Confessions of a New Tank Beginner *UPDATED*

HI Folks,

I have been learning SO much since I started reading (obsessively, even!) these boards. Prior to this, I always assumed that you set a tank up, added some water, let it sit a couple of days and added your fish. Everyone was happy, life was beautiful, and so was your tank.

I had NO concept, whatsoever, of the Nitrogen Cycle or the fact it heavily influences the outcome of the tank and community of fish I would place in there.

So, today, I finally bought an API Master Test Kit. I was kind of nervous, because I probably should have done this from the beginning, and I was fearing the results!

My tank is officially on Day 9. Below is the transcript of the journal I've been keeping about its progress. Please don't flame me for the early introduction of fish, my LFS said it would be okay because they are all hardy! Now I'm trying to make things right!

Day 1: Set up my 10 Gallon Aquarium with an Aquaclear Power Filter, Heater (automatically keeps tank around 78 degrees) and used AquaPlus Tap Water Conditioner to reduce Chlorine and Chloramine. I also used Stress Zyme to add beneficial bacteria and speed up the process.

Day  4: Added fish (2) Female Lyretail Mollies, (1) Male Red Swordtail, (1) Female Mickey Mouse Platy

Day 6: Death of Female Mickey Mouse Platy. Added (1) Male Molly

Day 7: Added more Stress Zyme, per the directions on the bottle

Day 8: Added 2 Tablespoons of Aquarium Salt (per directions on the container) and introduced a small amount of Java Moss

Day 9: Tested water chemistry. Results below:


Temperature: Approx. 77 degrees (thermometer is on opposite side of tank from the heater)
pH: between 7.6 and 7.8 using the hi-range test. pH is 7.6 on the normal testing scale.
ammonia: 4 (WOW!)
nitrIte: 0.25
nitrAte: between 5.0 and 10.0

Now, I am assuming that the ammonia level is high because I am hopefully spiking in the cycle. Is day 9 too soon for this to happen if I used a product to hopefully speed up the process?

Also, if I perform a partial water change to reduce that level, do I have to add the entire dose of AquaPlus for 10 gallons, or just a reduced ammount corresponding to the amount of new water I add?

Any other insight for my water peramaters? The fish all seem to be doing well. They are eating and active and have lots of personality. The male Molly is relentlessly chasing the females!

Thank you ... I can't wait to learn more about this as I go through the process. Hopefully no irreversable harm has been done!

-UaL

EDIT: I will be testing the parameters again on Thursday. The API Kit recommends every other day testing for the majority of these tests.

 

Re: Confessions of a New Tank Beginner

Definitely do a water change to get those ammonia levels lower. Do maybe 20% and test tomorrow and if they are still high do another 20% until they get under control. And you only add enough of the AquaPlus to cover the amount of water you are adding not enough for the whole tank as the rest of the tank is already treated. Other then that you've already gotten nitrites, so that's a very good sign! Keep up the good work and you've be done in no time.

 

Re: Confessions of a New Tank Beginner

Definitely do a water change to get those ammonia levels lower. Do maybe 20% and test tomorrow and if they are still high do another 20% until they get under control. And you only add enough of the AquaPlus to cover the amount of water you are adding not enough for the whole tank as the rest of the tank is already treated. Other then that you've already gotten nitrites, so that's a very good sign! Keep up the good work and you've be done in no time.

Thanks for the reply! What would be an acceptable level at this point in time for the ammonia levels to be at? I know at the end of the cycle I want them to be 0. But for now, how low should I aI'm for getting it? Thanks!

 

Re: Confessions of a New Tank Beginner

Definitely do a water change to get those ammonia levels lower. Do maybe 20% and test tomorrow and if they are still high do another 20% until they get under control. And you only add enough of the AquaPlus to cover the amount of water you are adding not enough for the whole tank as the rest of the tank is already treated. Other then that you've already gotten nitrites, so that's a very good sign! Keep up the good work and you've be done in no time.

AquaPlus is a water treatment? My local LFS told me to treat the whole tank every time I do a water change/cleaning. Meaning I put in 4 oz. of water treatment for my 39 gallon tank (1 oz. per 10 gallons).

 

Re: Confessions of a New Tank Beginner

Thanks for the reply! What would be an acceptable level at this point in time for the ammonia levels to be at? I know at the end of the cycle I want them to be 0. But for now, how low should I aI'm for getting it? Thanks!

At a pH of say 7.7 (since you seem to be between 7.6 and 7.8 at the moment) and your temp of 77oF, if you total ammonia level is 4ppm then 0.11ppm of that is free ammonia. 0.02ppm is unhealthy for the fish (though they can live in that level for several days before showing bad effects) but at your level it is borderline critical and needs to be lowered as soon as possible. You should shoot for keeping the total ammonia down at 1ppm or less, which isn't easy to do during this phase of the cycle. Even at 1ppm you are still at a toxic level of 0.028ppm so it's still not healthy for the fish for too long of a time. Unless you can get it down to 0.5ppm in the next day or two, you might want to look into getting a ammonia detoxifier like or . If you get one of those (or a similar one) then it would take the place of the AquaPlus. To get your levels down now, I would do a 50% water change, and then tomorrow I would do a 20%-25% water change and keep doing that each day for the next few days to keep the levels low and see how your water tests.

AquaPlus is a water treatment? My local LFS told me to treat the whole tank every time I do a water change/cleaning. Meaning I put in 4 oz. of water treatment for my 39 gallon tank (1 oz. per 10 gallons).

Yes AquaPlus is a water conditioner to remove chlorine from the water and break up the chloramine bond (if you have chloramines in your tap water). It is only needed on the new water you are adding because you've already used it on the water in your tank. It won't hurt anything if you have been using that amount, but it isn't really adding all that much either other then making you have to buy another bottle sooner (possibly why they told you that in the first place). These products do have some other good things in them like slime coat treatments or vitamins, but if you want to add those then there are better products out there to do that with and save this just for treating new water.

 

Re: Confessions of a New Tank Beginner

I understand that if you pretreat the water that you are adding to your tank use the amount of conditioner for the water you are adding, if you are adding untreated water into your tank you should add enough to treat the amount of water in your tank.
Good luck!!

 

Re: Confessions of a New Tank Beginner

Always pretreat for chlorine and other disenfectants. Chlorine is put in our water to kill bacteria and if you put untreated water into your tank you could kill off the bacterial colonies. It is just as easy to pretreat and a safer choice if you have sensitive fish.
mojo

 

Re: Confessions of a New Tank Beginner

Always pretreat for chlorine and other disenfectants. Chlorine is put in our water to kill bacteria and if you put untreated water into your tank you could kill off the bacterial colonies. It is just as easy to pretreat and a safer choice if you have sensitive fish.
mojo

How long before adding the water to the tank do I have to pretreat it? I did a partial water change yesterday and pretreated the water but only minutes before placing it in my tank.

Tomorrow I will re-test all of my levels, I was unable to do so today. Hopefully the ammonia went down, if even slightly!

 

Re: Confessions of a New Tank Beginner

we treat the water when we put it in jugs. Then add it to tanks as needed. Most water treatments work immediately.

 

HI All,

Today I came home after being out of the house since yesterday morning. I found my female silver lyretail molly hiding amongst the java moss. She is much thinner today than she was when she left. I had thought she was pregnant when I brought her home from the store. I cannot tell if she aborted or gave birth. Would I be able to see fry this early on if they were born and not eaten? I don't see anything that resembles fry.

Also, her dorsal fin (is this the correct term? the one on top) seems to be slightly tattered and I think she may have Ich - there are two or three white spots on ther tail. This has me worried because I am in the middle of cycling this tank. Also, the male is being VERY aggressive towards her. He will not stop chasing her and she either wedges herself between the filter intake and the tank or the thermometer and the tank to hide from him. Should I return him to the pet store or will this behavior stop?

Also, I tested my water chemistry. Nothing is changed. Ammonia is still 4.0. NitrIte is still .25 and NitrAtes are still between 5.0 and 10.0. I will perform another partial water change today and hope it helps.

Should I remove the male from my tank and treat the tank for Ich? No other fish have white spots on them. Thanks for your help.

 

Keep doing water changes to get that ammonia under control. The stress of the cycle is why fish get infections like your female seems to have (I think it's fin rot and not ich as fin rot would lead to the tattered dorsal fin and the white spots on the tail though a picture would help to be certain). It's possible that the male is acting aggressively because she is weak, or if she is/was pregnant then that could have something to do with it. But I've never tried to breed my fish so I will leave that to someone more experienced. In any event, this is also adding to her stress levels and she needs to be treated based on whatever illness she has. If you can separate them, even if you have to move her to a bucket and put an air stone in it to keep it aerated for a few days to help her calm down. You could also start her treatment in the bucket as well.

 

I will set up another tank today to hold her in. Should I use the same water she is currently in? Or should I use partial current tank water with the remainder being new (but treated) tap water? Is a 2.5 gallon tank big enough to be a "hospital" tank? I have never used a hospital tank before. Any advice on setting one up (and quickly!) is greatly appreciated.

-Tony

 

Yeah a 2.5 Gal will work fine as a hospital tank for 1 fish. Unfortunately setting one up quickly without a cycled tank to take media from is hard unless you can get a hold of some bio-spira. On the plus side though, with a lot of water changes you can keep the ammonia levels low in the tank for the time that she is in there (hopefully she'll get better in a week or so). Also just feed her once a day and just enough for her to eat every piece of food and not let any fall to the tank bottom. And yes start her out there with water from your main tank (about 75% of the water in the hospital tank should be from the main tank to start with) and add a little new treated water just to get her going. Then the next day do a 25% water change to get a good deal of the ammonia out. After that do a 0.5 gal water change every day to keep things fresh.

Once you are able to move her back, if you want to keep this tank going fishless then you could drop a few flakes of food in every 12 hours and don't do any water changes. The ammonia levels will spike and you can fully cycle this tank and have it ready for when ever you need it. Just note that without fish you must always keep adding a few flakes of fish food to keep the supply of ammonia up (even if the tank doesn't show any when tested) so the good bacteria have enough to eat.

 

HI All,

I set up a hospital tank this afternoon. Per the advice of my LFS I purchased both Melafix and Pimafix. He says to use them in conjunction with each other. If I remember correctly there has been some controversy surrounding Melafix for use with Bettas. Does this also apply to other Labrynth fish? My sick fish is a molly. I haven't added any medication yet until I consult you guys!

 

Yes you can not use Melafix with any Labyrinth fish. However, I don't think a molly falls under that category so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

Mollys are livebearers so they should be fine with Melafix and Pimafix. Anabantoids (Labyrinth fish) are the only fish that those meds can kill.

We setup a 2.5g minibow as our q/h tank and since it hasn't been cycled, we use NovAqua+ (Prime would be good too) on the water that goes in it. We also do a 50% water change every other day. We have Otos in there and they've been doing well with this system, even with 5 otos in there.

Livebearer males will routinely harass females unless you have 2 females to each male. Pregnant females get even greater harassment.

Do you have VitaChem? It would help her recover and regrow her fins better. - we use it on all our fish, healthy or not.

 

HI All,

Some more updates! The hospital tank is up and running. It is a 2.5 gallon tank equipped with a Fuval 1 Plus filter (so no carbon for the meds) and I also have a Hydor MinI 7.5 Watt heater installed, but currently not turned on (the tank is hovering between 80 and 82 degrees right now after just a couple of hours of use of the heater). As soon as I noticed the high temperature I unplugged the heater. I also gave my Molly her first dose of both Melafix and Pimafix. The water in the tank is 75% water from the community tank and 25% new water treated with AquaPlus. Do I need to add an airstone for her or is she okay with the filter?

Also, after taking that two gallons-ish of water out of the community tank, I treated some new tap water and added it in there. So I performed two water changes today in the community tank. After retesting the Ammonia level, it is down to 2.0 - cut in half! Tomorrow I will test again.

Any more advice for helping my sick Molly? You guys have been great, so far!

Also, I have to female Molly's in my community tank, including the one currently in the hospital tank.

 

She'll definitely need an airstone, it will help her out. That vitachem is the only other thing i'd recommend (DFS orders usually take a few days it seems).

sounds like she got it because of the pregnancy.. which could last a LONG time.. if you see that 7.5w making it too hot or too up & down, i'd really recommend the 25w visitherm or there's a little 50w submersible for around $14 at wally-world. the main thing is to keep her temp constant and comfortable. (a ziplock bag with a few ice cubes in it can help lower the temp somewhat slowly and doesn't seem to cause great stress.)

 

Thanks, FL. I added an air-line in there. It doesn't have a stone on the end, its just blowing bubbles, but I hope it helps out. Tomorrow I'll buy a stone if you all still think that is necessary (is it?). Also, I just thought of something. The community tank was previously treated with Aquarium Salt (the prescribed amount for 10 gallons). So 75% of the water in her tank has come with some amount of salt in it. Now, should I add more salt to her tank for the new water? I have read that it helps recovering Molly's. Or is that not necessary because there is already a little salt in it? Thank you!

 

Thanks, FL. I added an air-line in there. It doesn't have a stone on the end, its just blowing bubbles, but I hope it helps out. Tomorrow I'll buy a stone if you all still think that is necessary (is it?). Also, I just thought of something. The community tank was previously treated with Aquarium Salt (the prescribed amount for 10 gallons). So 75% of the water in her tank has come with some amount of salt in it. Now, should I add more salt to her tank for the new water? I have read that it helps recovering Molly's. Or is that not necessary because there is already a little salt in it? Thank you!

It would be hard to measure the salinity and be sure of an exact amount so it would be your call on that. If you do add some, perhaps 25% of the recommended amount for the quantity of water that she's in would be the best dosage.

 

I just found this thread, but it sounds like you are well on your way to blissful Multiple Tank Syndrome (MTS). You know more, think more, and care more about fish than you ever thought you would! From what I see your cycle is well on the way. If you can't get your ammonia down under 1, I suggest you up your water changes to 50% daily till they finally go down to 0 for ammonia and nitrites.

Now for planning that next tank! Remember it is ALWAYS easier to keep a bigger tank healthy, and the water stays more stable. The size of your tank contributed to the fast spike of ammonia. This can end up lethal if you encounter a minI cycle at a time when you have stopped checking with your kit every other day. This minI cycle could be brought on by a vigorous tank cleaning, or just washing out your filter material. So, what's it going to be?
I started with a 55 gal, now have two that size, and a 125 gal, and a tank full of baby platys!

Land of the Midnight Sun 8)

 

Okay, day 2 of Molly in the sick tank. She seems to still not be herself, I'm not sure if its because its a less-stimulating environment, or not. I gave her her second dose of Melafix and Pimafix today. I also gave her a little bit of food. She maybe ate two or three flakes and that was it. This is very unlike her! I hope she is okay. I am almost certain, also, that she did in fact have her babies the other day (none of which survived, I am assuming). Today, in looking at her, I noticed a faint black spot on the bottom/back of her abdomen so I guess she is ready to spawn again! The white spots on her tail are still there and her fin is still a little tattered, so I will keep up with the treatments for the full seven days. Hopefully she is okay in this hospital tank. The medicine says not to change her water for seven days ... should I test for ammonia today and change it if its high? Will that interrupt her treatment?

 

Check your levels. Since it's only one fish in the tank and she's not eating much, she isn't producing as much ammonia. So you might be ok, but keep a close watch. Unfortunately because it's an uncycled tank, it's more important to keep the ammonia levels down then not change the water due to the meds. Also from what I've read about the meds, they lose their effectiveness after 24 hours anyway. So you could do a water change right before you add the next dosage for the day. That would keep the water the healthiest for the poor sick fishy. Some of the others that have had to treat their fish though would be able to tell you better as I'm just going by what I've read of others experiences. Good Luck!

 

You might also want to consider using NovAqua+ or Prime to keep the ammonia locked up while treating your molly. I don't think they'd interfere with the melafix or pimafix.

 

Okay, this morning I retested the levels in both tanks - community and hospital. Funny enough, my little sister is in town and she is a microbiology major. I asked her to help me with the testing (figured this would be right up her alley!) and she apparently knew EVERYTHING about the Nitrogen Cycle (of which I was blissfully unaware until the past couple of days!).

In my community tank the ammonia is still a problem - consistently at 4.0. I performed another 50% water change (which brought it down to 2.0 two days ago). I tested ammonia in my hospital tank, it was at 0.25. MUCH better than the community tank she came out of! My molly in the hospital tank continues her recovery. Her fins are no longer tattered, they look healthy in that respect. However, she continues to have white spots on her tail - I am assuming this is ich. Also, she doesn't seem to be eating - at all. I haven't seen her eat one flake of food since I placed her in there - this is VERY unlike her. This morning I dropped a shrimp pellet in there to see if maybe she just doesn't like going to the surface in this tank (its the only sinking food I have right now!)

Also, in my community tank, the male red swordtail has an outbreak of white spots on his tail, too. This is also why I think my other molly is suffering from ich. Unfortunately, I cannot afford to set up a second hospital tank, and I don't think it would be wise to put him in the 2.5g hospital tank with the fish already in there. Any suggestions on what I can do? Will it clear up on its own? Or will he at least be okay for four more days until my other molly finishes her treatment? Any help would be appreciated. If only I had found this site sooner!

 

For ich, you can bring the temp up to 82 for a couple weeks (which also will help the cycle process) and treat the tank with vita-chem and (which won't affect the cycle process but has a smell that is as wonderful as Amquel+) If ich has shown itself, treating the fish in the tank is the best course I believe.

The ammonia might be controlled for now with Novaqua+ or Prime. Yes, the ideal thing is to cycle but the sick fish will have trouble getting healthy with toxic ammonia.

 

HI all - thanks for the continued advice. Let me pose this question here - I also posted it in the Betta forum under the "Pimafix" topic. Should I discontinue the treatment of Melafix/Pimafix in the Hospital tank (since the tattered fin problem is solved) and move my Molly back to the community tank and treat the entire tank for Ich? I believe the Melafix/Pimafix with the clove oil is actually harming my sick Molly. All she does is lie around, not eating, and moping all day. If I move her back and begin treatment for only Ich with this Ich Attack you mention with the VitaChem and NovAqua, would this be acceptable? I am beginning to think I am risking her health by treating her with estimated amounts of Pimafix/Melafix (see the other topic for more specific information if you'd like ... but this is the jist!)

Thank you!

 

The clove oil is an anesthetic so i'd think the melafix/pimafix is just making her drowsy probably. If you discontinue it and do partial water changes, she should perk up as she feels less drowsy.

I'd try 'waking' her up and if she returns to a more active state, then you could add her back to the tank to treat for ich, if desired. Or if you feel she's had enough meds, then you could keep her in the hospital tank with clean water and just use vitachem and novaqua on it and watch her for a couple weeks for ich symptoms while the main tank goes thru treatment.

 

Okay. I am going to do a 50% water change and hope that wakes her up and then relocate her to the main tank. The reason I am going to relocate her is because I will be gone for the next four days and have a fish-sitter coming over to monitor the tank's progress, and it would be much easier for her to have to dispense one set of medication then two. Of course, if my Molly doesn't seem to wake up enough to be able to move to the main tank, I will continue her treatment seperately. I am off to the store to buy VitaChem, NovAqua and Ich Attack. I'll continue to update everyone on the tank's progress!

 

sounds good. best of luck with her and the others. hold your nose when you use the ich-attack.

 

Okay ... after searching my local fish stores (yes, plural) Ich Attack was nowhere to be found. I bought something called "Super Ick Cure" by API. The directions read "For best results, remove carbon filter..." Does this mean I *have* to? I really don't want to interrupt the cycle of this tank unless it is absolutely necessary. What do you guys think? I am still planning on reintroducing my female molly back into the main tank and discontinuing using Melafix and Pimafix.

 

the carbon will absorb the meds so it has to come out for most meds. You can put the filter cartridge back, just without the carbon. The carbon coming out won't hurt the cycle, but many meds break the cycle anyways. It will usually say something in the instructions/information if it does NOT affect the cycle.

 

It doesn't say it doesn't break the cycle ... does anyone have any experience with this specific medication? I am hesitant to use it if it will start me over at square 1 ... although if it must be done, it must be done! Where do you find Ich Attack? Is it available online? The earliest I could order it would be Tuesday so it probably wouldn't be delivered until Friday/Saturday ... will these fish last that long?

 

- $6.99 at the DFS site. i've seen it at our petco just recently for $13.99 I think.

They should be ok if the ich isn't super bad.. just bump it up to as close to 85 in their tank as you can and still have them content with the temp. the higher temp alone can clear ich - it needs cooler temps.

 

HI There,

Thanks for suggesting Petco! I avoid Petco because their aquarium section is about the size of my car (an Escort, no less!) and I assumed they would never have Ich Attack. Well, I just called and guess what? They just started carrying it and they had ONE bottle in stock! So I had them hold it for me and I Picked it up. I want to make sure this is the right stuff. It is Ich Attack by Kordon / AquaHerbal. Does that sound right? It doesn't mention not interrupting the cycle on the bottle. I thought you said that it should if it truly doesn't interrupt the cycle? Thanks for the help!

-Tony

 

Hmm.. I thought it was on the bottle. I stand corrected. It's in the information on the product at the manufacturers website.
- you've got the right product.

 

One additional bit of information on ich. If that is what your fish have, high temp. does kill it, it takes about 2 weeks to notice a big difference, so don't feel it isn't working just because the spots don't go away right off. Second thing to remember is that the high temperatures make oxygen less available to your fish, so be sure you have air stones, and it helps if you have a powerhead to circulate the airbubbles through the water.

Land of the Midnight Sun 8)

 

Alright, glad I got the right product. I stepped out of the house this evening to go to the Pirates game (any Braves fans here? because I've become one after tonight!). Prior to leaving I had performed a 50% water change in the hospital tank to remove some of the built up Melafix and Pimafix. I was hoping this would help to "wake up" Doug. But it didn't. I found her in even worse shape when I got home. Lying absolutely motionless at the bottom of the tank. She won't move. She won't swim. I had to turn the filter off because the current was too strong and it either sucked her up to the intake or pushed her to the glass on the opposite side of the tank. Here come daily water changes! I don't know what more to do for her beyond changing the medication to Ich Attack I am STUMPED.

In the main tank, I removed the carbon portion of my filter (it also has a foam insert and some bio-mass thingies (its an AquaClear system). I treated the main tank this evening with it's first dose of Ich Attack. Hopefully this helps kick the Ich out of my tank! I leave tomorrow for four days, I have a fish-sitter coming over each day to feed and dispense medicine to each tank. I hope Doug makes it until I get back and I hope she's looking better then, too! Any advice you can continue to come up with, please don't hesitate to pass it along.

 

How is her gill movement and gill color? Do you see anything visibly different about her? It seems odd she'd react like that to melafix, being a livebearer, and may have an internal problem that's either the true cause or was 'helped' by the clove oil. But the only thing to do really is try to figure out what's going on from external signs. Hopefully, it's just the clove oil working thru and she'll snap out of it on her own.

 

look at the discussion in betta about pimafix. It may expalin what is happening.
mojo