Could This Cpd Be Sick?

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Meldyran

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I got 3 CPDs about a week and a half ago that I have been keeping in my 3 gallon to quarantine. I was thinking of adding them into my 10 gallon, but Im reconsidering a bit. since I got them one of the three has looked a bit off to me. Innitially I thought maybe it was some kind of genetic issue that perhaps gave him a slightly bent back, but looking at him/her im considering if its more that his stomach is sunken.

Could this be parasites, or some other illness? He is slightly smaller than the other two and Ive always noticed him being slightly more passive/lethargic.

Parameters

Tank Cycled before adding fish
Use Liquid Solutions to test Water
PH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
AKH: 9
GH/KH: 161.1

Here are some more pics I've also noticed that it's back fin does not open up as much as stays pretty straight
 

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PascalKrypt

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I have seen CPDs in an LFS that looked just like this, except it was some 5-6 out of a school of 20 or so. When I asked an employee about it, he told me that they saw it more often and it had to do with a developmental issue, as in they are not fed correctly (he didn't say a lack of food in general or a lack of quality/right type) during the early fry stages and end up like that - this is a shop where they usually know what they are talking about but I did not know that individual employee all that well. To be honest, I was not completely convinced. Curious to hear if anyone else has seen something like this and knows more, I'll keep an eye on this thread.
At the very least I would keep the three of them quarantined for 4-6 weeks and see if it spreads to the other two. If they are fine after 6 weeks it is probably okay (unless someone after me identifies a specific issue, that is)
 

Jimmie93

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In that second to last picture his face looks a bit messed up maybe the bigger fish is messing with him and stressing it out? You could separate the smaller one and see if he starts to feed better/improve if you have a extra tank or tub.
 

H Farnsworth

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Clamped fins is a common sign of stress but I know nothing about this fish specifically.
 
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Meldyran

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H Farnsworth said:
Clamped fins is a common sign of stress but I know nothing about this fish specifically.
It is possible that because ive been quarantining them for some time now in this relatively small set up that they may not be doing as good and may be stressed. But I recall feeling that I thought he looked a bit off since i got it. But it hasnt been until now when I considered adding them that I really took a look at him and started thinking about it.

PascalKrypt said:
I have seen CPDs in an LFS that looked just like this, except it was some 5-6 out of a school of 20 or so. When I asked an employee about it, he told me that they saw it more often and it had to do with a developmental issue, as in they are not fed correctly (he didn't say a lack of food in general or a lack of quality/right type) during the early fry stages and end up like that - this is a shop where they usually know what they are talking about but I did not know that individual employee all that well. To be honest, I was not completely convinced. Curious to hear if anyone else has seen something like this and knows more, I'll keep an eye on this thread.
At the very least I would keep the three of them quarantined for 4-6 weeks and see if it spreads to the other two. If they are fine after 6 weeks it is probably okay (unless someone after me identifies a specific issue, that is)
Thank you for your response this is actually kind of helpful. the store I got them from had a large school of about 50 and I recall noticing at least one that looked off like this guy. So perhaps it is a genetic defect that is being passed on and slowly weakening the gene pool in this species. Obviously this is just conjecture.

if you know anyone else who may be interested or may know, please feel free to tag them to this tread.
 

Rye3434

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I have cpds and have lost at least 3 of them to this. They got backs that looked bent and then eventually just passed.
 
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Meldyran

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Rye3434 said:
I have cpds and have lost at least 3 of them to this. They got backs that looked bent and then eventually just passed.
Do you recall them always being like this, or did you see it develop over time?
Did it spread to others, or is it only select individuals that have it?
 

SM1199

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Most importantly: is he eating? All my cpds looked pretty underweight with sunken in bellies when I got them but fattened right up in a few days. I find that their tiny mouths need equally tiny food. At first, they even had trouble eating the micropellets, so I had to crush those up.
 
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Meldyran

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SM1199 said:
Most importantly: is he eating? All my cpds looked pretty underweight with sunken in bellies when I got them but fattened right up in a few days. I find that their tiny mouths need equally tiny food. At first, they even had trouble eating the micropellets, so I had to crush those up.
Yeah one thing I was considering was that it may have a sunken belly that is making it's back look more bent than it is.

It is eating. i feed these three pumps hat I feed my other nin, the Betta min flakes.

I'll watch them clos ly again to make sure it's eating as much as the other two. I did notic on my last feeding that the bellies of one of them seemed Fuller so they may be out competing him for food.

Something that occurred to me to is that his head looks a bid different than the others. He may just still be young, but looking at his profile the ridge between his eyes seems lower and shorter than the others.
 

Rye3434

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Meldyran said:
Do you recall them always being like this, or did you see it develop over time?
Did it spread to others, or is it only select individuals that have it?
I've only seen it with a select few, it appeared suddenly.
 
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Meldyran

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SM1199 said:
Most importantly: is he eating? All my cpds looked pretty underweight with sunken in bellies when I got them but fattened right up in a few days. I find that their tiny mouths need equally tiny food. At first, they even had trouble eating the micropellets, so I had to crush those up.
I ve been feeding the thre eof them now and watching the closely. It does seem like he is not eating. He swims up to the food quickly, reflecibly, but he doesnt bite it. He will do this to every other flake, and just look at it.

Anyone have any thoghts?
 

SM1199

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Meldyran said:
I ve been feeding the thre eof them now and watching the closely. It does seem like he is not eating. He swims up to the food quickly, reflecibly, but he doesnt bite it. He will do this to every other flake, and just look at it.

Anyone have any thoghts?
This is what I think it might be. He may indeed have a slightly deformed face, and that's stopping him from eating properly. It might be a deformity due to inbreeding, unfortunately, which is why some of them might show up in a batch here and there but the others seem unaffected. I don't think his sunken belly is due to anything contagious, or else I would definitely expect the other two to be showing symptoms by now. At this point, not being able to eat is probably starting to discourage him from trying too hard. That coupled with weakness from not getting proper nutrition.

I would crush up some of the food into a powder as if you're feeding fry and see if he has an easier time eating that.
 
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Meldyran

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SM1199 said:
This is what I think it might be. He may indeed have a slightly deformed face, and that's stopping him from eating properly. It might be a deformity due to inbreeding, unfortunately, which is why some of them might show up in a batch here and there but the others seem unaffected. I don't think his sunken belly is due to anything contagious, or else I would definitely expect the other two to be showing symptoms by now. At this point, not being able to eat is probably starting to discourage him from trying too hard. That coupled with weakness from not getting proper nutrition.

I would crush up some of the food into a powder as if you're feeding fry and see if he has an easier time eating that.
Thank you this is a good idea.

I'm considering the other two in his set up also, and weather or not I should keep them in there, or separate him from the other too so I can fascillitate feeding while at the same time making sure i dont overfeed the others.
 
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Coradee

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Hi, there does seem to be a problem with Cpd’s, whether it’s genetics, overbreeding or disease I don’t know but I lost quite a few of mine in a similar way.
I believe DoubleDutch has also experienced similar issues with them.
 
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Meldyran

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Coradee said:
Hi, there does seem to be a problem with Cpd’s, whether it’s genetics, overbreeding or disease I don’t know but I lost quite a few of mine in a similar way.
I believe DoubleDutch has also experienced similar issues with them.
Thank you for your tag and your reply.

It makes me curious though, because this CPD is relatively mature. So whatever diet or care he was receiving before I brough him home must have been adequate for him to survive this long - if in fact it is genetics.

or perhaps it could be a genetic disease that only appears in their last stage of development. Otherwise I wonder if anyone has been able to determine if its a contagious disease or not.
 

coralbandit

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The CPDs are coming infected with wasting disease.
It is a protozoa infection cured with flubendazole .Fenbebdazole works only if fish is eating and mixed with food.
The flubendazole is absorbed ..
Fenbendazole. I do have Fenbendazole 10%. It works for a number of things but it is not absorbed through their skin or gills. It must be eaten to be effective. Pricing is the same as Flubendazole below.


Flubendazole 10 % powder
Postage is to increase in 2016 soon.

Best for eliminating Hydra. Treats protozoa wasting disease, serious treatment for Velvet, enternal and external parasites, 1/4 teaspoon of 10 % powder treats about 20 gallons of water for most parasitic Protozoa. Eliminate Carbon filtration during treatment. Change most of the water after 10 days. Will not harm plants, Prolonged use will kill most snails. .......

Taken from ;

Levamisole, Flubendazole & other chemicals for the aquarium
 

tjander

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Shouldn’t CPD be kept in groups of 6 or more. I seem to remember reading that in small numbers they get stressed and potentially sick.
 

WTFish?

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I can’t say if it’s the exact same thing mine had but it looks very similar. I had one die, then 2 more came down with it so I quarantined them and used api fungus cure, 2 doses. They came back perfectly normal after a few weeks. Still going strong almost a year later. Obviously if it’s genetics it won’t help but it really does look similar to me.
I need to add that for the first one, I tried general cure and then fenbendazole with kanaplex before she died.
 

DoubleDutch

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Coradee said:
Hi, there does seem to be a problem with Cpd’s, whether it’s genetics, overbreeding or disease I don’t know but I lost quite a few of mine in a similar way.
I believe DoubleDutch has also experienced similar issues with them.
Yeah mine had exactly what WTFish mentioned and looked like this..

I thought it might be a viral issue (like DGD) but coralbandit could definitely be right though mine were healthy at the start.

Of topic : Again I want to ask the mods if it is an idea to make a subforum for species-specific disease.

CPD's
DGD
Neons with with mouth ulcers
Columnaris in neons
Etc..

A lot of us have allready answered hundreds of threads with exactly the same issues. Noticing I leave it nowadays.
 
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Meldyran

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Thanks Guys, Ill keep the quaratined for a bit longer and treat them with ParaGuard to eliminate the possibility of wasting disease
- never really trated fish before, will Paraguard be enough to eliminate most possibilities of infection?
 
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