered this info in my inbox:
KH: 5
pH: 7,2
NH4: 0,05
NO2: 0,1 - due to the food [overfeeding?]
NO3: 80 - due to feeding bovine heart
Tomorrow she'll do a water change.

The tank is a 240 liter / 63 gal (my assumptions were somewhat too optimistic).
 
Adriifu
  • #16
I just discovered this info in my inbox:
KH: 5
pH: 7,2
NH4: 0,05
NO2: 0,1 - due to the food [overfeeding?]
NO3: 80 - due to feeding bovine heart
Tomorrow she'll do a water change.

The tank is a 240 liter / 63 gal (my assumptions were somewhat too optimistic).
All right. The ammonia and nitrites are too high. They should both be at 0 ppm, meaning that the tank isn't cycled. Your nitrates are also way too high. They should be under 20 ppm. I would really suggest performing a water change today. Daily water changes, probably 50%. Use Seachem Prime to detoxify the ammonia and nitrites. I believe 63-gallons is okay, but hopefully the person I tagged can add onto that.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #17
All right. The ammonia and nitrites are too high. They should both be at 0 ppm, meaning that the tank isn't cycled. Your nitrates are also way too high. They should be under 20 ppm. I would really suggest performing a water change today. Daily water changes, probably 50%. Use Seachem Prime to detoxify the ammonia and nitrites. I believe 63-gallons is okay, but hopefully the person I tagged can add onto that.
The water change will be done later today. It's 6 hours later here than in Florida. But I think many people do not work on Saturdays in Germany, so it could be a matter of not too many hours.

It would be great also to receive feedback from an experienced discus fish owner.
 
Adriifu
  • #18
The water change will be done later today. It's 6 hours later here than in Florida. But I think many people do not work on Saturdays in Germany, so it could be a matter of not too many hours.

It would be great also to receive feedback from an experienced discus fish owner.
Yes, I'm hoping they'll answer. Discus-Tang Here's another one that may know something.
 
Discus-Tang
  • #19
Yes, I'm hoping they'll answer. Discus-Tang Here's another one that may know something.
I don't actually keep discus, my name is just a play on words

Looking at the video, I believe it's too big to be detritus, which leads me to believe it's a fluke. Since they are parasitical, it would die without a host. Did it die in the cup?
 
Adriifu
  • #20
I don't actually keep discus, my name is just a play on words

Looking at the video, I believe it's too big to be detritus, which leads me to believe it's a fluke. Since they are parasitical, it would die without a host. Did it die in the cup?
Yeah, I was worried about that. You saw the video?
 
Discus-Tang
  • #21
Adriifu
  • #22
Nice. It wouldn't load for me. Mind taking a screenshot of the fish or something?
 
Discus-Tang
  • #23
Nice. It wouldn't load for me. Mind taking a screenshot of the fish or something?
It was just the worm. But here you go anyway:

Screen Shot 2018-06-16 at 9.08.46 am.png
 
Discus-Tang
  • #25
Adriifu
  • #26
I don't think so.
Hmm. I thought I read somewhere that they were. I guess not. On one website it says that they're 2 mm long.

Do the fish show these symptoms, OP?
Source:

Behavior

Fish will appear lethargic, and swimming will become intermittent as the fish will tire very easily. Breathing at the surface, or just stationary "hanging" at the surface will be observed, as the fish try's to obtain sufficient oxygen when the gills are badly infested.

Fins.
Fins can become clamped and/or ragged . Often small spots of blood may be observed at the base of the fins.

Body
Lesions may become apparent on the body as well as excessive mucous. Colors of the fish become "faded" in appearance.

Gills
Gills will usually become protuberant and usually are paler than normal. Excess slime can easily be observed.

Skin
Areas of hemorrhaging can be observed as well as ulcers, which typically have a circular shape. A slime can be observed over the body in advanced cases.
 
Discus-Tang
  • #27
Hmm. I thought I read somewhere that they were. I guess not. On one website it says that they're 2 mm long.

Do the fish show these symptoms, OP?
Source:

Behavior

Fish will appear lethargic, and swimming will become intermittent as the fish will tire very easily. Breathing at the surface, or just stationary "hanging" at the surface will be observed, as the fish try's to obtain sufficient oxygen when the gills are badly infested.

Fins.
Fins can become clamped and/or ragged . Often small spots of blood may be observed at the base of the fins.

Body
Lesions may become apparent on the body as well as excessive mucous. Colors of the fish become "faded" in appearance.

Gills
Gills will usually become protuberant and usually are paler than normal. Excess slime can easily be observed.

Skin
Areas of hemorrhaging can be observed as well as ulcers, which typically have a circular shape. A slime can be observed over the body in advanced cases.
Quick, add a source!
 
Adriifu
  • #28
Quick, add a source!
Haha, I got nailed last time because I forgot to add the source to a quote.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #29
I don't actually keep discus, my name is just a play on words

Looking at the video, I believe it's too big to be detritus, which leads me to believe it's a fluke. Since they are parasitical, it would die without a host. Did it die in the cup?
Hello.
You managed to open the video??

Adriifu and ButchB could not. I wonder if it has to do with your location.
As for your name, I think it suggests a dynasty that reigned many centuries ago in a country crowded with mountains .
 
Discus-Tang
  • #30
Yeah, I opened the vid.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
I don't actually keep discus, my name is just a play on words

Looking at the video, I believe it's too big to be detritus, which leads me to believe it's a fluke. Since they are parasitical, it would die without a host. Did it die in the cup?
I will ask right now.
My friend mentioned being exhausted by stress. So I do not expect an immediate answer. I would be distressed too, if my dear fishies suffered and died like that.

I guess that at 2 a.m. most Germans are fast asleep.

I got 3 multies and 3 sparkling guramis still to be introduced into their tanks. The pH here is 8.5 and that of the shop about 7.2, so I'm taking it slow-drip by drip.
Thanks for your input [banyak terima kasih]. The Trichopsis pumila are especially tiny about half an inch. I wonder if they already make the sound that I bought them for.
 
Discus-Tang
  • #32
I guess that at 2 a.m. most Germans are fast asleep.

I got 3 multies and 3 sparkling guramis still to be introduced into their tanks. The pH here is 8.5 and that of the shop about 7.2, so I'm taking it slow-drip ny drip.
Thanks for your input [banyak terima kasih]. The Trichopsis pumila are especially tiny about half an inch. I wonder if they already make the sound that I bought them for.
I love shelldwellers If I had known I had the room, I would've got them.

Btw I love your profile pic fish. Is it a killi?
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #33
Neolamprologus multifasciatus is the smallest shelldweller and also the smallest cichlid. They need little space/room. I have 3 juveniles in 40 liters of water. They form colonies: mum, dad, uncles, aunts, grandparents, even older fry take care of the newborn.

IMG_4450.JPG
My profile pic fish I got by mistake. It is a Blue Gularis. Thanks to this forum I know that it is the American-bred dwarf red type of Fundulopanchax sjoestedti. It still grows to 10cm/4 inches. The others can reach 6-7 inches... I had ordered 4 Aphyosemion bivittatum and got four of these.
Blue Gularisses are (as far as I know) the largest existing killies. Beautiful but voracious, they even eat fellow fish that you would not believe fit into their mouths.
Terribly aggressive. The avatar fish was (is) the strongest one. He used to bite scales and skin out of the two females. and reduced his twin brother to a ragged banner.
Keeping them in a species tank is mandatory and ... take the cover off only for feeding. Three of the four jumped out of their tanks in the blink of an eye.
They are fun though. They'll surprise you by biting in your arm. You can lift them in the palm of your hand: they will not shy away. The ones I got - colours vary - have this uniquely beautiful light blue and also a gorgeous design on the lower part of their throat and torpedo-shaped body.

The first of the sparkling guramis ventures out of the plastic bag..

IMG_4455.JPG
Small as they are, they already have beautiful colors. They're also very fast and lively. Good to know that they are excellent jumpers.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #34
Update of today June 16th.

The worm is still living and ... has given birth !! My friend found 2 worms in the container.
The gills of 1 of her discus fish are no longer swollen.
1 of her fish is visibly recovering.
 
Adriifu
  • #35
Update of today June 16th.

The worm is still living and ... has given birth !! My friend found 2 worms in the container.
The gills of 1 of her discus fish are no longer swollen.
1 of her fish is visibly recovering.
That's great. Keep up the water changes and get that tank cycled.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #36
How long does it take to cycle a tank?
Must I tell her to use Seachem Stability?


Sometimes - don't beat me - in my own tanks I do a 100% water change and my fish continue to live happily. They're not discus fish, though: Paradise fish, Blue Gularis, Cardinals.
 
Adriifu
  • #37
How long does it take to cycle a tak/
Have I to tell her to use Seachem Stability?
If you start from scratch, usually a month or so. Seachem Stability helps, but I would just suggest using Seachem Prime.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #38
Well, in that case I guess my tanks pass the test. The glass/ceramic rings have been in the filters (much) longer than that.
I always use Seachem Prime at water changes.
 
Adriifu
  • #39
Well, in that case I guess my tanks pass the test. The glass/ceramic rings have been in the filters (much) longer than that.
I always use Seachem Prime at water changes.
That's great It's always good to make sure with a test kit, though.
 
Cold&warm
  • Thread Starter
  • #40
Hmm. I thought I read somewhere that they were. I guess not. On one website it says that they're 2 mm long.

Do the fish show these symptoms, OP?
Source:

Behavior

Fish will appear lethargic, and swimming will become intermittent as the fish will tire very easily. Breathing at the surface, or just stationary "hanging" at the surface will be observed, as the fish try's to obtain sufficient oxygen when the gills are badly infested.

Fins.
Fins can become clamped and/or ragged . Often small spots of blood may be observed at the base of the fins.

Body
Lesions may become apparent on the body as well as excessive mucous. Colors of the fish become "faded" in appearance.

Gills
Gills will usually become protuberant and usually are paler than normal. Excess slime can easily be observed.

Skin
That's great It's always good to make sure with a test kit, though.

Areas of hemorrhaging can be observed as well as ulcers, which typically have a circular shape. A slime can be observed over the body in advanced cases.

23:41 in Italy = 17:41 in Florida and (I guess 05:41 or 06:41 in Sydney)
I apologize for not answering these questions, this is one of the posts that appeared on my screen only this evening, not in real time.
And even so, I did not realize until now this one is directed to me: I do not know the meaning of OP.

I will send the questions to the tank-and-fish owner.
- She said something about clamped fins.
- As I wrote earlier this evening 1 fish is getting better with his gills.

I'll communicate the answers as soon as I get them.

Thank you.

Edit: I thought I sent this 2 hours ago. Either something does not work in my computer or in my memory.

That's great It's always good to make sure with a test kit, though.
I have measured the Nitrites with a Nitrites-only test kit ever since, a few months after I got my first tank, I was told that test strips which I used are inaccurate. The funny thing is that the outcome is always identical: 0,05 mg/liter. Also fresh tap water measures 0,05 mg/liter.
 

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