Deadly tank :( - story

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Jesserr20, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. Jesserr20New MemberMember

    So i got myself a nice 35 Gal tank from my father in law and decided to set myself up a tropical tank .. It's been up and running since feb 12th .. At first i had two aquatic frogs in it, one acf and one adf .. and had two plastic compartments on different sides of the tank that had my bettas in them .. after a couple weeks i added 6 neons and everybody seem'd to be doing great .. The first casualty was the acf , climed into the filter and drowned in there .. took me 2 weeks to find out what happind to it :( .. Next one of the bettas was acting sickly so we put him back into his bowl he had been in for the past 8 months happily.. poor guy looked on the brink of death and couldn't swim but he's managed to hang in there, still has trouble swimming though, like he gets stuck on the surface... Next one of the tetras starting seeming sickly, faded colour and not schooling so I paniced thinking it was sick and would infect the others so i put it in a small bowl overnight, I then felt bad for it and dumped him back in the next morning, not thinking about temp change and it became paralised right away and died soon after ... next the ADF dissapeared, i looked in the filter and it had got himself in there to, but he was still alive so i managed to save him, and i put some netting over the filter thingy so it won't happin again ... Over the next couple weeks i noticed what looked like white dots on the fish, especialy the betta.. I got some different chemicals, this betta fix stuff, malafex are something like that, and waste removal .. used the malafex for a couple days and didn't notice any change... been useing the waste control on the maitanence dosage once a week, and also been changeing 5 litres of water every 3 days or so (no chlorine in) .. found a dead neon sucked onto the filter, stomach swollen and black looking... the betta seem'd quite unhappy and I'd done some reading and thought i'd give it a shot haveing him free in the tank, I was quite pleased to find things seem'd to be ok, he made a home for himself in the castle .... a couple days later I found one of the neons strugling to swim at the bottom, and was without a tail at all!! He seems to be hanging in there so far.. I moved the betta out of the tank back into a bowl, as he was the likely suspect.... this morning a found another dead neon sucked onto the filter, nothing looked wrong with it...... So anyway we're down to 3 neons, 1 without a tail, one looks fine, and the other is covered in white spots (ich i guess) and looks awful ... the Pleco seems to be OK, think it has a couple white spots on it though .. Frog seems great, always swimming around and jumping at the pleco ... I got a thing of aqusal but i've been afraid to use it, it says not to use if theres amphibians .. is it unsafe for the frog ? ... I've also been scared to raise the temp up to 85 .. can the tetra, pleco and frog handle that temp ?? ... is it safe to use the aquasal with the frog ?? ....... Thanks in advance, wrote this up real quick before dinner so i hope it makes sence ... I don't have a testing kit, i know this is a must .... I thought my tank would have been cycled by now, perhaps now ????
  2. jim55379Valued MemberMember

    Wow that's an amazing story!!! I have had my share of tradgedies also. All with Ick. At this point I wouldn't use too many chemicals or turn the heat up yet. I don't know anything about frogs but they sound real cool. My sister had some but they commited suicide and left the tank. I hope someone else can assist you. It sounds like your hands are full. I have never had any bettas and don't know what the acf is. Is that the frog? Also what kind of "killer" filter do you have? Is it a HOB? I hope you can correct this before they all get sucked up in it :eek: Good luck

  3. 0morrokhFishlore VIPMember

    As you already know, you need to get a test kit for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Then you can find out if anything's wrong. I think the temp change should be fine as long as it is made gradually. And definately don't risk using anything that says it's not safe with amphibians.

  4. Jesserr20New MemberMember

    down to 1 neon now, and the frog and pleco ... I finaly found a really good Local fish store and a guy reccomended me to a certain kink of ick medicine where you don't have to raise the temp and it has no warnings about amphibians .. did the first treatment this morning so we'll see how it go's .. i'm done with neons for now .. once my tank is disease free and healthy again next time i'm gunna get some cherry barbs and zebra danios .. how many schools of these small schooling fish can a 30 gal eventualy hold ? say schools of 6 or 7 each....

    Oh, I also found the most glorious young crown tail betta up at the crappy pet store by my house.. It was to great of a find so for 2.99$ I couldn't turn it down .. Now I have 3 betta bowls on my desk
  5. 0morrokhFishlore VIPMember

    Neons have been getting a bad reputation for being sickly and dying. Sorry to hear about your losses. :'( Cherry Barbs and Zebra Danios are a great choice. I go by a different rule, but a good general rule to figure out about how many fish your tank can hold is 1 inch of fish per gallon.

    Also, even though the medication says you don't have to raise the temp, it would be a very good idea anyway. They all say that, probably because they don't want potential buyers to think they will have to do extra work. ::) Ich is less likely to survive in hotter water.
  6. jim55379Valued MemberMember

    Jesser sorry to hear about your "hard" times.  I think you are making a wise choice.  My Danios 2 orange and one white one are doing great.  I personally find the tigers a little more attractive than the cherry's but as they say....... beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I have 5 tigers and 3 danios in a 20 gallon. I think this will give me room when they grow up. If you had a 30 you could theoretically put about 15 small fish that will grow to a max size of 2" but I wouldn't put that many in if it was me. Maybe about 10 or 12. It's your choice.
    I went through about 4 or 5 tanks of Irradescent sharks and pictus cats and they always died of ick. I was so sick of the treatments and water changes and they still died that I almost gave this hobby up.  Golfish, danios, and barbs are Great........ ;D :D
  7. chickadeeFishlore VIPMember

    Welcome to Fishlore. I am happy to meet you, but I do have some kind of bad news for you.

    Your 3 betta bowls are not going to work to keep your bettas happy and healthy. Bettas have the following requirements, being Tropical Fish, no matter what the guy at the local fish store may tell you.

    1) Room to swim - recommend no less than 5 gallon and since no 2 male bettas can be put in the same tank that means 3 tanks.
    2) Heaters - 5 watts per gallon on each tank - the temperature for this fish needs to kept at 78 - 80 degrees on a constant level to keep them healthy and you need the ability to raise it to 82 when medication is needed (or 85 with ich)
    3) Filtration - find decent (not undergravel) filters that filter biologically, chemically, and mechanically yet do not move the water with such forcefulness it is like a running river in the tank. Bettas like a ripple in the water not a rush.
    4) Food they can eat - there are a lot of foods out there for bettas but some of them no Betta can eat. Any pellet bigger than a very small seed is too big for the Bettas mouth. Hikari Betta-Bio-Gold Pellets is a good example of good food. They also eat freeze-dried bloodworms. Realize that there is probably no fish going that is more picky than a betta so if you find a food they will eat, stay with it. Bettas do not go in much for variety. I am here to tell you, I have tried to change my Bettas foods and it is mostly a lost cause and a waste of money.
    5) Light - At least 6 hours a day according to a fish vet I consulted when my betta was sick and my lighting was broke. Fish don't make Vitamin D without at least 6 hours of light a day. They get sick then. Mine died from dropsy after being weakened after being without light for 3 weeks.

    Bettas are not easy to take care of. They have to live in cycled tanks and demand the above requirements if they are to live their normal life cycle. They will be a beautiful and charming companion, each with his own personality, if they are taken care of as they need to be.

    I am not trying to offend anyone or boss anyone here, but I do make it my purpose to see that these little fish have the best of conditions to live and play in and if I were not to do so I would feel like I hadn't done my best for them.

    Again welcome to Fishlore. I do hope that your experience here will be as enjoyable as mine has been.

  8. 0morrokhFishlore VIPMember

    Yes, well said Rose.

    I can think of another thing, which kinda goes with some of yours but a little different:

    6) A decent volume of water - as Rose said Bettas require excellent water conditions. A good filter alone can't keep the water perfect; with anything less than 5 gallons any bad stuff in the water will build up quickly. Also, anything less than 5 gallons can't be heated without a certain amount of risk--and bowls can't be heated at all. And, when doing water changes, remember that the smaller the volume of water, the more likely that the fish will get "shocked" if the new water is slightly different in any aspect. In a small bowl, there is also not much room to provide sufficient plants and hiding places, causing stress and insecurity. And finally, despite what pet stores tell you, like Rose said they do need room to swim around and I have seen them very active at my lfs where they are kept in the regular tanks, not bowls.

    I hope you are not put off by us suddenly telling you how to keep your Bettas. We just care a lot about our little fishies.

    And be sure to keep us posted on how your fish are doing. :)
  9. Jesserr20New MemberMember

    Thx for the advice ... So far at this point I can really only go by what i've witnessed with my bettas . I've seen lots of different opinions on the subject.. But i've had 2 of my bettas now for over a year, and they've always been extremely active and happy in there bowls ( about 2 litres) .. Untill recently I was even useing chlorinated water out of the tap for water changes ... Going off of similar advice was the reason i first wanted to set up my fish tank so i could put a divider in and give the bettas a proper enviroment .. I gave a shot of trying out both bettas at different times in the tank .. The first one seem'd very miserable and wouldn't eat and became very sickly, not being able to swim, so i put him back into his old bowl almost dead and now a couple weeks later he's made a complete recovery.. I had the other one in with the comunity of neons for 2 weeks, and I would frequently find him sucked onto the filter, even though theres plenty of resting and hideing places.. He came down with ICK and then bit a tail off one of my neons, so I removed him back to his old home and he's been makeing a great recovery ... I dunno, but it's just from my experience that once i started worrying about their water quality and trying to give them better homes, I went from 2 very happy and healthy 1 year old bettas to almost loseing them both .. I know it can be said the problems in the tank were all caused by it cycleing, but their were times i'm sad to say that their water in their bowls was much worse and it never even phased them at all ...... We'll see, perhaps when the tank is sorted out i'll give it another shot with the new betta... I care a lot about my lil fishies too and for now i'm gunna stick with whats working for me and them.. the 2 are well on the mend and my new ones doing great :)
  10. chickadeeFishlore VIPMember

    We can only give the best advice we have. It is up to you whether you choose to use it or not. This is information we have learned through having our own bettas and reading and talking about bettas from experts on the subject. If you have had luck using your method, I do hope your luck continues. My experience is that the lifespan of the bettas will be shortened, but perhaps you will be lucky enough for this not to be the case.

    May you have healthy and happy bettas, that is all we both hope for.

  11. 0morrokhFishlore VIPMember

    I have heard about like maybe one case in which someone successfully kept a Betta in a bowl (besides you), but those cases are the exceptions. The problems in the tank were definately caused by cycling. If you cycle a tank fishless and move them into it, I can almost guarantee they will be a lot happier. It may seem like poor water quality is not phasing them, but it probably is stressful, and they would appreciate more space to move around. But they are your fish so you can do what you want with them. If you feel that bowls will give you more success with them than a tank, then continue to use bowls. I hope your Bettas continue to do well. :)

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