Cycling properly?

Hi, I'm new to fishlore . I got a 20 gallon tank about 3 weeks ago, and I just did a water change for my tank. I am cycling with 2 neon tetras (I know, I will get more) and a betta. (didnt know there was a fishless cycle). After doing the water change, I tested the water. The ammonia was at .25 ppm! It has never been so high after a water change. I use a gravel vacuum every change, but should I? Also, will my fish be ok? I cannot place some fish somewhere else because my parents will get mad and stuff. Nitrites and nitrates remain at 0, but I use Aquasafe which claims to remove nitrite, and Prime Seachem which claims to detoxify nitrite and ammonia. Will those products be harmful to the cycle? All the fish seem active and always happy. One more question. I heard that if the filter cartridge goes dry, all the bacteria dies and the cycle starts over. When I do a water change, water does not reach the cartridge and it does mostly dry. Is that a problem? I will be asking more questions in a while...

Thank you for reading XD and thank you even more if you reply

I also have been feeding them sparingly, and not much

 

Welcome to Fishlore

Dosing Prime daily and with each water change will help detoxify the ammonia and nitrite until you're cycled (You don't need the AquaSafe since Prime is also a water conditioner). But yes, both products are safe to use while cycling.

The filter cartridge should be ok if it's dry for an hour but during water changes, I would keep it in a bucket of removed tank water and then you can rinse it in the same water right before you add it back to your filter. Question though - have you been rinsing the cartridge in tap water or replacing it at all? If so, that would kill off the bacteria.

Just as a side note that the betta and neons aren't really temp compatible. If possible, I would move the betta to its own tank as they really aren't good community fish.

 

Hopefully you can reply, but I have some more info.
First, I meant Easybalance instead of Aquasafe... I always get them mixed up XD
Secondly, I really don't have a bucket to put the catridge in.
I also do not anything to put my betta in. People have put bettas with neons, right?
I do not rinse the cartridge, in fact, after putting it in the filter, I have not touched it since.
Is the ammonia spike normal? And should I be gravel vacuuming? Will my fish be okay? Finally, how much prime conditioner should I put in?

 

Seems EasyBalance is some water treatment formula that claims less water changes are required and adjusts ph with its use. I would stop using it as it's not necessary and might do more harm than good.

You can just put the cartridge in a bowl or any clean container full of removed tank water. Yes, you'll want to vacuum your gravel to pick up any uneaten food and detritus.

People do put bettas in community tanks but it's a risk and not recommended. They may seem fine now but you never know when aggression will surface. And as mentioned, the neons and bettas are not temp compatible. Bettas need it at a min 78F and neons like it 75F and under. I would look into rehoming the betta if you can't set up another tank.

The spike in ammonia is normal in an uncycled tank. You'll know when you're cycled if you have ammonia and nitrite as 0 and >0 nitrates. Your fish will be protected as long as you are dosing Prime daily. You dose for the full volume of the tank so I believe it's 2ml for your tank size. You can also use a bacteria supplement to speed up the cycle like Tetra SafeStart Plus or Seachem Stability. What testing kit are you using?

 

Oh no... Just lost all my typing >
imma make this quick...

I use API freshwater master test kit
I do use Safestart
My tank water temperature stays at 79 without a use of heater.. Is it ok, but not ideal for neons?
What are recommended fish with bettas? I plan to get cory catfish and harlequin rasboras. If I cannot purchase any harlequin rasboras or they are nor compatible, what middle dwelling fish are recommended?
How often and when should I test water? (EX: test 2 times a week, before and after water change)
This may be off topic, but would a betta with a 135 degree finspan while flaring be a super delta or just regular betta? If this helps, his fin is pretty rounded when flaring... Almost mistaked him for a roundtail XD
Not mad or anything, ok nevermind I am a little for losing my typing...
thanks

 

Is the SafeStart that you added say "Monthly" in the front or "Start Up". You want the one that says "Start Up" to cycle your tank. And when did you add the TSS+? With TSS+, you're supposed to add it 24hrs after the last water change and then no water changes for 2 weeks until you show ammonia and nitrite at zero and rising nitrates. I will say though that 2 neon tetras may not register any nitrates due to their very low bioload. You may want to add 2-3 more.

I would never recommend bettas in communities so I really can't suggest a fish with them. Sorry. I know people keep them together and say it depends on the betta's personality but there have been instances where things were fine for a while and then things go badly all of a sudden and without warning. Just not worth the risk, IMO.

79F is not ideal for neons permanently as it would shorten their lifespans. Maybe you'll want to swap them out for cardinal tetras instead that can handle higher temps.

I don't know anything about betta types so I'll let someone else advise on what kind that is. Did you add him to the tank already?

 

Also I heard from many people that neon tetra are really sensitive and shouldn't be used for cycling.

 

Alright...

I really am fine with ahorter lifespans since I will be moving to Texas most likely and can't take all the fishies with me
I use TSS start up... Thanks dad
the betta is in the tank; should I still add more neons?
I am a bit afraid to not do a water change in 2 weeks because ammonia already goes to a level where I should do a water change at 1 week after a change. Still, 2 weeks before a change?
about waiting 24 hours... Oh... I guess I read the directions wrong...
A betta would not be my choice for a community tank either, but he was given for free and got attatched to him and so I can't give him away and everything must revolve around him... I know....

 

Why don't you rehome the neons now then if you don't plan on keeping them? It's not fair to them when you say you don't care about them having shorter lifespans.

Yes TSS+ requires 2 weeks with no water change in order for it to work but if you didn't wait the 24 hrs and just dumped it in, then it most likely failed anyway.

I'd rehome the neons to a store that will take them and then get TSS+ or Seachem Stability if you don't feel comfortable not doing water changes for the 2 weeks.

 

It's not that I plan to not keep them, I just plan to keep them for just over a year which is about their majority of life, and then they can be rehomed.
Because I didn't use TSS properly, has the cycle not even started?

I statred to put in prime daily from yesterday

 

It's not that I plan to not keep them, I just plan to keep them for just over a year which is about their majority of life, and then they can be rehomed.
Because I didn't use TSS properly, has the cycle not even started?

I statred to put in prime daily from yesterday

Not true. Under the right temp and conditions, neons can live up to 5 years.

You are cycling. It's just that the bacteria in TSS+ probably died off from the water conditioner you used with the water change. You might want to add another bottle.

Here's a thread on TSS+ that may help:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

 

Wait a minute... Add one full bottle or juat the ammount I need for my tank volume (10 ML)? If the neons survive, they can be rehomed/sold because I would need to cycle the tank again because the tankwater goes byebye and the filter cartridge will probably not be able to be in water... Will keep the betta tho

 

Why start a tank when you're gonna move soon anyways? Don't mean to be nosy but, what's the point of stressing those neons and all if your gonna move soon? Why not start when you move to the new location?

 

Wait a minute... Add one full bottle or juat the ammount I need for my tank volume (10 ML)? If the neons survive, they can be rehomed/sold because I would need to cycle the tank again because the tankwater goes byebye and the filter cartridge will probably not be able to be in water... Will keep the betta tho

When did you add the TSS+? So if you didn't add the whole bottle, how much and how often were you dosing it? Yes, you needed to add the full bottle appropriate for your tank size and then do no water changes for 2 weeks.

You wouldn't need to cycle the tank again if you rehomed the neons. Your bacteria will just grow to the amount of ammonia your betta produces.

 

I added TSS today along with the daily prime dose. From now I will add TSS 24hrs after every water change, which you said is 2 weeks between changes. I dose 10mL every time because that is the appropriate amount for my tank, as the instructions said. I have like a 300 mL bottle or something. All that in one dose? Hopefully not... Ironically my parents agreed to setup the tank

 

Hey I don't need to know your real name but is your name actually daniel kI'm or your just using the actors Daniel KI'm name? Not asking for your real name if it isn't daniel kI'm tho

 

No, unfortunately that's not how TSS+ should be used. If you read the link in post 12 and my previous post, you have to add an entire bottle of TSS+ 24 hours after your water change. Then you do NO water changes for two weeks and no Prime. Test water parameters after 2 weeks and if you show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and some nitrates, you're cycled.

How much TSS+ do you have left? What size bottle did you get?

Edit: Are you sure you got the one that says "Start Up" on the bottle?

 

Like I said in my previous posts, I have a 300 mL bottle of TSS+ and 3/4 of it is left.
It does say start up on it.

So you are saying that I should pour in about 225 mL of TSS+ right now?

Oh I'm so dumb... The bottle says it treats up to 100 gallons of water... So I probably shouldn't dump all that in

-Someone who didn't know an actor named Daniel KI'm existed

 

No, that's fine So tomorrow (24 hrs after you added Prime), just add the rest of the entire bottle in. You can't overdose on the stuff. Then wait 2 full weeks without doing any water changes or dosing any Prime. Test after the 2 weeks and if you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and some nitrates, you are cycled. You can then do a water change. You won't need TSS+ after this because you have the nitrifying bacteria required to process the ammonia and nitrite.

You'll want to stick to weekly water changes after that of around 30-50%, keeping nitrates below 40ppm, under 20ppm is ideal.

 

Well, I kinda wanna save some of it because my parents always want to save money, so I would like to keep it at minimum dose... Is there a formula I can use or someone can use to help me?

 

Well, I would at least put in half the bottle but I don't know if TSS+ will be effective after it's been opened. I'm guessing their monthly product is fine when it's been opened but not sure about their start up bottle since its purpose is for all of it to be used.

 

Will it work after 2 1/2 weeks? It's been that long

 

I'd still go ahead and use it. No use wasting it if it is good.

 

It does say to store in a room temp. area. So does that mean it may work?

 

Ok so after I got home from school, I used half of the TSS I had. I cannot do water changes on the weekdays, so should I wait 11 days or 17 days? After that amount of time, should I do a water change after testing the water? Or should I add more fish? After adding fish, should I put in more TSS? I plan to get more neons. How many should I buy? Should I cycle again after adding the fish? These are questions I must need.

 

Welcome to fishlore

 

Ok so after I got home from school, I used half of the TSS I had. I cannot do water changes on the weekdays, so should I wait 11 days or 17 days? After that amount of time, should I do a water change after testing the water? Or should I add more fish? After adding fish, should I put in more TSS? I plan to get more neons. How many should I buy? Should I cycle again after adding the fish? These are questions I must need. ��

Have you read any of my posts and the TSS+ link?

As mentioned to you before, you should NOT be doing water changes for the next 14 days or else TSS+ will fail and you will not complete your cycle. After the 14th day, test your water parameters and if you show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some nitrates you are cycled. You can then do a large water change and add more fish.

You shouldn't need TSS+ anymore after you're cycled because you now have enough bacteria to process the ammonia and nitrite on its own. And didn't you say you didn't want to waste a whole bottle? If you can use the whole bottle, then I'd dump it in now.

I've already given you my advice on neons.

It seems like you don't fully understand the nitrogen cycle, so I also suggest reading more about it.