Dg With Possible Hith, Dropsy, Popeye, Dead...

  1. Cheesewoman

    Cheesewoman Member Member

    This post is more just to make other people aware, as I had problems diagnosing the problem and by the time I did it was too late... (I am new to this though, still learning).

    I have... or had 2 dwarf gourami, a male and female. They were both happy and healthy (breeding, eating, making bubble nests etc.) until about a week ago I noticed the male (Ray) had what looked like a little white bump on his head, it was very small and I just assumed he'd hit his head on something.

    I monitored him closely, checked all my water levels and did regular water changes to make sure he was ok, and sure enough he carried on acting fine, until last night.

    When I got home from work yesterday evening I noticed he didn't come to the front of the tank to greet me like he usually does, normally he's super hungry and pestering the female or tending to his nest - this time he was keeping himself at the back of the tank, alone, with his nose pointing down and very little interest, even when I waggled my finger in the water (to which all the other fish came over instantly).

    This got me worried, so I took a closer look at him and was absolutely horrified by what I saw: the lesion on his head had gotten a lot bigger and looked white and a bit red, like it was infected. He'd also got other white marks around his head that looked like the same sort of thing as the one on the top of his head (I did look up HITH disease, still not sure if that's what it was), one of his eyes had swollen up (Popeye disease), and his abdomen had started to swell making his scales start to pinecone ever so slightly (Dropsy).

    So all of a sudden he was not looking too well, he was gasping a lot and I just didn't know what to do. I went to my LFS and they told me it was most likely a bacterial infection and to treat the entire tank with Interpet Anti-Bacterial + which I did straight away. I monitored him until late that night but didn't see any improvement.

    Sadly when I woke up this morning he was lying on his side on the substrate at the bottom of the tank, still gasping. I knew he was dying, so I quarantined him into a bucket... (I don't have a quarantine tank). He died moments later :(

    I have since looked up clove oil and methods of humanely euthanizing fish, which may have been a better option for him had I known about it sooner... I feel so bad for the little guy.

    Do any of you guys have experience with the above issues in dwarf gourami and managed to fight off whatever was wrong?

    I'd be interested to hear people's experiences using clove oil as well, and if you think in future I should keep some around just in case...

    The female seems happy enough but I'm not sure if I should continue treating the tank now...

    I took some images of him after he died to show the damage it had caused (he'd started to turn darker coloured after he died)
     

    Attached Files:





  2. DoubleDutch

    DoubleDutch Fishlore Legend Member

    How long did you have them?
     




  3. OP
    OP
    Cheesewoman

    Cheesewoman Member Member

    Just over 3 months
     




  4. BReefer97

    BReefer97 Well Known Member Member

    It looks like it was either columnaris or hole in head disease, neither of which I have experience dealing with, but I’ve heard both are pretty aggressive to take care of. As for clove oil, I would definitely have some on hand just in case. I just make sure I keep it absolutely no where near any of my fish or reptiles.
     




  5. DoubleDutch

    DoubleDutch Fishlore Legend Member

    Then I am pretty sure this is again a case of Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus.

    A viral infection that opens the immunesystem after some time allowing all kind of infections to take their chance.
    All the symptoms are there.

    I'd stop treatment and keep your fingers crossed the female isn't infected.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Cheesewoman

    Cheesewoman Member Member

    I'd not heard of this until now, you're right it sounds exactly like it. Thanks for mentioning it on my post, hopefully it will help others...

    So sad that there's no cure for it. The LFS that I got Ray from actually had a new shipment of DG recently, and they've all been taken off display as they were dying... like you said, fingers crossed that my female doesn't die of the same thing now...
     
  7. DoubleDutch

    DoubleDutch Fishlore Legend Member

    DGIV causes a lot of dieing fish arriving in the LFS (Ray's shape wasn't to bad btw : I mean a lot are dull and have a bump on their head)
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Cheesewoman

    Cheesewoman Member Member

    He was pretty bloated on one side, but he was a good looking fish and so full of personality, he'll be greatly missed :( I guess I should wait a couple of months before getting anything else in that tank now?

    Here's a pic of him when he was healthy - and of Sunshine (his lady)
     

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  9. DoubleDutch

    DoubleDutch Fishlore Legend Member

    Mmmm he has that bump on his head that I mentioned. He isn't as bright as the can be. The female does look like a healthy lady.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Cheesewoman

    Cheesewoman Member Member

    Yeah she's cutie, he did have a bump on his head but that picture was taken when he was a few month's younger. Since I had him his colours really came out (I was feeding him bloodworms now and then hehe). Sometimes his blue streaks would just be so vibrant... but yeah, the bump was there
     
  11. finnipper59

    finnipper59 Well Known Member Member

    There are many fish farm, especially the ones in Singapore, Asia that are not just trying to make money mass producing, but also experimenting with genetics. There are certain farm/tank raised fish that are flooing fish stores that aren't healthy. The Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus is nearly 100% fatal to all types of Dwarf Gouramis, but it's undetectable until later stages. It's contagious with no known treatment and is opportunistic to many dwarf gouramis that have had genes passed on to them making them susceptible to infections at birth. There are a lot of almost epidemic diseases beginning in Harliquins, Raboras, and even the Bettas coming out of Singapore. No matter what type of Dwarf Gourami you get now is risky. It should also be noted that Columnaris is spreading like fild fire through the fish community...but at least treatable right now. It's getting scary for treatable diseases, because the environmental protection agency is becoming concerned about all the antibiotics going down plumbing drains. Antibiotics may soon begin to disappear from aquarium shops for that reason.
     
  12. DoubleDutch

    DoubleDutch Fishlore Legend Member

    You're forgetting the neons.

    Fully agree !
     
  13. RedLoredAmazon

    RedLoredAmazon Well Known Member Member

    I lost my dwarf gourami to dwarf gourami disease/iridovirus a couple of years ago. I think they are really pretty fish, but they aren't worth the heartache to me anymore. I still wanted to have a gourami in my tank so I did a bunch of research. I found that I could keep honey gourami since I had an appropriate sized tank and temp for them. Plus they are more resistant to the iridovirus (that may have changed, but that is what I found at the time during my research).

    Even with my honey gourami, I had 3 in qt originally and now only have 1 that made it. The other two were so infested with internal parasites, another issue with gourami kept at big fish farms, that I couldn't save them. I now know how to better handle internal parasites, but it doesn't make it any easier to lose a fish.
     
  14. finnipper59

    finnipper59 Well Known Member Member

    Thanks for noticing thet I didn't mention the neon tetras, but believe me, I haven't forgotten them. They are so inbred and prone to disease, that it's gotten to the point that neglected feeder guppies are safer to put in a community tank...but I'm not suggesting that.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Cheesewoman

    Cheesewoman Member Member

    sounds like a lot of fishkeepers have been affected by the iridovirus, what a shame... it so happens that my LFS gets it's DG stock from Singapore. I've asked their head office to confirm... but it does put me off buying another one. Will my female be ok on her own? (she has otos, cherry barbs and amano shrimp)
     
  16. DoubleDutch

    DoubleDutch Fishlore Legend Member

    She will be okay !

    An importban is the only sollution.
     
  17. finnipper59

    finnipper59 Well Known Member Member

    She will be ok without a male. Gouramis can be kept as single specimens in a community tank just like bettas. Being female, she may become very gravid with eggs, but she will be ok. Two possible things that happen to gravid females is one, she may go ahead and lay the eggs which will be eaten by her and her tank mates, or after awhile with no male, some females start to produce a hormone that causes her body to break them down into nutrients that her own body will absorb. At this point just keep a watch on her. You still don't know if she's infected by Iridovirus...I'm sorry to say.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Cheesewoman

    Cheesewoman Member Member

    Thanks for the tips and support guys, I will be sure to keep a very close eye on her as she came from the same supplier as Ray :(