Considering Saltwater, any and all advice/wisdom requested.

Hey everyone, a short while ago I bought a 21 gallon tank for the condo my fiance and I will be moving into next month. I was originally considering a freshwater tank, but lately after visiting Big Al's Aquarium Services store I have started considering a saltwater tank but have no idea where to begin! ???

I've already decided that if I do go this way, I will be using live-rock.

She really likes Tangs and Clownfish, reading the profiles I can already tell that a Tang will be a no go, but Clownfish seem like they could be good for a tank this size. Any other species a beginner should consider? I also like the BenggaI Cardinal Fish and all of the Damselfish, which seem to be other possible choices after looking at the profiles. Would a 21 Gallon be okay for a few Blue or Green Chromis?

For water testing, I bought individual tests for my two bettas, but a Master Kit would probably be best for this project, wouldn't it? What other equipment/conditioners should I get? My tank kit came with an Aquaclear 30 filter, Aquaclear 30 heater, 2 fluorescent slots (Aqua-Glo and Sun-Glo bulbs included) and a few other knick-knacks not really needing mentioning.

Any and all advice is definitely going to be appreciated. Thanks a lot.

 

21 gallon tank - I have started considering a saltwater tank but have no idea where to begin! ???

I will be using live-rock.

She really likes Tangs and Clownfish, reading the profiles I can already tell that a Tang will be a no go, but Clownfish seem like they could be good for a tank this size. Any other species a beginner should consider? I also like the BenggaI Cardinal Fish and all of the Damselfish, which seem to be other possible choices after looking at the profiles. Would a 21 Gallon be okay for a few Blue or Green Chromis?

For water testing, I bought individual tests for my two bettas, but a Master Kit would probably be best for this project, wouldn't it? What other equipment/conditioners should I get? My tank kit came with an Aquaclear 30 filter, Aquaclear 30 heater, 2 fluorescent slots (Aqua-Glo and Sun-Glo bulbs included) and a few other knick-knacks not really needing mentioning.

Any and all advice is definitely going to be appreciated. Thanks a lot.

You've come to the right place !!
1) Say no to Tangs, the tanks size is too small. IMO say no to damsels also, very territorial and will bullies other tank mate if introduced first into a new tank setup. Say yes to a clown fish or BenggaI Cardinals or Blue or Green Chromis, these are great fish for the beginner
2) Test kits to start with, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate a must during cycling. Then add Alkalinity, pH, Calcium and Magnesium later on if you decide on buying corals.
3) The Aquaclear 30 filter is good for running carbon only. (I'm a big carbon fan ;D , for water clarity). Saltwater filtration is very simple, Live rock, deep sand bed and water flow (powerheads). That's it ! Though IMO protein skimming is a big bonus too !! A protein skimmer can be added after your tank cycles (2-10 weeks). I used BIO-Spira for saltwater tanks to speed my tank cycling.
4) Lighting depends on what you want in your tank. The bulbs you have are general purpose lighting, ideal for fish only tanks, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
5) Be patience ... Go slow ... !

 

Yeah, that's the advice I can offer - go very very slowly. And read about everything!

 

Can you use the same rule of thumb for amount of fish in a tank that freshwater uses? Or should I give them more room?

I highly doubt I will get into coral... for now. So will ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests be okay? Can I run foam in my Aquaclear if I so chose, or is it really not necessary?

 

Can you use the same rule of thumb for amount of fish in a tank that freshwater uses? Or should I give them more room?

I highly doubt I will get into coral... for now. So will ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests be okay? Can I run foam in my Aquaclear if I so chose, or is it really not necessary?

Yes you can if this will be fish only. Remember to research each fish's max adult size and eating habits before you buy. Also those test kits will be fine. As for the foam and sponges. You can use them if you like, they just need to be changed every 3 or 4 day or your tank will build up excess nitrates. If your not going to have very much live rock in the tank, I would leave the sponges in and replace the carbon and the floss once a week.

 

Ahh I see, so with live-rock I don't need the extra filtration beyond carbon. I had been planning on going live-rock route so would I still be able to get a Clownfish and a Cardinal Fish? Or a few chromis?

Now that I think about it, would I even need external filtration with liverock? If I don't, what kind of effect will that have on the tank?

 

Ahh I see, so with live-rock I don't need the extra filtration beyond carbon. I had been planning on going live-rock route so would I still be able to get a Clownfish and a Cardinal Fish? Or a few chromis?

Now that I think about it, would I even need external filtration with liverock? If I don't, what kind of effect will that have on the tank?

That's correct (20-30 Lbs) Live rock, 4" DSB and (2) powerheads plus 10% water changes weekly. Run carbon when the water starts to look yellow. A Clownfish and a Cardinal Fish and few chromis would be fine.

 

I remember that a worker at the nearby fish store told me to never vacuum the sand in a saltwater tank, is he right about this?

Would I need a sump for this tank? Any brand-specific protein skimmers I should consider? Powerheads?

 

Well I wouldn't say never, though you should allow the tanks water flow keep debris suppended in the water column until it is skimmed out. Also can get a few sand sifting stars or Nassarius snails to keep the sand clean. As for a skimmer, any small skimmer rated up to 75 gallon should be more then enough (stay away from SeaClone and Prizm). A sump for your tank isn't necessary, but they're real nice to have ;D . 10 gallon on up. Powerheads, Maxi-Jet's are real popular. Maybe two Maxi-Jet 600's should do. I like Rio's, Maxi-Jet and my favorite is Koralia. Hope this helps !

 

I don't have any external filtration with my live rock - I just have 2 powerheads with a carbon filter and a floss filter. It was scary taking that first step without a canister filter but it works fine! My AquaC protein skimmer does the job very well!

 

hI guys also new hear, when I first start the tank going IE water live rock for circling when should I start the protein skimmer? straight away or later on?

 

Ahh I see, so with live-rock I don't need the extra filtration beyond carbon.  I had been planning on going live-rock route so would I still be able to get a Clownfish and a Cardinal Fish?  Or a few chromis?

Now that I think about it, would I even need external filtration with liverock?  If I don't, what kind of effect will that have on the tank?

That's correct (20-30 Lbs) Live rock, 4" DSB and (2) powerheads plus 10% water changes weekly. Run carbon when the water starts to look yellow. A Clownfish and a Cardinal Fish and few chromis would be fine.

I would leave out the DSB, a 21 gallont tank isn't that tall and the 4" will take up space, not look that great and from what I've read DSB's aren't that great and tend to not work after awhile. You could use it in a sump if you wanted. Just my thought.

 

I want to start my first salt water tank. I plan on converting one of my freshwater 10 gallons to saltwater, I've heard that it is very difficult to keep saltwater aquariums under 25~ gallons. I want to do a FOWLR tank. I want to do this as cheap as it can be done right. What do I need to get to switch to saltwater? And are there any fish that I could do in a 10? Are fluorescent lights (single T5) sufficient for live rock?

I plan on using live sand, unless crushed coral is better.

How many gph do I want from my power heads?

 

Hi,
I suggest reading the stickies in the Saltwater beginner's forum, many of your questions will be answered

 

Yeah I've been reading those and am still sorta confused.

 

I have also begun saltwater in a 10 gallon tank, and it has been a challenge, but a good challenge that I am mostly enjoying.

You'll need live rock, sand, and a salt mix to make your aquarium marine. Live rock is preferred over live sand; dry sand is cheaper and will colonize quickly from the live rock. Since you're not attempting corals, you really don't need anything fancy. In a 10g, you can actually forego a filter entirely if you do your weekly water changes, since your live rock does all of your biological filtration, but I use one for mechanical filtration.

A 10 gallon tank will be focused on invertebrates - which you will become cool with, because marine inverts are more sociable than most marine fish. Something small like a neon goby (or two, if you get a pair!) will work, or something stationary like a firefish. Saltwater tanks are all about slowly establishing a stable ecosystem, so you've got plenty of time between conceiving the idea of a tank to putting fish in it.

The rock itself doesn't have any specific light requirements, so you're fine on that front.

Flow also less essential without corals - almost any powerhead will be enough to keep detritus and other nasties suspended so they can be filtered out in this size of a tank. I personally just bought one that was 240gph.

The saltwater forum here is slow to respond, and in my experience, forums elsewhere don't have that lovey community feel this one does, so definitely take your time reading the stickies, the articles, posts by other members, and basically whatever you can get your hands on while you wait for responses to your specific questions.

 

Thanks I already have a bag of marine salt. It seems like all I need is power heads, live rock, and dry sand. So you think I could skip over a protein skimmer?

Is to high gph bad in a tank this size since online the only ones in the style I like are at least 530 gph.

 

Thanks I already have a bag of marine salt. It seems like all I need is power heads, live rock, and dry sand. So you think I could skip over a protein skimmer?

Dry sand? do you mean live sand?

and yes you could do a regular weekly water change in place of the skimmer.

 

Dry sand? do you mean live sand?

and yes you could do a regular weekly water change in place of the skimmer.

No. According to the other guy you can get dead/dry sand and have it colonized by live rock, similar to how you can turn dry rock into live rock.

 

No. According to the other guy you can get dead/dry sand and have it colonized by live rock, similar to how you can turn dry rock into live rock.

Oh you're gonna go for that method? Ok. That's gonna take time but it sure is cheap.

 

It really depends on the price difference when I go to buy it.

 

Mhm, you can always get a protein skimmer later if you find it's something you want.

A powerhead that's too strong might blow around your sand or make it hard for little fishies to swim. You should be able to point your powerhead towards a wall or towards the top of the tank to spread the flow around if you have trouble with it.

In my experience, colonizing sand is way faster than curing dry rock to become live, so it doesn't seem like a big deal, but if live sand fits in your budget then by all means go for it.

 

I'll just have to see how much the sand is once I combine my fresh water and free up the other tank.

 

I have been moving my freshwater stock around an realized that I can combine my 55 and 29. Possibly freeing up the 29 gallon for my first saltwater tank that I plan on starting after Christmas. This give me more options and stability then the 10 gallon. Still planning on live rock and sand. We have a nice new saltwater specialty store in town that I would like to check out. What're things to look at?

 

Hi, a 29G is a much better option if you can do it. It'll be more stable.

Live Sand, IMHO is a waste of money. There's a lot of debate in the reefing community about live sand, with the primary argument relating to how 'live' it is by the time you get it. For my reef, I used CaribSea Aragamax. Reason being it also acts as a bit of a buffer for alkalinity. As mentioned, sand will quickly colonise. I'd go for a basic marine sand, and use the money saved on other things.

When setting up your tank, it's highly recommended to place the first layer of rock BEFORE adding the sand. This will ensure the rock is on a stable surface, and won't be disrupted if something tries to bury under it (causing an avalanche in the tank).

Powerheads, for a FOWLR, aI'm for around 10x turnover. In a 29G, look to use 2 x 150GPH powerheads, and point them toward each other at opposite ends of the tank. IMO, 2 are better than 1 as it creates more turbulence and flow in the tank.

The new Saltwater store, it's hard to say exactly what to look out for. The tanks should obviously be clean, and the stock looking healthy. Have a good look around at what they stock, what brands they carry. IMO, at a minimum, they'll stock quality brands such as Seachem/Aquavitro, Red Sea, Tunze, Eheim. They probably won't stock high end stuff (like Deltec, Bubble Magus etc), but not many do.

It's more about assessing their knowledge of setups, and their approach to the hobby. They should be familiar with what's going on in the hobby. There's new stuff happening all the time, and they should have setups incorporating new stuff. What is their coral holding tank like? Do they have auto-dosing setup, what type of lights are they using? What filtration are they running? Do they offer natural sea water, RODI.

It's hard to say, but you should get a general 'feel' for the place, and whether they know what they're doing.

 

Would 530 or 800 gph be to much? I'm having trouble finding low power power heads on eBay.

 

Would 530 or 800 gph be to much?

Not really. Reef tanks run at around 30x turnover. Maybe a little over-kill for a FOWLR, where you won't have anything that "needs" high flow. But that doesn't mean you can't use them.

I'm having trouble finding low power power heads on eBay.

I'd try other places

marinedepot.com and bulkreefsupply.com are just two that come to mind, but there's plenty of online places in the States.

Hydor and Maxi-Jet do smaller powerheads, as do many other brands.

 

Not really. Reef tanks run at around 30x turnover. Maybe a little over-kill for a FOWLR, where you won't have anything that "needs" high flow. But that doesn't mean you can't use them.


I'd try other places

marinedepot.com and bulkreefsupply.com are just two that come to mind, but there's plenty of online places in the States.

Hydor and Maxi-Jet do smaller powerheads, as do many other brands.

What is a reasonable price for powerless like that? Since I can get two 530s for 15$ on eBay.

 

And for a 29 gallon would I need a protein skimmer?

 

What is a reasonable price for powerless like that? Since I can get two 530s for 15$ on eBay.

No idea sorry. I live in Australia. Prices here are higher than the US.

 

What is a reasonable price for powerless like that? Since I can get two 530s for 15$ on eBay.

Seems like a great price. Go for it. Congrats on the 29 gallon btw.

 

Seems like a great price. Go for it. Congrats on the 29 gallon btw.

I've had it a while I just am restocking my 55 and thought that the fish in my 29 would go well in the 55 gallon planted community.

 

I would look into using that 10 Gal. as a refugium, BTW. You can get a lot of filtration out of a deep sand bed in a dedicated refugium out of sight without taking up too much tank space in the 29 Gal., plus for maintaining chemistry levels you will add a few gallons to total tank size.

 

I would look into using that 10 Gal. as a refugium, BTW. You can get a lot of filtration out of a deep sand bed in a dedicated refugium out of sight without taking up too much tank space in the 29 Gal., plus for maintaining chemistry levels you will add a few gallons to total tank size.

Well it's half set up as a African Shellie tank... I thought about refugiums but the stand I have would make that hard.

 

I would look for smaller power heads, even if you cut down the output your still using more electric. Skip the skimmer for now you won't need it till the nitrates build up and water changes can bring it to good range. You do need a water test kit, if adding corals you need a more complex one. Its hard to go cheap with salt water, live rock is costly as are fish and equipment. Even the salt is expensive. Good luck.

 

Skip the skimmer for now you won't need it till the nitrates build up and water changes can bring it to good range.

I don't necessarily agree with this statement. The point of the skimmer is to remove DOCs so that nitrates don't build up in the first place.

 

Well I don't even have my live rock yet, but I am picking up a protein skimmer on Saturday.

 

As stated if you don't get a skimmer you could do a poor man's substitute of more frequent water changes. This isn't as good as a skimmer, as RyanR points out a skimmer prevents some nitrate from ever forming. it removes the base material before the cycle starts. by doing water changes you're being reactive, by using a skimmer you can be proactive.

I think it really comes down to what you plan on stocking. The lighter it's stocked the better if you don't want a skimmer IMO.
TT

PS HOw did your water end up testing?

And for a 29 gallon would I need a protein skimmer?

 

Well I found a really good deal on Craigslist, protein skimmer, 15lbs of live rock, a power head for 50$. So I'll be getting the skimmer. Haven't tested my TDS. Ended up buying saltwater. I'm looking for a RO unit.




I plan on what I think is a good stocking, not under stocked or over stocked. A fire fish or two, a pair of ocilaris clowns, and some sort of goby or blenny. Not sure what else I could do.

 

HI everyone! I'm an experienced keeper and have always wanted to start a saltwater tank. I have only kept freshwater, and basically know nothing about saltwater. Recently my 20 gallon tall has proven to be a mishap, and I was planning on redoing it as a lush planted tank, but I am considering possibly doing a saltwater tank. I would absolutely love one, but I am having reservations about it. Saltwater seems quite intimidating. After recently struggling with a planted 5 gallon tank and completely restarting (none of the stock died, just algae and plants were a mess), my upkeep confidence has been at an all time low.

My questions are:
Would a 20 tall be a relatively good size?
I've heard saltwater is very expensive, what kind of expenses are we looking at?
How is maintenance compared to freshwater? I am aware of having to maintain proper salt levels and as far as my impression goes, it's a bit less lenient. This is one of the most important questions because when I leave I have to teach my parents how to take care of the fish and I really don't want to overwhelm them.
What are main things that I would have to look out for?
What is the bare minimum equipment?