Cory catfish keep dying Help 

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Burtle

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I recently lost one of my juliicory catfish a few weeks ago and posted about it here,

Help - Cory catfish has strange growth, need help Identifying - Corydoras 426492
I treated with general cure and Fruan-2 for a week.
Some backstory, I have a 20 gallon that originally had gravel in it. It has a kix of live and fake plants and been set up for a year, I do weekly water changes. I had 3 julii cory catfish and two gouramis. I lost one and then noticed that the rest had there whiskers dissapered and mouths peeling. I replaced to a sand substrate. I added 1 more julli, 3 pandas and 5 danio pearls. I lost another cory catfish which I describe in the previous post. I gave the danios away and then i noticed that my last orginal cory has some strange things on it. The side fins seemed way to thin, like litte sticks, and the back fin was greatly reduced. I found it dead with a red mark under it.
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I don't know what is happening to my fish or if it would spread. Any help will be much appreciated.
 

vyrille

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Hello, I checked your previous thread, it seems to me that particular cory suffered from hemorrhagic septicaemia. Are the other fish showing similar signs?
 

DoubleDutch

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How is the filtrage and waterflow?
What do you feed ?
What is the temp ?
 
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DoubleDutch said:
How is the filtrage and waterflow?
What do you feed ?
What is the temp ?
I use a filter meant for a 20 gallok and I also include an air pump.
Temp is reading around 74 on the far side
The corys are fed Algea Wafers and bottom feeder Shrimp Pellets
 
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vyrille said:
Hello, I checked your previous thread, it seems to me that particular cory suffered from hemorrhagic septicaemia. Are the other fish showing similar signs?
My corys have been less active, I remember when I first got the julli they where swimming around the tank alot. Now they just chill at the surface, my gouramis made bubble nest last week but now they stopped
 

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Burtle said:
My corys have been less active, I remember when I first got the julli they where swimming around the tank alot. Now they just chill at the surface, my gouramis made bubble nest last week but now they stopped
Depending on the pathogen, if it is indeed hemorrhagic septicaemia, it may or may not spread. If all the other fish in the tank are somehow weakened, the likelihood of it being spread increases. Did you quarantine these fish? Did you get them all from the same source? Unlike bettas, i do not believe cories are not as intolerant of rough surfaces, even substrate, and the barbel erosion speaks more of their general health/genetics than type of substrate. What are your water parameters again? How are your fish today?
 
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My ph is at 8.3 (Did a waterchange after reading)
Ammonia and NO3 is at 0
My fish seem ok at the moment, gouramis have been attacking each other so I added more hiding places and the corys are still chilling at the bottom. The only julli cory I have has short barbels. When i got the new fish I did not quarantine them (I learned I should since the plants had snails on them.) All the new fish came from.the same source. I don't believe the water was bad when I first got my orignal corys. I truly think it was the gravel substrate since there skin was peeling off, and was more noticable especially when I watched them eat. They have a sand substrate now. Any recommendations on how I should treat this?
 

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Burtle said:
I use a filter meant for a 20 gallok and I also include an air pump.
Temp is reading around 74 on the far side
The corys are fed Algea Wafers and bottom feeder Shrimp Pellets
Skip algaewafers and add something meaty like brineshrimp (they are on the carnivorious side of the spectrum).

I'd deworm the fish as well.
 

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First, always test the water! Go to PetSmart with a sample of your water and they will test it for free, giving you an API test strip. Then decode it. Your water parameters will be very useful in this situation.

Oh my! An 8 PH! That’s way too high! Add vinegar, 1ML per gallon. No more than 1 ML! Take action ASAP! That is very dangerous, especially since Cories need a LOW PH.
 

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christiangrenier said:
First, always test the water! Go to PetSmart with a sample of your water and they will test it for free, giving you an API test strip. Then decode it. Your water parameters will be very useful in this situation.

Oh my! An 8 PH! That’s way too high! Add vinegar, 1ML per gallon. No more than 1 ML! Take action ASAP! That is very dangerous, especially since Cories need a LOW PH.
Stability is more important. In most fish anyway. I keep plenty of cories and the lowest i can keep my pH in their tank is 7.6. I have pH 8 in my other tanks.

OP you didnt give a test for your nitrites. What are the readings on those?
 

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christiangrenier said:
First, always test the water! Go to PetSmart with a sample of your water and they will test it for free, giving you an API test strip. Then decode it. Your water parameters will be very useful in this situation.

Oh my! An 8 PH! That’s way too high! Add vinegar, 1ML per gallon. No more than 1 ML! Take action ASAP! That is very dangerous, especially since Cories need a LOW PH.
If OP would do this I think (s)he can say
goodbye to all her / his fish.
 

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christiangrenier said:
First, always test the water! Go to PetSmart with a sample of your water and they will test it for free, giving you an API test strip. Then decode it. Your water parameters will be very useful in this situation

Oh my! An 8 PH! That’s way too high! Add vinegar, 1ML per gallon. No more than 1 ML! Take action ASAP! That is very dangerous, especially since Cories need a LOW PH.
OP did mention that his/her ammonia and nitrates are zero, but didn't provide a nitrite reading (though in the other thread s/he did mention a 0 nitrite as well). The zero nitrates is suspicious for possible cycling issues, but the said tank has been running for at least a month now according to OP.

As for pH 8 being too high, i would respectfully disagree, my cories are in at pH 7.8-8.2 water and they do fine. Acidophilic fish will adapt just fine to basic water, but not vice versa. With this in mind, adding vinegar will not be in the op and the fish's best interests - one, for bringing pH down rapidly (and depending on kH, may swing up again, you definitely don't want this to happen!) and two, for upsetting the presumably basic water-adapted fish.

Burtle said:
My ph is at 8.3 (Did a waterchange after reading)
Ammonia and NO3 is at 0
My fish seem ok at the moment, gouramis have been attacking each other so I added more hiding places and the corys are still chilling at the bottom. The only julli cory I have has short barbels. When i got the new fish I did not quarantine them (I learned I should since the plants had snails on them.) All the new fish came from.the same source. I don't believe the water was bad when I first got my orignal corys. I truly think it was the gravel substrate since there skin was peeling off, and was more noticable especially when I watched them eat. They have a sand substrate now. Any recommendations on how I should treat this?
As i understood it, none of your other cories have eroded barbels, and all the other fish are acting fine? If so, then i would suggest don't treat and observe - you probably got unlucky with your batch of juliis. However, keep a bottle of methylene blue handy just in case. And probably quarantine the subsequent fish that you get. I like to say: You don't need to quarantine...until you do.
 

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vyrille said:
OP did mention that his/her ammonia and nitrates are zero, but didn't provide a nitrite reading (though in the other thread s/he did mention a 0 nitrite as well). The zero nitrates is suspicious for possible cycling issues, but the said tank has been running for at least a month now according to OP.

As for pH 8 being too high, i would respectfully disagree, my cories are in at pH 7.8-8.2 water and they do fine. Acidophilic fish will adapt just fine to basic water, but not vice versa. With this in mind, adding vinegar will not be in the op and the fish's best interests - one, for bringing pH down rapidly (and depending on kH, may swing up again, you definitely don't want this to happen!) and two, for upsetting the presumably basic water-adapted fish.


As i understood it, none of your other cories have eroded barbels, and all the other fish are acting fine? If so, then i would suggest don't treat and observe - you probably got unlucky with your batch of juliis. However, keep a bottle of methylene blue handy just in case. And probably quarantine the subsequent fish that you get. I like to say: You don't need to quarantine...until you do.
I expect the result of nitrates is actually nitirites. But you could be right.

High Ph can allow certain bacteria to thrive that cause this barbel-erosion. Filtrage, substrate (leaflitter) and waterflow can make a difference.
 

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DoubleDutch said:
I expect the result of nitrates is actually nitirites. But you could be right.

High Ph can allow certain bacteria to thrive that cause this barbel-erosion. Filtrage, substrate (leaflitter) and waterflow can make a difference.
Genuinely curious, which bacteria are these? Most pathogenic bacteria i know will thrive in a much wider pH range than fish can survive in, a pH of 6 or 7 or 8 would not make a difference for these.
 

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vyrille said:
Genuinely curious, which bacteria are these? Most pathogenic bacteria i know will thrive in a much wider pH range than fish can survive in, a pH of 6 or 7 or 8 would not make a difference for these.
I have not specific species Vyrille.
I got this info recent from a Scottish Cory-guru. The tiny microscopic wounds that occure during scavaging through the sand and encountering tiny traces of ammonia and nitrites let these bacteria enter and infect the tissue.

This made sense to me having read several threads about issues alike on minerals leaking substrate like Argonite and high PH water. I noticed adding leaflitter can make a difference.

BTW One sees the same thing with other fish (wildcaught cardinals for instance, Chocolate gouramis, Liquirice Gouramis, etc etc...)
 

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DoubleDutch said:
I have not specific species Vyrille.
I got this info recent from a Scottish Cory-guru. The tiny microscopic wounds that occure during scavaging through the sand and encountering tiny traces of ammonia and nitrites let these bacteria enter and infect the tissue.

This made sense to me having read several threads about issues alike on minerals leaking substrate like Argonite and high PH water. I noticed adding leaflitter can make a difference.

BTW One sees the same thing with other fish (wildcaught cardinals for instance, Chocolate gouramis, Liquirice Gouramis, etc etc...)
Hmm. I have a different hypothesis in that regard. Yes, i agree that the microabrasions from constant friction with substrate can and do cause infections (this is one of the primary pathogenesis of abscesses in humans), and eventually lead to barbel erosion in cories. However i do not believe the pH has anything to do with it. The addition of leaf litter is beneficial by several means - not by changing the pH - but firstly, by adding smooth surfaces on which cories can spend time on without inducing more microabrasions from the gravel substrate, allowing their tiny wounds to heal up. I believe this is how cories are able to forage on any substrate in the wild: they can go among rough gravel and alternately spend time on smooth mud to 'heal up'. Secondly, the leaves release tannins, which shouldn't be taken as an antibiotic treatment of sorts, but rather a two-fold prevention: one is by inhibiting bacterial bio-load, and two is by darkening the water, making fish feel more at ease, boosting their immune systems.

As for wild-caught fish, care must be taken to adopt the paramaters of the water they were taken from, so in the case of liquorice and chocolate gourami, acidic water. They will not fare as well, and in fact may not survive long, in basic water. However most cories (in my area at least) are farm bred and raised in the higher-neutral to basic water, and so adapt fine to higher pH. Wild-caught cories do not have this capacity. That's my take on it anyway.
 

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vyrille said:
Hmm. I have a different hypothesis in that regard. Yes, i agree that the microabrasions from constant friction with substrate can and do cause infections (this is one of the primary pathogenesis of abscesses in humans), and eventually lead to barbel erosion in cories. However i do not believe the pH has anything to do with it. The addition of leaf litter is beneficial by several means - not by changing the pH - but firstly, by adding smooth surfaces on which cories can spend time on without inducing more microabrasions from the gravel substrate, allowing their tiny wounds to heal up. I believe this is how cories are able to forage on any substrate in the wild: they can go among rough gravel and alternately spend time on smooth mud to 'heal up'. Secondly, the leaves release tannins, which shouldn't be taken as an antibiotic treatment of sorts, but rather a two-fold prevention: one is by inhibiting bacterial bio-load, and two is by darkening the water, making fish feel more at ease, boosting their immune systems.

As for wild-caught fish, care must be taken to adopt the paramaters of the water they were taken from, so in the case of liquorice and chocolate gourami, acidic water. They will not fare as well, and in fact may not survive long, in basic water. However most cories (in my area at least) are farm bred and raised in the higher-neutral to basic water, and so adapt fine to higher pH. Wild-caught cories do not have this capacity. That's my take on it anyway.
To my knowledge acidic water (lower Ph) reduces bacterial growth.
Not an aquatic topic :

Lesson 4b - A is for Acidity
 

vyrille

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DoubleDutch said:
To my knowledge acidic water (lower Ph) reduces bacterial growth.
Not an aquatic topic :

Lesson 4b - A is for Acidity
Hmm. According to that link:
"Bacteria grow best in an environment that is neutral or slightly acidic."
and
"Microorganisms thrive in a pH range between 6.6 and 7.5."
If you mean by acidic, anything below pH 4, then yes, most aquatic pathogens (aeromonas, pseudomonas, staphylococci, streptococci, campylobacter, acinetobacter, and so on) won't survive. But then, i doubt much else you want to keep will, anyway.
 

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vyrille said:
Hmm. According to that link:
"Bacteria grow best in an environment that is neutral or slightly acidic."
and
"Microorganisms thrive in a pH range between 6.6 and 7.5."
If you mean by acidic, anything below pH 4, then yes, most aquatic pathogens (aeromonas, pseudomonas, staphylococci, streptococci, campylobacter, acinetobacter, and so on) won't survive. But then, i doubt much else you want to keep will, anyway.
Hahahaha not the best link.

Gonna try to find some other info.

As said I got the barbelloss info from a Cory-specialist on another forum and I really thought it made sense. Especially combined with the experiences from hundreds of threads as mentioned.

I'll be back.
 

christiangrenier

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vyrille said:
OP did mention that his/her ammonia and nitrates are zero, but didn't provide a nitrite reading (though in the other thread s/he did mention a 0 nitrite as well). The zero nitrates is suspicious for possible cycling issues, but the said tank has been running for at least a month now according to OP.

As for pH 8 being too high, i would respectfully disagree, my cories are in at pH 7.8-8.2 water and they do fine. Acidophilic fish will adapt just fine to basic water, but not vice versa. With this in mind, adding vinegar will not be in the op and the fish's best interests - one, for bringing pH down rapidly (and depending on kH, may swing up again, you definitely don't want this to happen!) and two, for upsetting the presumably basic water-adapted fish.


As i understood it, none of your other cories have eroded barbels, and all the other fish are acting fine? If so, then i would suggest don't treat and observe - you probably got unlucky with your batch of juliis. However, keep a bottle of methylene blue handy just in case. And probably quarantine the subsequent fish that you get. I like to say: You don't need to quarantine...until you do.
Yup. Certain fish can take different PH levels.. still seems high.
 
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