Could This Cpd Be Sick?

Meldyran

Member
I got 3 CPDs about a week and a half ago that I have been keeping in my 3 gallon to quarantine. I was thinking of adding them into my 10 gallon, but I'm reconsidering a bit. since I got them one of the three has looked a bit off to me. Innitially I thought maybe it was some kind of genetic issue that perhaps gave him a slightly bent back, but looking at him/her I'm considering if its more that his stomach is sunken.

Could this be parasites, or some other illness? He is slightly smaller than the other two and Ive always noticed him being slightly more passive/lethargic.

Parameters

Tank Cycled before adding fish
Use Liquid Solutions to test Water
: 7.8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
AKH: 9
GH/KH: 161.1

Here are some more pics I've also noticed that it's back fin does not open up as much as stays pretty straight
 

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PascalKrypt

Member
I have seen CPDs in an LFS that looked just like this, except it was some 5-6 out of a school of 20 or so. When I asked an employee about it, he told me that they saw it more often and it had to do with a developmental issue, as in they are not fed correctly (he didn't say a lack of food in general or a lack of quality/right type) during the early fry stages and end up like that - this is a shop where they usually know what they are talking about but I did not know that individual employee all that well. To be honest, I was not completely convinced. Curious to hear if anyone else has seen something like this and knows more, I'll keep an eye on this thread.
At the very least I would keep the three of them quarantined for 4-6 weeks and see if it spreads to the other two. If they are fine after 6 weeks it is probably okay (unless someone after me identifies a specific issue, that is)
 

Jimmie93

Member
In that second to last picture his face looks a bit messed up maybe the bigger fish is messing with him and stressing it out? You could separate the smaller one and see if he starts to feed better/improve if you have a extra tank or tub.
 

H Farnsworth

Member
Clamped fins is a common sign of stress but I know nothing about this fish specifically.
 
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Meldyran

Member
H Farnsworth said:
Clamped fins is a common sign of stress but I know nothing about this fish specifically.
It is possible that because ive been quarantining them for some time now in this relatively small set up that they may not be doing as good and may be stressed. But I recall feeling that I thought he looked a bit off since I got it. But it hasnt been until now when I considered adding them that I really took a look at him and started thinking about it.

PascalKrypt said:
I have seen CPDs in an LFS that looked just like this, except it was some 5-6 out of a school of 20 or so. When I asked an employee about it, he told me that they saw it more often and it had to do with a developmental issue, as in they are not fed correctly (he didn't say a lack of food in general or a lack of quality/right type) during the early fry stages and end up like that - this is a shop where they usually know what they are talking about but I did not know that individual employee all that well. To be honest, I was not completely convinced. Curious to hear if anyone else has seen something like this and knows more, I'll keep an eye on this thread.
At the very least I would keep the three of them quarantined for 4-6 weeks and see if it spreads to the other two. If they are fine after 6 weeks it is probably okay (unless someone after me identifies a specific issue, that is)
Thank you for your response this is actually kind of helpful. the store I got them from had a large school of about 50 and I recall noticing at least one that looked off like this guy. So perhaps it is a genetic defect that is being passed on and slowly weakening the gene pool in this species. Obviously this is just conjecture.

if you know anyone else who may be interested or may know, please feel free to tag them to this tread.
 

Rye3434

Member
I have cpds and have lost at least 3 of them to this. They got backs that looked bent and then eventually just passed.
 
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Meldyran

Member
Rye3434 said:
I have cpds and have lost at least 3 of them to this. They got backs that looked bent and then eventually just passed.
Do you recall them always being like this, or did you see it develop over time?
Did it spread to others, or is it only select individuals that have it?
 

SM1199

Member
Most importantly: is he eating? All my cpds looked pretty underweight with sunken in bellies when I got them but fattened right up in a few days. I find that their tiny mouths need equally tiny food. At first, they even had trouble eating the micropellets, so I had to crush those up.
 
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Meldyran

Member
SM1199 said:
Most importantly: is he eating? All my cpds looked pretty underweight with sunken in bellies when I got them but fattened right up in a few days. I find that their tiny mouths need equally tiny food. At first, they even had trouble eating the micropellets, so I had to crush those up.
Yeah one thing I was considering was that it may have a sunken belly that is making it's back look more bent than it is.

It is eating. I feed these three pumps hat I feed my other nin, the Betta min flakes.

I'll watch them clos ly again to make sure it's eating as much as the other two. I did notic on my last feeding that the bellies of one of them seemed Fuller so they may be out competing him for food.

Something that occurred to me to is that his head looks a bid different than the others. He may just still be young, but looking at his profile the ridge between his eyes seems lower and shorter than the others.
 

Rye3434

Member
Meldyran said:
Do you recall them always being like this, or did you see it develop over time?
Did it spread to others, or is it only select individuals that have it?
I've only seen it with a select few, it appeared suddenly.
 
  • Thread Starter

Meldyran

Member
SM1199 said:
Most importantly: is he eating? All my cpds looked pretty underweight with sunken in bellies when I got them but fattened right up in a few days. I find that their tiny mouths need equally tiny food. At first, they even had trouble eating the micropellets, so I had to crush those up.
I ve been feeding the thre eof them now and watching the closely. It does seem like he is not eating. He swims up to the food quickly, reflecibly, but he doesn't bite it. He will do this to every other flake, and just look at it.

Anyone have any thoghts?
 

SM1199

Member
Meldyran said:
I ve been feeding the thre eof them now and watching the closely. It does seem like he is not eating. He swims up to the food quickly, reflecibly, but he doesn't bite it. He will do this to every other flake, and just look at it.

Anyone have any thoghts?
This is what I think it might be. He may indeed have a slightly deformed face, and that's stopping him from eating properly. It might be a deformity due to inbreeding, unfortunately, which is why some of them might show up in a batch here and there but the others seem unaffected. I don't think his sunken belly is due to anything contagious, or else I would definitely expect the other two to be showing symptoms by now. At this point, not being able to eat is probably starting to discourage him from trying too hard. That coupled with weakness from not getting proper nutrition.

I would crush up some of the food into a powder as if you're feeding fry and see if he has an easier time eating that.
 
  • Thread Starter

Meldyran

Member
SM1199 said:
This is what I think it might be. He may indeed have a slightly deformed face, and that's stopping him from eating properly. It might be a deformity due to inbreeding, unfortunately, which is why some of them might show up in a batch here and there but the others seem unaffected. I don't think his sunken belly is due to anything contagious, or else I would definitely expect the other two to be showing symptoms by now. At this point, not being able to eat is probably starting to discourage him from trying too hard. That coupled with weakness from not getting proper nutrition.

I would crush up some of the food into a powder as if you're feeding fry and see if he has an easier time eating that.
Thank you this is a good idea.

I'm considering the other two in his set up also, and weather or not I should keep them in there, or separate him from the other too so I can fascillitate feeding while at the same time making sure I don't overfeed the others.
 
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Coradee

Moderator
Member
Hi, there does seem to be a problem with Cpd’s, whether it’s genetics, overbreeding or disease I don’t know but I lost quite a few of mine in a similar way.
I believe DoubleDutch has also experienced similar issues with them.
 
  • Thread Starter

Meldyran

Member
Coradee said:
Hi, there does seem to be a problem with Cpd’s, whether it’s genetics, overbreeding or disease I don’t know but I lost quite a few of mine in a similar way.
I believe DoubleDutch has also experienced similar issues with them.
Thank you for your tag and your reply.

It makes me curious though, because this CPD is relatively mature. So whatever diet or care he was receiving before I brough him home must have been adequate for him to survive this long - if in fact it is genetics.

or perhaps it could be a genetic disease that only appears in their last stage of development. Otherwise I wonder if anyone has been able to determine if its a contagious disease or not.
 

coralbandit

Member
The CPDs are coming infected with wasting disease.
It is a protozoa infection cured with flubendazole .Fenbebdazole works only if fish is eating and mixed with food.
The flubendazole is absorbed ..
Fenbendazole. I do have Fenbendazole 10%. It works for a number of things but it is not absorbed through their skin or gills. It must be eaten to be effective. Pricing is the same as Flubendazole below.


Flubendazole 10 % powder
Postage is to increase in 2016 soon.

Best for eliminating Hydra. Treats protozoa wasting disease, serious treatment for Velvet, enternal and external parasites, 1/4 teaspoon of 10 % powder treats about 20 gallons of water for most parasitic Protozoa. Eliminate Carbon filtration during treatment. Change most of the water after 10 days. Will not harm plants, Prolonged use will kill most snails. .......

Taken from ;

Levamisole, Flubendazole & other chemicals for the aquarium
 

tjander

Member
Shouldn’t CPD be kept in groups of 6 or more. I seem to remember reading that in small numbers they get stressed and potentially sick.
 

WTFish?

Member
I can’t say if it’s the exact same thing mine had but it looks very similar. I had one die, then 2 more came down with it so I quarantined them and used apI fungus cure, 2 doses. They came back perfectly normal after a few weeks. Still going strong almost a year later. Obviously if it’s genetics it won’t help but it really does look similar to me.
I need to add that for the first one, I tried general cure and then fenbendazole with kanaplex before she died.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Coradee said:
Hi, there does seem to be a problem with Cpd’s, whether it’s genetics, overbreeding or disease I don’t know but I lost quite a few of mine in a similar way.
I believe DoubleDutch has also experienced similar issues with them.
Yeah mine had exactly what WTFish mentioned and looked like this..

I thought it might be a viral issue (like DGD) but coralbandit could definitely be right though mine were healthy at the start.

Of topic : Again I want to ask the mods if it is an idea to make a subforum for species-specific disease.

CPD's
DGD
Neons with with mouth ulcers
Columnaris in neons
Etc..

A lot of us have already answered hundreds of threads with exactly the same issues. Noticing I leave it nowadays.
 
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Meldyran

Member
Thanks Guys, Ill keep the quaratined for a bit longer and treat them with ParaGuard to eliminate the possibility of wasting disease
- never really trated fish before, will Paraguard be enough to eliminate most possibilities of infection?
 
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Meldyran

Member
I have a small update for anyone interested.

I ended up placing all three of the fish in a smaller container and doing a 1hr dip of the Paraguard before placing them back. a day later I added the two healthy ones in my 10 gallon with my other nine. It has been about a week since the dip, and the CPD seems to be doing better.

I'm basing this solely on his activity levels, and sings like his back fin not being as straight and clamped as before. However, physically I haven't detected a marked difference yet.

He is much more interested in food now, which I am happy about, however he definitely has a problem eating. I feed him what I do my other CPDs which are fish flakes, for him I take care to crush them a bit smaller. When they float on the surface he immediately goes up, unlike he did before, and tries biting at them.

However I have noticed that he often misses.

Keeping my eye on a flake I will see him try to take a bit at them but the flake will just bob around and away.

He is able to go after those inbetween pieces, small enough to get in his mouth, but large enough to see.

So I am still unsure about precisely what his issue is. At the moment I am starting to believe that perhaps it is a genetic defect on his face, and perhaps he was just weak before because he couldnt compete for food- and now without tankmakes he can feed, and has slowly gained strength back.

That however, could also be because whatever illness or parasite is healing, and he has more appetite.
 

PascalKrypt

Member
Thanks for the update. I guess it still isn't clear though I find it a good sign that he is still doing relatively okay.
 
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Meldyran

Member
Hello guys, I wanted to give another update on this guy. I have seen a marked improvement with him and I am now considering adding him with the rest.

What I suspect the problem to have been is a facial deformity making it harder for him to eat. Which has left him to be outcompeted for food. I spsect his back wasn't bent, more so that his stomach was caved in because he was underfed. As you guys can appreciate in some of the photos his face looks a bit flat and his mouth a bit hight.

It is difficult taking a good picture but I will also attach the befor s I posted earlier.

I am still open to suggestions on what the issue is/was here, so please feel free to chime in with your own ideas
After (click and zoom) I'm a bad photographer
IMG_20191007_010435.jpg MVIMG_20191007_010530.jpg

Before
MVIMG_20190913_171331.jpg
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Meldyran said:
Hello guys, I wanted to give another update on this guy. I have seen a marked improvement with him and I am now considering adding him with the rest.

What I suspect the problem to have been is a facial deformity making it harder for him to eat. Which has left him to be outcompeted for food. I spsect his back wasn't bent, more so that his stomach was caved in because he was underfed. As you guys can appreciate in some of the photos his face looks a bit flat and his mouth a bit hight.

It is difficult taking a good picture but I will also attach the befor s I posted earlier.

I am still open to suggestions on what the issue is/was here, so please feel free to chime in with your own ideas
After (click and zoom) I'm a bad photographer
IMG_20191007_010435.jpg MVIMG_20191007_010530.jpg

Before
MVIMG_20190913_171331.jpg
Well done !!!
 
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