Danios - Smarter thank we thought

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Fishface

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Well, I caught my zabra danios pulling a clever little trick on my featherfin cat, today. His shrimp pellets sank, and he didn't see them in time...the danios, not able to eat very well of the ground because of the placement of their mouths, slapped the water with their tails to swirl the grounded food into the water - they promptly ate my cat's shrimp pellets!!!


Clever little beasts.




Ashley
 

COBettaCouple

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lol.. that is pretty smart of them. funny how smart these fish can be - especially when it comes to food.
 

Luniyn

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I've noticed a similar behavior with my fish lately. They all seem to love the Cory cats shrimp pellets! The Dwarf Gourami will get a few of the flakes from the top, but mostly waits until they start to fall down to get them so he can wait down by where I drop the shrimp pellets. Once I drop the shrimp pellets, he will either try to take bites from the one's he sees or wait until a cory cat hovers over on to eat and then just go to wherever they are and move them aside to get a few bites of his own. My red-eyed tetras have taken to this nature as well, however, the pellets are too large for them to bit at first. So they wait until they have been eaten at for a while and are smaller. Then when one is not actively being eaten, one of the tetras will dart in and grab it in their mouth and carry it off like a football to the back of the tank. Then they will try to bite it without letting it drop. Of course it eventually drops and as it's falling another will dive in to catch it. It becomes a game of keep it off the ground and is very funny to watch. But yes, I've had to start dropping more pellets now since everyone seems to like them
 

Luniyn

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I use the . I went with this brand because it's the only one that doesn't have any ash or phosphates in it. Of course they don't say 0.0% of both either, they simply don't list anything and just because they don't list it doesn't mean they don't have it. So I am a little suspicious but then again my fish like it so I'm not complaining yet. I've looked at the Omega One website but I can't find anywhere what their contents are and I haven't remember to look when I see it in the stores. I hear it's a good brand though so one of these days I'll have to check it out.
 
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Fishface

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Luniyn,

Here are the ingredients for my Omega One shrimp pellets, right off of the container:

"Whole Shrimp, Whole Salmon, Cod, Whole Herring, Wheat Flour, Whean Gluten Lecithi, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl -2-Phosphate (source of Vitamin C), Natural and artificial colors, Vitamin A, Acetae, Vitamin D3 supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic acid, Folic acid, biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (preservative), Ethoxyquin (preservative)


Hope that sheds some light!
 

COBettaCouple

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Luniyn said:
I've noticed a similar behavior with my fish lately. They all seem to love the Cory cats shrimp pellets! The Dwarf Gourami will get a few of the flakes from the top, but mostly waits until they start to fall down to get them so he can wait down by where I drop the shrimp pellets. Once I drop the shrimp pellets, he will either try to take bites from the one's he sees or wait until a cory cat hovers over on to eat and then just go to wherever they are and move them aside to get a few bites of his own. My red-eyed tetras have taken to this nature as well, however, the pellets are too large for them to bit at first. So they wait until they have been eaten at for a while and are smaller. Then when one is not actively being eaten, one of the tetras will dart in and grab it in their mouth and carry it off like a football to the back of the tank. Then they will try to bite it without letting it drop. Of course it eventually drops and as it's falling another will dive in to catch it. It becomes a game of keep it off the ground and is very funny to watch. But yes, I've had to start dropping more pellets now since everyone seems to like them
LOL.. that's got to make feeding time a blast. shrimp pellets do seem popular with our fish. everybody likes to eat them.
 

Butterfly

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Yes the Omega One shrimp pellets are excellent. As for Danios. The ones I have in the loach tank catch them before they fall to the bottom and even though they are too big for them to eat right away they will carry them in their mouth and suck on them then spit them out and catch them again until it's all gone. they are so funny.
Carol
 

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Does the container show the % of Fat, Protein, Fiber, Ash, Phosphate, etc.? That is really the info I'm looking for, and mostly the Ash and Phosphate %.
 

Butterfly

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%'s-min. crude protein-3%
min crude fat-8%
max crude fiber-2%
max moisture-8.5%
max ash-10%
min. phosphorus-.5%
min omega 3-2%
min omega6-1%
no phosphate listed- Why are you wanting to limit these particular things?
The reason I like Omega One is because it is made from whole fish, not the leftovers. So many foods have fish meal as the first ingredient and that what fish meal is - leftovers from some other process.
carol
 
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Fishface

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Butterfly, I'm not at my house right now, but when I get back I'll list those ingredients. I saw them on there.
 

Luniyn

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Not that I want to limit but Ash and Phosphorus (yeah meant that not phosphate) are the bad parts of the food that I'm trying to keep to a minimum in my tank. I'm kind of surprised at those levels though. Most of the stuff I've seen had protein counts in the 30%-50% range, more fiber, and less fat. For example, the O.S.I. shrimp pellets I'm using (yes they use fish meal which I don't particularly love either) has min. 38% Crude Protein, min. 2% Crude Fat, and max. 8% Crude Fiber. I wonder why the levels are so different?
 
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Fishface

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Luniyn,

The level of protein is probably way higher to cater to the nutrition needs of the fish

here is it, listed under "Guaranteed Analysis"

min. crude protein-38%
min crude fat-8%
max crude fiber-2%
max moisture-8.5%
max ash-10%
min. phosphorus-.5%
min omega 3-2%
min omega6-1%
Min. Phosphorous-(.5%)

ash. that cant be good.
 

Butterfly

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yep fishface thats what mine says also. In the wild fish eat fish. Thats what is in the Omega One foods - whole fish, so they get a more natural food.
I think I'm still confused why are ash and phosphorus not good for fish ?
Carol
 
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Fishface

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I dont even know if they really are bad..it just seems like they would be
 

Gargoyle

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Thanks for sharing your Danio story... Makes me feel better about the strange things mine do.. ;D
 

Luniyn

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The more research I do about fish foods, the more I want to only feed my fish home made foods. The tricks these guys pull to make their food look good is just way beyond me. For example, when you look at the ingredients of fish food, like regular food, the order in which the parts are listed equal how much of that ingredient is in the food. So if you see Shrimp Meal, Wheat Flour, Fish Meal, etc., it basically means that Shrimp Meal makes up the majority of the content of each serving of that food, Wheat Flour is the 2nd most involved ingredient, Fish Meal the 3rd, etc. Ok so we get that, but how about in that Omega One food. They list their first ingredients as "Whole Shrimp, Whole Salmon, Cod, Whole Herring, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten Lecithi...". Sound great right? I mean the first 4 ingredients are actual fish and shrimp and it's not till the 5th and 6th ingredient that you get to the fillers of Wheat Flour and Wheat Gluten. Wheat Flour was the 2nd ingredient on that list I gave before, so the Omega One must be pretty good. However, what I've found was that in actuality the Omega One ingredients "should" read like this "Fresh Fish, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten...." Suddenly it's not looking as good with the Wheat Flour and Wheat Gluten fillers as the 2nd and 3rd ingredients. So instead they spread out the "Fresh Fish" part to be 4 different kinds of whole fish, which of course looks better especially since they say that whole fish is better then Fish Meal. However, this isn't true either. Here is a post from the University of Florida's Dept. of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, "Fishmeal is recognized by nutritionists as a high-quality, very digestible feed ingredient that is favored for addition to the diet of most farm animals, especially fish and shrimp. Fishmeal carries large quantities of energy per unit weight and is an excellent source of protein, lipids (oils), minerals, and vitamins."

Another problem of many fish foods is a high fat content. A study done on African Cichlids by the University of Florida that was published in the North American Journal of Aquaculture said that "fat levels over 10% were found to cause serious liver damage if used long term." They also said, "Fatty infiltration of the liver has also been designated the most common metabolic disturbance and most frequent cause of death in aquarium fish." Yes some fat is needed and is healthy, but too much is apparently a really bad thing (so no Atkins diet for my fish ).

Next on the list is Ash. Ash is basically a by-product of the food manufacturing process and is found in all foods. It has 0 nutritional value and basically you want as little of it as possible in your food. In fact, foods that have high levels of ash are said to decrease the rate at which your fish grow. And if some of these companies food has a high ash content, then they just don't mention it (i.e. I'm pretty much throwing out some of the foods I use now >). I haven't found what is considered a "high" level of Ash, but generally I've seem listed 8%-10% on most of the foods I've looked at so far. The only food I don't think would have any ash in it would be frozen foods or freeze dried foods as there isn't any manufacturing to them. They are just frozen live foods. So I'm pretty sure (still researching to be certain) that they are ok if they don't mention their ash content, but other then that, if it isn't mentioned on the label then I can pretty much be certain that you shouldn't buy that food (why do I always have to learn this after I spend the money .

Phosphates on the other hand are a part of all living things and even tap water can add them to your tank. It's not so much the fish you have to worry about here, but phosphates are one of the major contributors to having algae in your tank. Now if you have a planted tank then you pretty much have nothing to worry about as the plants will welcome the phosphates. However, if you are using fake plants (as I am) then the only thing that can get rid of too much phosphates is water changes (provided you don't have a lot of phosphates in your tap water as I understand the people of Chicago have to deal with in great quantities). Otherwise I have to be very careful and diligent in order to keep my water clear as a bell especially without any algae eaters in my tank. Limiting the amount of phosphates I add to the tank through other means is why it's important for me to know how much is coming from the foods I feed my fish.

So what does this long ramble of a post mean? It means I have absolutely no clue what is good anymore in fish foods... LOL! There are a couple of foods that I'm looking into but it's pretty hard to be certain considering most of the "articles" you can read saying this is good or this is bad are usually written by people who sell fish foods on their site.
 
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Fishface

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Wow! Thanks, Luniyn, for your time-consuming but wonderfully educational post!

The search for the best fish foods begins.

My LFS told me the best flake is Sera.
 

Butterfly

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Thanks Luniyn for that great post and all that hard work yep it's a competitive world out there for the fish hobbyist food dollars.
I do use Omega One foods for all my fish and very few other brands, but I use them for the results I see with my fish not because of the brand name. Their energy, appetite,color and spawning record are better with this brand than with any other I've ever used, but thats just my experiences
Carol
 

Luniyn

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No that says a lot about a brand. Maybe that's my problem here... I'm reading all the hype instead of looking at the results. I don't think I've ever read anyone that said they had a problem when using the Omega One brand... well except for people that are trying to sell me another brand that is... lol. I'm gonna have to see who sells it locally here because I've lost faith in the brand I'm using. Weather it's actually good or not, I just have too many doubts to keep using it.

And wow did I ever hijack the heck out of this thread... sorry little Danios.
 
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