Important Cycling with snail

Sb092

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Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 3.5 g
How long has the tank been running? 2 months
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 76
What is the entire stocking of this tank? Rabbit snail

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Mondays
How much of the water do you change? ~2 g
What do you use to treat your water? Top Fin betta starter
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Yes vacuum substrate

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
What do you use to test the water? Api master kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: .25
Nitrite: .25
Nitrate: .0
pH: 7.62

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Once weekly (snail)
How much do you feed your fish? One pellet or wafer
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Hikari
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? Yes

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Both betta and oto passed away recently: had snail about a month
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? Fish were sick treated for velvet, then ick... fish died left with snail
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? No symptoms yet for snail
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Changed water about a 75% change after removing bodies
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? Not that i know of
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? No changes in snail behavior

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
ok Otocinclus came home with velvet and passed it to betta. Betta alerted me of an issue. Treated with api general cure and removed carbon filters per directions. Otocinclus developed ich/ick. Began treating with api super ich. Otocinclus died a few dats ago. Betta died today.
All I have left is Turbo my rabbit snail. I did a 75% water change. Put two new carbon filters in. Also bought a bag of api nitra zorb. The bag was huge for my tank so I cut the bag tied it with a metal sliver from a bread bag (i did remove paper). I placed this inside the filter since my ammonia and nitrite levels are high. Basically I am starting a whole new cycle. Please can anyone give advice on how to get it going faster. Or more information on how to do a fish in (in my case snail in) cycle. I have always done it prior to buying fish.
 

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Chenpoes

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At what point did you take down the parameters of your tank? (are they before or after the big water change, were those the parameters while the fish were still alive or?)
 
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Sb092

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Chenpoes said:
At what point did you take down the parameters of your tank? (are they before or after the big water change, were those the parameters while the fish were still alive or?)
Before and after. Check water and realized some readings were high. Changed water and put nitrazorb in tank to keep ammonia & nitrite from getting any higher. Will continue to do wc daily, but wanted some advice starting a cycle with an animal.
 
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Today 7/3 did about a 25% water change. Took about 1 1/2 g out of the 3.5 g tank. Siphoned out an uneaten pellet of snail food with turkey baster. Also vacuumed gravel during wc. Parameters appear the same with the exception to ammonia the color was between 0-0.25. Any help on how to kick start the development of nitrates???? I left the bag of nitrazorb in, but will be taking it out after 5 days. I cam across a pdf document from api... there tests showed that nitrate never developed in tests completed. Link for test:

pH: 7.85
Ammonia: 0-0.25
Nitrite : 0.25
Nitrate: 0
 

Chenpoes

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My guess is your tank was never fully cycled and thats why the fish passed. As for the oto, they're a schooling fish that needs friends and your tank is too small for them, plus they also tend to need live algae to stay alive. And on a last note, weekly seems a bit too long to wait to feed a snail, I'd be doing it every other day at least and syphoning out the leftovers. As for cycling, a snail-in cycle might not be able to do the job. I doubt a single snail will be able to create the cycle needed to maintain fish in the tank, however if you can get a couple more snails it might be possible. Your best bet right now is to either try to get the tank to cycle to your snail so the ammonia doesn't hurt it, or at the pet store pick up some nitrifying bacteria. Just make sure the date isn't too far back on those, they don't last long. My favorite is seachem stability though. Also for immediate effects, some seachem prime will detoxify the ammonia immediately/temporarily.
 
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Sb092

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Chenpoes said:
My guess is your tank was never fully cycled and thats why the fish passed. As for the oto, they're a schooling fish that needs friends and your tank is too small for them, plus they also tend to need live algae to stay alive. And on a last note, weekly seems a bit too long to wait to feed a snail, I'd be doing it every other day at least and syphoning out the leftovers. As for cycling, a snail-in cycle might not be able to do the job. I doubt a single snail will be able to create the cycle needed to maintain fish in the tank, however if you can get a couple more snails it might be possible. Your best bet right now is to either try to get the tank to cycle to your snail so the ammonia doesn't hurt it, or at the pet store pick up some nitrifying bacteria. Just make sure the date isn't too far back on those, they don't last long. My favorite is seachem stability though. Also for immediate effects, some seachem prime will detoxify the ammonia immediately/temporarily.
Thank you. I appreciate the suggestions. Tank was cycled when fish were in tank. Fish became sick, treated tank, and the treatments killed off good bacteria. Also, was told to take carbon filters out while treating... taking the filters out also took out my beneficial bacteria. Also had to take out decorations so meds would not stain. This also removed beneficial bacteria. Yes otos are schooling fish, and i was a victim of non informed pet store associate when I purchased. And yes the tank is too small and I did overstock. I will try to find some sort of beneficial bacteria at local pet stores. I have seen Seachem prime... but can I use seachem prime while using top fin betta water conditioner??
 

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Sb092 said:
Today 7/3 did about a 25% water change. Took about 1 1/2 g out of the 3.5 g tank. Siphoned out an uneaten pellet of snail food with turkey baster. Also vacuumed gravel during wc. Parameters appear the same with the exception to ammonia the color was between 0-0.25. Any help on how to kick start the development of nitrates???? I left the bag of nitrazorb in, but will be taking it out after 5 days. I cam across a pdf document from api... there tests showed that nitrate never developed in tests completed. Link for test:

pH: 7.85
Ammonia: 0-0.25
Nitrite : 0.25
Nitrate: 0
I am not sure you understand the cycling process. What you are aiming for is 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. If you have an ammonia source you will eventually see nitrates but that isn't the main goal. The main goal is growing enough ammonia eating bacteria to remove the ammonia. The waste product of that ammonia eating bacteria is nitrites. Soon you will start growing a bacteria that eats those nitrites. Once it starts growing the nitrites will start going down and only then will you see nitrates.

With just the one snail in this tank you won't be growing a big amount of bacteria. A tank will only grow enough bacteria to process the amount of ammonia produced. You need to take that nitra-zorb out of this tank. To cycle a tank it has to have ammonia so you don't want something in there pulling it out as it is being produced. As long as the nitra-zorb is in there you aren't going to see any nitrates because there will be no ammonia to feed the cycle.

Like I told you in your other thread you can use Prime to detox the small amount of ammonia and nitrites you are seeing in this tank. Prime doesn't remove them like nitra-zorb does. It just changes them to a safer form but they are still there to feed the cycle. This tank won't cycle if the small amount of ammonia your snail is producing is being removed with the nitra-zorb.

You don't need to use both Prime and your Top fin water conditioner. They are both water conditioners so no need to use both.

Keep in mind, this tank is only going to grow enough bacteria to handle the waste of the one snail. It won't grow enough to also handle the waste of another fish so if you add one you may see temporary spikes in ammonia and nitrites as the tank grows more bacteria.
 
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Sb092

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mattgirl said:
I am not sure you understand the cycling process. What you are aiming for is 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. If you have an ammonia source you will eventually see nitrates but that isn't the main goal. The main goal is growing enough ammonia eating bacteria to remove the ammonia. The waste product of that ammonia eating bacteria is nitrites. Soon you will start growing a bacteria that eats those nitrites. Once it starts growing the nitrites will start going down and only then will you see nitrates.

With just the one snail in this tank you won't be growing a big amount of bacteria. A tank will only grow enough bacteria to process the amount of ammonia produced. You need to take that nitra-zorb out of this tank. To cycle a tank it has to have ammonia so you don't want something in there pulling it out as it is being produced. As long as the nitra-zorb is in there you aren't going to see any nitrates because there will be no ammonia to feed the cycle.

Like I told you in your other thread you can use Prime to detox the small amount of ammonia and nitrites you are seeing in this tank. Prime doesn't remove them like nitra-zorb does. It just changes them to a safer form but they are still there to feed the cycle. This tank won't cycle if the small amount of ammonia your snail is producing is being removed with the nitra-zorb.

You don't need to use both Prime and your Top fin water conditioner. They are both water conditioners so no need to use both.

Keep in mind, this tank is only going to grow enough bacteria to handle the waste of the one snail. It won't grow enough to also handle the waste of another fish so if you add one you may see temporary spikes in ammonia and nitrites as the tank grows more bacteria.
Thank you . I do understand the cycling process. You can cycle a tank without fish. So I am not worried about the snail producing enough waste to start the cycle. I am worried about the elevated ammonia levels killing the snail while I try to start a while new cycle. The parameters before the fish died were correct with 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and I had nitrate before the treatment of fish.
I understand the snail will not produce enough waste, but fish food is also another way to get a cycle going without fish. So I am not sure why it is coming down to a snail won’t produce enough for a cycle to take place? If a tank can be cycled without Fish, having one snail should not affect the process, but elevated ammonia and nitrites will kill the snail. So once again I am seeking advice on how to kick start the process without killing the snail???
 

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Gotcha :) I don't know about rabbit snails but I feel sure elevated ammonia won't hurt what are considered by most as pest snails (pond. bladder, ramshorns). Can you possibly move your snail to another container until you get this cycle back on track. If so you will be able to get the ammonia level up enough to cycle this tank without having to worry about your little guy.

As long as you keep his water clean he should be fine in a smaller container with nothing more than an airstone running in it. Maybe a tiny bit of substrate and a small plant in there should keep him comfortable until the cycle in the tank is complete.
 

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