Cycling a betta tank

I'm on day 7 of a fishless cycle. (No nitrites yet), but I was wondering- If the tank is only going to house one fish (and about 2 small plants) is it still necessary to bring the ammonia up higher than 2ppm to start? I'm using the fish food method so that obviously makes my control over ammonia levels a tad more difficult.

2.5 gal tank, sponge filter, heater, gravel, no fish

ammonia- 2, nitrites- 0, nitrate- 0, P.H.- 7.6, temp- 81*

~Thanks

 

First. Welcome to the forums.

Using the fish food method can take quite a long time to get the beneficial bacteria to get going. However no nitrates almost sounds like none are there. Are you using TSS or Stability to add beneficial bacteria?

 

Thank you for the welcome

The only thing I used were Prime and API Stress Zyme during the initial filling of the tank.

edit* Just tested again and my ammonia is still on the rise, now it's a bit over a 2 (maybe 2.5ppm) and still no nitrite. It's only day 8, but I really hope to see some nitrites and nitrates soon.

 

I would also redose with stress zyme for the full tank amount. Haven't used that so not sure of it's exact instructions. I know Seachem Prime has a 7 day regiment when you start a tank. Read the instructions should say how many days to do it.

((Edit removed the part about prime. Wow I need more coffee))

 

If there's no fish in the tank then I wouldn't worry about adding any chemicals to make it safe for them

I might remove a bit of the fish food with a turkey baster though to try to control how high it rises. Too high (I think about 4ppm) and your BB can be harmed.

 

I love the turkey baster idea and will definitely be doing that! I've tried to keep all the fish food in a mesh fishnet, but there have been plenty pellets that have escaped on me.

 

Hi, welcome to fishlore

Stress zyme doesn't contain the bacteria that you need to help finish your cycle. It contains bacteria (heterotrophic) that break down organics like fish food etc. That is probably why you are seeing a fast ammonia reading, which is good.

I'd pick up a bottle of Tetra Safe Start Plus or Seachem Stability and put the whole bottle into your tank (of either) which will speed the cycle up for you.

 

If there's no fish in the tank then I wouldn't worry about adding any chemicals to make it safe for them

I might remove a bit of the fish food with a turkey baster though to try to control how high it rises. Too high (I think about 4ppm) and your BB can be harmed.

Sometimes adding prime when you have a higher ph will help the cycle move along because it puts the ammonia into an ammonium form.

This is important because I have read through a bunch of studies recently that show both ammonia and nitrites, even at low amounts are inhibiting to the growth of the bacteria. More and more I think lower ammonia to cycle will be faster than high and using a binder like prime will help (except in cases of TSS+).

In an email with Seachem they confirmed this also (that its better to have ammonium than ammonia for the bacteria).

 

That's very interesting, thanks CindiL!

 

So just to update-
Day 12
PH-7.8, temp- 82*, ammonia- 3.5.
I removed the net full of fish food. I'm guessing now I just wait for ammonia levels to go down (?) The nitrite still gave me a 0 and I didn't bother testing for nitrate yet.

I was also wondering if/when I should add plants to the tank during the cycle. (I would have to turn the temp down maybe 2 or 3 degrees.) I have a marimo ball and an anubias in a wide mouth jar waiting to go in. I read conflicting information online about adding plants during fishless cycling and wanted to hear other's opinions on it.

 

You can definitely add plants while cycling, they will consume the ammonia also but there will be plenty for the bacteria.

Yes now wait for it to drop. Actually I would change enough water to get the ammonia back down to 2.0.

Did you end up picking up some Stability or Tetra Safe Start Plus?

 

I am going to grab some TSS over the weekend. It seems to be the product I hear everyone mentioning that they use during tank cycling. Just to clarify, it's beneficial to add it even though it's a fishless cycle?

 

Yep, the bacteria doesn't care if their ammonia source is coming from fish or a bottle . but they do care if the the ammonia is too high as it will inhibit their growth. So make sure to get it down to 2.0 or under first.

 

Yep, the bacteria doesn't care if their ammonia source is coming from fish or a bottle . but they do care if the the ammonia is too high as it will inhibit their growth. So make sure to get it down to 2.0 or under first.

Awesome, thanks! This has been a great help.

 

If there's no fish in the tank then I wouldn't worry about adding any chemicals to make it safe for them

I might remove a bit of the fish food with a turkey baster though to try to control how high it rises. Too high (I think about 4ppm) and your BB can be harmed.

Quick question about this - don't you need to put at least something to dechlorinate because wouldnt that kill any bacteria that is beginning to grow? Does stress zyme dechlorinate?

 

Good point!

 

Good point!

Well I don't have those often! Someone archive this thread for posterity!! Lol.

 

Lol!

 

Ha ha, just assumed you knew to do that

 

Update*

Day 13 I did about 20% water change, didn't touch the gravel and siphoned away from the sponge filter. At the time my ammonia reading was almost at 4ppm. Added new water that had been treated with Prime.

24 hours later (today) I added the TSS+, but I have an ammonia reading of a solid 1ppm! **face plant** I guess I didn't account for all the evaporation and water samples that had been removed from the tank and I diluted the ammonia too much. I also added my plants during the pwc.

Nitrate and nitrite are still 0.

Should I throw a towel over the tank and pretend it doesn't exist or add a pinch of fish food?

 

I think 1.0 is just fine for TSS+. No worries. You could add a small amount of food, it won't break down immediately anyways.

 

Day 15

Ammonia- 1ppm (pinch of fish food floating in fishnet)
PH- 7.8, Nitrite- 0, Nitrate- 0, temp- 81.5*

Is it normal to still have no nitrite or nitrate? I understand cycling takes time, but I am concerned something is wrong. I used a test strip to check for chlorine and it shows 0.
It was only yesterday that I dumped the whole (itty-bitty) bottle of TSS+ in the tank... Hope that wasn't overkill.

~Thanks!

 

Cycling without a bacterial additive can take 4-8, even up to 12 weeks.

There isn't overkill with the bacterial additive, if its needed it will grow, if not what isn't needed will die off or shrink over time. You only added it yesterday, you can re-test daily if you want to but I wouldn't expect much until a few days (minimum) has gone by.

Make sure to always bang nitrate bottle no.2 on your hand or counter top for 30 seconds before using. Are you using the liquid test kit? I'd recommend getting it if not. If strips they're not very sensitive and you won't see much in regards to nitrates until they're close to 10.

 

Yes, I've been using the API freshwater master test kit. I also have test strips, but I don't really use them. Good to know about the nitrate bottle #2! I had just been giving it one gentle shake up until now.

Thank you for the reassurance

 

You're welcome

Yeah, you'll get a false negative with it otherwise. I usually smack it against the palm of my hand really hard for 30 seconds before using it.

 

*update... again

Thank you so much, you nailed it! Banged the bottle for 30 seconds on my hand and tested again....

guess who has 5.0 ppm nitrates? Me!

Any advice on what I do from here is greatly appreciated. I'm guessing I sit back and wait for ammonia to drop. Thanks again. I never thought I'd be so happy to see a test tube change color.

 

That's a good question with fish food. Hmmm. Fish food is always putting out ammonia and we don't know exactly how much since the nitrifyers will start consuming it like they are now. So, I guess once ammonia is 0 and nitrites are 0 for a few days while you have the food in then you could add in your betta. I'd probably put in a tiny bottle of TSS+ again with him just to be safe. OR you could put him in and keep him safe with Prime (if necessary). I can't remember, will you remind me if you have Prime?

 

Yes, I used Seachem Prime.

The fishfood is floating in a net that I can remove, even though that probably won't be 100% effective in removing the ammonia sources. I will leave it in for now. There is only a few small pellets in it. (I also have a couple of plants in the tank.)

I believe the ammonia is at about 1ppm today.

So I'll just leave things alone, but continue to test the ammonia.

You have been a great help. It's difficult to find every little detail online especially regarding the fishfood method.

 

I think it's ok to leave it in also because a fish would be putting out ammonia constantly too so when levels go to 0 and stay there I think it's safe to say you'll be cycled.

 

I think it's ok to leave it in also because a fish would be putting out ammonia constantly too so when levels go to 0 and stay there I think it's safe to say you'll be cycled.

Sounds good to me

 

Does anyone know of (or has had experience with) getting a nitrate reading without ever seeing a nitrite reading? I have had 0 nitrites since day 1. I test the tank every day so it's hard to believe I could miss a nitrite spike.

Is there anything that could be giving me a false positives on nitrates?
Should all the testing bottles be given a good shaking before use?

Sorry I have so many questions. I swear I Google

 

No worries!

Yes it is quite common to skip the nitrites entirely. Something about the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite being slower to establish than the ones that turn nitrites to nitrates

I've only once seen a nitrite spike while cycling. Very pretty test tube colour!

 

No worries!

Yes it is quite common to skip the nitrites entirely. Something about the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite being slower to establish than the ones that turn nitrites to nitrates

I've only once seen a nitrite spike while cycling. Very pretty test tube colour!

Thanks That's good to know. I do feel a little ripped off not getting to see the test tube turn periwinkle

 

The only time I see people not see nitrite spikes is with TSS+. It must have an over abundance of nitrospira bacteria in it because that bacteria is slower to multiply than the ammonia converting bacteria (nitrosonomas) and usually you see a high spike for a couple of weeks in a "normal" cycle.

 

Hm. I wonder if I have the bacteria in my tap water? Or used to. I've only cycled one tank since moving to the place I live now. I'd be willing to bet that I did have bacteria in the tap at the last place! There was some doubt about the safety of the plumbing in that place...

 

The only time I see people not see nitrite spikes is with TSS+. It must have an over abundance of nitrospira bacteria in it because that bacteria is slower to multiply than the ammonia converting bacteria (nitrosonomas) and usually you see a high spike for a couple of weeks in a "normal" cycle.

Interesting, (I did use the whole bottle of TSS+). For the rest of the cycle, should I expect to never get a nitrite reading?

 

Its possible

If ammonia is lowering and nitrates are rising that is the most important thing here.

 

Cycled? Day 19

I have what looks like a reading of 0 ammonia. There are 0 nitrite, and nitrate maybe a little over 5? Nitrate isn't very high at all.

The fishnet, that has a couple of fish food pellets in it, is still in the tank. The pellets are almost completely dissolved.

Is it cycled or just very close to being cycled?

 

It seems like it may be. I would maybe try adding new fish food and see if that boosts the ammonia.

 

It seems like it. This is just for a betta right? You could add a few more pellets and if all looks good get your betta. Or if you feel like the pellets were putting out enough ammonia then add in your betta.