Cycling a tank with poop??!!

I read somewhere that you can't start the cycle unless u add a fish, I have to admit I don't really understand how to cycle although I did read the stickies which were very imformative so I get the main idea of it, somehow my tanks have managed to achieve it in the past, I know ammonia turns into nitrite and then in to helpful nitrate... That's about it

Can't I add small amounts of poopy water from my established tank to help it cycle?
I've already put in some java moss from my established tanks and the filter in their was used several times in established tanks(I know this should help it along) and some small snails, also what about some little flakes? All of the gravel I first put in there was used many times by my other tanks.

Thanks

 

You should really get a firmer understanding of the nitrogen cycle; it's the most important piece of knowledge to have if you want to be a successful aquarist, in my opinion. Feel free to click the underlined text and read up on it. In a nutshell, you're mostly correct: fish produce waste, which decays and produces ammonia. Ammonia is toxic to fish, but there are bacteria which consume ammonia and produce nitrite. Unfortunately, nitrite is also toxic to fish, but there are other bacteria which consume nitrite and produce nitrate. Nitrate isn't helpful per se, but it is only toxic in very high concentrations. You know your tank is cycled once ammonia and nitrite are at 0ppm, and you have a measurable nitrate reading. This is why you must have a test kit in order to determine if your tank is cycled; a tank being set up for a certain length of time is not an accurate way to determine this. The goal is to keep nitrates below 20ppm through weekly water changes, though plants also help reduce nitrates.

It is incorrect that you must have fish to cycle a tank. There are multiple ways to cycle without fish: you can add pure ammonia directly into the tank (though make sure it doesn't contain any surfactants - it shouldn't bubble when shaken), you can add crushed fish food, or put a few pieces of raw shrimp into a stocking and hang it in the tank (though I hear this method is rather stinky). Plants won't help a cycle really, unless they're coming from a very established tank, in which case there may be bacteria growing on the plant (most of the bacteria lives in the filter media, but it does grow on surfaces in the tank). Snails (assuming by "small snails" you mean likely pond snails or ramshorns) do not contribute enough to the bioload to help a cycle. IE they don't produce enough waste to feed the growing bacteria.

If you wish to cycle WITH fish, then you should really purchase a product called Tetra SafeStart. TSS contains the beneficial bacteria that you're trying to grow. There are other products that claim to contain these bacteria, but they actually contain the terrestrial version, which doesn't last very long in your tank, which is why the instructions on these products state you must add some to the water every week. Avoid these; they're out-competing the aquatic bacteria that you want, and you'll never truly attain a cycle. The only cycling product that has been used with consistent success is Tetra SafeStart.

Cycling with fish, but without TSS, is not good for the health of the fish. It shortens their lifespan in the long run. If you are unable to cycle without fish (IE bought fish before understanding the nitrogen cycle) and cannot purchase TSS, then your best bet is frequent water changes with either Seachem Prime or Kordon NovAqua+ and Amquel+. These products (if you go with the Kordon brand, then you need both bottles, as they cover different things) not only "condition" the water by removing chlorine and chloramine, but also neutralize ammonia and nitrite to keep your fish protected while your tank cycles. However, it sounds like you're able to cycle without fish, which is best for everyone - healthier fish and a less stressed fish owner.

Anyway, about the poopy water: your water should never get "poopy" enough that it would actually help to cycle another tank. If your water looks noticeably poopy, then you need to do much more frequent water changes, at LEAST once weekly, but more if your nitrates are still above 20ppm. If you wish to cycle without fish, which is the best route to take, then the easiest/most accurate way is to purchase pure ammonia. With a test kit - such as the API freshwater master test kit (strips are very inaccurate, so you definitely want a liquid kit) - you can be certain that you keep the ammonia levels at the right place while the tank is cycling. There needs to be enough ammonia to feed the growing bacteria colony, but not so much that you actually kill the bacteria. This thread explains various ways to cycle without fish: https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/four-methods-of-fish-less-cycling.48446/

Hope this helps!

 

Wow! Thanks so much! You've added immensely to my small understanding!

It doesn't sound nice to put a fish in a toxic tank, even for a short time, I think I'll stick with fishless cycling

I can't remember what my snails where off the top of my head, but they have small, long and pointy shells, and breed like rabbits!

The poopy water I would be taking from the fry rank, they poop so much in only 1week!!!!
I should really get one of those ammonia test kits, you know what, I'll go to the LFS today and get one
I'll check out if they have any pure ammonia aswell!

Also really cool link!
Thanks again!

 

Glad you found it helpful. Be sure to get a liquid kit and not strips (most members, myself included, use the API freshwater master test kit which has everything you need). Testing for nitrite, nitrate, and pH are just as important. I doubt a pet store will have pure ammonia, but most hardware stores should.

 

Lol, I went up to the LFS with $9 AUD in my pocket thinking that should be enough (my other tests were similar prices) and only get there to realize I don't have enough with me, oops!
I found the one you are talking about though, the place I checked out was quite expensive so I'll check the other stores for there prices... Why didn't I just bring more with me *slaps head* oh well.... Will have to go back.

 

I don't know how USD converts to AUD but at pet stores here, it's about $30USD. You can find it for around $20USD online, though. It lasts a long time though, and it's very accurate. It's also cheaper than strips in the long run, since it lasts longer.