Cycling with fish?

First, don't change the filter bag in that Easy Crystal until it, literally, falls apart, if ever. You will lose your cycle.

This is really terrible advice and patently untrue. To tell the Op that they will lose their cycle if they replace their sponge should be qualified with a description of alternatives to allow them to change out their sponge if they feel the need to. If you don't want to spend the money to do so, don't promote it as the only viable alternative for someone new to the hobby.
Instead, for instance, you could tell the OP that they can routinely replace the filter sponge when it starts to break down by placing a new sponge behind the dirty one and having the old one reseed the new one ( within a week with newer system).
A sponge that is left to get beyond disgusting and swished around in dirty water until it disintegrates has no more viable bacteria than a sponge that is carefully reseeded by the old one.
Beneficial bacteria grows to match the bio-load of the fish contained in the system - you will get no more or stronger bacteria on an old sponge than one that is new and adequately seeded.
But, you may get, in a sponge that is left in a filter for months, years, (ridiculously! "forever") mechanical media that becomes so layered with mulm due to improper aquarium husbandry that it becomes a haven for potentially toxic bacteria.

 

Discusluv thank you for the info it was what I was told here.

 

Discusluv thank you for the info it was what I was told here.

I know, many people, even some of the most experienced members on this site say it as if it is an aquarists only alternative. Sorry if I was blunt, sometimes it just frustrates me.

 

Discusluv after reading your comment, I decided to bite the bullet and take the hit because I did use the term "if ever" in a flippant manner. I didn't actually mean until the end time. Obviously they will start to break down and/or become clogged with debris to the point that rinsing will no longer clean it. That takes time and by that point, I would hope, most are aware of how to safely change it without destabilizing their tank. It was a thoughtless choice of words and without explanation, I can absolutely see where you, or anyone else, would assume that's what I meant.

I also meant to come back and answer his question about adding a different filter and that would have likely clarified the process better but life got away from me and I didn't do more than pop in for a few days.

I'm trying to cycle three tanks right now and doing showings and open houses to sell my house. I want to get them cycled before I move. That way I can transport the media safely and set them up the day we arrive at our new home. I can't let my babies live in a bucket for too long and I didn't want to cycle with fish. I may still have a minI cycle but it will be better for them this way.

No harm done. That info was important and I should have been more careful with my choice of words.

 

To tell the Op that they will lose their cycle if they replace their sponge should be qualified with a description of alternatives to allow them to change out their sponge if they feel the need to.

Thanks for clearing that up, I was quite worried about it because its actually a bag containing also active carbon, anyhow I did say in the first page that I was gonna order a tetra external 800plus, which I did, my idea was (I'm still half way due to a "bag" change according to "timer") when I get the external filter in a couple of days, before setting it up kind of suction what I can out of the filter bag to seed it quicker, wait it out with both filters working, and in about two weeks(?) take the whole internal filter thing out, takes way too much space, and I want plants there not a plastic box lol.

I can't seem to quote you I might just be tired, however bluebea do not worry I understood what you meant by it, it wasn't my intention to take it out soon so I think even if I misunderstood it would have cleared up pretty quick due to the ex800plus arriving

as for anyone else who helped I'm happy to report that the water parameters are within my no panic zone (not perfect), kind of stable, no more deaths happy or any sign of stress, even less so since I got my shipment of plants up to now I can't really say the strips have proven that bad, I'm double checking less and less with the liquid tests (which is a PAIN), when I got no3 liquid test, which I didnt have, it also proved quite consistent with what the strips turned out, I can't stress enough that lighting must be perfect, and to take the pic of the strips with the app is a real pain, you need a steady hand and take the pic exactly in the right spot (or it won't let u take another), but I'm quite confident that unlike my eyes a camera gets a superb detail of the shade of colour, the liquid test with the app are even worst than the strips so I check those with my eyes, allowing some degree of error, but I think negligible all in all. I think and hope the worst is behind me, my airstone arrived also and I run it a couple hours a day, Against the advice given to me I also ordered 8 amano shrimp but I should get them in a couple of weeks, so there should be time to fix any problem, prime and stability from seachem just dispatched and I hope to get them by friday

In my plants I had an hitchhicker, is it a narite snail or some parasite? (My pics won't upload no moar)

Edit: I haven't done any more water changes

 

Thank you. That makes me feel better. I felt pretty bad. Lol

If it were me, I would run both filters until you are cycled completely then take the filter bag out of the internal and put it in the external (in addition to what's in the external). The reason why is so that you can have extra media already cycled if you need it. It's good for QT and hospital tanks if you get one.

What you have now isn't just a bag to hold carbon. The BB grows on the bag itself. You may have already figured that out so disregard if you did.

 

So now I ve put a sponge filter in, I have another one to add when the internal filter goes out, I'm very happy the external filter already has a sponge on the intake, I'm really itching to take out the internal one.... what if I put the filter bag of the internal filter inside the external filter thing, like in one of the lower "levels"? As usual no more deaths, I also got 3 rcs who are happily cleaning my plants and loving it, a couple neons tried to eat them at first but that seems to have stopped, to the point of the rcs swimming mid tank from a side to the other right in the face of neons... I'm gonna do a 20% water change even tho there's no urgency... I just feel like I waited long enough? As soon as I understand why my pics don't work I will post one of the acquarium!!

Seachem prime and stability didnt get here and has returned to amazon due to shipping problems (e.g. damage) so up to when I get the refund I won't be able to re order it..

Thanks again everyone if it wasn't for you I would have kept doing loads of water changes and I would have never cycled so quick!! Nitrites don't show and nitrates are <1, I was away the whole week end and the only thing, the ph has risen a bit!!!

 

If you can get media from a disease free cycled tank that is great.

 

If you can get media from a disease free cycled tank that is great.

actually, its one aquarium with 2 filters, I started with the internal filter that was included and that one has all of my filter colonies, I put togheter the external one yesterday and started it, so there's nothing in there, the consensus here (me too) was to leave 2 filters running for a while, only:

1) The internal filter doesn't have an intake protection for the rcs

2) even at a reduced flow the external filter combined with the internal one causes a lot of movement the neons seem to love it at times, rcs, not so much.

3) taking one of the filters out at a later time wouldnt cause me to have a minI cycle because of a "balance" between two competing filters?

What you have now isn't just a bag to hold carbon. The BB grows on the bag itself. You may have already figured that out so disregard if you did.

My idea is to take the active carbon out the internal filter bag, put a bit of that media on the external filter sponge discs, and the bag itself just after the solid media of the filter, so two levels up, before the rest of the sponges.

Wouldnt that effectivly render the internal filter redundant?

Is there any downside I'm unaware of?

 

I haven't done it yet... should I take the internal filter bag, empty the carbon and put it in the external filter? Or is there a down side I'm unaware of? Pretty please everything is going so smooth I wouldnt want to f it up lol

 

The carbon doesn't hold the cycle. You need the actual cloth part or sponge part to transfer the cycle.

 

The carbon doesn't hold the cycle. You need the actual cloth part or sponge part to transfer the cycle.

I will try to explain myself better, please remember that english is my fourth language, I want to empty the filter bag from all the carbon (which at some point will be toxic) and throw it away, keeping the cloth bag itself, wash the bag gently in aquarium water to take away any leftover carbon, and put said bag into the external filter, before all of the "new" sponges that I'm guessing by now are already seeded.

Edit: the only problem I can think of is that the external filter has more flow than the internal one and the bag could put a strain on it.


Edit 2: I just did it so yeah I'll let you know...

 

So I can't seem to upload anything on the website so here is it!

 

Soo, parameters are all nice 7.2ph, 7gh, 6kh, no nitrites and nitrates well under 10 and lowering, no fish or shrimp has died, so all in all the removal of the internal filter went smoothly, I guess I'm just very lucky, I'm actually doing a water change a week... but... should I do it even if the parameters are fine? I finally got prime (lol)

 

Here's a link to a great article about fish in cycling.....



Best of luck - Dennis