Disaster setting up new BiOrb tank - 12 fish dead in 4 days

Sorry this is long...

We bought the BiOrb Flow Mcr Aquarium Black 30L (rectangle one and not round) and BiOrb Decor Set 30L Stone Garden online 4 weeks ago and got it all set up with a heater to have freshwater fish.

After 2 weeks conditioning we took a water and gravel sample to a local fish shop near us to be buy fish. They told us the PH was dangerously high and said the BiOrb gravel is causing it. I'm in Australia and we have some of the hardest and chemical water apparently. They said the BiOrb gravel is not good for our water and they sold us a more common one in Australia (Aqua One Decorative Gravel) and PH down. We left, changed the gravel that night and used the PH down.

Returned 2 days later with a new water sample which was good (ph still a little high but told to use a bit more ph down) and bought 18 fish of different varities - mostly small neons. We went with their recommendation on what to buy. Now 5 days later, 12 have died in total and the most of the others are not looking healthy.

Talking to the fish shop we bought the fish from and doing what they suggested, we've done 2 x 50% water changes but the PH and ammonia keeps creeping up during the day. Each day we have found more dead fish inside.

The fish shop we bought the fish from has kept blaming BiOrb and the online store for selling us toxic gravel and ornaments.

I initially contacted BiOrb but did not hear back until a couple hours ago that has now said "To allow the filter to do its job, you do need to use the ceramic media (AKA Alfagrog) that is supplied with the biOrb, as it is part of the filtration. Any other type of gravel wont allow the filter to draw in the waste and it draws the waste from the bottom of the tank".

I've also done more research and now know BiOrbs are not great in general but the fish shop should never have sold us this many fish. But also based on what BiOrb has said about the gravel, it now sounds like the gravel we were sold and been using has stopped the filter from working correctly - which may explain why the PH and ammonia keeps creeping up.

I guess my question is, have I finally worked out what's gone wrong?

1. BiOrbs are not great
2. Sold too many fish
3. Sold wrong gravel that stopped filter from working correctly

I want to give the BiOrb another go. So now I'll need to swap the gravel over again. Should I do a full water change? Do you think there is any hope of our remaining fish to survive or should I put them out of their misery and basically start everything from scratch?

Thank you

 

Sorry this is long...

We bought the BiOrb Flow Mcr Aquarium Black 30L (rectangle one and not round) and BiOrb Decor Set 30L Stone Garden online 4 weeks ago and got it all set up with a heater to have freshwater fish.

After 2 weeks conditioning we took a water and gravel sample to a local fish shop near us to be buy fish. They told us the PH was dangerously high and said the BiOrb gravel is causing it. I'm in Australia and we have some of the hardest and chemical water apparently. They said the BiOrb gravel is not good for our water and they sold us a more common one in Australia (Aqua One Decorative Gravel) and PH down. We left, changed the gravel that night and used the PH down.

Welcome to Fishlore!

What exactly are the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH levels of your tank? What is the pH of your source water?

Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle?

 

Welcome to fishlore!

I don’t think the gravel is the issue - it sounds like you didn’t cycle the tank, so I’d certainly recommend reading up about the nitrogen cycle as Dunk has suggested.

Also, 30 litres doesn’t give you much room for fish - 18 neons is far too many for a tank that size and they would need a bigger tank in any event. There are fish that could work in a tank that size though, just not many.

 

Welcome to Fishlore!

What do you mean by 2 weeks conditioning?

Yeah I would say they sold too many fish at once and the tank was not cycled. Do you have your own test kit to check your water? If not That would be a good next purchase so you dont have to rely on someone else.

 

Welcome to Fishlore!

What exactly are the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH levels of your tank? What is the pH of your source water?

Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle?

Thank you for your reply. I found out about the nitrogen cycle yesterday but none of this was mentioned from the fish shop. When we had the water tested at a different fish shop 2 days ago, PH was around 8, ammonia 1, nitrite .5, nitrate 40. We kept using PH down to 7ish in the morning but then we would find it closer to 8 after work.

What do you mean by 2 weeks conditioning?

I didn't word that well. Just filled the fish tank, used conditioner, waited a few days, used bacteria liquid and left it like that for a week before getting fish.

 

Thank you for your reply. I found out about the nitrogen cycle yesterday but none of this was mentioned from the fish shop. When we had the water tested at a different fish shop 2 days ago, PH was around 8, ammonia 1, nitrite .5, nitrate 40. We kept using PH down to 7ish in the morning but then we would find it closer to 8 after work.

I didn't word that well. Just filled the fish tank, used conditioner, waited a few days, used bacteria liquid and left it like that for a week before getting fish.

Most of us have learned a hard lesson or 4 in this hobby at some point! Some fish shops are great at selling fish and tank supplies, but not so much at giving customers accurate advice and direction.

Let’s start with the cycling process. . . As StarGirl suggested, you should get yourself a reliable test kit. For fish-in cycles, I suggest daily testing and doing water changes (maybe daily) to keep the combined level of ammonia and nitrites at or below 0.50 ppm.

Now that you have an ammonia source in the tank (fish), the cycling process has started, but can take 4 - 6 weeks to be complete. Before you added fish to the tank and assuming you weren’t adding another source of ammonia, the cycling process would not have started.

More to come on your pH level, but does this make sense so far?

 

More to come on your pH level, but does this make sense so far?

Yes, makes perfect sense. I'll get a better testing kit after work today.

 

Yes, makes perfect sense. I'll get a better testing kit after work today.

When you get it.. test your tap water right out of the faucet. Let a cup sit for 24 hours and test it again. These are the numbers we need to help with the pH issue or NON issue

Try to get a API freshwater master test kit if you can. The strips can be semi unreliable and dont have all the readings you need right now. Most members use this test and makes it a little easier to judge results with a familiar test.

 

Yes, makes perfect sense. I'll get a better testing kit after work today.

If it’s available to you, I’d suggest the API Master Test kit.

In addition to testing your tap pH as StarGirl suggested, test it for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates so we know what those levels are. If you know, I’d also be curious what the pH level was when your fish shop called it dangerously high.

As a general comment before we get more test results, most experienced fish keepers will advise against using chemicals to alter pH levels. There are some exceptions to this, but a stable pH is better for most fish than a fluctuating pH which is often caused by adding chemicals.

Post your test results here when you get them.

 

If you know, I’d also be curious what the pH level was when your fish shop called it dangerously high.

I actually took a photo but they didn't give it a number. They said it would have been caused from the BiOrb gravel - also shown in picture.

 

I had to look up the tank, I’ve heard of the brand name but wanted to visualize what you’re working with.
Best I can make out from the online description the tank comes with what is essentially a built in box filter, sponge and lift tube. The gravel or substrate the tank came with looks like it’s a porous stone (biomedia). Even if that doesn’t make much sense: it’s here in part so others wanting to help can visualize what the filtration on your tank is.

Do not stress too much about what may or may not have gone wrong. You are already in good hands in terms of cycling your tank. Good news even with the gravel you switched out, the core of your filter should still provide biological and mechanical filtration. Sponge filters of all shapes and sizes do.
Focus on your cycle and following cycle guru advice for now.

 

Yeah that looks like a tapped out low test to me. Could be higher for sure. My pH hangs out at 8.2. As Dunk2 said adding chemicals for a "perfect" fish pH level is not always possible. Most lfs will have the same pH as your tank. Test your water when you get fish also, right from the bag! You will be amazed. Maybe GlennO or ryanr will have some Aussie water info for you!

 

I purchased the master test kit. Here is a comparison between tap water from this morning (8 hours ago) and the water the fish are in.

PH and Amonia. Nitrite and Nitrate
1st tube is fresh water (8 hours ago) and next to it is the water the fish are in.

 

Maybe I'm stupid but I don't know what those pics represent. Ammonia can't read blue. Please clarify what we are looking at in each tube.

 

Sorry - I redid the tank with fresh water and replaced the gravel back to the BiOrb one since the gravel may have been causing some of the problems. I temporary moved the fish to another container and tested that water also (still in the same water which was originally in the tank)

So each side by side tube shows both the new water in the tank and the water with the fish.

First picture
Tube 1 - PH - fresh water
Tube 2 - PH - fish water
Tube 3 - Amonia - fresh water
Tube 4 - Amonia - fish water

Second picture
Tube 1 - Nitrite - fresh water
Tube 2 - Nitrite - fish water
Tube 3 - Nitrate - fresh water
Tube 4 - Nitrate - fish water

 

ok ty, your pH looks fine (around 7.4ish) and there's no nitrites or nitrates and about 0.5ppm ammonia in the fish tank water, all of which is pretty normal for a tank that has recently started cycling.

 

Just an update. Sadly 2 more fish died over the past 24 hours. Tested the tank water just then and these were the results: pH 7.6ish, Ammonia .5-1, Nitrate 0, Nitrate 5.

The attached is our tap water after 24 hours.

 

New uncycled tanks are dangerous for fish. Your fish have likely been poisoned by ammonia. Try to keep ammonia less than 0.5ppm by doing water changes as necessary until the tank is cycled. Preferably use Seachem Prime water conditioner. Have you read up on fish-in cycling? Here's one to start:

Fish In Nitrogen Cycle Simplified | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 414083

 

Just an update. Sadly 2 more fish died over the past 24 hours. Tested the tank water just then and these were the results: pH 7.6ish, Ammonia .5-1, Nitrate 0, Nitrate 5.

The attached is our tap water after 24 hours.

Your pH test result looks tapped out at 7.6. I’d use the high range pH bottle to test your tap again.

As GlennO said and as I suggested in post #6 above, you’ll need to do water changes to keep the combined level of ammonia and nitrites at or below 0.50 ppm. I agree with his suggestion that you use Prime if you’re not already using it.

Just an update. Sadly 2 more fish died over the past 24 hours. Tested the tank water just then and these were the results: pH 7.6ish, Ammonia .5-1, Nitrate 0, Nitrate 5.

The attached is our tap water after 24 hours.

See my comment above about your pH test result. I’d also test your tank again using the high range pH bottle.