Cycling with fish?

Hey everyone, I just got a 100L (26gal) tank from tetra (the brand lol) I was going to do it properly but then the shop decided to screw with me and have a 50% sale on fish... long story short I was only 3 days into cycling (started with safestart, bactozyme and easy balance) and I got 15 (they actually are 18-19) neon tetras... what really worries me is that most of the plants didnt even ship let alone get here.. so I only have 2 plants and some christmas moss from the shop... and my sponge filters and air stone no one really know where they are.... I have the included filter going but will they have enough oxigen in there? From my understanding they seem quite happy, this is a video from yesterday and they don't seem to be schooling closely and some even engaged in mating behaviour.. I got them at 1pm and filmed at about 7, before a 20% water change:



After the water change a couple of them just kept doing the dance it was really funny

I will add in a bit my water parameters, but they seem ok for now, I'm checking 3x a day with strips and 1x in the evening with a test kit

 

I personally recommend Prime and Stability by Seachem. Prime dechlorinate water while also having the added benefit of detoxifying ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at 1ppm for 24hours. Stability is ur bottled bacteria designed 2 use with Prime (most bottled bacteria needs 2 be added 24 hours after Prime) and water changes can be performed when using Stability. What test strips r u using? API test strips do not test 4 ammonia so I would stay away from those, Tetra has better test strips but unfortunately test strips r infamous for being inaccurate.

 

Neons are about the last fish I would choose to cycle with. Watch your water very closely. Hopefully it works out with enough WCs.

 

Welcome to Fishlore!

I agree with what Caitlin86 has said.

18-19 neons is a very heavy bioload to be cycling with. Personally I would always do a fishless cycle but if I was cycling with neons I'd stick to about 5 in a 26 gallon then very slowly add more.

 

This is after all night and all morning... I'm thinking 20% water change? I know it was a really bad idea I wanted to do a empty cycle but normally 1 neon is like 4$ and it was 2$ and I couldnt help myself

Anyhow thanks everyone for the welcome!!! I hope they are not doomed they don't seem distressed

 

Anyhow thanks everyone for the welcome!!! I hope they are not doomed they don't seem distressed

Don't let it get you down if you have a rough start. Neons are delicate and you don't have neon water. We all hit some bumps in the road to learning this hobby.

 

Well now I'm doing a water change to lower nitrate, nitrite and ph... lets hope not to have too many bumps then.. id just feel bad for the fish... being in switzerland apart from a bit high ph (7.6) and gh my tap water comes from springs very close to the town ill do a test on that later, anyhow I'm using tetra strips and the liquid kit I share with a friend so until tonight I'm stuck with strips

So I'm thinking a 40% water change instead of 20% is it too much?

 

So I'm thinking a 40% water change instead of 20% is it too much?

No its it's not too much as long as temp and pH r matched

 

Agree with Caitlin86, best thing you can do is water changes. Need to keep ammonia+ nitrites below 1ppm so prime will detoxify them for your fish.

Don't worry about pH for now, it will be good.

 

Using tetra Safe Start it is recommended to not do any testing for the first 7 days. Because it will stress you out at the craziness. I wouldn't do anything until day 7. Then test your tank and go from there. Otherwise the Tetra Safe Start won't work like it should.

 

Using tetra Safe Start it is recommended to not do any testing for the first 7 days. Because it will stress you out at the craziness. I wouldn't do anything until day 7. Then test your tank and go from there. Otherwise the Tetra Safe Start won't work like it should.

well I do add more safestart to the water during water changes but I don't see how I could leave it be for 7 days given that just after one night and morning I had raised levels of about everything? Anyhow one of the neons is chasing everyone away from what I can only guess is its mate... is this normal behavior? I mean it won't let anyone in a 10cm range come near them two?

I personally recommend Prime and Stability by Seachem. Prime dechlorinate water while also having the added benefit of detoxifying ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at 1ppm for 24hours. Stability is ur bottled bacteria designed 2 use with Prime (most bottled bacteria needs 2 be added 24 hours after Prime) and water changes can be performed when using Stability. What test strips r u using? API test strips do not test 4 ammonia so I would stay away from those, Tetra has better test strips but unfortunately test strips r infamous for being inaccurate.

it seems I can't find those products anywhere here, I called a pet shop that said they hold the brand but doesn't know what they have...so I'm going tomorrow and see if I can get my hands on it, as it is I have at my disposal aquasafe, safestart, bactozyme from tetra, and also the prime from dennerle, after the 40%water change ive put safestart and 1 bactozyme pill in the filter. All parameters after the water change lowered to a better level:

 

Kitetra what do the directions say to do with the Tetra Safe Start? I think there may be a difference in what you have, than what we use here in the US. We have Tetra Safe Start and Tetra Safe Start plus. I believe the instructions are different depending on the one you have. You shouldn't need 2 different bottled bacteria.

The reason I don't use Tetra Safe Start is because I don't want to leave my tank unattended for 7 days. It actually recommends not testing for 14 days, but I think that is absolutely ridiculous. After 7 days you should be safe for water changes etc. so I always say 7 days.

 

Kitetra what do the directions say to do with the Tetra Safe Start? I think there may be a difference in what you have, than what we use here in the US. We have Tetra Safe Start and Tetra Safe Start plus. I believe the instructions are different depending on the one you have. You shouldn't need 2 different bottled bacteria.

The reason I don't use Tetra Safe Start is because I don't want to leave my tank unattended for 7 days. It actually recommends not testing for 14 days, but I think that is absolutely ridiculous. After 7 days you should be safe for water changes etc. so I always say 7 days.

Well I'm guessing there must have been a box because all I got was the bottle and the bottle says: 1 condition water, 2shake well and add 5ml x 6 liter minimum temp 20°c, 3 add moderate amount of fish 4 feeding restricted for 2 weeks, to be stored over 2 and 30 degrees... and that is it, the bactozyme had a paper with all infos but idk I thought just pop it in? It doesn't say anything about not doing water changes or any of the sort?

Bactozyme is in pills tho not a bottle, and it says it goes in the filter every water change or filter change, the first time it caused a lot of blooming but it went away in like 15 hours so I figured its fine? The water also was kinda milkish but it says its normal and doesn't hurt fish


The way I see it, forgive the arrogance, is that as long as I don't mess with the filter I'm ok and even better off doing a water change when I the parameters start getting too high? I think it might be a good idea to limit myself to do a wc only when parameters get to a more alarming level instead of keeping them where I feel comfortable all the time? Surely there must be some compromise lol

Edit: I went on tetras website and it does appear that you should just avoid big water changes rather than avoid them at all, I see nothing about not testing water, and also they say that the plus version is just more concentrated than the normal kind... in a bit I will test my water parameters with both the strips and the kit, I'm really curious to see how inaccurate those strips are if at all.

 

Edit: I went on tetras website and it does appear that you should just avoid big water changes rather than avoid them at all, I see nothing about not testing water...

Its because they know that the numbers will be what most consider toxic. With tough species in the tank most of them survive and the cycle completes.

 

Its because they know that the numbers will be what most consider toxic. With tough species in the tank most of them survive and the cycle completes.

Yes exactly. It isn't that you can't test, it's that if you do, it will make you stressed for no reason. The bacteria is housed in Ammonia, to feed the bacteria, so it really will send your Ammonia through the roof at first. I personally would just leave it alone for 7 days. Then start water changes. Just to let it get settled like it is supposed to do. If you do frequent small changes, daily even, it will stall your cycle. Same as if you were doing large ones. You have to let the bacteria do its job.

 

Surely tetra didnt write that thinking id cycle it with tetras?(lol) what I meant was instead of trying to keep the levels right like I'm doing, as you say daily, and causing the cycle to stall, I should only do a water change if no2 or no3 or any other parameter get dangerous, I think we re on the same page there right? I'm reasoning by keeping in mind that tetras aren't supposedly as hardy as they used to be? I don't want to stress myself out but its my understanding that in an uncycled tank parameters can change quickly? Plus I'm in holiday so I do have loads of time... I don't really know where they come from but I'm guessing they re bred in europe? I really wouldnt want any of them to die that's all id rather be over zealous for no reason than having fish die on account of my buying too many of them in the heat of the moment..

Would buying 2-3 rcs as a canary make me a bad person?

 

Would buying 2-3 rcs as a canary make me a bad person?

Probably. Maybe figure out what you are doing before you compound the problem. The neons will make fine canaries and likely tell you within 10-14 days if this is going well or not.

 

Probably. Maybe figure out what you are doing before you compound the problem. The neons will make fine canaries and likely tell you within 10-14 days if this is going well or not.

I thought they would be more sensitive and would alert me to danger thus saving the tetras, I just saw 3 rcs more expandable then 18neons... I didnt think they would compound the problem I thought they have little bioload and would help me get rid of waste like dead food or plant matter? Having that doesn't help now..? I ve added some driftwood that was soaking to the tank supposedly to lower the ph and make the neons feel more at home? Catappa bark from dennerle :/

 

I thought they would be more sensitive and would alert me to danger thus saving the tetras, I just saw 3 rcs more expandable then 18neons... I didnt think they would compound the problem I thought they have little bioload and would help me get rid of waste like dead food or plant matter? Having that doesn't help now..? I ve added some driftwood that was soaking to the tank supposedly to lower the ph and make the neons feel more at home? Catappa bark from dennerle :/

Let your water tests alert you to danger. I can't tell you if shrimp lives are more expendable then neon lives. You won't significantly change your PH with driftwood but it won't hurt anything to try. You will do what you want but I would let it ride for awhile and not add new creatures while you cycle. You already have at least twice as many fish as most do when they cycle a tank that size. Why not be patient and give the BB a few days to catch up?

 

Let your water tests alert you to danger. I can't tell you if shrimp lives are more expendable then neon lives. You won't significantly change your PH with driftwood but it won't hurt anything to try. You will do what you want but I would let it ride for awhile and not add new creatures while you cycle. You already have at least twice as many fish as most do when they cycle a tank that size. Why not be patient and give the BB a few days to catch up?

shrimp lives matter! I was not trying to be some sort of underwater pol pot it was about numbers... not even money because at the shop 3 rcs would set me back more than 18 neons as they only have red sakura atm for 10$ each... I just want to do everything possible to make this go as smooth as possible for the neons... I'm all for being patient, but only once I'm sure I did all I could to prevent foreseeable problems... I already settled down some compared to this morning... about the driftwood yeah I guess its not gonna make a dent on my ph but I also read positive things about tannins and other positive effects of catappa? If you have any suggestion about stuff I could put in there to ease the process I'm all ears, on sunday the shops are closed , I was thinking to get the external filter I wanted to get next month (tetra ex800+) already and put it in tandem with the other? Would that make me develop two colonies? Honestly idk if you haver had an easycrystal filter from tetra... I'm no expert but the filter bag looks very cheap and doesn't inspire much trust, the timer thing already says I'm halfway due to a bag change... whilst the ex800 has a 3 layer filter? Any ofthis sort of tweaks are the sort of thing that will have me be patient and accept fateead:, I'm not down to re-buy stuff I'm waiting delivery on, like plants, sponge filter and airstone, but anything else is game, so shoot like the filter I'm confused about it because the old one can't come out now, and the bag can't be changed, but it has active carbon so after a while might leak stuff? I don't like borrowed time so the ex800 would be good but I don't know if that would be overkill? The 800 is stronger so it would get most of the flow establishing the best colony in there right? so I could at some point take the bag 600 out? But is it better to wait for the colony in the 600 to be more established or not?

What I'm fairly certain of is there must be something one can do before waiting it out ompous:

 

shrimp lives matter! I was not trying to be some sort of underwater pol pot it was about numbers... not even money because at the shop 3 rcs would set me back more than 18 neons as they only have red sakura atm for 10$ each... I just want to do everything possible to make this go as smooth as possible for the neons... I'm all for being patient, but only once I'm sure I did all I could to prevent foreseeable problems... I already settled down some compared to this morning... about the driftwood yeah I guess its not gonna make a dent on my ph but I also read positive things about tannins and other positive effects of catappa? If you have any suggestion about stuff I could put in there to ease the process I'm all ears, on sunday the shops are closed , I was thinking to get the external filter I wanted to get next month (tetra ex800+) already and put it in tandem with the other? Would that make me develop two colonies? Honestly idk if you haver had an easycrystal filter from tetra... I'm no expert but the filter bag looks very cheap and doesn't inspire much trust, the timer thing already says I'm halfway due to a bag change... whilst the ex800 has a 3 layer filter? Any ofthis sort of tweaks are the sort of thing that will have me be patient and accept fateead:, I'm not down to re-buy stuff I'm waiting delivery on, like plants, sponge filter and airstone, but anything else is game, so shoot like the filter I'm confused about it because the old one can't come out now, and the bag can't be changed, but it has active carbon so after a while might leak stuff? I don't like borrowed time so the ex800 would be good but I don't know if that would be overkill? The 800 is stronger so it would get most of the flow establishing the best colony in there right? so I could at some point take the bag 600 out? But is it better to wait for the colony in the 600 to be more established or not?

What I'm fairly certain of is there must be something one can do before waiting it out ompous:

Nope, you bought fish and now you just have to wait it out lol. I do believe in tannins and I do it with peat. I truly think some of my fish prefer it as they spawned in water I would have never expected it to happen. If you have much GH your PH will not move at all with DW or peat. Only one way to find out so go for it. Education is good. Your fish will not be harmed while you learn your water. You can research the internet 8 hours a day and all that really matters is what is true in YOUR water. I hope you find my pessimistic comments useful as that is how I intend them. Nobody on this forum wants even one of your fish to die to prove a point, but cycling with neons is a tall task. Don't make it harder adding more livestock due to impatience.

 

Nope, you bought fish and now you just have to wait it out lol. I do believe in tannins and I do it with peat. I truly think some of my fish prefer it as they spawned in water I would have never expected it to happen. If you have much GH your PH will not move at all with DW or peat. Only one way to find out so go for it. Education is good. Your fish will not be harmed while you learn your water. You can research the internet 8 hours a day and all that really matters is what is true in YOUR water. I hope you find my pessimistic comments useful as that is how I intend them. Nobody on this forum wants even one of your fish to die to prove a point, but cycling with neons is a tall task. Don't make it harder adding more livestock due to impatience.

Well honestly I don't see the use of it but I'm cool with it if that's how you roll in my opinion you're gonna have a bad time in general, with people at least, fish don't care, pessimism is useless, the deed is done, its better to be a realist with a positive twist, I didnt want to buy cherry shrimp, actually it would have prevented me to buy blue jellys as planned later on, but as I saw it as crucial that there was no leftover food or dead plant matter in there and assumed a near zero bioload for 3 rcs I thought it might help and if the poor guys died to save my neons.. the need of the many... honestly you didnt even give me an input on the filter idea... idk adding some more moss which is cheap? Anything to lower their stress? Maybe some cheap floater to shade them from the lights which I'm running very few hours a day and mostly blue, i've also covered a side and the back of the tank with a "rocky" poster to have better control, seriously I think that if u spent less time being passive aggressive just because I bought way more fish than I should have, and suggested anything at all it would be better for everyone... I admitted to it, and I'm here to do my best to make sure no fish (or nonexisting shrimp for that matter) dies because of it all, there's people out there who wouldnt even read something, get them all killed, get new ones, repeat, repeat, you can't et mad at them tho can ya? I got so many because I couldnt expect to afford such a large school without the 50% and now I'm here asking where should I throw money at to improve things as much as possible for them...


What exactly do you find useful in your pessimism?

 

First, don't change the filter bag in that Easy Crystal. You will lose your cycle. Instead, if it looks really dirty with debris, just rinse it in some tank water that you pulled out during a water change. If the bags look like this, you can open the top, dump the carbon out, and close it back up. If you want carbon and just want to change the carbon out, buy loose carbon and put it in your existing bag.



You can definitely run two filters and get BB in both. Ph is a PITA to bring down. I wouldn't mess with it until you get through the cycle, if at all. Tannins are great. Definitely put in the driftwood.

Neons are notoriously fragile unfortunately. I have issues with them and the tank I choose to house them in has been running since 1999 so it is super stable. If you can get them through this, you should feel good about it. I think you can manage it but it takes a long time to cycle. It's super hard for those of us who are impatient! When I have done fish in cycles, I have used Prime and Stability. They were made to work that way for cycling. This gives me much more control. I'll check the water every day and if the ammonia and nitrates are under 1, I dose with prime and leave it. If they are over 1, I do a water change. The amount of water change depends on how high the readings are. I haven't ever used TSS.

I don't think anyone believes you were being a fish Pol Pot lol (I thought the joke was funny). I just think the tetra bio load is plenty and I wouldn't add anything else until you are finished cycling. I know it's hard! I ended up doing it when I knew better because it is just so tempting so I totally get it.

***Edited to remove misleading information***

 

First, don't change the filter bag in that Easy Crystal until it, literally, falls apart, if ever. You will lose your cycle. Instead, if it looks really dirty with debris, just rinse it in some tank water that you pulled out during a water change. If the bags look like this, you can open the top, dump the carbon out, and close it back up. If you want carbon and just want to change the carbon out, buy loose carbon and put it in your existing bag.



You can definitely run two filters and get BB in both. Ph is a PITA to bring down. I wouldn't mess with it until you get through the cycle, if at all. Tannins are great. Definitely put in the driftwood.

Neons are notoriously fragile unfortunately. I have issues with them and the tank I choose to house them in has been running since 1999 so it is super stable. If you can get them through this, you should feel good about it. I think you can manage it but it takes a long time to cycle. It's super hard for those of us who are impatient! When I have done fish in cycles, I have used Prime and Stability. They were made to work that way for cycling. This gives me much more control. I'll check the water every day and if the ammonia and nitrates are under 1, I dose with prime and leave it. If they are over 1, I do a water change. The amount of water change depends on how high the readings are. I haven't ever used TSS.

I don't think anyone believes you were being a fish Pol Pot lol (I thought the joke was funny). I just think the tetra bio load is plenty and I wouldn't add anything else until you are finished cycling. I know it's hard! I ended up doing it when I knew better because it is just so tempting so I totally get it.

yeah that much I figured not touching the bag, but I was already thinking ahed that the thing ill become toxic but at some point I might still want to take that internal filter out, and leave just the external, it not only looks bad, but doesn't give me much confidence, so how should go about it? Buy the external filter set it up and make it go, or wait like... till next week?, the water is way clearer than yesterday, I didnt do any water change since the 40% and results are not that bad: the nitrites disappeared on their own in going to the shop now to see if ill get some idea about some useful upgrade. I really can't find these products from seachem anywhere I will order it online at this point... about that I read that prime should not be used with aquasafe, how should I go about it?

 

You are showing some nitrates which is a sign of progress. Unless it came from the aquasafe. I am not familiar with that product. Hopefully some significant nitrites show up on your tests soon. They normally show up before nitrates. None of our testing methods are accurate to .01

 

Prime can be used with Tetra Safe Start. But it has to be used at least 24 hours apart. A little longer if able.

Aquasafe is a dechlorinator so you don't need when using Prime. Prime however will detoxify ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates for 24-48 hours. And helps with the stress coat. Aquasafe does not do this. So Prime is preferred for fish-in cycling. Prime will protect your fish from the high chemistries to a certain point. This is why it is suggested so often.

 

You are showing some nitrates which is a sign of progress. Unless it came from the aquasafe. I am not familiar with that product. Hopefully some significant nitrites show up on your tests soon. They normally show up before nitrates. None of our testing methods are accurate to .01

well I know but if the app feels like giving me a .01 result it can't be helped, hopefully I didnt stall the cycle too much with the two water changes, I also added tetra filter active that I just got from the shop, which again is bacteria to be put in the filter and supposedly a new product.. I got a moss ball and a big chunk of christmas moss also a couple hiding places, now I have no choice but wait it out till monday, I also got ph/kh minus but I'm not planning on using it yet, I just feel better having anything I might need that's all. The shop agreed that cristalclear filters are not good and he too told me to start with the filter and phase the old one out, he said that if the marker says I'm halfway trough I still have plenty of time and won't have to worry about carbon leaks until well over the given timeframe.. honestly I don't even know why they give these filters without giving an option to pay more and get an external one, my thinking now is I can get a hospital tank with that filter.

Prime can be used with Tetra Safe Start. But it has to be used at least 24 hours apart. A little longer if able.

Aquasafe is a dechlorinator so you don't need when using Prime. Prime however will detoxify ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates for 24-48 hours. And helps with the stress coat. Aquasafe does not do this. So Prime is preferred for fish-in cycling. Prime will protect your fish from the high chemistries to a certain point. This is why it is suggested so often.

My tap water has 0 chlore, so could I just not use Aquasafe or dennerles declhlorinator and use just seachem prime instead? I ordered it from amazon I should get it next week. I also got stability from seachem! I also got 2 big drinkable water tanks so I can prepare the water and let it sit for 24 hours before introducing it to the acquarium and TSS...what about that filter active stuff anyone got experience using it?






So the ph lowered itself, I'm a bit worried about nitrates? And why did the kh shoot up like that? :/

Ugh I just found a neon floating on top of the aquarium... I hope its the first and last I just don't know why or what? Just the stress? Should I do a tiny water change to lower the nitrates?

I just retested the other one was from late this afternoon




I know I maybe shouldnt but I'm thinking a 20% water change and to **** with tss?

 

Ugh I just found a neon floating on top of the aquarium... I hope its the first and last I just don't know why or what? Just the stress? Should I do a tiny water change to lower the nitrates?

I just retested the other one was from late this afternoon
View attachment 330742 View attachment 330743

I know I maybe shouldnt but I'm thinking a 20% water change and to with tss?

Just so you know how this works. A 100% WC would drop the nitrates 100% to zero, a 20% WC only drops nitrates from 20 to 16. Nitrates 20 is not a toxic number so I would probably wait a little while and keep an eye on the numbers. It's good that you are so attentive but don't let it make you crazy just yet. WCs are your friend after the fish acclimate some, but right now it may just be more stress they don't need

Regarding the neon death, it could very well have been the shock he has been through. I have had new neon drop over dead literally a half dozen at a time when 30 other fish in the tank were healthy as can be. They can be tough to acclimate. Another tip for the future., pull some water from the bag when you buy fish. Run the tests and get an idea what you are up against as far as acclimating to your water. Better yet ask the source before you buy. I do that all the time and they have no problem providing the info. If they didn't, I would find somebody that will.

 

Just so you know how this works. A 100% WC would drop the nitrates 100% to zero, a 20% WC only drops nitrates from 20 to 16. Nitrates 20 is not a toxic number so I would probably wait a little while and keep an eye on the numbers. It's good that you are so attentive but don't let it make you crazy just yet. Regarding the neon death, it could very well have been the shock he has been through. I have had new neon drop over dead literally a half dozen at a time when 30 other fish in the tank were healthy as can be. They can be tough to acclimate. Another tip for the future., pull some water from the bag when you buy fish. Run the tests and get an idea what you are up against as far as acclimating to your water. Better yet ask the source before you buy. I do that all the time and they have no problem providing the info. If they didn't, I would find somebody that will.

I was more worried about the .2 nitrite than the nitrate... that's what makes me want to do the wc.. I think now I understand what you guys meant by doing tests now will drive you nuts the parameters are just jumping all over lol.. when I went to the shop today I did ask about their water parameters but I'm guessing since it was near closing time he just told me we have 7.5 ph I ve been thinking about it and the poor guy I think came up when I moved a decoration near the glass... could the poor thing got itself stuck between the decoration and the glass? Because when I moved it I notcied a neon going up but didnt think much of it...

 

.2ppm nitrite is OK. And it means your tank is beginning to cycle. You are going to have nitrites until the end of your cycle. They may spike hard. When they return to zero and stay there you will be cycled. You are experiencing the reason why most of us cycle without fish and just dose liquid ammonia. You desire perfect water for your fish but it's just impossible in a cycling tank. If you did a WC now and removed the nitrites, they might be back in just a few hours. You already have BB eating ammonia as evidenced by the presence of nitrites. Now you wait for the BB that consumes nitrites and they are usually much slower to build a large colony.

 

.2ppm nitrite is OK. And it means your tank is beginning to cycle. You are going to have nitrites until the end of your cycle. They may spike hard. When they return to zero and stay there you will be cycled. You are experiencing the reason why most of us cycle without fish and just dose liquid ammonia. You desire perfect water for your fish but it's just impossible in a cycling tank. If you did a WC now and removed the nitrites, they might be back in just a few hours. You already have BB eating ammonia as evidenced by the presence of nitrites. Now you wait for the BB that consumes nitrites and they are usually much slower to build a large colony.

so for future reference at what levels do you think I should do a wc because they are too high? I wasn't really going for perfect water anymore I'm just worried that high levels might get to a dangerous level during the night and id wake to find a graveyard, what would you define as alarming?

 

so for future reference at what levels do you think I should do a wc because they are too high? I wasn't really going for perfect water anymore I'm just worried that high levels might get to a dangerous level during the night and id wake to find a graveyard, what would you define as alarming?

I know you are tired of being thrashed for the neons already but they make it a little more risky. Normally during cycle with hardier fish I didn't get too alarmed until I saw ammonia hit .50ppm, nitrites much over 1.0ppm and nitrates around 40ppm. With Prime these water numbers are safe. I have a lot of experience, but I don't need to used bottled bacteria products with my water because it cycles easily. So I am not going to pretend to be a TSS expert. I'm sure AllieSten would be pleased to help you with this part. It's tricky because the bottled products are meant to remain in the tank and facilitate the cycle. You can't pour them in and do a WC 4 HRs later or it's pointless. When is the Prime arriving because you need it soon?

 

I know you are tired of being thrashed for the neons already but they make it a little more risky. Normally during cycle with hardier fish I didn't get too alarmed until I saw ammonia hit .50ppm, nitrites much over 1.0ppm and nitrates around 40ppm. With Prime these water numbers are safe. I have a lot of experience, but I don't need to used bottled bacteria products with my water because it cycles easily. So I am not going to pretend to be a TSS expert. I'm sure AllieSten would be pleased to help you with this part. It's tricky because the bottled products are meant to remain in the tank and facilitate the cycle. You can't pour them in and do a WC 4 HRs later or it's pointless. When is the Prime arriving because you need it soon?

Yeah I'm hating myself for it if it helps any... and its also costing me more than what I spared on the neons :/ with the added risk of them dying, I rue the moment I saw that 50% on fish sign and that I didnt stick at least to the plan of getting 7-8, I'm quite impulsive lol and I knew they were sensitive, that's why I got alarmed as soon I saw those result despite my committment to avoid water changes... well honesly it says about friday, take into account that amazon.de didnt ship to Switzerland, so I got it from amazon.it and delivered to an amazon locker near the border in italy... and you can only have standard delivery to pick up points... I'm not even gonna comment on that, next I will have to make a walk of shame on my knees in the strees of town if it keepw going like this lol .... but its pretty much all I can do, today I was at the biggest pet store in the region and they didnt have a single product from seachem... and the other shop that told me yeah we have some things from seachem is a nice old guy but had some of this, some of that, but not prime and stability...

Edit: Why don't I have an ammonia test??? Jeez

 

Yeah I'm hating myself for it if it helps any... and its also costing me more than what I spared on the neons :/ with the added risk of them dying, I rue the moment I saw that 50% on fish sign and that I didnt stick at least to the plan of getting 7-8, I'm quite impulsive lol and I knew they were sensitive, that's why I got alarmed as soon I saw those result despite my committment to avoid water changes... well honesly it says about friday, take into account that amazon.de didnt ship to Switzerland, so I got it from amazon.it and delivered to an amazon locker near the border in italy... and you can only have standard delivery to pick up points... I'm not even gonna comment on that, next I will have to make a walk of shame on my knees in the strees of town if it keepw going like this lol .... but its pretty much all I can do, today I was at the biggest pet store in the region and they didnt have a single product from seachem... and the other shop that told me yeah we have some things from seachem is a nice old guy but had some of this, some of that, but not prime and stability...

Edit: Why don't I have an ammonia test??? Jeez

You will want to get an API liquid kit eventually. I raised fish for a few decades before I ever heard of Seachem I use very few chemicals to be honest. Prime is good stuff though. I have a well and rarely even use Prime but it is valuable during a cycle, or when you have an emergency spike in parameters.

Don't beat yourself up on the neons. It's water under the bridge now. I guarantee you every "expert" posting this thread has pulled some bonehead moves. Thirty years in this game and not long ago I blew up a 60G community tank because I decided not to quarantine only ONE new fish though I knew better from experience. Start planning your final stocking to pass the time. Try to find some hardy fish you want to own when you are cycled. Pick out a few challenging fish you'd like to own in six months. If some neons die do not replace them. Just cycle the tank and move forward. Neons are for established tanks. You can buy some more later if you like. There are many fish that you can enjoy while you learn to do this.

 

I raised fish for a few decades before I ever heard of Seachem

Great point! So did I... a few fish and frequent water changes. It worked just fine.

 

You will want to get an API liquid kit eventually. I raised fish for a few decades before I ever heard of Seachem I use very few chemicals to be honest. Prime is good stuff though. I have a well and rarely even use Prime but it is valuable during a cycle, or when you have an emergency spike in parameters.

Don't beat yourself up on the neons. It's water under the bridge now. I guarantee you every "expert" posting this thread has pulled some bonehead moves. Thirty years in this game and not long ago I blew up a 60G community tank because I decided not to quarantine only ONE new fish though I knew better from experience. Start planning your final stocking to pass the time. Try to find some hardy fish you want to own when you are cycled. Pick out a few challenging fish you'd like to own in six months. If some neons die do not replace them. Just cycle the tank and move forward. Neons are for established tanks. You can buy some more later if you like. There are many fish that you can enjoy while you learn to do this.

well I got so muddled up in technical stuff I didnt really think what else I could put in there? Bottom line is I really like rcs, and I really like neons, and with that I was kind of sure it would be pretty peaceful, at first I wanted to put some danios in there but it would seem they would just bully the other two.. and I'm super worried about shrimp being eaten, I even got neons instead of cardinals thinking theyre smaller.. if anyone has suggestions about small peaceful fishes I could put with rcs and neons id love to hear them

 

Neons are about the last fish I would choose to cycle with. Watch your water very closely. Hopefully it works out with enough WCs.

Agreed. Black neons are beasts, however. I still have all of mine. Added 4 more. My angel ate the runt. They will not school tight without a predator in the tank....angel for example. I cycled my 29 with aquasafe, safestart +, and some floating anacharis about 2 years ago roughly.

 

HI there. How many days has it been since you added the TSS? How many days since the last water change? I personally wouldn't do another water change for the next 3-4 days. Don't even test your tank. Neons don't tolerate cycling very well. So you may have a few more fish deaths. I am sorry for your loss. I hate it when that happens.

You have to just be patient at this point. It takes weeks for bacteria to grow, not days. There is no quick way to get it done. You can't force them to grow quicker either. You can encourage it though. I would increase your tank temp to 82F -84F. Neons should be able to tolerate it. This is will encourage the bacteria to grow and reproduce.

So let's say on Wednesday or Thursday, test your tank parameters and see where you are. If your fish aren't tolerating the increase in temperature then I would lower it by a degree or two. Anything 80-84 is the best for bacteria, with 84 being the goal.

Definitely invest in a liquid test kit. At the very least you need an ammonia tester. You can buy those separately. Or get a Seachem Ammonia Alert card for your tank. They work well too.

 

HI there. How many days has it been since you added the TSS? How many days since the last water change? I personally wouldn't do another water change for the next 3-4 days. Don't even test your tank. Neons don't tolerate cycling very well. So you may have a few more fish deaths. I am sorry for your loss. I hate it when that happens.

You have to just be patient at this point. It takes weeks for bacteria to grow, not days. There is no quick way to get it done. You can't force them to grow quicker either. You can encourage it though. I would increase your tank temp to 82F -84F. Neons should be able to tolerate it. This is will encourage the bacteria to grow and reproduce.

So let's say on Wednesday or Thursday, test your tank parameters and see where you are. If your fish aren't tolerating the increase in temperature then I would lower it by a degree or two. Anything 80-84 is the best for bacteria, with 84 being the goal.

Definitely invest in a liquid test kit. At the very least you need an ammonia tester. You can buy those separately. Or get a Seachem Ammonia Alert card for your tank. They work well too.

hello there! I would say it has been two days since the last water change, I'm in holiday so days are kinda a vague indicator of what's happening lol... I did add more TSS, Bactozyme and filter active (still from tetra,anyone knows it?) yesterday afternoon, I have Tetras water test set but it doesn't have NO3 so I went and got just the NO3 liquid test from tetra. I also read up on tetras ph/kh minus, it says that I could use it to neutralize ammonia if needed, adding 25ml x 100 liters of water, but also that my tank should be areated? (Like an airstone?) Until I don't get prime its pretty much all I can work with... I'm gonna eat then do some liquid water tests later, this is a quick strip test I did just now...

 

Your kh/pH will fluctuate during cycling. This is normal. Don't worry too much about it. It will stabilize once you are cycled. It really doesn't detoxify the ammonia very much, a negligible amount really. Just be patient. If your ammonia + nitrites is above 0.5 ppm then do a 50% water change. If it is below 0.5ppm then juast leave of for another day.