Cycling With Fish Waste?!

Hey everyone. I've got this 87 gallon planted tank I need to cycle. I have a guppy bowl with 9 guppies in it and every other day when I change the bowl's water for the guppies, instead of throwing the fish poop/leftover food away,I dump it into the 87 gallon tank! is that helping to cycle the tank or what?! There's a sponge filter and an HOB running for like half a day in there everyday. Cuz there's no fish in there atm,I don't keep the filters on the whole day. So is it a legit way to cycle the tank? If yes, then how long would it take to cycle it this way?
p.s : there's like ~ 50 MTS and pond snails (total) in there as well.
Thanks

 

I don't see why not, however I would leave your filters on at all times. The HOB for sure as it will need the oxygen from the water (as well as a consistent temp) to make the BB grow as fast as possible.

 

It might work but why not just put some fish food in there?

 

It might work but why not just put some fish food in there?

Cuz they say fish food is rich in phosphorus and its salts- a recipe for algae growth- don't want that now do we ?

 

I used fish food to cycle my tank and it was fine
After cycling the tank you have to do a large water change anyway before adding fish.

 

I used fish food to cycle my tank and it was fine
After cycling the tank you have to do a large water change anyway before adding fish.

To remove the nitrates? Makes sense
Thanks!

 

To remove the nitrates? Makes sense
Thanks!

Yep, they build up during a cycle. By doing a large water change you'll remove any bad stuff coming from the fish food too.

 

My thought is that unless you're adding a ton of poop it's not likely going to advance your cycle all that much. I chuck leftover fish food in my backup tank to help keep it cycled, but it's only 2.5 gal, lol. I don't see any reason NOT to do it, but for me the easiest way to get a good controlled bioload for new BB is by dosing with pure ammonia. A nice piece of rotting shrimp in a stocking will also release a steady supply of ammonia, but it's a little more difficult to control the rate and you'll need to test to figure out how much to use, etc. (also it stinks to high heaven, lol).

I was going to suggest just adding some of your guppies' filter media to cycle the tank, but then I re-read your post... are you keeping those in an unfiltered bowl? If so, you're braver than I am. I guess if you're doing large every other day water changes with Prime it should be safe, but that's quite a tightrope act. How big a bowl is it, if I may ask? Got any pics? I'm curious!

 

Haha I know exactly what a rotting shrimp/fish in a tank is gonna smell like cuz I've had that happen in a tank.. so that's not an option especially if your tank's in the living room lol BUT I think I'll start adding a little fish food along with the fish poop from the guppy bowl

And yes the 9 guppies I have are in an unfiltered glass bowl in which I do a 100% water change every other day or so AND I don't add prime etc always - I usually let the chlorine evaporate from a water bucket overnight and add that water. Why are you surprised ? I mean people with fish bowls do that quite often don't they?




Here's a picture hope you can see the bowl. Sorry for the bowl being so far away but I don't feel like getting out of my bed right now lol
Oh and it holds a gallon of water or so I think

 

And yes the 9 guppies I have are in an unfiltered glass bowl in which I do a 100% water change every other day or so AND I don't add prime etc always - I usually let the chlorine evaporate from a water bucket overnight and add that water. Why are you surprised ? I mean people with fish bowls do that quite often don't they?

Nine guppies in a gallon of water is crazy, dude! That's not enough room for those guys to swim naturally at all, and there is definitely ammonia building up in your water between changes with that much bioload. That's why using Prime would be crucial to such a setup... in addition to dechlorinating water, it also bonds ammonia into a harmless form for 24-48 hours. Have you tested the water before a water change? Ammonia is harmful to fish in any concentration.

A lot of people do keep fish in bowls, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a person anywhere on this forum who think's it's a safe or responsible practice. You can get away with it, as I said, if you're using Prime, but one day without maintenance and your fish are going to be exposed to toxins.

 

I have an idea - why don't you put your 9 guppies in the 87 gallon later on? You could create a whole tropical fish community tank with even more guppies, and possibly some peaceful tetras or so... your bowl is WAY too overcrowded, not to mention that you shouldn't put a fish in a bowl anyway.

 

The poop from those guppies and "a little fish food" is going to make basically no difference in an 87 gallon tank. But it depends on the level of biological filtration you are going to need to support the fish you plan to keep. If you're going to keep a betta in it, you could go ahead and put him in right away, and he would be fine. On the other hand, if you want to keep 5 goldfish, you need to supply enough ammonia to establish a bacterial colony that will process 5 goldfish's worth of waste. I would recommend dosing with pure ammonia, since you can easily keep adding it till you achieve a desired concentration in the water (say 2ppm), and then monitor how long it takes to clear that amount of ammonia once your cycle is established. What is the ammonia level in the tank currently?

 

My (probably not liked) opinion, put the guppys into the big tank and cycle the tank with them( And TSS+). It may not be safe for the guppys but neither is nine of them in a gallon of water.

 

I have an idea - why don't you put your 9 guppies in the 87 gallon later on? You could create a whole tropical fish community tank with even more guppies, and possibly some peaceful tetras or so... your bowl is WAY too overcrowded, not to mention that you shouldn't put a fish in a bowl anyway.

Putting them in there later is exactly what I had in mind but the only reason I wasn't doing that is so they wouldn't get exposed to new tank syndrome :/
but since all you guys seem tI agree that the bowl is not enough room for them, I might as well put them in there soon

And I do plan to make it a tropical community tank with a few angels and a few other compatible fish

 

Angels might eat the guppies, so you could either put the guppies in a 20 gallon, and then keep angels in the 87 .

 

The poop from those guppies and "a little fish food" is going to make basically no difference in an 87 gallon tank. But it depends on the level of biological filtration you are going to need to support the fish you plan to keep. If you're going to keep a betta in it, you could go ahead and put him in right away, and he would be fine. On the other hand, if you want to keep 5 goldfish, you need to supply enough ammonia to establish a bacterial colony that will process 5 goldfish's worth of waste. I would recommend dosing with pure ammonia, since you can easily keep adding it till you achieve a desired concentration in the water (say 2ppm), and then monitor how long it takes to clear that amount of ammonia once your cycle is established. What is the ammonia level in the tank currently?

Well it never occurred to me that they're overcrowded or something in there cuz I've had them for like the last 7 months and just 3 of them died. 2 in the first couple of days and one a few weeks back but I'm sure you guys are saying that for the guppies' best interest and I should definitely think about giving them a bigger tank.
I think I'll put a couple of guppies in there and gradually add the rest of them. Would that be the right way to cycle the 87 gallon tank? Or would I still have to go with pure ammonia ?

 

Putting them in there later is exactly what I had in mind but the only reason I wasn't doing that is so they wouldn't get exposed to new tank syndrome :/

New tank syndrome just means ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank, which is exactly what they're going through in your fish bowl.

Do you have a water test kit? It's really important to know what's going on with your water, especially when you're cycling a tank. Most people on this forum recommend API's liquid "master test kit". (Liquid tests are the most accurate, and the set is the most cost effective investment over time.)

 

New tank syndrome just means ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank, which is exactly what they're going through in your fish bowl.

Do you have a water test kit? It's really important to know what's going on with your water, especially when you're cycling a tank. Most people on this forum recommend API's liquid "master test kit". (Liquid tests are the most accurate, and the set is the most cost effective investment over time.)

Yes that's exactly what I meant by NTS. the fish poop would have increased the ammonia levels and the fish could have died in the new tank.
Don't have a test kit currently but I'll get one soon now!
Would increasing the ammonia using pure ammonia kill MTS ? I have a few of them in there..

Angels might eat the guppies, so you could either put the guppies in a 20 gallon, and then keep angels in the 87 .

I've got a small 7 gallon tank. I might put the guppies in there

 

Yes that's exactly what I meant by NTS. the fish poop would have increased the ammonia levels and the fish could have died in the new tank.
Don't have a test kit currently but I'll get one soon now!

Lol, one gallon of water with nine 1" fish is a very different situation from 87 gallons of water with nine 1" fish. In aquariums water volume makes all the difference. Think of it like smoking a cigarette in your car vs smoking one in a football stadium. A person in that stadium isn't even going to notice your second hand smoke, but a person in that car will probably start coughing. Now putting nine smokers in a car and see what that's like. On the other hand, I doubt a person in that stadium would be able to smell smoke even if you and eight friends were having a cigarette on the 20 yard line. Fish produce ammonia all the time as a bi-product of breathing and swimming as well as digestion. Removing visible poop and changing the water will reduce the concentration, but your fish are still producing ammonia between water changes unless you're doing something to neutralize it, which is why your unfiltered, untreated bowl isn't a good thing. But in an 87 gallon tank, those fish would be producing such an insignificant amount of waste that it would probably not even register on a test kit.

I think (others please jump in if you disagree) that you could go ahead and add the guppies to the large tank safely, but I'm not entirely sure how you would transition to adding larger fish...it's kind of a weird case...I'd need to think about it...

 

Lol, one gallon of water with nine 1" fish is a very different situation from 87 gallons of water with nine 1" fish. In aquariums water volume makes all the difference. Think of it like smoking a cigarette in your car vs smoking one in a football stadium. A person in that stadium isn't even going to notice your second hand smoke, but a person in that car will probably start coughing. Now putting nine smokers in a car and see what that's like. On the other hand, I doubt a person in that stadium would be able to smell smoke even if you and eight friends were having a cigarette. Fish produce ammonia all the time as a bi-product of breathing and swimming as well as digestion. Even if you remove visible poop and change the water, ammonia will build up constantly unless you're doing something to neutralize it, which is why your unfiltered, untreated bowl isn't a good thing. But in an 87 gallon tank, those fish would be producing such an insignificant amount of waste that it would probably not even register on a test kit.

I think (others please jump in if you disagree) that you could go ahead and add the guppies to the large tank safely, but I'm not entirely sure how you would transition to adding larger fish...it's kind of a weird case...I'd need to think about it...

Umm yeah the guppy overcrowding thing is kinda making sense now

AND you're 100% right about that. How do I start adding larger fish without spiking the ammonia levels? :/
I mean people have their 55 G tanks with dozens of medium to large sized fish and they seem to be doing ok. Whereas I have an 87 G tank here and I can't figure out how to add more than 9 guppies in there lol
It's very frustrating tbh

Umm yeah the guppy overcrowding thing is kinda making sense now

AND you're 100% right about that. How do I start adding larger fish without spiking the ammonia levels? :/
I mean people have their 55 G tanks with dozens of medium to large sized fish and they seem to be doing ok. Whereas I have an 87 G tank here and I can't figure out how to add more than 9 guppies in there lol
It's very frustrating tbh

And so I'm changing my 'dp' to this kinda sad lion cub lol

 

Don't stress, you're in the right place to learn everything you need to know, and you have a wonderfully positive and open-minded attitude when it comes to improving the lives of your creatures! Can't ask for better than that! I'll continue to try and think of a plan, hoping some other folks will chime in and add their two cents about the 87 gallon tank! You'll definitely get there, and it will be great, don't worry!

I think when you get your water test kit we will be much better able to help you with both the guppy bowl and the 87gal. I would also recommend some Prime

 

Don't stress, you're in the right place to learn everything you need to know, and you have a wonderfully positive and open-minded attitude when it comes to improving the lives of your creatures! Can't ask for better than that! I'll continue to try and think of a plan, hoping some other folks will chime in and add their two cents about the 87 gallon tank! You'll definitely get there, and it will be great, don't worry!

I think when you get your water test kit we will be much better able to help you with both the guppy bowl and the 87gal. I would also recommend some Prime

Tysm. It means a lot
And what good is pet-keeping if your pets are not happy right? Not to mention it'd just be cruel to keep them in unhealthy conditions. So keeping them in a nice environment should be every pet-keeper's utmost priority.

 

Every time you turn off the filter, you kill most of the day's progress. If you are cultivating archaea and bacteria, why deactivate the environment that supports them for hours every day?

 

I think at this point you could cycle the 87 the old fashioned way. Try to make sure your tank and bowl are about the same temperature and pH, they probably are close, and go ahead and add the guppies. After a week or so, add a few more fish. This is how people successfully stocked aquariums before affordable test kits. . As long as you add slowly, you will be okay, the BB will catch up.

I am in no way saying not to get a test kit. They are very helpful and I use one regularly. But there's no reason to keep the guppies in an uncycled bowl until you cycle the tank. Later if you want fish that may eat guppies, you can instant cycle a new smaller tank with some media from the 87.

And run the filter 24/7. .

 

I think my suggestion is to leave the guppies in the bowl for now and keep doing your water changes (but get some Prime and add two drops per gallon of water to the bowl).

At the same time, follow the plan I outlined to cycle the 87 gallon tank using pure ammonia. To speed this up, you can raise the temp in the tank (it has a heater, right?), and definitely keep your filter going the whole time. The vast majority of your beneficial bacteria will live in the filter media, and the aerobic (oxygen dependent) species need that moving water to thrive and multiply. Once the tank is processing 1-2ppm ammonia in 24 hrs or less, you can stop seeding the tank with ammonia and add the guppies, and move quickly to add at least a couple of larger fish soon after that. They will supply enough bioload to keep some of your BB colony alive, and you can continue to add new fish gradually till you reach your desired stocking level.

Seem like a reasonable plan, guys?

I think at this point you could cycle the 87 the old fashioned way. Try to make sure your tank and bowl are about the same temperature and pH, they probably are close, and go ahead and add the guppies. After a week or so, add a few more fish. This is how people successfully stocked aquariums before affordable test kits. . As long as you add slowly, you will be okay, the BB will catch up... .

This seems like an option too... at some point some of your fish may be exposed to some ammonia and/or nitrite, which is the downside... your call, OP!

 

I'm not trying to argue, but why leave the guppies in the bowl? Their conditions would not be any worse in the big tank while it cycles. A fishless cycle can still take several weeks. I agree the fishless is the better way to go, I'm doing one in my 38, but I don't have fish for it yet.

Edit: sorry I didn't see your reply. I was still typing when it came through.

 

I would also move the guppies into your larger tank. A tiny bowl is a dangerous home for them, especially with so many of them.

What's your stocking plan for the big tank after it's cycled?

 

Hey guys
All your help is much appreciated. Trust me it's so heartening to see how many people are willing to help you in this 'can-be-very-frustrating-hobby'

Any way I've weighed my options and I've decided to go ahead with cycling the tank using the 100% pure ammonia method and then measuring the water parameters (I'll get the water testing kit soon)

(Not being ungrateful to people whose advices I'm turning down here - you gotta cycle the tank just one way right :/ )

Anyway I've just got 2 questions now;
1) how, using the 100 %pure ammonia method, do I go about cycling the tank? I mean how do I 'adjust' the ammonia doses according to how big my fish stock's going to be??
Plus how long would it take for my 87 gallon tank?

2) like I said earlier, I've got Malaysian trumpet snails in there, probably feeding on guppy waste I've been adding and a few rotting plants in there - would they be adversely affected by dosing pure ammonia? Cuz for one, I don't wanna hurt em, and secondly if they die, they're going to keep adding harmful stuff to the water right?

Thanks a lot once again for your help folks! ^.^
Waiting eagerly for your response cuz it's been a good 4 months since I've had this tank and I haven't figured out how to 'start' the thing

I think at this point you could cycle the 87 the old fashioned way. Try to make sure your tank and bowl are about the same temperature and pH, they probably are close, and go ahead and add the guppies. After a week or so, add a few more fish. This is how people successfully stocked aquariums before affordable test kits. . As long as you add slowly, you will be okay, the BB will catch up.

I am in no way saying not to get a test kit. They are very helpful and I use one regularly. But there's no reason to keep the guppies in an uncycled bowl until you cycle the tank. Later if you want fish that may eat guppies, you can instant cycle a new smaller tank with some media from the 87.

And run the filter 24/7. .

Plus would the API 130 ammonia test kit do the trick for me ? It's affordable and seems to cover the required range of readings I think I need. Right?

I think my suggestion is to leave the guppies in the bowl for now and keep doing your water changes (but get some Prime and add two drops per gallon of water to the bowl).

At the same time, follow the plan I outlined to cycle the 87 gallon tank using pure ammonia. To speed this up, you can raise the temp in the tank (it has a heater, right?), and definitely keep your filter going the whole time. The vast majority of your beneficial bacteria will live in the filter media, and the aerobic (oxygen dependent) species need that moving water to thrive and multiply. Once the tank is processing 1-2ppm ammonia in 24 hrs or less, you can stop seeding the tank with ammonia and add the guppies, and move quickly to add at least a couple of larger fish soon after that. They will supply enough bioload to keep some of your BB colony alive, and you can continue to add new fish gradually till you reach your desired stocking level.

Seem like a reasonable plan, guys?



This seems like an option too... at some point some of your fish may be exposed to some ammonia and/or nitrite, which is the downside... your call, OP!

 

A fishless cycle with ammonia can take weeks or months - I wouldn't keep your guppies in a bowl for that much longer. Do you have a plan for them?

 

Leave the filters running so there's constant water flow and so your actually feeding the bacteria your trying to grow in the filter media.

 

A fishless cycle with ammonia can take weeks or months - I wouldn't keep your guppies in a bowl for that much longer. Do you have a plan for them?

Well umm they've been in there for the last 7 months
They'd survive a few more weeks I hope if that's how long it's gonna take :/
But I'll put em in the 87 first thing as long as it's ready

Leave the filters running so there's constant water flow and so your actually feeding the bacteria your trying to grow in the filter media.

They're on 24/7 now

 

Right, and they shouldn't have been in there for 7 months either Fishless cycling can take another few months, and there's no harm in you moving them over and cycling with them in (fish-in, don't add ammonia) and slowly stocking around them.

 

Right, and they shouldn't have been in there for 7 months either Fishless cycling can take another few months, and there's no harm in you moving them over and cycling with them in (fish-in, don't add ammonia) and slowly stocking around them.

Huh. Yes you're right :/
Let me see what I can do cuz I'm not really sure if the conditions in the 87 are already not too poor for them to live in :/

 

Why would the conditions be too poor? If you already added ammonia, do a large water change and add the guppies in.

 

Why would the conditions be too poor? If you already added ammonia, do a large water change and add the guppies in.

Ok so dude here's what I've decided :
I'm gonna keep dumping the guppies' waste from the bowl into the 87 for 1 more week,keep the internal and the sponge filter running 24/7 for a whole week, after a week, do a 50 % water change and then refill with dechlorinated water PLUS ADD THE GUPPIES.
After another week maybe, add a school of zebra danios (cuz they're hardy too I've heard )
Then gradually keep adding more fish till a reasonable biostock is in there!

That's the best plan I could think of!! Please whoever sees this, let me know if I'm doing the right thing the right way OR if I should do it any differently..

Looking forward to a much-appreciated response.
Thanks

 

I would wait until the tank is completely cycled with the guppies before adding anymore fish.
I wouldn't recommend cycling with danios unless you plan to stock the tank with cool water fish.

 

Finish the cycle before adding any fish. A simple way to cycle the tank with a constant food source for the bacteria is just use a raw shrimp from the supermarket. I had a 90gal so I used two big raw jumbo shrimp but on a smaller tank you can use one or half of one.

I wouldn't use fish to cycle the tank it's not fair to them it's a Lot of stress on them and overall just not good for them.

 

I wouldn't use fish to cycle the tank it's not fair to them it's a Lot of stress on them and overall just not good for them.

Usually I would agree however in this case I think it would be better to do a fish in cycle with the guppies instead of keeping them in an unfiltered bowl.

 

Just add the guppies now. Waiting another week and adding their waste from the bowl to the big tank will do the same thing as adding the guppies to the big tank right now (except it's worse on the guppies' health).

If you want to add zebra danios in your final stocking, I think it would be fine to add a school in a week or so, after adding the guppies. You'll need a little larger bioload in the tank anyway. After you add them, you can do a fish-in cycle (which means no more fish until your tank is fully cycled).

 

Just add the guppies now. Waiting another week and adding their waste from the bowl to the big tank will do the same thing as adding the guppies to the big tank right now (except it's worse on the guppies' health).

If you want to add zebra danios in your final stocking, I think it would be fine to add a school in a week or so, after adding the guppies. You'll need a little larger bioload in the tank anyway. After you add them, you can do a fish-in cycle (which means no more fish until your tank is fully cycled).

The only reason I wanted to wait a week while adding guppy poop in there is cuz I've had the filters off for like the last 4 days :/ so it might have adversely affected any developing bacterial colonies in there
I had actually started thinking on the lines of using pure ammonia and stuff but after I realised how complicated it could get, I decided to carry on the guppy poop way and during this "thinking period" ,I had turned both my internal and sponge filter off which I'm kind of regretting now