Discus sulking?

Hello
I have just recently gained an interest in keeping Discus fish, after having various tropicals for about 6 years.
I have a 180ltr tank with fine gravel substrate, eheim external filter and various live plants
Temp is 30 degrees
Ph is 6.8
Nitrate, Nitrite and ammonia are all 0
I do a 20-30% water change 3x a week
They are fed on discus pellets, tropical fish flake and blod worm with added garlic and vitamins
About 2 months ago I purchased 3 discus (red snake skin, snow white and cobalt) I was told in the shop that I needed three minimum because they sulk. Now the red snake skin was fine for a few weeks but then began to go off his food and hide whenever anyone went near the tank. I went back to the shop to ask their help, I was told to raise the temp as I had it at 28, and to raise the ph which was at 6. I did this and still I had sulking. To cut a long story short he died about a week later.
I went back to the shop who blamed my water for the death of my beautiful fish. I know that this wasn't the fact as I check my water weekly and there was nothing wrong with it.
I have just replaced my lost fish with another blue cobalt but now have the stress that my first blue cobalt has started sulking and hiding away, he does come out at feeding time and has a nosey round but only has little if anything to eat.
Can someone put my mind at rest and tell me if Discus do have a tendancy to "sulk" because i'm getting worried about him, he's my favourite!!! :'(

 

Are they juvies? Discus are schooling fish and do better is groups of 6 or more. I don't claim to be an expert but I have read up a lot about them and have still managed to kill or stunt a fair number. I am giving up after this lot I am growing out now. The minimum requirement is usually recommended as 6 in a 55G bare bottomed tank at 30 degrees for juvies. Adults will handle 28 and planted. Blood worms are also frowned on but the discus nuts. Black worms get a better rap.

For more info you can't go past

 

Welcome to Fish Lore!!!

You have quite a low pH reading. What type of water are you using? Is it your tap water, RO, etc?

Your info says you aren't using any test kits, but your post indicates you are. What do you use for testing equipment, and what tests do you perform? If you are using a liquid test kit that has a bottom reading of 6, your pH could very easily be even lower. The reason this concerns me is because a low pH level often indicates the lack of buffering capacity. The buffering capacity of your water can be tested with a GH/KH test kit. The GH (general hardness) lets you know how hard or soft your water is. The KH (carbonate hardness) lets you determine your buffering capacity. The buffer helps to determine the level of pH as well as it's stability. Without enough KH, pH can and usually will plummet at some point in time.

GH/KH levels also help to indicate the amount of electrolytes that are available for fish health. Water can be too soft even for Discus fish. They require a certain amount of minerals present in the water to keep their bodies functioning properly. If the body is weakening, the fish will show signs of stress, sickness and even death, so although your water may test fine for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, it may still be the underlying issue that is causing your fish's symptoms.

If you are not already testing GH/KH along with your pH, I would highly recommend it. Don't try adjusting the pH with chemicals because this will not fix the issue, and will cause your fish further problems. There are a few things that can be done that will be safer for your fish than chemicals, as well as more stable. Once you let us know the type of water you are using for the Discus, and are able to test these other water parameters I have mentioned, we will be more equipped to help you determine the best course of action if any is required.

As claudicles has already mentioned, Discus do prefer to be in a larger group than you currently have, so this may also be relevant. Discus also do best when kept warm. It is usually suggested their temp be maintained between 82F and 86F while providing good oxygenation without too much current.

 

Wow, thanks guys,
That's certainly given me a lot more to think about!! I have been to a breeder and bought three more today hoping this will make him a little happier!!
I use a chemical testing for my water, off the top of my head I can't remember which but it only has the testing kit for the ones I have stated!
I have no idea what the hardness of the water is round here, so I guess its another trip to the aquarists!
I have heard that having bog wood in a tank can affect the ph, I have been treating with ph+ but it doesn't seem to be going up much. The people in the shop where I bought them from said putting a shell in the water can help to bring it up, which I have also done but still no luck!!!
Oh yeah... the bar for the filter which puts the water back in the tank is facing down so there is little chance of a current to disturb them and I have put the temp up to 30 degrees! Heres hoping I have less sulking now!!
The things we do for fish!!!

 

PH+ can be quite harmful to your inhabitants. It doesn't provide a stable pH. It increases ph very rapidly, and also lets it fall just as fast. Crushed coral can help you achieve a more stable ph. You add just a little to a media bag and place it in your filter, wait several days, and if you need to add more, more can be added. It's slow acting unlike ph+, which is easier on the fish, and will help you maintain a more stable ph.

I think most of your fish will accept the warmer temp without too much problem, the only ones I have some concern with is the Corys and Angels. The higher temps may shorten their life spans, so that is something you need to consider.

Hmmm, maybe you'd be interested in a tank upgrade? You have a lot of fish now in your 180 liter (50G), I'm afraid you may start running into issues if you don't.

Bog wood can indeed lower ph levels, the buffer (KH) will help determine how much. If KH it is very low, it will let the acids that leach from the wood, lower pH quite a bit.

 

How is your Discus breathing? There might not be enough O2 in the water, you might need to add an airstone in the tank. Having higher temp with release O2 out the water faster.
I had problem with feeding my Discus too at first then I switch to hikarI frozen Bloodworm and they go nuts for it. Here is a good read for planted tank. It help a lot for me

 

Just a warning about blood worms. I have never seen a nutritional breakdown on them but serious discus breeders brand them junk food. The fish love them but nutritionally they are inadequate. Beef heart is prefered. To grow well discus need a high protein varied diet.

pH of 6.8 should be fine for discus, in fact perfect. They will even handle 6. As Toosie said the problem with a reading of 6 on the API kit is that that is the lowest it will read so it may be lower. There are other kits that read lower. What is your tap water pH? It is unlikely to be that low so your best bet for keeping your pH up a bit would be inreasing the amount and frequency of your water changes.

 

here is the break down for you for bloodworm.

The protein is not as high as beef heart but it don't stink up my water so I am sticking with it.
Here is the beef heart

 

Cool. A lot of what passes into common practise has no good reason and I have to admit I am too lazy to reasearch all of it.

 

Thank you for the valuable info everyone!!
My Ph is a little higher now, I have resorted to doing a water change a bit more frequently but with less water taken out, just to remove the uneaten food. I have two air stones in now instead of one, I have made my own beef heart, will use the BW as a treat rather than sustinance and my fish seem to be a lot happier!!!!!
Oh and Toosie I would looooooove a tank upgrade but the other half isn't into fish and thinks they are too much effort, he's told me i'm not allowed a bigger one!!!!!

 

LOL, funny how that other half can ruin our fun. Oh well, I guess he just doesn't want to feel like he is living in a fish tank maybe.

Best of luck with your discus!! Hope they are acting happier.

 

HI all
Sorry to be a pain, I have changed the diet of my discus, they now have beef heart and tetra prima plus they also seem to have started sneaking the flake I put in for the angels!! For a while they were all doing great, however I now have two sulking and they haven't eaten for a few weeks now, they are getting rather thin and i'm a bit worried about them! As far as I can see they aren't being bullied and one does seem to be having a sniff at food but isn't eating it!! I just despair! I love my fish and the rest of the gang now eat out of my hand which I find fascinating to watch especially as everything I seem to have read say they are shy fish and will hide away from humans!! But I digress, my water ph is between 6.9/7 and my nitrate and ammonia are 0, I do water changes twice a week, these are the fussiest fish I have ever kept but they seem to be worth it.... when they eat!!!!!

 

Most probably internal infection. Use metro 5 mg per liter of water. Dose twice daily 50 percent water change before every doze