Did I kill these fish?

I bought a 120 gallon tank, 2 Eheim 2217s, and a few barbs to start the tank cycling. Roughly a month later the tank is ready. A good friend sold his house and had to be out a month before he could be in his new house. He went to an apartment and his fish went in my tank. He had a 75 gallon overstocked with all kinds of cichlids. The tank seemed to be going through another cycle. I had been doing small(10-15gallons) water changes almost every day. 2 weeks ago, the water seemed to stabilize and tested great. Wednesday I put some crushed coral in my filter. Thursday, I come home from work and the fish are sucking for air. The nitrites spiked to 2 ppm. I did a 50% water change Thursday, and again Friday morning. The water has been testing good since Friday night. I have done small water changes adding AmQuel+, NovAqua, a small amount of aquarium salt, and a small amount of methylene blue. I have kept the water level lowered for extra splashing from the filter outlet. The fish don't seem to be getting better. They are not interested in food. I just lost a 3rd one tonight.

 

HI there Jeff,

Methylene Blue kills nitrifying bacteria (thus killing the cycle), and it's generally not added directly to a main display tank. If you did not remove the chemical media from the filter before adding the Methylene Blue, it's probably already been filtered out. However, Id do a 50% water change and test the water parameters. Let us know what your current pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels are after the big water change.

 

Very sad & stressful when trying to help a friend. I wish I knew a solution - I am sure some of the experts can offer advice to help save the others.

 

pH 7.8, ammonia .5, nitrites 0, nitrates 0

 

Going from a few barbs to a bunch of cichlids caused another cycle. As already mentioned, Methylene Blue can cause/prolong minI cycle.

AmQuel has been documented to cause PH crashes, be cautious with it.


The only solution for Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates is large water changes. In most situations 10-15% a day is not going to make enough of a difference.

Look at it this way, If I have 2ppm and I remove 15% of that what do I have left? 1.7ppm, now 24 hours later what do I have? Probably 3.5ppm... Another 15% reduction and I have 3ppm.

 

Mrjeff, water changes, water changes, and more water changes! 75% of your tanks volume and use Prime as your water conditioner to detox the ammo, nitrI and nitrate until you can get your tank under control. You took on too large of a bioload to fast and now may have killed off the majority of your BB with the meth blue treatment.

 

pH 7.8, ammonia .5, nitrites 0, nitrates 0

It looks like the cycle was lost. SInce that's the case, try to stay on top of daily water changes (at least 50%) for right now so you can keep the ammonia and nitrite levels as close to 0 ppm as possible.

Tell us what is happening with your fish (still stressing, are they eating? any visual sores, tatty looking fins, anything? Look really really close!). Let's make sure your fish are healthy, and then we can focus on helping you get that tank cycled again. It's very difficult if not impossible to medicate and cycle a tank at the same time.

 

I understand the bioload of the fish overwhelmed the water. It was kind of last minute, but it seemed to be the best decision. I was preparing the tank for a couple babies, not a lake of fish. Another dead fish last night had me frustrated. I still don't know why the nitrites spiked.

I did catch a few of them to put in a methylene blue dip bucket, but it seemed to be causing more damage(stress) chasing them around.

Obviously their colors have changed, but they still look fine. They are still stressed and sucking at the top. Beginning with last night's water change, they started swimming around and hiding like normal while adding water and about an hour after. They are still sucking for air while swimming. At that time, I did try to feed them a few pellets. While a few of them seemed interested, only 2 actually ate. We'll see what happens tonight...

 

Are the filters providing enough surface agitation so that there's plenty of oxygen in the water? If you could also provide us with a very specific list of fish and how many of each are in the tank, that would help. Let's try to figure out why some are having a hard time breathing (over crowding can sometimes cause this, so to rule it out I'm asking for the list).

 

I also would not feed them right now. They can go several days with no food and it will not hurt them, but less food = less waste = less ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.

 

I would add an air pump/air stone to increase the oxygen in the tank for the fish. Good luck!

 

I'm sorry you've lost some, but you didn't do it on purpose. We all make some mistakes (sometimes big ones) when starting off with fish. I understand you were trying to help a friend, and I applaud you for that, but you basically stocked too quickly. I made the same mistake with my 20 gallon, but I have fancy guppies and lost them all to an unrelated illness (both my nearby pet stores seem to be having a problem with this illness, I think it's a problem at the breeder's end) There's still hope, though, so get out there, do lots of WC, and add a good dose of Prime to the tank to detoxify ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate! On the bright side, they'll be less overstocked in a 120 than a 75, so that should make it a little easier than it might have been when he get his tank set back up.

Is he going to be taking the fish back when he's finished moving? If so, you can give him back a few fish at a time, and when you're done your tank will probably be cycled and all ready for fish.

I know cichlids prefer brackish water, so you might also make a post in the cichlids section of the forum for advice on care.

 

I know cichlids prefer brackish water, so you might also make a post in the cichlids section of the forum for advice on care.

Not entirely true. "Cichlid" is a very large family that actually encompasses over 1600 different species, mostly freshwater

While some cichlids do tolerate brackish - Cichlasoma festae (True Red Terror), Vieja maculicauda (Blackbelt Cichlid), and Nandopsis haitiensis (Black Nasty) come to mind, the majority prefer freshwater. The above listed fish are all large and AGGRESSIVE and would not do well in a heavily stocked tank.

Of course there are some that can truly adapt to brackish - Etroplus maculatus (Orange Chromide), Etroplus suratensis (Green Chromide), and Sarotherodon Melanotheron (Blackchin tilapia ) all come to mind

 

Ok, I now know SOME cichlids tolerate brackish water..... and holy bananas, Batman! 1600??? I'm going to vote we don't try to put all of them into the same tank 0_o

 

I also would not feed them right now. They can go several days with no food and it will not hurt them, but less food = less waste = less ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.

It is common that most animals will not eat when they are too stressed in some way. My tank is a prime example. If the fish start accepting food, they will have taken a big step in the right direction. To drop a few pellets in this tank is not feeding, but testing. 4 days ago, none of the fish wanted to eat. After another 40% water change last night, more were interested in food this morning.

 

Are the filters providing enough surface agitation so that there's plenty of oxygen in the water? If you could also provide us with a very specific list of fish and how many of each are in the tank, that would help. Let's try to figure out why some are having a hard time breathing (over crowding can sometimes cause this, so to rule it out I'm asking for the list).

I don't have a tester for oxygen in the water. Before I did a water change 2 nights ago, I syphoned out about out 15 gallons and then just dumped it back in the tank to see if the increased airation of the water is what helped them relax a little. They quickly returned to the top after the bucket was empty.

I'm not sure what each fish is. There are 2 large common plecos, a small albino pleco, a medium bumblebee, 2 cats, a large frontosa, a mix of other cichlids, and my small green phantom.

I would add an air pump/air stone to increase the oxygen in the tank for the fish. Good luck!

Air stones don't add much, if any, oxygen to a large tank. They work well in smaller tanks because there is a much smaller water surface area to disturb

 

They do make longer air stones that will work more effectively in a larger tank, if oxygenation is a concern, but if you're referring to the little round ones, no, I don't see that they would do much good in a 120.
Unfortunately, these sound like symptoms of lack of oxygen due to gill damage if they're immediately returning to the top after having a larger amount poured in. But hopefully if you get the ammonia levels and such down, the gills will heal.

 

Unfortunately, these sound like symptoms of lack of oxygen due to gill damage if they're immediately returning to the top after having a larger amount poured in. But hopefully if you get the ammonia levels and such down, the gills will heal.

That's what I had been thinking. They were better this morning. Only 2 were actually at the top, but all of their mouths were still active.

 

Well, if there are fewer hanging at the top, that's got to be a good sign, yeah?

 

I don't have a tester for oxygen in the water. Before I did a water change 2 nights ago, I syphoned out about out 15 gallons and then just dumped it back in the tank to see if the increased airation of the water is what helped them relax a little. They quickly returned to the top after the bucket was empty.

I'm not sure what each fish is. There are 2 large common plecos, a small albino pleco, a medium bumblebee, 2 cats, a large frontosa, a mix of other cichlids, and my small green phantom.



Air stones don't add much, if any, oxygen to a large tank. They work well in smaller tanks because there is a much smaller water surface area to disturb

From my understanding, keeping 2 common pleco in the same tank is generally not a good idea. That and you've got two of them in what is considered minimum tank size. Having said that I'm going to guess (hard to be specific without knowing what is exactly in the tank) that the tank is way over stocked. When the tank is overstocked there is a lot less oxygen in the water. If it were me Id rehome a lot of those. At least one of the pleco should be rehomed.

While it's true that a single air stone may not be of much use in your situation, a few bubble wands would definitely help. I've picked them up at WalMart (for cheap) with two wands per package. You can link them together so they'll run the length of the tank. TBH those should be a part of your aquatic medicine cabinet even if they're not used all of the time.

 

I agree with Mamajin, some bubble wands would help. If you think that oxygen levels are the problem then any oxygen added by an air stone or bubble wand is more oxygen then you currently have in the tank. Also, do you have any live plants? Hornwort and Anacharis are great easy growing plants that are known as being good oxygenators. They will help consume some of the CO2 put out by all those fish and replace it with some oxygen. The live plants will also help with your ammonia spike problem as well. Plants will suck up ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate; making your recycle process a bit easier. I think some live plants and bubble wands may help you a lot. Also, trying to figure out exactly how many fish you have and what breeds will help as well. Post some pics here on fishlore to help identify them.

 

All of the fish are swimming around like normal today. Some of them are moving their mouths just a little. Water before the water change tonight tested 7.8pH, 1ammonia, 0nitrites, 0nitrates. All of this is just in time for some of the fish to be moved to their new permanent home tomorrow. We have more time for this move, so we will be using it.
It's difficult to say whether or not the methylene blue helped at all. It certainly wrecked the bio cycle. 2 of the 3 fish that made it in to the dip bucket seemed better a little faster than the others, but just slightly.

 

Yeah, it would probably be good if you shifted them over 2 or 3 at a time, if possible. Since your friend moved and had the tank down for a month, he's going to have what amounts to a new setup.

 

Squatch, Welcome to Fish Lore!

I am moving your post to create a thread of its own to prevent hijacking this members thread. I'll post a link to your new thread here in just a moment and I'll send a link to your visitor messages too. I'll also post in your new thread.

Thanks! Give me just a minute.

Ken

Here is the link to your new thread:

 

Hey there! So I lost a Boseman Rainbow this morning, not that I'm surprised.

There had been some fighting between them this week and this one looked like he got a peck right at the gills, his right side was swollen while the left seemed fine. I noticed that yesterday he literally spent the entire day at the surface gasping for air.



Around midnight, I saw him seeming to struggle to reach the surface, so what I Did, is put him into the net, while keeping the net entirely into the water obviously to let it swim around. I figured at least if he was weak, he wouldnt sink all the way back to the bottom and could reach the surface easily.

This morning sure enough, found him dead, was wondering if the net had caused it somehow or it probably would have died very soon anyway?

 

Hey there! So I lost a Boseman Rainbow this morning, not that I'm surprised.

There had been some fighting between them this week and this one looked like he got a peck right at the gills, his right side was swollen while the left seemed fine. I noticed that yesterday he literally spent the entire day at the surface gasping for air.
View attachment 373102

Around midnight, I saw him seeming to struggle to reach the surface, so what I Did, is put him into the net, while keeping the net entirely into the water obviously to let it swim around. I figured at least if he was weak, he wouldnt sink all the way back to the bottom and could reach the surface easily.

This morning sure enough, found him dead, was wondering if the net had caused it somehow or it probably would have died very soon anyway?

Male Rainbows can fight to the death over mating rights to a female, some species worse than others. Your fish may well have come off second best and was wounded in the process leading to its death. I highly doubt you were the cause of the death providing all your water parameters were in order

 

Male Rainbows can fight to the death over mating rights to a female, some species worse than others. Your fish may well have come off second best and was wounded in the process leading to its death. I highly doubt you were the cause of the death providing all your water parameters were in order

=3= I gotta say I didn't think having a tank meant seeing so many dead fish all the time!

 

=3= I gotta say I didn't think having a tank meant seeing so many dead fish all the time!

How big is your tank? What size school of rainbows? They can become more aggressive with each other in smaller tanks

 

shouldn't have happened. I had a fish in a net for almost a week and it lived.

 

knows his Rainbows well.

Need to know tank dimensions, tank volume and how many boesemanI you have to rule out potential issues there which may exacerbate any fighting

 

It seems unlikely you caused the death with the net.

Having a tank does mean having to deal with the relatively short lifespan of fish. However, it might be good, as DaleM says, check your water parameters, and give us some idea of your tank size and stocking levels- both of which can hugely shorten the lives of fish.

 

9 Cloud Minnow, 12 Zebra Danios, 8 Otto, Clown and Bristlenose Pleco, 6(now 4) boesemanI rainbow and lots of plants

All params are 0/0/0 as always

Tank is 55 Gal

 

9 Cloud Minnow, 12 Zebra Danios, 8 Otto, Clown and Bristlenose Pleco, 6(now 4) boesemanI rainbow and lots of plants

All params are 0/0/0 as always

Tank is 55 Gal
View attachment 373114

I'm not going to comment on stocking levels/compatibility, but that's one gorgeous tank you've got there.

 

That looks like a female. and the wound was infected in the picture. BoesemanI can easily live 5 to 12 years, but not with a wound like that.

 

That looks like a female. and the wound was infected in the picture. BoesemanI can easily live 5 to 12 years, but not with a wound like that.

Ya know, I still get floored how long some fish can live. My dojo’s I think can hit 10 years, my goldy can hit 30, it’s nuts. He’s gonna outlive my dang cat!! Unless they pull another dead fish stunt... then that might be even shorter of a lifespan.

 

I'm not going to comment on stocking levels/compatibility, but that's one gorgeous tank you've got there.

thank you! Its my first tank and I knew that If I was diving in this whole thing I wanted something that would please my eyes!

As far as I know though my tank is not overstocked, I'd say its even understocked considering the amount of plants because my water parameters never went once above 0/0/0 and I was told 0 nitrate is not necesasrily a good thing, so I might have to cram more in there.

That looks like a female. and the wound was infected in the picture. BoesemanI can easily live 5 to 12 years, but not with a wound like that.

Keep in mind though that theyre all young, none of them have their coloration yet, and earlier this week they had probably gown accustomed enough to the tank (put them in last friday) to start claiming territories or something because they kept fighting. It's unfortunate that he got injured right at the gills because I'm sure if it had happened somewhere else on their body they probably wouldn't have died.

 

thank you! Its my first tank and I knew that If I was diving in this whole thing I wanted something that would please my eyes!

As far as I know though my tank is not overstocked, I'd say its even understocked considering the amount of plants because my water parameters never went once above 0/0/0 and I was told 0 nitrate is not necesasrily a good thing, so I might have to cram more in there.

0 nitrate isn't a bad thing in itself. It's only 'bad' if it indicates that the cycle hasn't started yet. The hardest part to get started is the nitrite to nitrate portion, so fish keepers often think it's 'good' when they first measure nitrate, but since you've got 0 it means it's being formed, but consumed by the plants. You may have to add some fertilizers if the growth isn't what's expected, though, but growing a planted tank is both and art and a science in itself.

Ya know, I still get floored how long some fish can live. My dojo’s I think can hit 10 years, my goldy can hit 30, it’s nuts. He’s gonna outlive my dang cat!! Unless they pull another dead fish stunt... then that might be even shorter of a lifespan.

Try koi- you need to set up a trust fund to see to their welfare after you're gone . I think the record is 240 years, with 100 not being uncommon.

 

Try koi- you need to set up a trust fund to see to their welfare after you're gone . I think the record is 240 years, with 100 not being uncommon.

It’s insane... even a lot of other fish can hit 5 years.

 

0 nitrate isn't a bad thing in itself. It's only 'bad' if it indicates that the cycle hasn't started yet. The hardest part to get started is the nitrite to nitrate portion, so fish keepers often think it's 'good' when they first measure nitrate, but since you've got 0 it means it's being formed, but consumed by the plants. You may have to add some fertilizers if the growth isn't what's expected, though, but growing a planted tank is both and art and a science in itself.

I was told that 0 nitrate is kinda like living in a clean room, sure you don't get disease but as soon as something "does" manage to get you your immunitary system will struggle a lot more. Theres never 0 nitrate in nature. But nah my cycle is defenitely started, it's just that I have so many plants I never get any spikes and I am adding fertilizers every week!

Guess this week just wasn't a very lucky week for my fish!

 

I don't think you having zero nitrates is problematic, as long as it's because the plants are soaking up the extra nitrates.

However you do have stocking issues. What's the temp of your tank?