Colomnaris? lymphocystosis?

Chalkpie

Hi, a discolored patch started happening about 14 days ago on my betta. It’s been growing ever since.

The pictures attached show the evolution.

Someone has an idea of what it could be? colomnaris? lymphocystosis?

Many thanks
 

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Fisheye

Consider sending an email to wetwebmedia.com The people responding are scientists and academics. If anyone can make you feel more confident about what is going on with your fish, it's them. Follow the directions about composing your email-they get a lot of contact and don't have time to sift through extraneous information. Include one of your best photos. Good luck.
 

Chalkpie

Consider sending an email to wetwebmedia.com The people responding are scientists and academics. If anyone can make you feel more confident about what is going on with your fish, it's them. Follow the directions about composing your email-they get a lot of contact and don't have time to sift through extraneous information. Include one of your best photos. Good luck.

thanks, my friend
 

Oriongal

It looks like columnaris to me. There's a good sticky thread in this forum for columnaris treatment.

Myself, for this one I probably wouldn't start with the kanaplex/furan treatment, it's extensive enough that more direct treatment of the actual lesions would probably work better.

If you can do it safely, a faster-acting treatment is swabbing the lesions directly with regular (3%) hydrogen peroxide. You must be very careful to not get it into the gills, because it will kill the fish if it makes direct contact with the gills. Have a container with water treated with Prime (specifically Prime) as a backup, Prime will counter the peroxide.

The best way to do this is to hold the fish vertically, nose/head up, so that any excess peroxide will run toward its tail and not the gills. Leave him in the net and swab through it if you're not confident you can hold him securely enough in your hand. He can go right back in the water after the swab.

Swabbing once a day is enough, or just watch and see how it goes the day after the first treatment, and repeat on the 2nd day after if it's not getting better.

If you don't want to chance direct peroxide treatment, you can do a diluted bath instead. I believe directions for that are in the stickied thread (and if not, can find them online.)

A bath with salt and methylene blue (don't use directly in the tank) is often effective, or you can swab the lesions directly with MB as with peroxide. MB is safer, but still try to avoid getting it into the gills.

A bath in potassium permanganate (Jungle Clear) can be effective, look up directions for solution strength as a treatment for columnaris. Don't use it as a swab, or directly in the tank at the strength recommended for a bath.

If you can still find it in a drugstore (most don't carry it anymore, but if they do it'll be in the wound care section with things like betadine and antibiotic ointments), mercurochrome or merbromin can also be used as a direct swab, once a day.

Don't do all of these things, I'm just giving you multiple options based on what you may have on hand, or can get easily.

Above all, make sure your ammonia is zero, nitrites zero, nitrates below 40. Water quality issues are one of the most common reasons for columnaris outbreaks, and removing that stress will give your fish the best chance to fight it off.
 

Chalkpie

Thank you for the reply. The information is greatly appreciated!

A bath with salt and methylene blue (don't use directly in the tank) is often effective

I will try this tonight. I’m afraid of burning him with the peroxide, the lesion is all around his gill.. plus I’m seeing a new tiny spot near/on his mouth today.

How long and at what frequency should I be doing the baths? 15 minutes once a day until improvement? And what quantity of salt and MB should I use? 1 tsp salt/gallon and a few drops of MB?

Also, antibiotics are hardly an option where I live (Canada)- they can only be given by vets. Can’t buy them in stores. I guess I could try ordering directly from the US, but it would take many days/weeks due to the the coronavirus lockdown..

Thanks again for your time and knowledge
 

Oriongal

Generally, 1 teaspoon per gallon of salt for a 30-min bath, and double whatever dosage is recommended on your MB bottle. Once per day, or twice if your fish will tolerate it.

If your fish is distressed you can remove them back to the tank (other than what is normal for your fish, just from being moved temporarily into a new container. If you want to establish for yourself what is normal first, then do a test run in the bath-container for 30 minutes with only tank water. That way you can better identify bath-stress from 'where am I' stress.)

If your fish is tolerating the bath with that level of salt, consider increasing it during the bath; columnaris can be stubborn. The best way to increase it during the bath is to dissolve another measure of salt in a cup/container of tank water (calibrated to your bath-container size, basically doubling the salt dose to 2tsp/gal), and just pour in a little every so often to gradually bring up the salt level in the bath. If the fish shows distress, you can end the bath and do another one later with just the regular amount of salt.

Hopefully it's still fairly superficial. It eats into the flesh as it goes along, and sometimes there's not much you can do even with antibiotics.
 

Chalkpie

Hi.
So here’s a little update:

Consider sending an email to wetwebmedia.com

I did. I got a very helpful reply from Dr. Neale Monks, who confirmed it looked like flexibacter and suggested that I use eSHa 2000, or phenoxyethanol. He also strongly warned against using hydrogen peroxyde- he said it would most likely burn the fish and cause major pain and permanent damage to the tissues. He also confirmed that frequent water changes and salt baths might help.

I wasn’t able to get eSHa2000 or phenoxyethanol, due to the lockdown and to the strict laws in Canada, preventing the sale of ANY fish medication (and antibiotics) without going through a vet.

So I did very frequent small water changes (10%, to avoid stressing the fish), strong methylene blue dips (Dr. Monks said that was likely useless and that he would only recommend MB against fungus, but it’s the only antiseptic I could get a hold of..), and 30m salt baths (2g per liter) once a day in his old 1 gallon tank.

The infection actually got quite a bit worse at first, spreading to the mouth and the fins, but in the he was able to mostly beat it! the lesions on the body are basically gone, and the ones on the fins are getting better.

I do fear that the infection left permanent damage on his gills though. He is still having erratic episodes, followed by lying on the bottom breathing heavily, as well as flushing way to often. It doesnt seem to be because of the water parameters; I check them daily, 0,0,5, gh145ppm, ph 7.6, temp 78- all very stable..

He eats well, and acts very healthy between the episodes. Hopefully he’s not suffering too much, and he will keep being a part of our family for a few more years.

Thanks again Fisheye (and Oriongal) for your involvement, and all the very best
 

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Fisheye

Thank YOU for the amazing followup! I hope things keep going in the right direction. Your betta is very lucky to have you taking care of him.
 

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