Comet goldfish very lethargic

Need some help to bring back my fish to good health. But I fear it might be too late. Any help/advice will be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

***GENERAL INFO***

We have 2 comet goldfish. One is about 4cm (1.5 inches) and the other about 6cm (2.4 inches). They are in a 28L (7.4 gallon)tank. The big fish is a lot bigger in size as its more rounded even though its not that much bigger in length. It seems since we bought them the big one has been getting bigger and bigger but the small one is growing a lot slower.

The tank has a filter and an aeration stone.

They eat flakes. The flakes we feed them are quite big, so now I crush them into tiny pieces.





***WATER CONDITION***

GH 120 (ideal),

KH 80 (caution to ideal)

pH 6.0-6.5 (danger to caution)

NO2 0-0.5 (ideal to caution)

NO3 40 (ideal)

NH3/NH4 0 (ideal)

Water temperature 24.3 degrees Celsius (75.7 degrees Fahrenheit)





***BEHAVIOUR***

We bought the fish about 5 months ago and have had no issues with them until about 6 weeks ago. Even after two 50% water changes and one full tank water change. It all started after we did our 2nd full tank water change - see below

They have been fine up until 6 weeks ago, when I changed all the water and washed the gravel. At around the same time we also bought a different brand of flake food.

Since then they have been acting really strange:

1. They stay mainly at the bottom without moving and hiding inside a rock feature or behind plants.

2. But they also come up and hang in the corners of the tank almost vertical (75 degrees), like sucking for air.

3. At times they swim fast and erratically (for about 10 seconds at a time), almost bouncing off the gravel and side of tanks, like some kind of nervous system issue? They don't both do it at the same time, just at different times.

4. We thought the big fish is picking on the small fish but not really. The odd thing is the small one sometimes huddles next to or underneath the big fish at the bottom of the tank

5. Sometimes while they are at the bottom of the tank the small fish will be pecking slowly at the big fish's belly, the big fish will just stay still, it wont try and swim away.

6. They both come up to eat when fed, but it seems the small fish is up their looking for food but hardly eats them but it keeps looking for them and swims past them as the flakes are floating, occasionally it will eat a small piece here and there.

7. Initially the big fish was very lethargic, and the small one was fine, then the small fish was lethargic and the big one was fine. But now both of them are lethargic but the small fish is in a worse condition

8. Sometimes they hang almost vertical facing down at the aerator bubbles, trying to get oxygen from the bubbles. Often they will hang by the filter exit where the water is being pumped back into the tank.



***WHAT HAVE WE TRIED SO FAR***

1. Lets say today is week 6

2. Week 1 I changed all the water and washed the gravel. I put in the normal stress coat and stress enzyme droplet. Around this time a week later maybe, we bought new flake food (bigger flakes). I moved the fish to a large bowl while I took the gravel out to clean. I realize now, this wasn't a good idea and should have just done a 50% water change.

3. Week 2 we noticed the large fish was lethargic

3. Week 3 we noticed both fish were lethargic.

4. Week 3 we did all the tests but ammonia, and everything came out fine. We fed the fish a pea each (crushed without skin), just in case they were constipated and we reduced the amount of food. As we were overfeeding them big time. We changed 50% of the water.. We also started putting 5ml of API melafix into the tank for the next 7 days.

5. Week 4 the big fish seems a bit better but the small fish is lethargic still. It gills are more exposed and its like its face has shrunk and its malnourished. We did a ammonia test and it was at zero.

6. Week 5 both fish are very lethargic, hardly moving and hanging at the bottom without moving. Only coming up for food. The small fish hardly eats. And its not like its being bullied by the big fish.

7 Week 6 The small fish swims occasionally but otherwise it tries to hide right up inside the top of the rock feature or stays up the top in the corners. It will swim occasionally and still comes up for food but hardly eats. Both still do that erratic swims (bouncing off things) a few times a day - Mainly the big fish

NOW (week 6, yesterday): I have moved the small fish into a big bowl with new water and some rocks for cover. I treated the water with Stress coat, stress enzyme droplets and put in the API melafix as well. The water is aerated. I gave it another crushed pea but didn't eat really, it ate a few tiny flakes of fish food. It just looks really sick or malnourished. Both fish seem to be pooing ok. The big one is in the tank just hanging up with its mouth at the top of the water at almost a75 degrees angle (close to vertical) - It still eats ok as normal, no issues, but hardly swims unless its feeding time.



***POSSSIBLE DIAGNOSIS***

1. We thought the water was in bad condition but it seems ok, apart from the pH reading at week 6 (yesterday), which seems to be a bit low.

2. We thought they were constipated so we reduced feeding and gave them some peas.

3. We though the small fish was being bullied on by the big fish, but it doesn't appear to be so.

4. Could be some bacterial or fungal infection?

5. Is it something in the tank, hard to tell if the small fish in the bowl is getting better or not as its only been there for 12 hours now.

6. Is it the water temperature as its mid summer here and in the last 5 weeks the air temp inside the house is about 25 degrees during the hottest part of the day

7. Is the small fish just so malnourished as it hasn't really eat for 5 weeks since we got the new fish food with the bigger flakes? And now its so sick it cant even eat?

8. Its likely the fish were slowly getting sick even before we did the water change or bought the big flakes - Maybe the water change made it worse.





Thank you

 

You said you wash the gravel when you change water. You also said no to the nitrogen cycle question. It sounds like your fish may be suffering from ammonia or chlorine poisoning.

However, you have also kept them for 4 months without problem. Have you been changing the water and washing the gravel all along, or did you just do that recently? It is possible that your the condition was more tolerable when the fish were smaller and got worse as they grew. Did you change your water conditioner around the time symptoms began?

 

Those water test readings are you using a liquid test kit or test strips?

 

Those water test readings are you using a liquid test kit or test strips?

Only the ammonia is a liquid test, all the other are test strips.

 

What type of filter do you have in the tank? Sorry if I missed it in the post.

 

You said you wash the gravel when you change water. You also said no to the nitrogen cycle question. It sounds like your fish may be suffering from ammonia or chlorine poisoning.

However, you have also kept them for 4 months without problem. Have you been changing the water and washing the gravel all along, or did you just do that recently? It is possible that your the condition was more tolerable when the fish were smaller and got worse as they grew. Did you change your water conditioner around the time symptoms began?

Well the thing is we moved cities (so difference local councils and different water supplies) So in November we moved cities and the fish were transported in a fish bag for an 90mins. Then they went into the sam tank with completely new water (no gravel or filter wash).

Then around the last week of December fist week of January I did a complete water change including washing gravel and filters in normal tap water (stupid idea I realize now). Its possible the fish were getting sick after we did the first complete water change when we moved city but we just didn't notice. And then they got really worse after the 2nd complete water change (including gravel and filter wash).

I mean i did the ammonia test last night and it cam fine. It was yellow and the card reading said yellow was zero.

So am I doing more damage now by moving the smaller fish to big bowl with completely new water?

Thanks

What type of filter do you have in the tank? Sorry if I missed it in the post.

I don't know to be honest, I can check when I'm home soon. Its just an all in one tank setup we bought. It comes with the lid and a filtration unit with 2 small rectangular sponge type material. "Aqua One" branded.

 

That full water change with gravel wash must have reset your tank. You now have to reestablish your tank, and that may mean frequent and large (~50%) water changes (every couple days or so) for a few weeks.

The test strips are hard to interpret, I can never tell which exactly the color is, and they are not very accurate. Since you kept these fish for 4 months, it is very unlikely it is a disease that came from outside, very likely a water issue.

 

That full water change with gravel wash must have reset your tank. You now have to reestablish your tank, and that may mean frequent and large (~50%) water changes (every couple days or so) for a few weeks.

The test strips are hard to interpret, I can never tell which exactly the color is, and they are not very accurate. Since you kept these fish for 4 months, it is very unlikely it is a disease that came from outside, very likely a water issue.

Thanks for your help. I will do a 50% water change every few days starting today. And I guess I need to move the smaller fish back into the tank as its in a large bowl with completely new water? Also when I do the 50% water change should I add any chemicals to the water like the stress coat and enzyme stuff?

 

Well the thing is we moved cities (so difference local councils and different water supplies) So in November we moved cities and the fish were transported in a fish bag for an 90mins. Then they went into the sam tank with completely new water (no gravel or filter wash).

Then around the last week of December fist week of January I did a complete water change including washing gravel and filters in normal tap water (stupid idea I realize now). Its possible the fish were getting sick after we did the first complete water change when we moved city but we just didn't notice. And then they got really worse after the 2nd complete water change (including gravel and filter wash).

I mean i did the ammonia test last night and it cam fine. It was yellow and the card reading said yellow was zero.

So am I doing more damage now by moving the smaller fish to big bowl with completely new water?

Thanks

My theory is they have a disease they caught while their immune systems were suppressed from the stress of moving. I think a good plan would be to come up with a list of all the symptoms, so we can try to diagnose the issue.
Tell me if this is right, or if I need to add or take away anything:
Clamped fins, lethargy, breathing heavily/breathing issues, flashing (the erratic swimming you described),and wasting away. If this is correct,it sounds like parasites. Pictures would help if that is possible.

Yeah, you should add stress coat or any other dechlorinator every time you do a water change.

 

The small fish
- lethargy
- breathing heavily
- comes up for food but hardly eats much
- clamped fins
- wasting away ( the gills look bad)
- looks skinny
- normally hides down at the bottom or sucking for air up the top

The bigger fish
- Lethargy but can be active it sees us or during feeding time
- flashing at times but I've only seen it once tonight in about 2 hours.
- hangs up the top in the corners normally without much movement
- breathing not too bad
- fins not clamped


I've changed 50% of the water now and put the smaller fish back into the tank.
More photos

 

Seems like flukes in the smaller one at least. I like to use MinnFinn for flukes, it's around 16 bucks off aquanooga (aquarium website). It's treats a bunch of other things too, so it's useful to have in the "medicine cabinet" for your fish.

 

Seems like flukes in the smaller one at least. I like to use MinnFinn for flukes, it's around 16 bucks off aquanooga (aquarium website). It's treats a bunch of other things too, so it's useful to have in the "medicine cabinet" for your fish.

Unfortunately It seems like MinnFinn is not available in NZ, maybe I just use the API pimafix

 

Unfortunately It seems like MinnFinn is not available in NZ, maybe I just use the API pimafix

Mmm. Dang it. I would NOT use pimax to treat flukes, it's an antifungal medication that isn't supposedly the most effective anyways, and can be made at home more cost effectively and without any carcinogens. Do you have access to praziquantel (Prazi-Pro)? That is the next option I'd go to, though there has been some resistance of it just to give you a heads up.

 

Mmm. Dang it. I would NOT use pimax to treat flukes, it's an antifungal medication that isn't supposedly the most effective anyways, and can be made at home more cost effectively and without any carcinogens. Do you have access to praziquantel (Prazi-Pro)? That is the next option I'd go to, though there has been some resistance of it just to give you a heads up.

I'm googling it but it seems hard to find around where I live. I'll keep trying. Thanks heaps for your help.

 

I'm googling it but it seems hard to find around where I live. I'll keep trying. Thanks heaps for your help.

You may also be able to get it from a veterinarian, or possibly some other medication, so it might be worth a shot to call one or two places.

 

You may also be able to get it from a veterinarian, or possibly some other medication, so it might be worth a shot to call one or two places.

Good. I will pop into the vets after work. That small fish is just getting worse. That gill damage (or what appears like damaged red gills), that's permanent is it? Meaning he's never going to be a 100% even if he somehow manages to make it through?

 

I just want to say that a 7.4 gallon tank isn't large enough for any fish except for a betta. Two comet goldfish need a 29 gallon tank, at least. They produce so much waste, and with the current situation unless you change 50% water everyday, it is almost impossible to have 0 ammonia in the tank. Some comet goldfish are produced in large quantities, and usually already came with genetic problems/long-term illnesses. It might just be bad luck, but then, I'd also look into larger tanks, if possible.

 

I just want to say that a 7.4 gallon tank isn't large enough for any fish except for a betta. Two comet goldfish need a 29 gallon tank, at least. They produce so much waste, and with the current situation unless you change 50% water everyday, it is almost impossible to have 0 ammonia in the tank. Some comet goldfish are produced in large quantities, and usually already came with genetic problems/long-term illnesses. It might just be bad luck, but then, I'd also look into larger tanks, if possible.

I'm no gold fish expert (guess that's part of the problem) but I don't like seeing them in a small tank. We bought these for our kids but in hindsight it wasn't a good idea - Poor advice from the pet shop and we should have done our research.

Interestingly I came across this lady ( https://puregoldfish.com/stunted-growth/ ) on the net this morning, in her view she's saying stunted growth doesn't damage the fish health-wise. Either way I don't think my fish are having fun in a small tank regardless of good/bad health.

I'm changing 25% to 50% water every 2nd day at the moment. Once the small fish comes right (if it does) we are going to find someone with a bond to take them. Will require some sort of transition to go from tank to pond.

 

I'm no gold fish expert (guess that's part of the problem) but I don't like seeing them in a small tank. We bought these for our kids but in hindsight it wasn't a good idea - Poor advice from the pet shop and we should have done our research.

Interestingly I came across this lady ( Stunted Goldfish Growth: How it Happens (and Is it Harmful?) ) on the net this morning, in her view she's saying stunted growth doesn't damage the fish health-wise. Either way I don't think my fish are having fun in a small tank regardless of good/bad health.

I'm changing 25% to 50% water every 2nd day at the moment. Once the small fish comes right (if it does) we are going to find someone with a bond to take them. Will require some sort of transition to go from tank to pond.

It's better to have a larger tank if you could, and if not, a pond of any kind would work (you don't have to have a transition. Just acclimate the fish). Stunted growth doesn't damage fish if it's only a small stunt (2-4 inches for goldfish). If the fish is severely stunted (ex. Kept in a very small tank), the body will stop growing, but the organs won't. Then you have this situation with the organs bursting the body (exaggerated, of course), and the fish dying in pain (not exaggerated). The water changes will keep the water clean, so keep it up. Good luck!

Edit: What I mean by the organs keep growing is that it doesn't seem to happen with all goldfish, but for some, the eyes seem to be abnormally big, or the stomach seems to bulge out with lumps (maybe tumors caused by stunting?). It's not proven, but I'd play on the safe side and get a larger tank.

 

It's better to have a larger tank if you could, and if not, a pond of any kind would work (you don't have to have a transition. Just acclimate the fish). Stunted growth doesn't damage fish if it's only a small stunt (2-4 inches for goldfish). If the fish is severely stunted (ex. Kept in a very small tank), the body will stop growing, but the organs won't. Then you have this situation with the organs bursting the body (exaggerated, of course), and the fish dying in pain (not exaggerated). The water changes will keep the water clean, so keep it up. Good luck!

Edit: What I mean by the organs keep growing is that it doesn't seem to happen with all goldfish, but for some, the eyes seem to be abnormally big, or the stomach seems to bulge out with lumps (maybe tumors caused by stunting?). It's not proven, but I'd play on the safe side and get a larger tank.

I have changes my tank size views...several times. I would be more on the side of an upgrade though.

Not true about the organs, there is really no evidence, from what I can tell it's simply an internet rumor. I've looked for any evidence, and there is none. Actually the anecdotal evidence is to the contrary. The oldest lived goldfish were (There are several cases) stunted, living in <20 gallon tanks. 40+ years old.

On your note about odd proportions, sometimes slower growth does mean they can be thrown off a bit from what I hear, though I've never experienced it. I once had one telescope who had with a slightly larger eye (he had it when I got him, and I didn't have him in a place where he'd be stunted), but I didn't raise him so I couldn't say if he was like that from birth or stunting or a bad environment. Either way, no studies have shown an answer to that specifically, and I can't give a confident answer either.

I'm no gold fish expert (guess that's part of the problem) but I don't like seeing them in a small tank. We bought these for our kids but in hindsight it wasn't a good idea - Poor advice from the pet shop and we should have done our research.

Interestingly I came across this lady ( Stunted Goldfish Growth: How it Happens (and Is it Harmful?) ) on the net this morning, in her view she's saying stunted growth doesn't damage the fish health-wise. Either way I don't think my fish are having fun in a small tank regardless of good/bad health.

I'm changing 25% to 50% water every 2nd day at the moment. Once the small fish comes right (if it does) we are going to find someone with a bond to take them. Will require some sort of transition to go from tank to pond.

Meredith Clawson is a great resource, I highly suggest reading rest of her tank size related articles for more guidance. I've not found any of her advice to be unhelpful or wrong to this point, and she does a fairly nice job of giving good, science based advice. I don't think you need to give up goldfish keeping, you just need to adjust. It's very educational, and fun, and gold fish can be such great pets.