Desperately Need Cycle Help

ruthvsreality

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hi, up to this point I was afraid to post because I was worried people would yell at me for doing things wrong, but now I just feel that it doesn't matter and I need to do what's best for the fish. I know now that doing a fishless cycle is definitely the best thing to do and I am never doing a fish in cycle again.

I have several aquariums, two with a betta fish in it, and one with many tetras and two platies in it. despite doing a fish in cycle for all of them for two months at this point I have not been able to get the tanks to cycle. I have been changing the water once or twice a day (about 25 or 50 percent) and adding stress coat and seachem prime. I thought at this point something would change but it seems that no matter what I do the cycle will not go anywhere. I think I crashed it midway through because I had to take the carbon out of the cartridges to treat the fish for a fungal thing.

I bought a large bottle of tetra safestart but I don't really know what to do with it. A lot of people online have said to pour the whole bottle in but I worry that that is the wrong thing to do and I really don't want to hurt my fish.

please help!!! I just need the tanks to cycle!!!
 

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If you will post the numbers from each of these tanks I will try to help. I need ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH numbers.

BTW: taking out the carbon shouldn't have crashed your cycle.
 
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ruthvsreality

ruthvsreality

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mattgirl said:
If you will post the numbers from each of these tanks I will try to help. I need ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH numbers.

BTW: taking out the carbon shouldn't have crashed your cycle.
Do you want them before or after I have changed the water? Or should I not change the water at all? I am afraid to do that because I know too much ammonia might hurt the fish.

Thank you thank you thank you so much for offering to help!
 

oldsalt777

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ruthvsreality said:
hi, up to this point I was afraid to post because I was worried people would yell at me for doing things wrong, but now I just feel that it doesn't matter and I need to do what's best for the fish. I know now that doing a fishless cycle is definitely the best thing to do and I am never doing a fish in cycle again.

I have several aquariums, two with a betta fish in it, and one with many tetras and two platies in it. despite doing a fish in cycle for all of them for two months at this point I have not been able to get the tanks to cycle. I have been changing the water once or twice a day (about 25 or 50 percent) and adding stress coat and seachem prime. I thought at this point something would change but it seems that no matter what I do the cycle will not go anywhere. I think I crashed it midway through because I had to take the carbon out of the cartridges to treat the fish for a fungal thing.

I bought a large bottle of tetra safestart but I don't really know what to do with it. A lot of people online have said to pour the whole bottle in but I worry that that is the wrong thing to do and I really don't want to hurt my fish.

please help!!! I just need the tanks to cycle!!!
Hello ruth...

You could have instantly cycled a new tank by taking something from one of your established tanks and putting it into the new tank. Some filter material or a small scoop of the bottom material will do. Just add it to the new tank and add fish very slowly and test the tank water in the new tank every day or two to make sure the bacteria you added is working. If you have a positive test for either ammonia or nitrite in the new tank, remove and replace 25 percent of the water. This will keep the fish healthy and still grow the bacteria.

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HI old,

I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t think ANY of my tanks are cycled!!! So switching gravel will not help
 

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ruthvsreality said:
HI old,

I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t think ANY of my tanks are cycled!!! So switching gravel will not help
Test your water before a water change. That will give you the info you need to do the size water change you need to bring parameters down to acceptable levels.
 

Morpheus1967

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Also list your tank sizes, and the inhabitants of each tank. For example. If you have a single betta in a 10 gallon tank, and you are doing 25-50% water changes daily, I doubt you will ever see any numbers high enough to register.
 
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Momgoose56 said:
Test your water before a water change. That will give you the info you need to do the size water change you need to bring parameters down to acceptable levels.
Hi,

I have been doing this for two months. Still no sign of any change. Every day I test and every day I still get the same results - no nitrite, no nitrate, around .25-.5 ammonia. I change the water but it gets to be that same way yet again. I would like to build nitrites and nitrates!!!

Morpheus1967 said:
Also list your tank sizes, and the inhabitants of each tank. For example. If you have a single betta in a 10 gallon tank, and you are doing 25-50% water changes daily, I doubt you will ever see any numbers high enough to register.
1 betta - 5 gallon (with filter and heater)
1 betta - 2.5g (with filter and heater)
4 silverfin tetras, 5 neons, 2 platies - 10 gallon (with filter, heater, and many many live plants)
 

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You should be able to dump the whole bottle of TSS to your tank. Do you have any other filter media, like sponges or fluval biomax? Your beneficial bacteria needs places to grow. It’s good to have multiple sources so that when you do change your carbon filter, you won’t be throwing out all of your BB. Then you can rinse your sponges in clean tank water when it’s time and it won’t hurt any of the bacteria.
 

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Morpheus1967 said:
Please test your water right out of the tap.
Agree with morpheus. Just keep your Ammonia level to .5 and keep treating with Prime. If you are using test strips, I'd recommend that you get a liquid test kit like the API master test kit. The strips are less reliable and easily corrupt able by air and humidity.
I also would suggest that you test your tap water once for pH, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites soyou have that baseline.
pH can affect the speed that your tank cycles. Ideal pH for a tank to cycle is 7.8 to 8.0+. If your pH is very low, 7.2 or lower, I'd also recommend getting a liquid GH (general hardness/KH (carbonate hardness) test kit. It's easy to raise a low pH in a tank if it's low and you know the hardness/buffering capacity of the water. I'm guessing that your pH may be low and you have fairly soft water. That alone may be why your cycling is going so slow.
 

oldsalt777

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ruthvsreality said:
HI old,

I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t think ANY of my tanks are cycled!!! So switching gravel will not help
ruth...

Since you already have the fish in the tank, why not just follow the steps for a "fish-in" cycle? I've done this method before. It cycles the tank in a month or less and it doesn't require any chemicals other than the standard water treatment and a water testing kit.

Old
 
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Morpheus1967 said:
Please test your water right out of the tap.
oldsalt777 said:
ruth...

Since you already have the fish in the tank, why not just follow the steps for a "fish-in" cycle? I've done this method before. It cycles the tank in a month or less and it doesn't require any chemicals other than the standard water treatment and a water testing kit.

Old
I have been doing that for two months. I have not seen any progress in two of my tanks even after doing the same thing for two months, which is why I’m posting here.

mattgirl said:
If you will post the numbers from each of these tanks I will try to help. I need ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH numbers.

BTW: taking out the carbon shouldn't have crashed your cycle.
HI Matt girl

Here are my test results. The first one is for the 5 gallon with the betta, the second is for the 10 gallon with the tetras and the platies (I changed the water after this because I know the readings are very bad and scary), and the third is for the 2.5. I’m not sure if it’s relevant, but I added 10ml of safe start yesterday to all three tanks. The final one is the tap water - I had to go to class so I was not able to do all of the tests. I live in New York, though, so I’m almost sure that the pH is as close to 7 as you’re going to get. Odds are if the pH changes it’s something I did.

18DACD9E-AD08-4FCB-A0D4-02210588183C.jpeg


BB4CD34A-D2A5-459F-9929-868D674298BD.jpeg


71D84A72-E27E-4AD6-A051-DA6996E5F071.jpeg


6E983AA7-ED3E-4A03-A8FB-513FD9671F83.jpeg

I need to know what to do now that’s different than what I’ve been doing every day - which is taking out 50% of the water, and then adding new water, with about 5ml seachem prime and 5ml stresscoat+.

I’m scared for my fish. I love them so much and I just want them to be safe. I know I’ve really messed up, and am in way over my head. But I couldn’t possibly give them back - I think it’s too late now, and I love them so much. I got the 2.5g and the 5 gallon in February, the 10 gallon in March.
 

Morpheus1967

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ruthvsreality said:
I have been doing that for two months. I have not seen any progress in two of my tanks even after doing the same thing for two months, which is why I’m posting here.
What I meant was test your tap water. Before it goes into the tank. You may have ammonia in your water, and with such small bio-loads in each tank it is always reading .25-.5. Water from your tap can change based on what the city may be doing.
 
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Morpheus1967 said:
What I meant was test your tap water. Before it goes into the tank. You may have ammonia in your water, and with such small bio-loads in each tank it is always reading .25-.5. Water from your tap can change based on what the city may be doing.
I hadn’t thought of that. What do I do if there is ammonia in my water? I don’t think that’s the problem, though. The test from the tap was pretty yellow, whereas the tank water is usually pretty greenish.
 

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Well, for most folks, the tank can overcome small amounts of ammonia like that. But with these being smaller tanks, and with very few inhabitants, it will just take a much longer time to build up the bacteria colony you need. If you use Seachem Prime, it makes small amounts (.5ppm) non-toxic for your fish for 24-48 hours. So while you would be getting the positive readings, your fish are relatively safe.

But let's see what the water right from the tap tests at and go from there.
 
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Morpheus1967 said:
Well, for most folks, the tank can overcome small amounts of ammonia like that. But with these being smaller tanks, and with very few inhabitants, it will just take a much longer time to build up the bacteria colony you need. If you use Seachem Prime, it makes small amounts (.5ppm) non-toxic for your fish for 24-48 hours. So while you would be getting the positive readings, your fish are relatively safe.

But let's see what the water right from the tap tests at and go from there.
I posted the test results in the thread!
 

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What's the super dark purple in the third pic? Since the 3rd bottle is blue, I'm guessing that's pH?

It looks like you already have nitrate in the 5 gallon and the 2.5g though, so that's good. Are you shaking the bottle #2 for nitrate like crazy before you do the drops?
 

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ruthvsreality said:
I posted the test results in the thread!
Ha! So many colors I completely missed the ones from the tap. So the tap water is ruled out as the cause.

Are some of those tubes out of order? Since there are 4, are you showing pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates? In that order?
 
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Morpheus1967 said:
Ha! So many colors I completely missed the ones from the tap. So the tap water is ruled out as the cause.

Are some of those tubes out of order? Since there are 4, are you showing pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates? In that order?
Hi! Yes.

I know the pH is weirdly high - that keeps happening and I don’t know why. Again, my tap water should be almost as near 7 as it can get.

ETNsilverstar said:
What's the super dark purple in the third pic? Since the 3rd bottle is blue, I'm guessing that's pH?

It looks like you already have nitrate in the 5 gallon and the 2.5g though, so that's good. Are you shaking the bottle #2 for nitrate like crazy before you do the drops?
before I do the drops??? When the water is clear??? I haven’t thought of that. Or do you mean the bottle of test fluid?

I didn’t think I had nitrate! Maybe I’m just looking too hard for a darker color. Do you think it might be because of the TSS I added yesterday? I added about 10ml to each tank.
 

Morpheus1967

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Ok, well tank #2 is the only one that is really concerning. The other two you are showing nitrates, so it is cycling. I just think with such small bio-loads it is taking longer.

Tank two is the only odd ball, with high nitrites and no nitrates. It is also the tank with the most fish. So while the nitrites are high, stuff is going on. I think this is the only tank I would do the daily water changes on, until the nitrites are at an acceptable level.

mattgirl will be here shortly. She is the Queen of the Nitrogen Cycle in these here parts. She will look at everything and come up with a plan. Sorry I couldn't help more.

ruthvsreality said:
before I do the drops??? When the water is clear??? I haven’t thought of that. Or do you mean the bottle of test fluid?

I didn’t think I had nitrate! Maybe I’m just looking too hard for a darker color. Do you think it might be because of the TSS I added yesterday? I added about 10ml to each tank.
Those tests are showing nitrates. And yes, it can be from the TSS.
 
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Morpheus1967 said:
Ok, well tank #2 is the only one that is really concerning. The other two you are showing nitrates, so it is cycling. I just think with such small bio-loads it is taking longer.

Tank two is the only odd ball, with high nitrites and no nitrates. It is also the tank with the most fish. So while the nitrites are high, stuff is going on. I think this is the only tank I would do the daily water changes on, until the nitrites are at an acceptable level.

mattgirl will be here shortly. She is the Queen of the Nitrogen Cycle in these here parts. She will look at everything and come up with a plan. Sorry I couldn't help more.
Wow, that’s... that’s amazing. Here I was so scared I was doing everything wrong, and killing my fish.

Depending on what mattgirl says (hI mattgirl!), I’ll switch my water changes to every other day on the other 2 tanks, and I’ll add more TSS to all three tanks.
 

mattgirl

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ruthvsreality said:
HI Matt girl

Here are my test results. The first one is for the 5 gallon with the betta, the second is for the 10 gallon with the tetras and the platies (I changed the water after this because I know the readings are very bad and scary), and the third is for the 2.5. I’m not sure if it’s relevant, but I added 10ml of safe start yesterday to all three tanks. The final one is the tap water - I had to go to class so I was not able to do all of the tests. I live in New York, though, so I’m almost sure that the pH is as close to 7 as you’re going to get. Odds are if the pH changes it’s something I did.

18DACD9E-AD08-4FCB-A0D4-02210588183C.jpeg


BB4CD34A-D2A5-459F-9929-868D674298BD.jpeg


71D84A72-E27E-4AD6-A051-DA6996E5F071.jpeg


6E983AA7-ED3E-4A03-A8FB-513FD9671F83.jpeg

I need to know what to do now that’s different than what I’ve been doing every day - which is taking out 50% of the water, and then adding new water, with about 5ml seachem prime and 5ml stresscoat+.

I’m scared for my fish. I love them so much and I just want them to be safe. I know I’ve really messed up, and am in way over my head. But I couldn’t possibly give them back - I think it’s too late now, and I love them so much. I got the 2.5g and the 5 gallon in February, the 10 gallon in March.
Sorry for being so late to reply. It is a beautiful day here today so I decided it was a good time to get some grass/weeds mowed down.
There is a LOT going on here so it will take a few questions/answers to get it sorted out.

I know you said the 4th picture was your tap water but there are only 2 test tubes there. I need all 4 readings so I can know what we have to work with. Please run both high and low PH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates on the tap water. Also, tell me everything you have added to these tanks since you set them up. How are you cleaning your filter media?

I kinda wish you had held off on adding the TSS because it can cause some strange readings but shouldn't hurt anything and we will try to work through them. During all this time you have had these tanks set up have you previously added any kind of bottled bacteria? I ask because some folks never see nitrites when using some of them.

First STOP adding the Stress Coat. Both it and Prime are water conditioners and there is no need to be adding both of them. In my humble opinion the aloe in the stress coat is a sales gimmick and does nothing to actually help the fish.

The tank I am most confused about is the 2.5. The PH in that one is almost off the high PH chart. I have to think something in there is causing it to climb so high. Either some kind of deco or the substrate is causing it to go so high. It shouldn't hurt your fish but if the PH of your source water is closer to neutral water changes could cause your little guy problems. We want a stable number.

The 10 gallon tank is mid cycle because we are seeing nitrites in that one. This is the one that needs the most attention. Had you not added the TSS I would have said it needs water changes daily to protect your fish from it. If you don't mind losing the possible affects of the TSS I will recommend 50% water changes daily until the nitrites drop to zero. It really should happen fairly quick so you may only have to do the water changes for 2 or 3 days. Add enough Prime to the tank to treat the full 10 gallons with each water change. It will protect your fish from the damaging affects of the ammonia and nitrites.

I probably didn't answer all the questions you had. It will probably take more than one post to get to the bottom of what is going on and how to fix it.
 
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mattgirl said:
Sorry for being so late to reply. It is a beautiful day here today so I decided it was a good time to get some grass/weeds mowed down.
There is a LOT going on here so it will take a few questions/answers to get it sorted out.

I know you said the 4th picture was your tap water but there are only 2 test tubes there. I need all 4 readings so I can know what we have to work with. Please run both high and low PH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates on the tap water. Also, tell me everything you have added to these tanks since you set them up. How are you cleaning your filter media?

I kinda wish you had held off on adding the TSS because it can cause some strange readings but shouldn't hurt anything and we will try to work through them. During all this time you have had these tanks set up have you previously added any kind of bottled bacteria? I ask because some folks never see nitrites when using some of them.

First STOP adding the Stress Coat. Both it and Prime are water conditioners and there is no need to be adding both of them. In my humble opinion the aloe in the stress coat is a sales gimmick and does nothing to actually help the fish.

The tank I am most confused about is the 2.5. The PH in that one is almost off the high PH chart. I have to think something in there is causing it to climb so high. Either some kind of deco or the substrate is causing it to go so high. It shouldn't hurt your fish but if the PH of your source water is closer to neutral water changes could cause your little guy problems. We want a stable number.

The 10 gallon tank is mid cycle because we are seeing nitrites in that one. This is the one that needs the most attention. Had you not added the TSS I would have said it needs water changes daily to protect your fish from it. If you don't mind losing the possible affects of the TSS I will recommend 50% water changes daily until the nitrites drop to zero. It really should happen fairly quick so you may only have to do the water changes for 2 or 3 days. Add enough Prime to the tank to treat the full 10 gallons with each water change. It will protect your fish from the damaging affects of the ammonia and nitrites.

I probably didn't answer all the questions you had. It will probably take more than one post to get to the bottom of what is going on and how to fix it.
HI mattgirl

Thank you so so so much for all of your help. From what it sounds like, I’ve been doing the right stuff, it’s just been taking a long time and I’ve been impatient.

I will continue with daily water changes for everyone (mostly I’m just glad I don’t have to do bi-daily changes, that was exhausting). I will also test the tap water for nitrates and pH and will post them here. No more stress coat, just water conditioner. Could I use quick start instead of seachem? I thought by using quick start, I could add TSS, which might speed up the cycle.

ruthvsreality said:
HI mattgirl

Thank you so so so much for all of your help. From what it sounds like, I’ve been doing the right stuff, it’s just been taking a long time and I’ve been impatient.

I will continue with daily water changes for everyone (mostly I’m just glad I don’t have to do bi-daily changes, that was exhausting). I will also test the tap water for nitrates and pH and will post them here. No more stress coat, just water conditioner. Could I use quick start instead of seachem? I thought by using quick start, I could add TSS, which might speed up the cycle.
The 5 gallon has silk plants and a little plastic castle in it, as well as two sad looking live plants.

The 10 gallon has live plants, a little ceramic house, and a little plastic orb.

The 2.5g has silk plants, a little plastic hideaway, and a little plastic castle.
 

ETNsilverstar

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ruthvsreality said:
before I do the drops??? When the water is clear??? I haven’t thought of that. Or do you mean the bottle of test fluid?

I didn’t think I had nitrate! Maybe I’m just looking too hard for a darker color. Do you think it might be because of the TSS I added yesterday? I added about 10ml to each tank.
Yeah, you do 10 drops from #1, then shake bottle #2 for 30-60 seconds before doing the drops. It's a subtle difference, but there's definitely a hint of orange. If you don't shake it really well, it can give you false low readings. When my tank was cycling, if I hadn't done tests side by side I never would have known when I got nitrite! Looking at them individually I thought each was 0, but side by side it was obvious that they weren't the same color and something was happening.

And yeah, it's possible it's from the TSS. You can add a whole bottle and not have to worry about anything, for future reference.
 

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ruthvsreality said:
HI mattgirl

Thank you so so so much for all of your help. From what it sounds like, I’ve been doing the right stuff, it’s just been taking a long time and I’ve been impatient.

I will continue with daily water changes for everyone (mostly I’m just glad I don’t have to do bi-daily changes, that was exhausting). I will also test the tap water for nitrates and pH and will post them here. No more stress coat, just water conditioner. Could I use quick start instead of seachem? I thought by using quick start, I could add TSS, which might speed up the cycle.
Personally I wouldn't add anything other than Prime. All of your tanks are well on their way to cycled. The less you add the better it will be.

For your 5 and 2.5 gallon tanks just keep an eye on the ammonia level. As long as it is below one just add Prime every other day. If it goes up to one do a water change to get it back below one and again add Prime. It is just going to take time and patience to get these cycles done. I truly do believe "less is best" meaning the fewer things you add to a tank the better it is for your water pets.

We really do need to find out what is causing that high PH in your smallest tank though. Water changes with water with a much lower PH could hurt your fish.What kind of substrate do you have in there? Is it possible you added too many or not enough drops when you ran the test?

the only tank you need to be doing daily water changes on right now is the 10 gallon with the high nitrites.
 
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mattgirl said:
Personally I wouldn't add anything other than Prime. All of your tanks are well on their way to cycled. The less you add the better it will be.

For your 5 and 2.5 gallon tanks just keep an eye on the ammonia level. As long as it is below one just add Prime every other day. If it goes up to one do a water change to get it back below one and again add Prime. It is just going to take time and patience to get these cycles done. I truly do believe "less is best" meaning the fewer things you add to a tank the better it is for your water pets.

We really do need to find out what is causing that high PH in your smallest tank though. Water changes with water with a much lower PH could hurt your fish.What kind of substrate do you have in there? Is it possible you added too many or not enough drops when you ran the test?

the only tank you need to be doing daily water changes on right now is the 10 gallon with the high nitrites.
I’m reasonably certain that it’s because of
mattgirl said:
Personally I wouldn't add anything other than Prime. All of your tanks are well on their way to cycled. The less you add the better it will be.

For your 5 and 2.5 gallon tanks just keep an eye on the ammonia level. As long as it is below one just add Prime every other day. If it goes up to one do a water change to get it back below one and again add Prime. It is just going to take time and patience to get these cycles done. I truly do believe "less is best" meaning the fewer things you add to a tank the better it is for your water pets.

We really do need to find out what is causing that high PH in your smallest tank though. Water changes with water with a much lower PH could hurt your fish.What kind of substrate do you have in there? Is it possible you added too many or not enough drops when you ran the test?

the only tank you need to be doing daily water changes on right now is the 10 gallon with the high nitrites.
So I don’t even need to be changing the water for the 5 gallon and the 2.5g ? Wow. I’ll test it every day for now, and will change it if it goes above 1ppm.

The PH is probably because of the Epsom salts I put in to help the betta’s popeye (which is all gone now). I’ll change it out and see what happens.
 

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ruthvsreality said:
I’m reasonably certain that it’s because of


So I don’t even need to be changing the water for the 5 gallon and the 2.5g ? Wow. I’ll test it every day for now, and will change it if it goes above 1ppm.
Right, for now just keep an eye on the ammonia level and do water changes if the ammonia spikes up to one.

The PH is probably because of the Epsom salts I put in to help the betta’s popeye (which is all gone now). I’ll change it out and see what happens.
If the epsom salts are still in the 2.5 gallon you do need to get it back out of there with water changes. hopefully that is why you are getting such a high reading on the PH test in that tank.
 

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