Cycle Taking Forever

I’ve tried to cycle my freshwater tank a few times now. Before starting this current attempt I made sure to really research and make sure I had all of the tools I needed to be successful.

Here are the parameters:

10 gallon tank
Fluval 30 filter with Biomax rocks and foam pads
Gravel substrate with one small and one medium sized fake plants
Tetra heater which automatically sets to between 74 and 84 degrees (it’s consistently stayed at 76 degrees since install.
Air stone

On day one I treated the water with Seachem prime then added Seachem Stability and API QuickStart. Then I added 32 drops of Dr. Tims Pure Ammonia. The next day I tested and ammonia was 1 PPM, PH - 8.2., Nitrite- 0

I wanted Ammonia to be at 2PPM so I added another 15 drops of Ammonia, waited 24 hours and retested. After 24 hours the Ammonia was 2/4 PH - 8.2, Nitrites - 0

Since then I’ve tested every day and the levels have stayed as: Ammonia - 2, PH 8/8.2, Nitrites- 0. This is where the levels have stayed. No change in Ammonia and no Nitrites, PH has also stayed in the 8/8.2 range. I’ve added Stability and QuickStart Periodically over the past few weeks, I have not added any additional ammonia since day two. I’m on day 20 with no change in Ammonia and zero Nitrites.

I’m wondering if there’s anything else I should be doing or can do to get this moving along? Am I on the right track and just need to wait it out? I also noticed this brown algae looking stuff today, small patches on the substrate and a lot of it on my bio stone. Is this diatoms and is it a sign I’m almost done?


Appreciate any help!


Thanks!

 

I can help you with the algae: those are diatoms, or brown algae. They feed on the silicate that's naturally in tap water. It's very common in new tanks and may or may not clear up. Nerites will eat it, but I wouldn't put any in until your cycle nears its end. If you add a bunch of live plants, they may also out-compete it for resources, but that hasn't been the case for me. It sticks around pretty easily, but it won't harm your tank.

As for why your bacteria isn't building, I'm not sure. Hopefully someone else can help with that.

 

Few pointers , which work for me but everyone is different.

1. ‘Bottle bacteria’ from shelves in the stores is inconsistent. Sometimes it helped me a little sometimes it doesn’t. Fritzyme 700/turbo boost always works for me, but it’s very expensive and bacteria in a bottle isn’t a must/need, it’ll cycle regardless.
2. Have you touched (cleaned) the filter? If so, leave alone.
3. What about water changes? Seems from PH (though not an end all indicator) you have hard water. As do I. I am not sure if you top off or change but I would discourage topping off and change 30-40% every 5 days. Make sure you use a water conditioner/prime with changes because chlorine from the tap will stunt cycling. Water changes are big for me even when cycling. Re apply ammonia after changes to get back to 2-4 ppm.
4. Those look like diatoms to me. If you weren’t doing water change, this will help. Also once you clean it up, you can try adding some Phosgaurd to the filter and it should help keep them at bay. Live plants will also help if you want to go that route.
5. 20 days isn’t too long, your BB that eats ammonia is going to come soon, then your BB that consumes Nitrite will take a bit after that. Have patience, it will happen.
6. Raising temps to around 80+ would help speed it up, but not required.

 

Day 20 is nothing. It can, and usually does, take months to cycle a tank from scratch. When starting from scratch its usually around the second or third week that youll see nitrites, so youre due any day now. Dont worry, it takes time and youre doing the right things.

 

You are adding too many things. Stick to just adding the ammonia and let it do it’s thing. Or use tetra Safestart plus and a couple fish and get on with it . What are you planning to add?

 

Few pointers , which work for me but everyone is different.

1. ‘Bottle bacteria’ from shelves in the stores is inconsistent. Sometimes it helped me a little sometimes it doesn’t. Fritzyme 700/turbo boost always works for me, but it’s very expensive and bacteria in a bottle isn’t a must/need, it’ll cycle regardless.
2. Have you touched (cleaned) the filter? If so, leave alone.
3. What about water changes? Seems from PH (though not an end all indicator) you have hard water. As do I. I am not sure if you top off or change but I would discourage topping off and change 30-40% every 5 days. Make sure you use a water conditioner/prime with changes because chlorine from the tap will stunt cycling. Water changes are big for me even when cycling.
4. Those look like diatoms to me. If you weren’t doing water change, this will help. Also once you clean it up, you can try adding some Phosgaurd to the filter and it should help keep them at bay.
5. 20 days isn’t too long, your BB that eats ammonia is going to come soon, then your BB that consumes Nitrite will take a bit after that. Have patience, it will happen.
6. Raising temps to around 80+ would help speed it up, but not required.

Few pointers , which work for me but everyone is different.

1. ‘Bottle bacteria’ from shelves in the stores is inconsistent. Sometimes it helped me a little sometimes it doesn’t. Fritzyme 700/turbo boost always works for me, but it’s very expensive and bacteria in a bottle isn’t a must/need, it’ll cycle regardless.
2. Have you touched (cleaned) the filter? If so, leave alone.
3. What about water changes? Seems from PH (though not an end all indicator) you have hard water. As do I. I am not sure if you top off or change but I would discourage topping off and change 30-40% every 5 days. Make sure you use a water conditioner/prime with changes because chlorine from the tap will stunt cycling. Water changes are big for me even when cycling. Re apply ammonia after changes to get back to 2-4 ppm.
4. Those look like diatoms to me. If you weren’t doing water change, this will help. Also once you clean it up, you can try adding some Phosgaurd to the filter and it should help keep them at bay. Live plants will also help if you want to go that route.
5. 20 days isn’t too long, your BB that eats ammonia is going to come soon, then your BB that consumes Nitrite will take a bit after that. Have patience, it will happen.
6. Raising temps to around 80+ would help speed it up, but not required.

Thank you! That helps. I’ll look into Phosguard and Fritzyme.

I have not touched or cleaned the filter since setup. I haven’t done any water changes either because I read that water changes during fishless cycles aren’t needed until you near the end and only nitrates are present.
I did however add 2 gallons of dechlorinated water two days ago, The water level was getting lower because of evaporation I’m assuming, I had lost a good 2.5 gallons since setup. I dechlorinated 2 gallons and topped off the tank. I didn’t remove any water, didn’t clean, and I was careful not to disturb the substrate. The filter would have trouble functioning if I had let it get much lower.
Aside from that I haven’t done anything but test and add stability and quick start.

 

Youre not adding too much of anything, youre doing everything right. Topping off evaporated water with dechlorinated water is 100% fine, no worries there. Keep plugging away, be patient, it will get there.

 

Can only say what works for me. Topping off with hard water messes with my KH/GH. My KH is already low coming out and GH is extremely high. If I just top off, my GH will continue to rise and my KH will crash. Which isn’t ideal if your water is just sitting there without fresh coming in. I learned the hard way (pun intended). Not sure if you know your values.

It will cycle regardless. But again, only speaking from my own experience, the tanks I change water in during cycling complete the process much faster. Why? This I am unsure but probably something to do with my water source. Maybe more oxygen to the BB? Maybe because it raised my PH? I’m sure there is more to it but I haven’t specifically looked into it. I have however cycled tanks without doing so and it took much longer.

 

My PH has been 8/8.2 for most of the cycle. I know my tap water is hard. If the hardness were causing a delayed cycle would I see a drop in PH or would it not really affect the PH?

 

My PH has been 8/8.2 for most of the cycle. I know my tap water is hard. If the hardness were causing a delayed cycle would I see a drop in PH or would it not really affect the PH?

Nope, you’re fine. You’d see a drop in PH if your KH crashed. But since it’s held for a while I’d assume you’re fine. A little drop is normal...I’m talking a steep drop below 6.5. Your tank will cycle, just needs patience.

 

That makes sense! Thank you for your help!

 

I haven’t seen any change in the values as of today. I went to a local pet store today to see if I could get my hands on a piece of used filter from one of their tanks. They were not that nice so I didn’t have any luck with that. Lol

I was talking to the employee and after telling her what was going on with the cycle I mentioned I had Diatoms. She told me that if I am seeing diatoms I am finished cycling. I have not read that anywhere and Ive actually read the opposite. Is she right? Doesn’t really makes sense to me....

She suggested I do a 25% water change, add half my original dose of ammonia and wait 24 hours then test again. I did that but I also added Microbe-lift Water Cleaner that is suppose to have nitrifying bacteria. After the water change PH - 8, Ammonia - .25, Nitrites - 0, Nitrate - 10
A few questions...

1 - Since I added half the original dose of ammonia I’m thinking the ammonia will be between 1 and 2 now. If tomorrow ammonia is back to .25 or .50 could that mean I am cycled? Even if I dont see nitrites?

2- Is it possible that the ammonia is converting to nitrites so slowly and in small increments that the test kit isn’t picking it up?

3- I’ve also had a lot of water evaporation, this might be a silly question but could water evaporating keep the nitrate level down?

My theory is that the tank is cycled, it’s slowwwwly converting ammonia to nitrites, test kit isn’t picking up the nitrite values, and it’s converting to nitrates but becuase of water evaporation that level hasn’t skyrocketed. Is that a crazy theory? Obviously if I test tomorrow and ammonia is 1 or 2 like I’m thinking it will be....with zero nitrites, I’m not cycled and get to keep on going.....wooo! lol

 

More great information to bookmark! Thanks!!

 

Diatoms do not mean your cycle is finished. It means that your tank is cycling, and they may stick around once it's finished, but I do not think that statement about the diatoms is correct.

 

Unfortunately, without media from a cycled tank, the growth of beneficial bacteria takes 6 to 8 weeks. Keeping the ammonia at 4ppm should help some. Here's a calculator that should make dosing with ammonia easier: Ammonia Calculator for Aquariums - Spec-Tanks

Also, the term cycled does not refer to the presence some of beneficial bacteria; it refers to the presence of enough to keep your fish being poisoned by their own waste. The test is to raise your ammonia to 2ppm, and wait 24 hours. If you still have ammonia or nitrites at that point, your tank has not cycled, even if the levels have changed.

One final point: unless they work at a specialty fish shop, take what store employees say with a grain of salt. The one you talked to has no idea what she is talking about. Diatoms are a sign your tank has not cycled, not the other way around.

Oh, and to answer your question about evaporation, no. When water evaporates, it doesn't take the nitrates with it. The only things that can remove nitrates are water changes and plants.

 

That makes sense and I agree. I thought it was odd and just confused me. I didn’t touch the filter or media when I did the water change. I added 15 drops of ammonia. That should bring it to atleast 2ppm. I’ll retest tomorrow and go from there. Thanks again!

 

Diatoms does not mean you are cycled. Also, youre still EARLY in the cycle. Keep pluggin' away, you WILL see nitrites and then nitrates and eventually your ammonia will go away. Only after youve seen nitrites and then your ammonia and nitrites disappear, leaving just nitrates, will you be cycled. This will take up to 2+ months.

 

Since then I’ve tested every day and the levels have stayed as: Ammonia - 2, PH 8/8.2, Nitrites- 0. This is where the levels have stayed. No change in Ammonia and no Nitrites, PH has also stayed in the 8/8.2 range. I’ve added Stability and QuickStart Periodically over the past few weeks, I have not added any additional ammonia since day two. I’m on day 20 with no change in Ammonia and zero Nitrites.
Appreciate any help
Thanks!

Hopefully we can get to the bottom of why your cycle hasn't even started. I would have expected to at least to be seeing the ammonia dropping down at least some within 20 days.

First, Seeing or not seeing diatoms has nothing to do with whether or not your tank is cycled or is cycling. I'm not sure how anyone would come up with that.

What kind of water are you using in your tank? Meaning, tap, RO, distilled..... Is the water in the tank the same water you started with? Meaning have you done any water changes since you started this cycle? I re-read the thread and see you have already answered this.

You say you have previously tried to cycle this tank and have not been successful. Did you buy the tank new or was it used? If used do you know if it was ever cleaned with something that could have leached into the silicone? If used and you don't know you may want to discard this one and get a new tank. Thankfully 10 gallon tanks are not very expensive.

That's enough for now. Answer these questions and we will go from there.

 

I can help you with the algae: those are diatoms, or brown algae. They feed on the silicate that's naturally in tap water. It's very common in new tanks and may or may not clear up. Nerites will eat it, but I wouldn't put any in until your cycle nears its end. If you add a bunch of live plants, they may also out-compete it for resources, but that hasn't been the case for me. It sticks around pretty easily, but it won't harm your tank.

As for why your bacteria isn't building, I'm not sure. Hopefully someone else can help with that.

A fishless cycle can take upwards of 6 weeks or longer.... Just stick with it test every day... are you running your filter and NOT changing out filter media. You do NOT want to start adding fish untill your cycle is complete and stable. If you have access to old used filter media from a PROVEN cycled tank, add that used media to your current filter in the tank you are cycling
Oh, and the diatoms are living proof your cycle is progressing, something is living...

 

Okay so quick update. I know it’s been a while and I’m sorry for not answering some of the questions.

I decided to start over because I realized that when I first started my last cycle before I got Dr.Tim’s I had used Walmart brand Ammonia for the first dose of ammonia. I had trouble getting Dr Tim’s initially and there weren’t an ingredients listed on the bottle of Walmart stuff so I thought it would be okay. After using it a few times I got worried because I read about ammonia with surfactants and if it foams, don’t use it. I got Dr Tim’s the next day and used it from then on. Well since my cycle wasn’t progressing after 5 weeks, I got to thinking the Walmart ammonia had caused an issue. I decided to do a tear down and start again after thoroughly rinsing everything and replacing the filter media. I was really sad to have to do that but I had a feeling the surfactants were somehow stalling my cycle.

So now...I’m on day three of my new cycle and I’m puzzled becuase im finally seeing results but I need guidance.

Day 1- After tear down, rinse and replace of filter media and substrate....
Conditioned using Prime
Added Dr Tim’s Ammonia
Added Microbe-Lift Water Care Bacteria


After an hour or so I tested the water.

PH- 7.8-8
Ammonia - 2-4
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - Didn’t Test

Day 2 -
PH - 7.8 - 8
Ammonia - 2-4
I didn’t bother testing Nitrites or Nitrates since Ammonia hadn’t changed

Day 3 - Today -
PH - 7.8
Ammonia - .5 - 1
Nitrites - 0 ??
Nitrates - 0 ?? I even repeated the test thinking I had messed up the test because it’s a tricky test.

The water is also SUPER cloudy. It was perfectly clear yesterday but this morning it’s drastically different. I got really excited but I’m confused why I don’t have either Nitrites or Nitrates if the ammonia is reduced and somethings clearly happening in the water.
Thoughts??

Thanks!

 

Cloudy water is good! You're getting a bacteria bloom which means that your bacteria is growing. The water should clear up within 5 days.

 

Since the ammonia is now between .5 and 1, should I add half the original dose of ammonia? Or do nothing, wait and retest tomorrow? I’m just wondering why I don’t have atleast nitrates if the ammonia is reduced.

 

Give it time. Time and patience are the two most important things we need when cycling a tank. The bottled bacteria may or may not speed up the cycling process. Add more ammonia each time it gets down close to zero. Since this is just a 10 gallon tank 2ppm ammonia is plenty.

Start looking for nitrites to rise at about 3 weeks. They may show up earlier but certainly not just after 3 or 4 days. Once you see nitrites you should start seeing nitrates soon after but it could take up to a week after starting to see nitrites before you start seeing nitrates.

Do nothing but test, add ammonia as needed and top off the evaporated water with treated water as needed. But most important, give it time.

 

Will do! I added a little less than half the original dose of ammonia today to keep it at about 2ppm. Otherwise I’ll leave it alone and do as suggested. I never got a bacteria bloom like this in my previous attempts to cycle so I’m excited!

 

Will do! I added a little less than half the original dose of ammonia today to keep it at about 2ppm. Otherwise I’ll leave it alone and do as suggested. I never got a bacteria bloom like this in my previous attempts to cycle so I’m excited!

The fact that your ammonia is going down this time tells us you are moving in the right direction. It seems breaking down and restarting the cycle was the right thing to do. I will suggest along with the bottled ammonia you also add a tiny pinch of ground up fish flakes at least every 3rd day throughout this cycling process but daily may be better.

If you've not already read it you may want to takes a few minutes to read my thoughts on why the fish food is needed. Adding a pinch of fish food

 

I’m now on day 27 of the cycle. I’m finally seeing a drop in ammonia, it had been steady at 2ppm but today it’s finally 1 ppm. I am still not seeing nitrites but I have trace nitrates, <.5 PH has remained steady at 8-8.2 this whole time. I’m just going to continue to watch it but is it typical to not see any nitrites until the ammonia is almost to zero? When I saw ammonia had dropped I thought ide see atleast a tiny bit of nitrites. Atleast two gallons of the water has evaporated now, would that affect the ammonia reading?