Dark And Brown Plants Problem

Advice please!
The 1st few months of set up the plants were doing really well, pearling and growing like crazy. Had to trim all the time. Suddenly growing stopped & started turning dark & brown, and algae started, green Algae, spot algae and hair Algae. So I cut back on lights from 10 hr to 8, and reduced LED to only 3 hrs (have 2 x t8 + 30W LED). pointed the outflow of my 2nd filter to the foreground plants for more flow, and closed all curtains. No real improvements. Then I started adding liquid fertiliser which started some growth again but slow and no pearling and still plants are darkening deteriorating. Less Algae especially after Peroxide treatment.
I have CO2 fertilising which I also reduced in time to control the Algae.
What am I doing wrong? why aren't the plants lush? Should I dose more liquid fertiliser?
I started to dose more. Turned off LED all together, still plant growth and browning getting worst. I am slowly but surely loosing all my plants
My other tanks which are newer are also doing well in the beginning, but I can start to see some slowing and algae starting.
Here are some photos:

 

What ferts are you using? When growth is good and then stops, it is usually time to increase something. Taking things down isn't usually a good technique when things were initially going well.

 

You could probably make it look a lot better if you just cleaned it up. I would measure nitrates and sometimes the plants go from this stunted growth to explosion in like no Time

 

I am using Tropica specialised nutrients. The reason why I started decreasing light was because the algae was getting out of control. And with not enough of something( maybe nutrients) that is making imbalance allowing for algae. That's my reason, because I have no more other choices.
I should add that every time I tested No2 & No3 they we always low. So it maybe that the fish are not producing enough or the plants are taking it all, which led me to start adding Tropica premium nutrition.

 

This is after cleaning up. The picture of the micro sword plant, I had already taken them out and did H2O2 bath for them and replanted. Before they were infested with hair and spot algae
But even though there is little growth now, the speed of deterioration is faster.
Do I just keep dosing more plant nutrients ? (which I did a few pumps today)
Is there something more crucial I am missing?

 

Or is it the Light that I have reduced? Because if you look at the 2nd photo the row of Alternanthera (reineckil "mini"), the ones on the right seem healthier than the left and they get more light. The ones on the left are in the shade of the roots and the tall background plants (pic1).

 

This is how my Riccia (fluitans) looks now, and it used to look like the other tank (2nd pic)







Frustrating .... Can't seem to figure it out.

 

Go back to full lighting 8 hours a day.

Get a macro fert. That premium nutrition has no macros, only micros.

Nitrite should read 0 at all times. Nitrates staying below 10 means your plants are bottoming out. They are starving which is why you are seeing this decay.

 

Yes my Nitrates are at 2ppm. You are awesome for figuring it out, thank you.
Please elaborate a little more on the macros, and how I can boost it.

 

Yes my Nitrates are at 2ppm. You are awesome for figuring it out, thank you.
Please elaborate a little more on the macros, and how I can boost it.

Macronutrients. It is the most consumed things. I would just get an all in one fertilizer. I don't know what's available in your area though. There is bound to be a local, or even german brand just as good as anything I could recommend for yoh.

 

See if the Aquascaper complete liquid plant food ships to your country. The UK based aquarium gardens sells it. Alternatively, you could buy the dry compounds yourself and follow a estimative index based dosing method

 

Have acquired 2 different brands that are available here that provide Macronutrients.

One is from tropica specialised Nutrition:

• Contains nitrogen and phosphor for fast-growing and demanding plants
• Also contains iron, manganese and vital micro nutrients
• Suitable for aquariums with many and fast-growing plants

The other is Happy life Plant:



In addition to the basic nutrients such as iron, potassium and magnesium, many trace elements such as manganese, boron, cobalt, lithium, aluminum, selenium and vanadium. All nutrients are offered in a form that ensures availability over time.

And I have dosed with both for the last couple of days, but still seem to have deteriorating plants. Even with my other new tank that also started out with amazing plant growth has now slowed down and is following in the older tank's footsteps.

Should I be seeing a turn around? or I should wait weeks for any results? is it possible that it isn't Macro nutrients that is the problem?

 

Have acquired 2 different brands that are available here that provide Macronutrients.

One is from tropica specialised Nutrition:
View attachment 501198

• Contains nitrogen and phosphor for fast-growing and demanding plants
• Also contains iron, manganese and vital micro nutrients
• Suitable for aquariums with many and fast-growing plants

The other is Happy life Plant:

View attachment 501206
In addition to the basic nutrients such as iron, potassium and magnesium, many trace elements such as manganese, boron, cobalt, lithium, aluminum, selenium and vanadium. All nutrients are offered in a form that ensures availability over time.

And I have dosed with both for the last couple of days, but still seem to have deteriorating plants. Even with my other new tank that also started out with amazing plant growth has now slowed down and is following in the older tank's footsteps.

Should I be seeing a turn around? or I should wait weeks for any results? is it possible that it isn't Macro nutrients that is the problem?

If they are still melting then they are still melting. It should have stopped. It may take a while to see new growth, and sacrificed plant material will be shed.

 

I still feel that the problem has not been resolved. Either these nutrients I bought don't have all the Macro nutrients needed or it is something else that is causing plants to continue to die.
The same thing is repeating in my 2nd tank. Just last week plants were still pearling and growing with beautiful lush green. Is it possible I am overdosing?
Sorry to be persistent but I want to solve the issue and enjoy a beautiful planted scape.

 

Its highly unlikely you are overdosing at this point.

You are running full lighting for 8 hours still correct? Do you have any new growth at all? Maybe give it a full week of dosing and then take photos that match your first 5 and do a comparison.

Did you do a huge water change prior to dosing? If not, I would highly suggest it.

 

Thank you for your quick reply. I have not done a water change but I will do one tomorrow.
Frustration over a long period had made me too impatient and expect immediate results when plants take time to grow and show it.
Will keep at it, and eventually we should be able to solve it.
Your help is extremely appreciated. Don't give up on me .

 

Reporting back after a few days, I have started to notice a turn around in some plants, and a reduction in Algae. So you have definitely hit the nail on the head with your advice. I did loose all my RICCIA FLUITANS plants in my tanks, but I do feel that it was due to H2O2 Algae treatment. So I suppose the structure of this plant is affected the same way as algae.
I have also read before that in new aquariums there will always be an Algae bloom which will in time be reduced to normal. I wish you would elaborate on that.
Thanks again for your support in passing on your knowledge to better the hobby for everyone.

 

So in new tanks it is super common for diatoms. They feed off of the extra silicates in the tank from it having those new glass panes and seals.

It is also common for green water, but that's because of excess nutrients and a lack of your filter to handle them appropriately, not as common in planted tanks.

Other algae is common for the same reason, but is more stubborn than the first two. Once you start turning the tide with algae, usually it snowballs into a better and better situation. Dont forget though, that as plants grow, they need more ferts. Ideally, we keep a slight excess of fertilizer and co2, and limit growth with the intensity and duration of lights. Without diffusing co2 into our tanks, it gets a little tricky as co2 will pretty much always be a limiting factor.

 

Advice please!
The 1st few months of set up the plants were doing really well, pearling and growing like crazy. Had to trim all the time. Suddenly growing stopped & started turning dark & brown, and algae started, green Algae, spot algae and hair Algae. So I cut back on lights from 10 hr to 8, and reduced LED to only 3 hrs (have 2 x t8 + 30W LED). pointed the outflow of my 2nd filter to the foreground plants for more flow, and closed all curtains. No real improvements. Then I started adding liquid fertiliser which started some growth again but slow and no pearling and still plants are darkening deteriorating. Less Algae especially after Peroxide treatment.
I have CO2 fertilising which I also reduced in time to control the Algae.
What am I doing wrong? why aren't the plants lush? Should I dose more liquid fertiliser?
I started to dose more. Turned off LED all together, still plant growth and browning getting worst. I am slowly but surely loosing all my plants
My other tanks which are newer are also doing well in the beginning, but I can start to see some slowing and algae starting.
Here are some photos:

HI Kader

The suggestions to reduce your photoperiod were correct. Also the issue you are experiencing are definitely nutrient related; the two most obvious deficiencies are calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg). Here is one of your photos which I enlarged, enhanced, and added some arrows to you can see what I saw.



@ Arrow #1 - Do you see the hooked downward leaf tip? This is a classic symptom of a lack of calcium

I. SYMPTOMS APPEARING FIRST OR MOST SEVERELY ON NEW GROWTH (root and shoot tips, new leaves)

A. TERMINAL BUD USUALLY DIES. Symptoms on new growth.

2. NECROSIS OCCURS AT TIP AND MARGIN OF LEAVES CAUSING A DEFINITE
HOOK AT LEAF TIP. Calcium is essential for the growth of shoot and root tips (meristems). Growing point dies. Margins of young leaves are scalloped and abnormally green and, due to inhibition of cell wall formation, the leaf tips may be "gelatinous" and stuck together inhibiting leaf unfolding. Stem structure is weak and peduncle collapse or stem topple may occur. Roots are stunted. Downward curl of leaf tips (hooking) occurs near terminal bud. AMMONIUM or MAGNESIUM EXCESS may induce a calcium deficiency in plants...CALCIUM DEFICIENCY

Differentiating between calcium and boron deficiency symptoms: When calcium is deficient, there is a characteristic hooking of the youngest leaf tips. However, when boron is deficient, the breakdown occurs at the bases of the youngest leaves. Death of the terminal growing points is the final result in both cases.

@ Arrow #2 - Both arrows are pointing to leaves with 'wavy' and/or curled leaf margins. These are classic symptoms of a lack of magnesium.

@ Arrow #3 - The arrow is pointing at the older leaves on your Pogostemon helferI - do you see how they are yellowing (chlorosis)?

II. SYMPTOMS DO NOT APPEAR FIRST OR MOST SEVERELY ON YOUNGEST LEAVES: Effect general on whole plant or localized on older, lower leaves.

C. INTERVEINAL CHLOROSIS. Interveinal chlorosis first appears on oldest leaves.

1. OLDER LEAVES CHLORIC, usually necrotic in late stages.

CHLOROSIS ALONG LEAF MARGINS EXTENDING BETWEEN VEINS PRODUCES A "Christmas tree" PATTERN.

Veins normal green. Leaf margins may curl downward or upward with puckering effect. Necrosis may suddenly occur between veins. POTASSIUM or CALCIUM EXCESS can inhibit uptake of magnesium... MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY

When the external magnesium supply is deficient, interveinal chlorosis of the older leaves is the first symptom because as the magnesium of the chlorophyll is remobilized, the mesophyll cells next to the vascular bundles retain chlorophyll for longer periods than do the parenchyma cells between them. Leaves lose green color at tips and between veins followed by chlorosis or development of brilliant colors, starting with lower leaves and proceeding upwards. The chlorosis/brilliant colors (unmasking of other leaf pigments due to the lack of chlorophyll) may start at the leaf margins or tips and progress inward interveinally producing a "Christmas" tree pattern. Leaves are abnormally thin, stems are brittle and stems have a tendency to curve upward. Stems are weak, subject to fungus infection usually leaves drop prematurely.

I always recommend that hobbyists involved with planted tanks have test kits for the following, having the water parameters helps a lot is diagnosing issues:
pH Test Kit
dKH Test Kit
dGH Test Kit
Nitrate Test Kit (ppm of NO3)

What would I recommend? Pick up a bottle of it contains calcium, magnesium, and potassium. Dose sufficient to increase the dGH in your tank by 2.0 degrees. Whenever you do a water change add sufficient GH Booster to bring you back to =2.0 degrees above your tap water hardness.

You should start to see improvement in two weeks. DO NOT WATCH THE EXISTING LEAVES...THEY WILL NOT CHANGE. Instead focus on the new leaves as they emerge. What you should see it they look healthier, possibly larger and greener, without the 'leaf tip hook' or the leaf margins curling. As these new leaves mature, they should not turn yellow (chlorosis). If you have questions just ask. -Roy

 

+1 for what SeattleRoy said. I had the exact same problem and dosing calcium and magnesium supplements fixed me right up.

 

Hello Roy,
Want to thank you for your help and effort in editing the photo with arrows pointing to the different issues and identifying them. I am so grateful that you would take the time and do such an elaborate explanation.
I do have all the test kits you mentioned, and for sure my nitrate level is always low. I did mineralise the water with Salty Shrimp GH/KH+ in the beginning but I suppose with the strong growth in the beginning, these minerals were consumed and I didn't replenish.
Now with the information you and Wraithen have provided, I have such a better understanding and grip on this. You have turned my frustration to a refreshed enthusiasm.
Hallelujah!

 

Hello Roy,
Want to thank you for your help and effort in editing the photo with arrows pointing to the different issues and identifying them. I am so grateful that you would take the time and do such an elaborate explanation.
I do have all the test kits you mentioned, and for sure my nitrate level is always low. I did mineralise the water with Salty Shrimp GH/KH+ in the beginning but I suppose with the strong growth in the beginning, these minerals were consumed and I didn't replenish.
Now with the information you and Wraithen have provided, I have such a better understanding and grip on this. You have turned my frustration to a refreshed enthusiasm.
Hallelujah!

Really glad to read this. Just remember that we usually focus on deficiency, but the same symptoms can occasionally manifest from too much of something. I hope its a deficiency as this is the easier problem to correct usually.

 

HI All,

Wraithen is correct that sometimes an over-abundance of one nutrient can effect the uptake of another nutrient and cause a deficiency. However, in my experience I have found most often it is a lack of something that is causing a deficiency to occur. Also, adding more of the indicated lacking nutrient is much easier than trying to determine which of several nutrients may be in excess.

 

HI Kader,

Wishing you a wonderful new year!

It's been a month and I thought I would do a quick follow-up - have you made some changes and what were the results?

 

Happy New year to you too, and thanks for your followup.
Not much improvement in the beginning, but recently I have been adding minerals which started to turn things around. New growth is starting and I look forward to taking some photos and posting them soon. Been busy during the holidays so ...
I used salty shrimp GHKH+ to remineralise and I also am dosing some plant fertiliser.