Common Goldfish - Fuzzy White Bump - Swimming Frantically!

We have had Bubbles for 14 years. He is a common goldfish about 6-inches long. Our son got him at a carnival when he was a kid. Bubbles is in a 40-gallon tank by himself, and has been in seemingly excellent health all these years. We don't do water changes as often as we should but often enough, as we've kept him in good shape for a long time.

We did a 50% water change and the next day Bubbles stopped eating. (We feed him shelled green peas and sinking pellets). He now has not eaten for about 8 days. He also is swimming violently around the tank, and sometimes bumps into the filter tube. Sometimes he is hanging out at the surface. He doesn't usually look like he's gasging for air, but just hanging out at the top a lot lately. We are freaking out.

I checked the water chemistry after the water change and everything was normal except the nitrates which were through the roof! I continued with daily partial changes of about 25 percent until we brought the nitrates down to about 30-35 percent over about 4 days. All other reading are very normal. Ammonia and Nitrites at zero. Ph is a bit high at 81, but that has always been the case with our water.

Today we notices white, somewhat fuzzy bumps on his mouth. I've attached some photos.

We're afraid he will die. Can anyone offer some help here?

 

Is it just on his mouth? How fuzzy? Color?
IHaveADogToo Discus-Tang DarkOne could you help here? Please?

 

Gypsy... it doesn't look really fuzzy. Hard to tell in the pic, but it looks more like a big white pimple that's ready to pop. It's on the top lip, just off center on the fish's right side. It looks like there might be 5 or 6 smaller ones started further to the right and 1 smaller on on the left. Again, these are all on the top lip. On the bottom lip, same location as the big bump but on the bottom, is a dark spot. Could be a little white around the edge of it but it is really hard to tell.

 

That's a pretty accurate description. To add, in the photo, the bump looks blurry, and the rest of the fish's face is clear. Maybe that's what the OP is referring to as fuzzy. Maybe in person that translates to a fuzzy or "bacterial" kind of appearance.

If the fish's mouth is injured that would explain why it's not eating.

 

It is just on the inner edge of his mouth. It is a bit fuzzy, but not long fuzz. Yes, there are some smaller spots as well. The dark spot on his lower lip is just his coloring. He's hadthat his whole life.

Maybe this attached photo will show the texture better.....


It is white in color, and its surface is not smooth.

 

What's your nitrate reading now? What are you using for dechlorinator? Are you temp matching the water you're putting in? Do you have an air stone in the tank (bubbles?) What type of filter?

I would continue with 10-20% water changes daily until you get nitrates down to about 20ppm or less. The pics are too fuzzy to tell if the white spots are fungus or a parasite. I'm guessing fungus. The clean water should definitely help but if it's been there more than a few days, you need meds like API Fungus Cure.

 

In that pic, it looks like underneath the bumps it's kind of pink. Is that how it looks in person or just the lighting? Like a scrape on the lip that the bumps started growing on?

The edges of the large bump in that pic kind of reminds me of how cotton candy looks at the edges. Not fluffy fuzzy like a dandelion ready to seed. Is that how it looks in person? If not, what "common item" does it look like in person, Mitchell?

 

What's happened here sounds like a case of old tank syndrome. Basically, your nitrates were through the roof due to tank age and lax maintenance, and when you finally did a significant series of water changes, the shift in parameters shocked the fish, and weakened his immune system. What's happening here is opportunistic, and is probably something this fish could fight naturally with his immune system had he not recently been shocked by a parameter shift. I suggest you treat with E.M. Erythromycin. Make sure you remove any carbon from your filter before adding medication to the water, as carbon will filter the medication out. Also keep up with your tank maintenance moving forward by doing weekly water changes, to avoid old tank syndrome in the future.

 

I have not checked nitrates since this morning. But, with him not eating, and with no residual food in the tank, I can't imagine that it's on teh way up much. I'll check it and report back.

We use We use Tetra AquaSafe as we have for 14 years.

There is a large air stone and an Aqueoon QuietFlow 50 filter. I know to leave the biofilter dirty when changing the filter medium.

I am a chef and very carefully test the water temperature before adding it. I set it up hours before and allow it time to come to room temperature, then I use an instant-read thermometer to check the temperature is the same before adding it.

About a year ago Bubbles turned pink all over when he had been standard gold. It was weird, but I read this happens sometimes when goldfish get older so we didn't worry about it too much.

The stuff on his lip has been there at least two days. It may have been there earlier but I hadn't noticed it. He's swimming around so much and so fast, it is hard to tell what is going on.

The growth looks sort of like a cotton ball texture (?), or like a slightly-roughened Q-Tip, but not like a dandelion for sure.

IHaveADogToo Now that I'm thinking back, we did one approximate 40% change and Bubbles became listless, hanging out on the gravel at the bottom of the tank and not eating. There had been a fair bit of algae on the glass which I scraped off and scooped up in a net (all of this with him in the tank), used a gravel filter a bit, and then allowed the tank filter to clear things up for about an hour before I changed the carbon filter.

The next day he still wasn't eating so I checked the nitrates. Then began the daily water changes. That's when the rapid swimming started.

IHaveADogToo Nitrates are currently at 40.

Immediately before the E.M. Erythromycin treatment, should I do one more water change to bring the nitrates down?

 

Doing a water change prior to starting this round of medication is probably a good idea. When I was talking about old tank syndrome and a shift in water parameters, I didn't mean temperature per-se. When a tank sits and accumulates high levels of nitrates over time, it messes with the water's chemistry, reducing the pH, affecting the hardness, and so on. It's bad to let your fish adapt to these kinds of parameters, because you can't match it when you do water changes. So you wind up in a situation where doing water changes sends your fish into shock. Now that you've been doing a lot of water changes, your tank should now be closer in water chemistry to your tap. But before you started with all this deep maintenance, the tank sat for a while, so the chemistry of the tank water and your fresh tap water were totally different. *That* is old tank syndrome. You should test the pH of your tap water and of your tank water and compare the readings. I just wish you could go back in time and get a reading from your tank from before you started all these water changes to compare against your tank now.

 

Yes. I wish I had those parameters from back then too.

Yes, I understood your earlier explanation about the parameters and old tank syndrome.

What about DarkOne 's idea to use API FungusCure instead of EM Erythromycin. I am concerned that in Bubble's weakened state that the EM Erythromycin might be too much of a burden on his body? But, this question is coming from a state of ignorance. I know very little about all of this stuff.

 

Either one should work. EME is probably a better choice but harder to find locally and Fungus Cure is sold almost everywhere. I usually keep General Cure and EME on hand in case I need it (along with some other meds). Make sure you do the full treatment (remove carbon, 2 doses 48hrs apart, w/c 48hr after last dose).

 

If you read the description I posted of E.M. Erythromycin, it says it is safe to use as a secondary with other API fungal medicines, which Fungus Cure is. In the end, though, you can use whichever medication or combination of mediations you feel most comfortable with for your fish. Read up on both of them and decide for yourself how you want to proceed. I've personally never used API Fungus Cure, but I have used E.M. Erythromycin, and I can say it is a more broad spectrum medication, not just an anti-fungal. It treats bacterial infections, and several other things as well. So it's a good thing to have on hand at all times as a fish keeper, anyway. I do. That said, if you use API Fungus Cure, and then decide you want to try E.M. Erythromycin, you should be able to do that safely according to API. You should even be able to mix them safely.

 

I believe I can get EME locally at one of our specialty places.
Thanks for your help! I will let you know how it turns out.

 

Did a 25% water change today. Nitrates now down to 20%. IHaveADogToo, I tested the tap water at your request and found Ph of 7.3. Started EME (yes, I removed the carbon filter). Fingers crossed that this works and that he starts eating.

How often and how much should I be feeding him? I think I may have been giving him too much, if he can go all this time without food and not look all that worse for wear. I was going with the "all he can eat in 20 seconds" thing, twice a day. Remember, he is about seven-inches long (just measured him), nose-to-tip-of-tail.

 

Fish can go for several days, even weeks without food, and not starve. They don't *need* to eat every day. I generally feed all my fish once a day, 6 days a week, and I don't feed them on the 7th day. A day of fasting is good for their digestion. Sometimes I even skip 2 feedings in a week. As far as how much to feed at one time, though, that does depend on the species and size. A good rule of thumb is a fish's stomach is the size of their eye. Some fish are real slow eaters and won't eat enough in 20 seconds, and others will scarf down food so fast you could dangerously overfeed them in 20 seconds. So I don't do the "all they can eat in 20 seconds" thing. I portion out the food according to the fish's size.

 

Thank you guys! One thing I’d like for you to do
Mitchell is swab the bump with hydrogen peroxide. That will tell you so many things. If it’s fungal at least some will adhere to the swab. If it’s a tumor it won’t come off at all. You’ll be able to see how hard or soft it is. Using fungal cure and erythromycin is certainly understandable here.
And as far as how much to feed goldfish, they have no stomach. You’ve taken excellent care of this fish for over 14 years. You know how much is too much. Just, due to his age, feed more green peas. Less prepared foods.
Y’all are doing great! Thank you.

 

Gypsy13, The bump actually came off the evening prior to starting the EME, so nothing to swab at this point. The fuzzy white stuff was basically gone, and his whole mouth was extra pink...looking a bit swollen (?). Maybe he bumped it off when thrashing around the tank? He's been fairly violent at times.

I gave him the second round of EME this afternoon. Tomorrow is the 25% PWC and the third round of EME.

He still hasn't eaten (9 or 10 days now). This morning he freaked me out. I got up and found that he had put his head in the bottom back corner of the tank and was just lying there. I tapped the tank. He didn't move at all. Gills not moving. Nothing. I thought he was dead. We started reaching for him and he starting swimming around. Whew!

I am a little concerned, with all these water changes bringing the nitrates down to 20, that he has not been used to these parameters. I'm about to do another one that might make it lower still. Wouldn't it be better to slow down the water changes and give him time ot get used to all of this? Also, what do I do if he goes on not eating. Can fish be force fed somehow or something?

 

Gypsy13, The bump actually came off the evening prior to starting the EME, so nothing to swab at this point. The fuzzy white stuff was basically gone, and his whole mouth was extra pink...looking a bit swollen (?). Maybe he bumped it off when thrashing around the tank? He's been fairly violent at times.

I gave him the second round of EME this afternoon. Tomorrow is the 25% PWC and the third round of EME.

He still hasn't eaten (9 or 10 days now). This morning he freaked me out. I got up and found that he had put his head in the bottom back corner of the tank and was just lying there. I tapped the tank. He didn't move at all. Gills not moving. Nothing. I thought he was dead. We started reaching for him and he starting swimming around. Whew!

I am a little concerned, with all these water changes bringing the nitrates down to 20, that he has not been used to these parameters. I'm about to do another one that might make it lower still. Wouldn't it be better to slow down the water changes and give him time ot get used to all of this? Also, what do I do if he goes on not eating. Can fish be force fed somehow or something?

If it was ammonia/nitrites I’d say keep up the water changes. For nitrates I’d ease up a bit. Have you offered him something different to eat? Or soaked pellets in garlic? And remember they can go for quite a while without food. Question: has he started losing muscle? Is he thrashing more after the EME than before?

 

Ammonia and nitrites are at zero.
Earlier this afternoon I did a 25% change, and then did the 3rd EME dose. 4th and final dose is tomorrow afternoon (Friday). The instructions on the EME say that on Saturday I should do one more 25% water change before putting in a fresh carbon filter. I'm assuming I should do that last change?

I'll try feeding garlic soaked pellets now.

He seems to have the same muscle mass. He is mostly calmer, not constantly swimming quickly, but has shorter, much more violent bursts of thrashing.

 

Yes do the water change Saturday. I’m curious as to what is causing the thrashing. Can you get a good picture of him from the side and one going from back to front?

 

Tried garlic-soaked pelletes, and softened garlic-soaked lettuce. He showed no interest in it.

 

Are these photos what you had in mind?

 

Yes thank you. Now we’ll get someone to help look at them. What hubby describes isn’t making sense to me.
max h scarface Discus-Tang can y’all look at this goldfish for me? Looking for reasons for flashing especially. Please?

 

Hey, Gypsy13 ... I circled some things in the pics. Think hubby can look at them and help again? I don't know if these are normal or not.... every goldfish may have these for all I know! LOL. They are what I see...






If they are normal things, you may get a good laugh out of it!!

 

(Posted twice, deleted one)

 

Hey, Gypsy13 ... I circled some things in the pics. Think hubby can look at them and help again? I don't know if these are normal or not.... every goldfish may have these for all I know! LOL. They are what I see...

View attachment 481417
View attachment 481418

If they are normal things, you may get a good laugh out of it!!

He’s no help.
Do they look like something attached or loose/raised scales?

 

OMG don't laugh at my description!!! They kind of look like little tiny white sticks stuck into it. The ones under his tail, the way they seem to be on him remind me of teeny accupuncture pins. Since he's so "pearly" the ones at his back might actually be a light glare. The spot at the base of the tail is kinda like what is on his lip but not the well defined big bump, the smaller bumps....... HOWEVER it's kind of a fuzzy pic when I zoom in that close. I so don't feel confident in this description. I was hoping hubby might could help.

------

EDIT
Also, on the left gill cover, there could be a spot right at the outer edge ... looks kind of like a bruise ... or it could be his coloring.

 

OMG don't laugh at my description!!! They kind of look like little tiny white sticks stuck into it. The ones under his tail, the way they seem to be on him remind me of teeny accupuncture pins. Since he's so "pearly" the ones at his back might actually be a light glare. The spot at the base of the tail is kinda like what is on his lip but not the well defined big bump, the smaller bumps....... HOWEVER it's kind of a fuzzy pic when I zoom in that close. I so don't feel confident in this description. I was hoping hubby might could help.

I never laugh at descriptions. Well rarely.
Hubby is no help. Just wants me to sleep.
Hopefully someone will be able to look at this guy.

Mitchell F. do you see anything hanging anywhere?

 

Other than his lip, he looks fairly normal; like he always has. he's still in pretty good shape. He has one scale (on the other side from the photo) that pulled up about a year ago when it got caught in a net.
I believe the barb-like things under his tail are just light reflecting, not physical structures. The spot on his back/left below his dorsal may be from thrashing around. He knocked over a rock, and then swam super-fast on one of his next passes and jammed himself under the rock. He was able to free himself, but I moved the rock so he coudn't do that again.
I don't see any other bumps or growths anywhere.
It's dark now. I'll need to take a closer look with more light. But, I'm scheduled to work a long day tomorrow between 8am to 11pm, so I may not have much light to check it out. As soon as I'm able, I'll let y'all know.

 

See if you can spot anything out of the usual on him. Something is making him carry on like a banshee.

 

Finished the 4 doses of EME. Did a 25% water change today. Replaced the chacoal filter.

He's mostly calmer. Thrashes around only occasionally. Still not eating- 11 or 12 days now.

His upper lip seems rough. There is a thread-like thing on hip upper lip and I think there is one more on his nostril.

 

Tell me. Does this look like something growing or like degrading tissue?
They are knocking me out for the night.
Discus-Tang could you help here? Aquababy too? My at symbol just stopped again. Please?

 

Mitchell F. Are the things on his nostril and lip moving on their own or due to water movement? They don't look like they are in the same position in the pics. Really hard to tell because the pics aren't that clear and he is such a light color.

-------

Also, has he always had this coloring in these spots?




The one I circled in black looks a bit darker than in the previous pics. Not sure about the one in the purple, but thought I'd double check.

 

The stuff hanging off looks more like degrading tissue. The only move with the movement of the water. They don't seem to be parasites or worms or anything like that.
The flesh of his lips are a bit darker than his normal state. But, they were even darker before the EME. They seem to be returning more to his regular color.

 

Maybe it’s dead tissue sloughing off. The darker areas could be healing tissue. Could you perhaps look through a magnifying glass at it? Just to be sure?

 

His mouth is looking a little better today.

He just ate a small piece of green pea !

 

His mouth is looking a little better today.

He just ate a small piece of green pea !

Awesome! Keep up the great work! Such a good findaddy!

 

I think we got him through this. He is now eating regularly and is completely calm. Thanks to all of you for your help. I don't know what I would have done without your advice.
The only thing that concerns me now is that, much more than before, he seems to be hanging out with his head pointing straight up, tail down and just swimming in place. He would do that before, briefly, from time-to-time, but now it is for much longer periods. Is this normal goldfish behavior?

 

Gypsy13 is awesome, isn't she?!


Glad he's doing better!

I've never owned a goldfish, so I don't have the first clue as to what normal goldfish behavior is!!! I'm sure either Gypsy or another of our goldy peeps can help with that one.

 

Sorry for not chiming in. I see that I was tagged, but never received a notification. Glad things worked out in the end. As far as swimming, no, it doesn’t sound normal, but I’d like to see a photo to be sure. Sometimes goldfish hover in place and may tilt slightly.