Cycling With Fish? :/ | Page 3

  1. Kitetra Initiate Member

    hello there! I would say it has been two days since the last water change, im in holiday so days are kinda a vague indicator of whats happening lol... I did add more TSS, Bactozyme and filter active (still from tetra,anyone knows it?) yesterday afternoon, I have Tetras water test set but it doesnt have NO3 so I went and got just the NO3 liquid test from tetra. I also read up on tetras ph/kh minus, it says that I could use it to neutralize ammonia if needed, adding 25ml x 100 liters of water, but also that my tank should be areated? (Like an airstone?) Until I dont get prime its pretty much all I can work with... im gonna eat then do some liquid water tests later, this is a quick strip test I did just now...

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  2. AllieSten Well Known Member Member

    Your kh/pH will fluctuate during cycling. This is normal. Don't worry too much about it. It will stabilize once you are cycled. It really doesn't detoxify the ammonia very much, a negligible amount really. Just be patient. If your ammonia + nitrites is above 0.5 ppm then do a 50% water change. If it is below 0.5ppm then juast leave of for another day.

  3. Discusluv Well Known Member Member

    This is really terrible advice and patently untrue. To tell the Op that they will lose their cycle if they replace their sponge should be qualified with a description of alternatives to allow them to change out their sponge if they feel the need to. If you don't want to spend the money to do so, don't promote it as the only viable alternative for someone new to the hobby.
    Instead, for instance, you could tell the OP that they can routinely replace the filter sponge when it starts to break down by placing a new sponge behind the dirty one and having the old one reseed the new one ( within a week with newer system).
    A sponge that is left to get beyond disgusting and swished around in dirty water until it disintegrates has no more viable bacteria than a sponge that is carefully reseeded by the old one.
    Beneficial bacteria grows to match the bio-load of the fish contained in the system - you will get no more or stronger bacteria on an old sponge than one that is new and adequately seeded.
    But, you may get, in a sponge that is left in a filter for months, years, (ridiculously! "forever") mechanical media that becomes so layered with mulm due to improper aquarium husbandry that it becomes a haven for potentially toxic bacteria.

  4. Blue Bea Member Member

    @Discusluv thank you for the info it was what I was told here.

  5. Discusluv Well Known Member Member

    I know, many people, even some of the most experienced members on this site say it as if it is an aquarists only alternative. Sorry if I was blunt, sometimes it just frustrates me.
  6. Blue Bea Member Member

    @Discusluv after reading your comment, I decided to bite the bullet and take the hit because I did use the term "if ever" in a flippant manner. I didn't actually mean until the end time. Obviously they will start to break down and/or become clogged with debris to the point that rinsing will no longer clean it. That takes time and by that point, I would hope, most are aware of how to safely change it without destabilizing their tank. It was a thoughtless choice of words and without explanation, I can absolutely see where you, or anyone else, would assume that's what I meant.

    I also meant to come back and answer his question about adding a different filter and that would have likely clarified the process better but life got away from me and I didn't do more than pop in for a few days.

    I'm trying to cycle three tanks right now and doing showings and open houses to sell my house. I want to get them cycled before I move. That way I can transport the media safely and set them up the day we arrive at our new home. I can't let my babies live in a bucket for too long and I didn't want to cycle with fish. I may still have a mini cycle but it will be better for them this way.

    No harm done. That info was important and I should have been more careful with my choice of words.
  7. Kitetra Initiate Member

    Thanks for clearing that up, I was quite worried about it because its actually a bag containing also active carbon, anyhow I did say in the first page that I was gonna order a tetra external 800plus, which I did, my idea was (im still half way due to a "bag" change according to "timer") when I get the external filter in a couple of days, before setting it up kind of suction what I can out of the filter bag to seed it quicker, wait it out with both filters working, and in about two weeks(?) take the whole internal filter thing out, takes way too much space, and I want plants there not a plastic box lol.

    I cant seem to quote you I might just be tired, however bluebea do not worry I understood what you meant by it, it wasnt my intention to take it out soon so I think even if I misunderstood it would have cleared up pretty quick due to the ex800plus arriving :)

    as for anyone else who helped im happy to report that the water parameters are within my no panic zone (not perfect), kind of stable, no more deaths :)happy:) or any sign of stress, even less so since I got my shipment of plants up to now I cant really say the strips have proven that bad, im double checking less and less with the liquid tests (which is a PAIN), when I got no3 liquid test, which I didnt have, it also proved quite consistent with what the strips turned out, I cant stress enough that lighting must be perfect, and to take the pic of the strips with the app is a real pain, you need a steady hand and take the pic exactly in the right spot (or it wont let u take another), but im quite confident that unlike my eyes a camera gets a superb detail of the shade of colour, the liquid test with the app are even worst than the strips so I check those with my eyes, allowing some degree of error, but I think negligible all in all. I think and hope the worst is behind me, my airstone arrived also and I run it a couple hours a day, Against the advice given to me :inpain: I also ordered 8 amano shrimp but I should get them in a couple of weeks, so there should be time to fix any problem, prime and stability from seachem just dispatched and I hope to get them by friday :)

    In my plants I had an hitchhicker, is it a narite snail or some parasite? (My pics wont upload no moar)

    Edit: I havent done any more water changes
  8. Blue Bea Member Member

    Thank you. That makes me feel better. I felt pretty bad. Lol

    If it were me, I would run both filters until you are cycled completely then take the filter bag out of the internal and put it in the external (in addition to what's in the external). The reason why is so that you can have extra media already cycled if you need it. It's good for QT and hospital tanks if you get one.

    What you have now isn't just a bag to hold carbon. The BB grows on the bag itself. You may have already figured that out so disregard if you did.
  9. Kitetra Initiate Member

    So now I ve put a sponge filter in, I have another one to add when the internal filter goes out, im very happy the external filter already has a sponge on the intake, im really itching to take out the internal one.... what if I put the filter bag of the internal filter inside the external filter thing, like in one of the lower "levels"? As usual no more deaths, I also got 3 rcs who are happily cleaning my plants and loving it, a couple neons tried to eat them at first but that seems to have stopped, to the point of the rcs swimming mid tank from a side to the other right in the face of neons... im gonna do a 20% water change even tho theres no urgency... I just feel like I waited long enough? As soon as I understand why my pics dont work I will post one of the acquarium!!

    Seachem prime and stability didnt get here and has returned to amazon due to shipping problems (e.g. damage) so up to when I get the refund I wont be able to re order it..

    Thanks again everyone if it wasnt for you I would have kept doing loads of water changes and I would have never cycled so quick!! Nitrites dont show and nitrates are <1, I was away the whole week end and the only thing, the ph has risen a bit!!!
  10. BettaPonic Member Member

    If you can get media from a disease free cycled tank that is great.
  11. Kitetra Initiate Member

    actually, its one aquarium with 2 filters, I started with the internal filter that was included and that one has all of my filter colonies, I put togheter the external one yesterday and started it, so theres nothing in there, the consensus here (me too) was to leave 2 filters running for a while, only:

    1) The internal filter doesnt have an intake protection for the rcs

    2) even at a reduced flow the external filter combined with the internal one causes a lot of movement the neons seem to love it at times, rcs, not so much.

    3) taking one of the filters out at a later time wouldnt cause me to have a mini cycle because of a "balance" between two competing filters?
    My idea is to take the active carbon out the internal filter bag, put a bit of that media on the external filter sponge discs, and the bag itself just after the solid media of the filter, so two levels up, before the rest of the sponges.

    Wouldnt that effectivly render the internal filter redundant?

    Is there any downside im unaware of?
  12. Kitetra Initiate Member

    I havent done it yet... should I take the internal filter bag, empty the carbon and put it in the external filter? Or is there a down side im unaware of? Pretty please everything is going so smooth I wouldnt want to f it up lol
  13. AllieSten Well Known Member Member

    The carbon doesn't hold the cycle. You need the actual cloth part or sponge part to transfer the cycle.
  14. Kitetra Initiate Member

    I will try to explain myself better, please remember that english is my fourth language, I want to empty the filter bag from all the carbon (which at some point will be toxic) and throw it away, keeping the cloth bag itself, wash the bag gently in aquarium water to take away any leftover carbon, and put said bag into the external filter, before all of the "new" sponges that im guessing by now are already seeded.

    Edit: the only problem I can think of is that the external filter has more flow than the internal one and the bag could put a strain on it.

    Edit 2: I just did it so yeah i'll let you know...
  15. Kitetra Initiate Member

    So I cant seem to upload anything on the website so here is it!