Cycling with plants

That is a possible option, yes. Just remember that TSS is a bacterial additive and needs to be added with fish. Without an ammonia source, the bottled bacteria will just die off. Once TSS is add, let the tank do it's own thing for 14 days. Once the 14 days are up you should be cycled. If you want, you have test while using TSS. Contrary to popular believe, TSS does not affect the test results and watching your tank cycle is actually fun (at least it is to me).

You can add the plants once the filter is on in the aquarium.

 

You can add plants without a heater, but they do need water circulation so I wouldn't go without a filter for too long.

Well, I don't even have the tank upstairs or filled yet, so I'll probably just wait until I have the filter to add plants. Lol I'm just exploring my options at the moment because I have to wait for my best friend to come over and help me move it. My mom was going to help me, but she's been laid low by a cold, sonit didn't seem fair to ask, and my dad has chronic back problems and isn't allowed to lift anything over 5 pounds. Give him credit, though, he likes to come admire my tanks and even spotted a fry popping up out if the gravel from 8 feet away!

 

[Updated] - 1/6/2014
So far I have my 40 gallon tank here and the rest of the equipment should be getting here in about 6 days or so (hopefully). The tank and other specifications are listed below as well as my two questions.

A. I plan on getting some driftwood from a LFS that comes with some anubias. I haven't been by the store yet but if the driftwood has been sitting in the water with the anubias the whole time, would it be safe to assume that I don't have to boil the driftwood? If the driftwood has not been sitting in water and is separate from the anubias, I plan on boiling it to make sure it is ready to go.
Thanks to the great people here I have now changed my plant selection. I've been looking at the many plant profiles and I've decided on Water Wisteria and Ludwigia. I am still going to get the driftwood since I will need it for the BN pleco but I will not be getting the anubias. I have a pretty tall tank so the fast growing wisteria should do great in the back corner of the tank. Once it starts to get some good growth going I should be able to propagate it and spread it along the back of the tank. The Ludwigia will kept in the midground of the tank. I do not plan on using any fertilizers so while it will have sufficient light, I'm hoping to keep it relatively small compared to its maximum size.
B. The tank is currently empty and I was wondering if I should wait to introduce the plants until the tank is already cycled or if adding the plants would help speed up the cycling process. I plan on using the Tetra Safe Start and will also sprinkle in some crushed flake food in order to introduce some ammonia into the tank (after getting some initial readings). I plan on having anubias and java ferns in the tank. So to sum that up: With the use of TSS and daily flake food, as an ammonia source, can I add the java ferns and anubias into the tank while it cycles?
I did a good bit of research in regards to the TSS and I figured that I would share my plan. There is a daily plan listed in another post further down so I will be pretty brief:
Day 1: Prepare driftwood (boil/soak) and then add it to the tank with the substrate and plants. Take/record baseline water readings
Day 2: Add the TSS, wait 30 minutes, take/record water readings, and then add three rosey barbs assuming the readings aren't terrible.
Day 3: More readings
After that the plan consists of readings every other day and after about two weeks I hope that it will be well cycled and I can add the remaining 3 rosey barbs to the tank along with the loaches and BN pleco (all spaced out with at least a week in between).



Tank
40 gallon Marineland Tall
Aqueon 400GpH filter
Aqueon 300 watt heater
Two ~25-30 watt CFLs
Ludwigia
Water Wisteria

 

yes the plants will go through the cycle. If it speeds it, I can't say. Considering you're getting java fern and anubias they aren't going to make much of a difference since they are slowww growers.

TSS must be used with fish in the aquarium. Search the forums for specific details on how to use it correctly, since it is very easy to mess up.

 

The plants will be fine in the cycle, but like atc said you're not going to see them make much of an impact. Generally stem plants like ludwigia, wisteria, and hornwort are better for sucking up nitrogen. As for the driftwood, think about this: If it's already in the store's tank, then what else is in there? Go through the usual steps to get rid of snails the like.

 

Thanks for all the help and I did do a good bit more research in regards to the TSS. I also looked into the ludwigia and I might swap out the java fern for that since it is a fast grower and the tank I am using is pretty tall. Once all the boxes get here the following plan will come into play:

Day 1:
- Boxes arrive, be really happy, disregard everything else in my life and put it together
- Boil my driftwood for a few hours so that it doesn't float and then add it to the tank.
Day 2:
- After 24 hours of running the tank with conditioned water, take a baseline reading of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.
- Add the java ferns/ludwigia and anubias to the tank
- Add TSS to the tank
- Run to the store, pick up three rosey barbs and introduce them to the tank
Day 3:
- Wait
Day 4:
- First water test to make sure nothing is extremely high
Day 5:
- Wait
Day 6:
- Wait
Day 7:
- Second water test
Day 8:
- Wait
Day 9:
- Wait:
Day 10:
- Third water test showing that I am fully cycled (I hope)
Day 11:
- Wait
Day 12:
- Wait
Day 13:
- Wait
Day 14:
- Fourth test confirming that I am fully cycled (Once again, I hope)

After all of this is complete, I hope to have some steady readings and start adding the rest of the fish. First I will add the remaining 3 rosey barbs so that I can have a good size school for them and then I plan on adding 10 black kuhlI loaches to the tank. I'm hoping to add 3 first, then another 3 a week later, and then add the remaining 4 about a week after that. A week after all 10 loaches are in the tank and readings are still acceptable, I plan on adding the BN Pleco to complete my tank since I've heard that they are a bit sensitive.

 

The only problem I see is you need to test your water every day when your doing a fish-in-cycle and I would do daily test for longer then 2 weeks. Also you might think about adding 3 rosy barbs and then waiting a few days for your bacteria to catch up before you add the other 3, the same goes with your loaches I wouldn't add any more the 3 or 4 at a time.

 

The only problem I see is you need to test your water every day when your doing a fish-in-cycle and I would do daily test for longer then 2 weeks. Also you might think about adding 3 rosy barbs and then waiting a few days for your bacteria to catch up before you add the other 3, the same goes with your loaches I wouldn't add any more the 3 or 4 at a time.

The reason for only doing the test every few days is that according to tetra's, I'm not even supposed to do water changes for two weeks unless things get extremely out of hand. I will also be testing the water every few days even after the two weeks until I have a stable and established tank and even then I will test it at least once a week.

My original plan was to do the same thing when it comes to stocking the tank and only putting in a few fish at a time but after reading the Q & A with Tetra about TSS I changed my mind and went with adding a few more since it says that I should put in the full stock right away. That seamed a bit risky and way too much for the bioload so I was going to compromise and just put in around 5-6.

 

The reason for only doing the test every few days is that according to tetra's, I'm not even supposed to do water changes for two weeks unless things get extremely out of hand. I will also be testing the water every few days even after the two weeks until I have a stable and established tank and even then I will test it at least once a week.

My original plan was to do the same thing when it comes to stocking the tank and only putting in a few fish at a time but after reading the Q & A with Tetra about TSS I changed my mind and went with adding a few more since it says that I should put in the full stock right away. That seamed a bit risky and way too much for the bioload so I was going to compromise and just put in around 5-6.

Tetra states that you can fully stock when necessary, such as in the case of African cichlids, where understocking can cause aggression. Normally, they recommend 1 small fish per 10 gallons while cycling. If you do fully stock, feed lightly as there will be a lot of ammonia that the bacteria will need to process and you shouldn't further overwhelm it by creating extra ammonia.

 

Tetra states that you can fully stock when necessary, such as in the case of African cichlids, where understocking can cause aggression. Normally, they recommend 1 small fish per 10 gallons while cycling. If you do fully stock, feed lightly as there will be a lot of ammonia that the bacteria will need to process and you shouldn't further overwhelm it by creating extra ammonia.

Good point. I am thinking that I should drop the number in half. It's a 40 gallon tank so 3 rosy barbs at the start. and then periodically adding some more as the tank adjusts to the increased bioload.

 

Might I make a suggestion?

Do a fishless cycle. It's just kinder to the fish.

 

Might I make a suggestion?

Do a fishless cycle. It's just kinder to the fish.

That was one of the options but I'm going to be using TSS which is supposed to have fish in the tank with it.

 

My plants should be here tomorrow, I got
Italian val
dwarf sag
tiger lotus
dwarf lily
dwarf hair grass
java fern


My tank currently is empty with no water in it, can I add these plants the same time I add the water? Or do I have to cycle first.

 

How are you planning on cycling your tank?
Fish-in? Ammonia/fishless cycle?

I think it depends - I have done both and with the fishless/ammonia cycle, a lot of my plants died - they couldn't take the concentration of the ammonia.
I know my Vals all died, I didn't have any of the others you listed so you might want to double check.

What size is your tank and what occupants do you plan on having? Some of those plants may be tasty treats too for some fish and inverts....

 

How are you planning on cycling your tank?
Fish-in? Ammonia/fishless cycle?

I think it depends - I have done both and with the fishless/ammonia cycle, a lot of my plants died - they couldn't take the concentration of the ammonia.
I know my Vals all died, I didn't have any of the others you listed so you might want to double check.

What size is your tank and what occupants do you plan on having? Some of those plants may be tasty treats too for some fish and inverts....

It's a 45 gallon tank and I plan on doing a fish cycle with a few zebra danios

I plan on stocking the tank with
8 neon tetra
6 harlequin rasbora
6 corys
1 dwarf gourami
1 bristlenose pleco
And possibly 2 clown killifish

 

The plants should love the ammonium from the fish. They will compete with the bacteria in your filter for it.

Kudos on 6 corys. They love to school, and so many people only add one or two of them.

I have never done an ammonia cycle. It just rubs my brain the wrong way.

Junne, seriously? 10k plus posts? Wow

 

The plants should love the ammonium from the fish. They will compete with the bacteria in your filter for it.

Kudos on 6 corys. They love to school, and so many people only add one or two of them.

I have never done an ammonia cycle. It just rubs my brain the wrong way.

yeah, I like corys, I'll probably end up getting more then 6

 

Hello,
I am two weeks into cycling my 55 gallon tank with a small handful of plants. Just wondering if these parameters are normal for this stage?

Ammonia .25
Nitrite 5
Nitrate 40

The nitrite and nitrate seem very high....
No fish in the tank.

Thanks!

 

HI

What's your ammonia source and have you tested your tap parameters?

 

Keep dozing your ammonia up to 4ppm. Check the readings every few days. Eventually, ammonia will read zero, and nitrites, and nitrates will be off of the chart. That's when you'll want to do a good 50% water change to get those numbers down. Keep an eye on things, and keep dosing the ammonia to 4ppm. When the nitrites, and ammonia are both to 0, you are almost there. When the tank can process the 4ppm ammonia to zero in 24hrs(with no nitrite present) you're ready for fish. Just make sure to do a huge water change(90%) the day before you add fish. Otherwise, keep dosing the ammonia to 1ppm up until that time. The day before fish 90% water change will get the nitrAtes in check.

 

Plants don't really help with cycling since they don't add ammonia thus you don't actually have a cycled tank. The plants will only absorb the nitrates! How did you cycle you aquarium? Ammonia source? Did you add a bottle of BB such as Tetra Safe Start or Seachem Stability?

 

Plants don't really help with cycling since they don't add ammonia thus you don't actually have a cycled tank. The plants will only absorb the nitrates! How did you cycle you aquarium? Ammonia source? Did you add a bottle of BB such as Tetra Safe Start or Seachem Stability?

I am not using ammonia....I read adding fish food will cycle the tank? And I added the fluval bb...don't remember what it was called. And I realize it's not cycled...just wondering if these readings were normal thus far, especially since I thought the plants would use nitrates, but wondering why are they so high? And the nitrites are very high :s

 

Fish food is an ammonia source! What types of plants did you add? In order to lower nitrates you want to do water changes, since your cycling you can do a 50% water change!

 

To be honest not 100% sure my plant types I know low tech tho lol how often should I do these water changes and how long after a water change before I do another test? Using master test kit and Seachem prime to treat water. Thank you for the help!

 

Fish food can be used but as you can see it's harder to control the amount of ammonia being produced. Ideally, using pure ammonia would be better. Your nitrites are too high right now and so you risk stalling your cycle.

If you can grab a bottle of pure ammonia and Tetra Safestart Plus, we can walk you through the process. But definitely do a large water change and remove the fish food so that your nitrites are down close to 0.

 

Ok quick question,

I sort of understand the cycle process and am leaning towards fish less with the pure ammonia cycle. What brands/sources of ammonia are you all using?

As I plan to somewhat aqua scape to the best of my abilities and have planted as much as possible from day one, how does pure ammonia affect the plants? And at what stage can I or should I start fertilization of plants? Low tech easy plants no CO2

Also with water changes should I be doing any in the first 2-3 weeks or just waiting for ammonia and nitrite levels to settle and then water change to reduce nitrates?

Thanks

Also anyone use the Dr Tim’s products?

Also looking at seachem stability to help things out

 

I haven't use Dr. Tim's products but the general consensus seems to be that they are pretty good

Excellent on planting heavily from day 1, great for algae prevention. Plants will use pure ammonia as a nitrogen source, so no problem for them. Dose ferts from day 1 too, unless you have a soil substrate.

The iffy sort of thing about doing a brand new cycle with plants is newly planted tanks ideally get daily water changes the first week, every other day the second, every three days the third, etc as a way of algae prevention. As you can imagine this is disastrous for any bacterial starter. However, plants should start to grow nicely after a couple of weeks, and can deal with a slow introduction of bioload on their own. Then the filter can finish up cycling. At least, that's what I would do.

 

Thanks, tank will be mainly aqua soil for planted areas with sand towards the front. Although will be using Java fern and Anubias on driftwood/rock also, Should I hold off on ferts for a while?

Was also planning on using seachem stability or the dr Tim’s equivalent to help establish good bacteria in the filter media. Should I be looking at small water changes during this period?

 

The plants you mentioned feed from the water column so ferts would help.

I’ve heard the advice Mak posted in the past but I have never done it.

 

Thanks, tank will be mainly aqua soil for planted areas with sand towards the front. Although will be using Java fern and Anubias on driftwood/rock also, Should I hold off on ferts for a while?

Was also planning on using seachem stability or the dr Tim’s equivalent to help establish good bacteria in the filter media. Should I be looking at small water changes during this period?

If you have aqua soil (the ADA brand) you won’t need pure ammonia then, it leeches a lot of ammonia on its own, which is another reason for water changes. The leeching will feed the Java fern and anubias should be good for a few weeks.
I think unlike TSS (and maybe Dr. Tim’s?) Stability works with prime, so water changes aren’t too bad, I’d just be concerned about removing the bacteria from the water before enough makes its way to the filter. Maybe someone more knowledgable about Stability can help there

 

Thanks guys,

Anyone else have experience with aqua soil during the cycling process and did you add an additional ammonia source?

 

I’m not.

But I would test your water. If it’s not to 2ppm, you should add pure ammonia to get it to 2ppm.

I’ve started 2 dirty tanks, with 2 different potting mixes.

One leeched ammonia to 8ppm. I had added 2 seasoned double sponge filters but they couldn’t keep up with the ammonia. I added a third, dosed with TetraSafeStart directly into the sponge and was cycled in 8 days.

 

Hey all -
Long time lurker, haven't had tanks in about 5 years now. Had multiple tanks in the past (5-150 gallons).

I've never had a planted tank, and I haven't had to cycle a virgin tank in a LONG time.
I've purchased a home & am about to start setting up the tanks again.
My question is this - is cycling the same with plants? Do I need to know anything special about it?
I've thought about getting seeded media from a LFS to help speed up the process, but know that runs high risks with disease. I unfortunately do not have anyone I know with tanks.

I read somewhere that EcoComplete helps cycle a tank faster, does anyone have experience with this? I've used Tetra SafeStart in the past for smaller tanks, but haven't used it in years obviously.

Last thing - anyone have any LFS they recommend in the southern NY area? I'm in the Hudson Valley & everything local to me has closed over the past 5 years.

Thanks in advance!

 

You don't have to cycle a planted tank if you do this:

Buy as many plants as you can from day 1. Plant the tank as you wish and fill it up / get it running. Focus on establishing the plants in the tank. This alone will take a month or so. Focus on getting a good fertilizer / water change / CO2 regime going. During this time, the tank will cycle slowly. Add a couple of fish after you've got the plants growing well, and algae suppressed. Watch your parameters, but a couple of fish in a healthy planted tank ~ 1 month old shouldn't result in any ammonia. Then, slowly build up your stocking over several weeks.

5-6 hours a day lighting max to start. New tanks are tough to keep algae free.

Don't buy Eco-Complete... focus the money on something else. Eco-Complete is an inert substrate that comes with bacteria on it... It's essentially crushed lava rock which provides nothing for the plants to feed off of.

 

Exciting that you are ready to set up new tanks again!

Plants will use up ammonium first, then nitrate, so they will consume some of the ammonia/um before nitrosonomas bacteria does, lessening the effects of ammonia toxicity. With just a few fish and lots of plants growing well, I agree, you might not even see ammonia registering.

But I would still do all the testing and water changes when you need them. So many variables, no tank is the same.

Yea, Eco complete is a waste of money, I didn't see any help in my 120 gallon . But ADA soil releases ammonia at first which would provide food for nitrosonomas bacteria and start the cycle without fish. Same goes for potting soil.

 

Exciting that you are ready to set up new tanks again!

Plants will use up ammonium first, then nitrate, so they will consume some of the ammonia/um before nitrosonomas bacteria does, lessening the effects of ammonia toxicity. With just a few fish and lots of plants growing well, I agree, you might not even see ammonia registering.

But I would still do all the testing and water changes when you need them. So many variables, no tank is the same.

Yea, Eco complete is a waste of money, I didn't see any help in my 120 gallon . But ADA soil releases ammonia at first which would provide food for nitrosonomas bacteria and start the cycle without fish. Same goes for potting soil.

What substrate do you recommend? I did see a soil substrate listed on Amazon, I'm just not familiar with it. Is normal potting soil okay to use? Should I add sand or something similar on top to keep down any clouding of the water?

 

What substrate do you recommend? I did see a soil substrate listed on Amazon, I'm just not familiar with it. Is normal potting soil okay to use? Should I add sand or something similar on top to keep down any clouding of the water?

Plain sand or fine gravel is easiest to keep clean and super easy to plant / remove plants from. Pool filter sand, black diamond blasting sand are the cheapest options. We can easily supply plants with everything they need via fertilizers for pennies. No nutrients in substrate required.

“Heavy root feeders” is a myth....

 

Plain sand or fine gravel is easiest to keep clean and super easy to plant / remove plants from. Pool filter sand, black diamond blasting sand are the cheapest options. We can easily supply plants with everything they need via fertilizers for pennies. No nutrients in substrate required.

“Heavy root feeders” is a myth....

Do you have any books or websites that you recommend to help a beginner with plants? I'm just finding so much conflicting info. Do you use CO2 injection in your tank? I was going to try to go for a low tech 29 gal. first, and then see how it goes from there

 

Do you have any books or websites that you recommend to help a beginner with plants? I'm just finding so much conflicting info. Do you use CO2 injection in your tank? I was going to try to go for a low tech 29 gal. first, and then see how it goes from there

No books, you can sign up on a planted tank forum and also ask questions here in the planted tank section.

No CO2 is perfectly fine, I’m currently running my tank without CO2.

Obviously CO2 makes growing plants easier, but it’s easy to have a beautiful tank without if you plan things out correctly, and have patience of course.

 

Hi Fish Folks

I'm starting a 10 gallon planted tank. I'd like to cycle it with plants only. I want to make sure I have my steps in order before buying any plants.

Some background...
10 gallon Hex
Flourite substrate with a river sand section
Some slate and spider wood hardscape
Aquaclear 20 HOB
Finnex Stingray II light
300w heater

I have the materials, but nothing is in the tank yet. My goal is to establish a well planted tank then put in some chili Rasboras and eventually some cherry shrimp.

I plan on using distilled water to start. Is this good? Should I add anything to it before putting the water in the tank?

I was planning on running everything with water only for a few days to ensure all the equipment is working properly. Sound good?

Should I add anything to the cycling water before adding plants? I have seachem equilibrium, which I plan on using to restore mineral content. I also have seachem flourish excel, not sure if this is a before during or after addition I have root tabs on hand and will use them with rooting plants when adding them. Sound correct? Any suggestions?

I'm planning on adding a few plants to start. Easy stuff. Java fern, crypts, anubias Nana, Java moss, duckweed. Other suggestions?

I plan on doing some sort of dip for the plants before placing them, depending on the plant. Suggestions?

Once the plants are in, what can I expect from a tank cycle? How fast? When should I start testing?

Other suggestions? I've done soft corals in a salt tank before, but this is my first planted freshwater tank.

Thanks in advance for your input.