Columnaris In Cardinal Tetras?

Fawkes21
  • #1
Was feeding my parents' fish and I noticed that 2 of them have fluff in/on their mouths. One also has a dip in its back, as well as white spots on the tail (ich?)

Is this columnaris and how can it be treated? I live in the UK so getting kanaplex will be quite difficult.

It seems to only be affecting the tetras. What should I do with the unaffected fish?

Thanks for any suggestions!
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Letsfish
  • #2
I went through to same problem last year. I lost about 12 Cardinals and 10 Rummy Noses but no other fish were effected. It took me about 3 or 4 months to get my tank back in order.The meds that I used was a combo of Kanaplex,Furan 2 and then I added a UV sterilizer to my system.I don`t have a clue on how my tank got infected.
 
Fawkes21
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
I went through to same problem last year. I lost about 12 Cardinals and 10 Rummy Noses but no other fish were effected. It took me about 3 or 4 months to get my tank back in order.The meds that I used was a combo of Kanaplex,Furan 2 and then I added a UV sterilizer to my system.I don`t have a clue on how my tank got infected.
Oh no! Yes the blue rams and Chinese algae eater seem unaffected, only the tetras.

I only have salt, Metroplex and some Seachem paraguard. Need vet script to get kanaplex.

Do you have any experience with methylene blue? I've read that works and I can get my hands on some.

Also did you treat your whole tank? Not sure whether to remove the healthy fish.

I have a spare uncycled 100l tank I could use.
 
angelcraze
  • #4
It's really hard to try to diagnose columnaris based on the white mouth. I've seen mouths turn white from scar tissue when my tetra bashed into the aquarium glass. The dip in the back could be genetic. Have for parents added anything new lately, like plants, inverts or fish? Anything from the LFS?

I believe Ich has to be introduced, that it doesn't lie dormant or happen spontaneously. There is some controversy about that, but I doubt it is ich if there are no new additions for the last month.

If you do need to, can you order kanamycin from the US?
 
Fawkes21
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
It's really hard to try to diagnose columnaris based on the white mouth. I've seen mouths turn white from scar tissue when my tetra bashed into the aquarium glass. The dip in the back could be genetic. Have for parents added anything new lately, like plants, inverts or fish? Anything from the LFS?

I believe Ich has to be introduced, that it doesn't lie dormant or happen spontaneously. There is some controversy about that, but I doubt it is ich if there are no new additions for the last month.

If you do need to, can you order kanamycin from the US?
Could be scar tissue. Hadn't noticed it before though, plus the dip in the back.

Parents haven't added anything either. One looks it has tiny white spots on the tail. Don't know what could have introduced it, if it is ich. Could be fin rot though they're so small it's hard to tell.

You can get it online but UK antibiotic laws make that difficult.
 
Letsfish
  • #6
Yes I treated the entire tank because that is where the infection was.To tell the truth I`m not 100% sure it was columnaris but the med I used fixed the problem.I think that columnaris is one of those infections that is diagnosed when when we really don`t have a absolute answer, sort of like a GI problem in humans when doctors are stumped they say IBS
 
AquaticJ
  • #7
Coradee may be able to help.
 
Inactive User
  • #8
For columnaris, I think the general sentiment in literature is that it's present in most ecosystems to some extent, and its infection is opportunistic, i.e. it occurs when the fish is already stressed or ill (Austin and Austin, 2007). However, the case with ich - as you wrote - is a lot more unclear.

Oxytetracycle (Terramycin, Liquamycin-100, Tetraplex, Microtet) is recommended against columnaris in my fish disease diagnosis and treatment manual (Noga, 2010). But a cursory search through some UK veterinary pharmacies (e.g. farmacy.co.uk) shows that all the antibiotics require a prescription.

I don't think there's sufficient evidence about methylene's blue effectiveness against bacteria to warrant its use. Noga (2010, p. 406) lists its uses as "preventing infections of freshwater fish eggs" and "treating ectoparasites of freshwater fish" with the caveat that "however, other chemicals have stronger evidence of efficacy".

Noga (2010, p. 415) does recommend the use of a salt dip against columnaris, and it can also be effective against ich. I would try a light dip: 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water, and immerse for 30 minutes.
 
Coradee
  • #9
Hi, sorry there’s nowhere here that I know of to get kanamycin without a vet prescription.
I haven’t used it but have heard of Waterlife Myzaxin used with success
 
DoubleDutch
  • #10
I seriously doubt it is Columnaris.
They are quite overfed btw
Could please place some more pics?
 
Fawkes21
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
For columnaris, I think the general sentiment in literature is that it's present in most ecosystems to some extent, and its infection is opportunistic, i.e. it occurs when the fish is already stressed or ill (Austin and Austin, 2007). However, the case with ich - as you wrote - is a lot more unclear.

Oxytetracycle (Terramycin, Liquamycin-100, Tetraplex, Microtet) is recommended against columnaris in my fish disease diagnosis and treatment manual (Noga, 2010). But a cursory search through some UK veterinary pharmacies (e.g. farmacy.co.uk) shows that all the antibiotics require a prescription.

I don't think there's sufficient evidence about methylene's blue effectiveness against bacteria to warrant its use. Noga (2010, p. 406) lists its uses as "preventing infections of freshwater fish eggs" and "treating ectoparasites of freshwater fish" with the caveat that "however, other chemicals have stronger evidence of efficacy".

Noga (2010, p. 415) does recommend the use of a salt dip against columnaris, and it can also be effective against ich. I would try a light dip: 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water, and immerse for 30 minutes.
Thanks for all that info! I'll look into giving them a salt bath

For columnaris, I think the general sentiment in literature is that it's present in most ecosystems to some extent, and its infection is opportunistic, i.e. it occurs when the fish is already stressed or ill (Austin and Austin, 2007). However, the case with ich - as you wrote - is a lot more unclear.

Oxytetracycle (Terramycin, Liquamycin-100, Tetraplex, Microtet) is recommended against columnaris in my fish disease diagnosis and treatment manual (Noga, 2010). But a cursory search through some UK veterinary pharmacies (e.g. farmacy.co.uk) shows that all the antibiotics require a prescription.

I don't think there's sufficient evidence about methylene's blue effectiveness against bacteria to warrant its use. Noga (2010, p. 406) lists its uses as "preventing infections of freshwater fish eggs" and "treating ectoparasites of freshwater fish" with the caveat that "however, other chemicals have stronger evidence of efficacy".

Noga (2010, p. 415) does recommend the use of a salt dip against columnaris, and it can also be effective against ich. I would try a light dip: 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water, and immerse for 30 minutes.
Thanks for all that info! I'll look into giving them a salt bath
 
Fawkes21
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
I seriously doubt it is Columnaris.
They are quite overfed btw
Could please place some more pics?
Yes, I'm not sure either. 1 of them seems to have a white fluffy thing hanging from their mouth and the other has a white spot? In its mouth hence why thought of columnaris.

It doesn't really close its mouth. Thought maybe it was a jaw injury but hard to tell. It still seems to eat though.

I'll tell my parents to cut down their food and put them on a diet lol
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DoubleDutch
  • #13
Mmmmm difficult to see. Isn't it dermosporidia (looking at the gill and tail)?
Doesn't look like Columnaris to me.
 
Fawkes21
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
Mmmmm difficult to see. Isn't it dermosporidia (looking at the gill and tail)?
Doesn't look like Columnaris to me.
Don't seen any dermosporidae (sp). The neon has a small white spot on its tail. Can't see any worm type things. That's why it Made me think of ich?

I think I'll treat them with a salt bath and some paraguard before starting any heavy treatment.
 
DoubleDutch
  • #15
Okay
Don't seen any dermosporidae (sp). The neon has a small white spot on its tail. Can't see any worm type things. That's why it Made me think of ich?

I think I'll treat them with a salt bath and some paraguard before starting any heavy treatment.
 
Fawkes21
  • Thread Starter
  • #16
Any other treatment course you would recommend? Mainly a goldfish keeper so I'm wary when it comes to tropical fish
 

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