Cocky First Timer Kills Fish.

Hey everyone, I know it's a scary title, but this is the sad pickle I have managed to squeeze into right now, I've lurked these forums a little bit but I am an absolute beginner and I am now thinking I should have been a little more prevalent in posting sooner, Anyways, onto my possible emergency situation... (And story thus far...)

About a year ago I stumbled upon some aquascape videos out of the blue on youtube, and had a bit of a binge watch episode for about 3 months (no not a solid 3 months), This turned into a fascination, and soon I caught myself window shopping on the internet over fish tanks, filters, reviews, fish food, fish knowledge, looking at tons of fish, and eventually I started to seriously think about it about 2 months ago.

I almost ordered a little 20 gallon from amazon in the early stages, but I let this urge mature, I wanted bigger, I thought about building my own, looking into prices and things, I started watching dustin's fish tanks, talking about bigger is better, tried finding some acrylic or glass sellers in my area with not much luck, one day I was just driving around a week later and for some reason my brain said "DO IT NOW!", And off I went to a LFS (I considered wal-mart,k-mart, etc. but thought... no.) The nearest LFS being about 2 hours away (I live rural), I expected something grand but I ended up in a possible janky place, The place was pretty dark but I had an urge to fill, and the guy who greeted me was greeted back with a pointed finger at the largest tank they had and said I want that.

It was a 55 gallon, with stand, with a T8 light, and canopy, for $$$. And things might have gone downhill from there, I was giddy, I feel it was at this time I should have loaded it up, took it home, and came onto here for advice, But instead of that I took this old guys advice, Which might be right, maybe wrong, who knows. (you will tell me). We got into some heavy discussion, I let him know I was a noobie and he went around the store pointing things out, explaining this and that (btw after I made 2 trips to haul the aquarium and stand) He stated that those bacteria boosters (bio booster, cycle helpers etc.) were artificial, you would have to keep adding them every time you do a water change, and if you didn't, the tank would crash, fish would die. I had already bought a bottle in preperation to start to cycle my tank (a bottle of fluval cycle booster, 250ml would last 1 week so I was like oh dang), but I was taking this advice on harder than a coffin nail, He explained salt was good for the fish, literally stating what it said on the box (my spidey senses tinged at this point but I was nailed to that coffin lid). Saying all his fish do fine in it. And then he suggested a fish-in cycle, I was perplexed, I hadn't heard about a fish in cycle, He said it's better because it's natural bacteria, you just get a couple hardy fish, and just go with it, so I just hopped on my horse and said heck yeah fish in no time, I said I'd prolly be back another day to get some fish.....

So I get home and set this thing up and just stare at it, it's all naked and bare, I think back on those aquascape videos and I'm thinking piece of cake, I go straight to amazon and order an absolute ton of (censor), 2x fluval c4's extra filters, media, carbon, bio-ring things, extension tubes, foam plasticky covers for the inlets, a powerhead, a 200w fluval heater (with thermo), a couple of nets, (literally) 3 different gravel vacs, prime, aqua plus water conditioner, water test kit (apI master), flourish, stress coat, flourish advance, iron, excel, rocks (I mean man, I bought rocks from the internet)...


I mean you get the idea, I went into this hard...



So i'm sitting at home, have a ton of equipment just strewn around, setting everything up in the tank, I have rocks, no substrate, no fish, no water, So I'm ok... off to the LFS!.

I arrive and the guy has like memory problems, I have to remind him of who I even am but it seems he's all about selling me anything he can, He suggests mollies or some (other forgotten) fish but he's out of them (or they're sick, I don't remember), He points to these guys with black striped on them, Oh yeah, Them Black Skirt Tetra's. I immediately start asking, are they hardy?, are they aggressive? will they cycle? very, no, yes.... I get answers. how many should I get? no more than 1 per 10 gallon, atleast 3... okay 4, is that good, yeah.

cha-ching, my head says "poke, poke" "bruh the substrate, that one thing you didn't order from amazon!" So I look at the guy and i'm like, Oh yeah, uh what substrate do you recommend?, He gets on that sellsman gear again and he's like, Oh pool filter sand, it's great!. I at this point am like no **** way dude... but he shows me, he shows me that all his tanks have this pool filter sand in it, I am the coffin nail again, Will plants grow in it? Oh yeah they grow just fine in just gravel. you mean like no dirt or that eco stuff? yeah that stuff is a (his favorite thing to say here) "scam to make you buy more".


Okay, a little break, I'm getting a little aggressive about this old guy, Maybe he knows what he is talking about, maybe he doesn't, who knows, I sure as **** didn't, but I was eating up everything he had to say, this guy either knew what he was talking about somewhat, or was setting me up for a gigantic profit in the long run, all the previous information I had gathered over months of research had basically went down the toilet, I jumped at all the easy methods, better methods, this different form of communication I was not expecting (not having a level head, lack of sleep, long drive, massive work hours [72+wek] all consumed me to believe!.

Anyways... I walk out of there some aquarium salt, pool filter sand, fish food, 4 black skirt tetras, I get it all in the car, I set my A/C to 76 degrees and head home...

And i'm talking to my fish, which I placed in a 5 gallon bucket (not like, out of the bag, and yes they were bagged, but I was very concerned about the amount of air in the bag), I didn't want light to spook them. but every time I stopped or hit a bumb, I made them know. Jesus I felt like a little kid.

I get home and I get to work instantly, I get everything out, buckets, the rocks, the prime, the conditioner, I start churning that pool filter sand like I need it clean enough to make a solar panel out of it man that stuff is dirty, but it gets done, I start hauling 50lbs of pool filter sand to my aquarium and just start laying it in there like i'm trying to cover up a dead body, man I was excited at this point, I didn't take my time, I didn't slope it or anything, I made a sad attempt at making it flat and threw the rocks in there, and some half-pots I had made as caves, and boom, here comes the water, maybe 30 minutes passed, I throw on the filters and after some difficulty trying to locate the button that tells my brain they need to be primed they roar to life...

Here come the tests, PH ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, oh man my tanks perfect!, the temp is 76.5, perfect I think, in go 4 tetras, and I sit back and stare in this big huge looking tank with 4 little black skirts in it... oh no... my brain... plants man.... plants... green! gotta have plants!...

I test the water a few days later, nothing much all 0 still, okay good!
and... A few days after that... 0 still... hmm?
and roughly a week afterwards... ohh .25 ammonia, okay looking good! 25% water change!

The black skirts dart around the void, a mysterious man looms over them...

plants! plants!

I go to my favourite place and I order plants. (the internet)

I get plants, tons of plants, but I have to work, but plants are wet, they will dry out!...

insane planting of 6-8 species of plants @ 2 each or so is conducted within 6~ minutes...


At this point, I have 4 tetras, in this green splotchy tank of massive bunched up plants, for the black skirt behavior/mood up to here (in a empty tank with just a few rocks) two little guys seemed o.k. but the 2 slightly larger ones were about pitch white, after plants, they were all looking good and dark, but my light was giving them trouble....

I read on here, led's are less stressful, less heat, and make a scheldule, So I do this, I stick to this, Buy a fancy fluval led bar.

Fish are grand, got plants, rocks, some half cave pot things, everything works...


I get greedy, I test waters about a week ago all ZERO, I'm thinking, oh man... did it cycle? I do a little research, I search the web, is it my plants? it's my plants? I think it's my plants, my plants are filtering for me, woo hoo!...

I'm cycled? No I am not it's like I know i'm not, But here I am, I'm getting greedy, I'm sketchy wetchy about that LFS at this point, I order fish online. I get 4 more black tetras, 3 silver flying fox (SAE), and 1 beautiful tiny little 5/8" beautiful serbeI cory cat. It's sent next day air, I cross my fingers for that whole (what maybe 24 hours?), Knock knock... Oh man.. The fish!

I slowly cradle that box and bring it to my room, I let it sit for a while (20-30 min) it's warm, it's hot outside [95F] it's been on a truck for 2 hours [a hot truck] I'm a little concerned about opening it, a little worried, I do it slowly, It's wrapped up in a styro-container and what not, I pull the first baggy out, and oh man look its 4 more black fin tetras, I inspect them as they zoom about in the little bag (I did mind the lights being dark at this time), one is a little beat up, swimming kinda sideways, fin looks like it been pulled out of socket or something, but i'm pleasantly surprised, they seem good, but I spot something worrying, the gills are seriously red, like blood red, I think I began to panic at this point, I get a heat gun, measure the bag, about 4-5 off, and I put it in the tank, I go back to the box and pull out the beautiful sterbei, it's a tiny little guy, I kinda smile at this point but then I realize I don't see him moving at all, I concentrate and look fairly close and barely make out him breathing, or whatever he did with his gills, they are blood red, panic sets in yet again, bag goes in the water, and then back to the box, out come the SAE's, wow they are tiny little things, they are darting around like crazy in the bag and seem perfectly fine ( they prolly had red gills too but were tiny), I let all the bags "Acclimate"(in this usage). and I probably made a fatal error using the "Reverse bag, empty into net, drop into tank" method. I just watched a video of extreme ammonia poison possibility right after exposing a bag to oxygen, so I dumped all 8 fish in this manner.


Lets skip a couple days with an iron dose, excel, the works. Let's go to right about when I got home from work today.

Tank params: (Right Now)

Temp : 76.5F
PH: 7.3~7.6
Ammonia : 0
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : [didn't test]
Filter: 2x c4 power fluval (media,carbon,bio ring, spoinge pad)
Aeration?: 600 powerhead
therm: 200W fluval E series
substrate: POOL FILTER SAND?
Plants: quite a bit I think?

Stock: (Before last night/this morning)
8 Black Skirts
3 Silver Flying Fox SAE
1 SterbeI Cory Cat.

Stock: (Now)
8 Black Skirts
2 Filver Flying Fox
0 SterbeI Cat.







This is my first disaster.




I walked in from work, excited to play find the sterbeI game, I turn on the room light, do some things around the house and come back to turn the dI'm main light on, I scoot down to the tank and start looking to find mr. sterbs, I find him almost instantly, I'm excited, he's finally found his cave! But what? What he's on his side? what's he doing? I freak out, I go no, No, Not me?! I grab my gravel vac immediately I poke around that damned pool filter sand near his... body it's not moving, What?! NO!. I promptly accept the fact that well, Mr.Sterbs is probably dead... I give him the alien abduction retrieve, welp, I inspect Mr.sterbs closely, His gills are like, blood freaking red, like they exploded almost, I eye my damned black skirts, No y'all didn't!, No problems for like 3-4 days guys! Why pick on Sterbs!, I eye around and get worried, I do a head count, and I can't find one of the SAE's... He's not far from Sterbs, All little and lifeless... Alien abduction... so small I can't really see anything.




Basically. I'm a noob. A beginner. Inexperienced.

I know you guys might be angry at me, skipping steps, not asking for help, for advice, I'm one cocky dude who thought could do it all alone, But now I'm asking, What's wrong with my tank, Yeah, It's not cycled, I got aggressive since I used plants, Got 0 readings, thought I could go balls out, Well, Guys, Help me out, I'm thinking my black skirts killed them, I'm thinking maybe I had a aroxic gas in that cave thing (sterbs and the SAE died near that cave) I'm thinking that **** pool filter sand did it, And I'm also thinking, That freaking salt killed both of them!, Maybe the acclimation? Maybe the ammonia in the bags? Heck, maybe I just need an air-stone (old LFS guy said they do nothing), What do you guys think my battle plan is here on out, I've already done myself A gigantic favor and sought better advice on a broader scale (LFS in the rural area is no good).


~SCP

 

This read like a good book. I laughed, I cried, I saw myself doing basically everything you did minus that long drive. There are 2 types of people when it comes to starting a tank. Those who admit they did stupid things and those that lie about it. The pool sand is great. I'm rocking it in my tank right now and actually have a post about switching up the look of my tank with pictures of it. My single plant is doing great in it. I actually just added moss and some legos yesterday, too. I didn't buy the biggest tank I could off the bat. I wish I had, but at least now I have a 16 gallon tank outside and a 29 inside. I have not kept tetras but I have heard they are fin nippers. Though to be honest the gills sounds like ammonia poisoning. I still have 2 of the original 6 mollies that I used to cycle my tank. Some people use fish to cycle and others cycle an empty tank. I personally prefer using fish, but everyone is an expert in their own home. Welcome and good luck with your tank!

 

P_20170622_071045

• Shadowcatprime
• Jun 22, 2017

Mr.Sterby.

P_20170622_072626

• Shadowcatprime
• Jun 22, 2017

On of the SAE's, The black stuff, is... sadly his eyeball I think, he seems more deteriorated than sterbs... maybe he died first?

55t1

• Shadowcatprime
• Jun 22, 2017

The 55 6.22.17

my tank right now...

 

That's a lot of text! If I miss any of your questions, please let me know. For pool filter sand, as long as it was 100% silica it's fine. In fact I use/used it in several of my tanks. You'll just need to add root tabs for any root feeding plants. Salt isn't necessary and should only be used for medical in my opinion. Next time you acclimate(although in this scenario, you didn't do to bad. The person who shipped them seems to have been the one who messed up) don't dump the water in and I suggest adding water in from the new tank slowly. Also add a drop of prime to nuetralise ammonia. To me it sounds like the fish died from ammonia poisoning in the bag and could survive the effects of it. Can you give me a list of all the fish you have and your exact parameters? Do you use prime? Also, do you have a liquid test kit?

 

I think your basically a noob that just pushed the gas pedal. Your not the first timer that has done this.

I think you need to slow down and check your water, your tank might not be ready and ammonia might be the cause. I would check and be prepared to make water changes to keep up until your tank is officially ready.

As for pool filter sand, I think it's a great substrate, cheap and looks good, depending on who you talk to.

Keep asking questions. People here will help.

 

That's a lot of text! If I miss any of your questions, please let me know. For pool filter sand, as long as it was 100% silica it's fine. In fact I use/used it in several of my tanks. You'll just need to add root tabs for any root feeding plants. Salt isn't necessary and should only be used for medical in my opinion. Next time you acclimate(although in this scenario, you didn't do to bad. The person who shipped them seems to have been the one who messed up) don't dump the water in and I suggest adding water in from the new tank slowly. Also add a drop of prime to nuetralise ammonia. To me it sounds like the fish died from ammonia poisoning in the bag and could survive the effects of it. Can you give me a list of all the fish you have and your exact parameters? Do you use prime? Also, do you have a liquid test kit?

I'm not sure it was 100% silica, I wasn't even aware that was a meaningful parameter of this particular substrate to consider, But it's good to know I wasn't sold some sort of snake oil, I did think about root tabs, and I think a few of my plants need them, but the water filtery ones (idk the technical term) are doing amazing and growing about 2-5 inches a day, I got a little angry when I read a post a little while ago saying that salt is basically bad all around unless you need it, I think I left that part out, I think I used 5 tablespoons of salt, I thought it would disolve, but it just stays lumped up on the substrate (makes me think maybe sterbs sucked some up), I bought the fish from liveaquaria, It seemed to be the best site, but maybe it's not, or maybe it's just a terrible time to ship fish, I didn't add the water from the bags, I emptied them upside down into a net over a 5 gallon bucket and got them in the tank as fast as I could (that DIY fish guy showed this method and said he had no problems), I was so thinking about adding prime to the bags and drip acclimating but maybe I made a rash decision since I saw how red the gills were. Would it be possible for them to die from the poisoning 3-5 days after I put them into the tank if that's what happened?.

List of fish right now are 8 black skirt tetras, 3 SAE (silver flying fox) and well that's it.

I removed Sterby as soon as I could, and a little later the SAE, They died in a lower flow area of my tank (I have since bought another powerhead, as I think my current setup is silly anyway, near two caves (sterb died inside of it), I bought some test strips (purely for kh and that other one the master kit doesn't have, so I don't have those params atm.)

Ammonia is 0
Nitrite is 0
Low range PH showed as blue as it gets (7.6)
I will test Nitrate and High-range PH now. (I have to test low and high range since it's usually between the high of the PH and the lowest brown of the high range. I think those rocks have something to do with this?

I do use prime, and yes, liquid test kit.

 

Yea they can die days later. Though honestly I don't see how they could have built ammonia so high so quickly. They were probably ill before being shipped.

 

Welcome to FishLore! I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. Not because of your problems, but because you're a good story-teller. Great use of humor.

Anyway, I've actually seen worse noob stories than yours! I don't think you started off TOO awful bad. It does sound like ammonia poison so it's odd to me that your readings say 0 ammonia. Did you get Seachem Prime when you raided Amazon? If not, get some ASAP. It conditions your water, dechlorinates it and detoxifies ammonia, nitrites etc. You'll probably be doing lots of water changes to help your cycle along without poisoning your fish. Seachem Stability will help with that, although I've never really used it.

You'll surely get some better responses with detailed step by step instructions, so hang tight. I think AllieSten does a fantastic job at explaining things.

Good luck! You'll get there.

 

I think they're called column feeders, could be wrong on that as I'm not super knowledgable on plants. I'd remove the salt from the tank, if you do decide to add salt or need to for a medical purpose, make sure to mix it in a bucket with aquariums water first. Also, only add in as much as you took out with waterchanges as it doesn't leave the aquarium on its own. The decision to put them in quickly wasn't necessarily a bad one, the sooner you could get them out of that water the better IMO, but for non-emergencies I'd do drip. Live aquaria tends to not be that great with their fish from what I understand. How many fish were in each bag? Ammonia can build up quickly in bags, I believe cories can release a toxin as well. As Geoff said, your honestly not doing that bad, it just sounds like you got bad stock and few not great instructions from the LFS. Your tank is beautiful by the way.

 

I'm an almost one month in noob too! I didn't even lurk before purchasing my tank; I just gave in to a 5 year old's request. Thank goodness I at least researched enough to know not to purchase a goldy. I'm still cycling and learning lots on here - the people are wonderful! Also - so far I have only been to a chain store because I am afraid of " being nailed to the coffin" by a LFS owner. Thanks for the good read, I'm following this thread!

 

Yea they can die days later. Though honestly I don't see how they could have built ammonia so high so quickly. They were probably ill before being shipped.

Maybe, They looked bad out of the bag, And the surviving tetras still look terrible, the gills are still quite red, and I think the one who got nipped or ripped up might not make it since he/she is doing the worst, I don't expect this will be the end of my fish deaths, but the original 4 tetras I put in are looking great and I can easily determine which ones came from where (LFS or Internet), I thought Liveaquaria was the most reputable place (Or perhaps, the most in media control)

Welcome to FishLore! I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. Not because of your problems, but because you're a good story-teller. Great use of humor.

Anyway, I've actually seen worse noob stories than yours! I don't think you started off TOO awful bad. It does sound like ammonia poison so it's odd to me that your readings say 0 ammonia. Did you get Seachem Prime when you raided Amazon? If not, get some ASAP. It conditions your water, dechlorinates it and detoxifies ammonia, nitrites etc. You'll probably be doing lots of water changes to help your cycle along without poisoning your fish. Seachem Stability will help with that, although I've never really used it.

You'll surely get some better responses with detailed step by step instructions, so hang tight. I think AllieSten does a fantastic job at explaining things.

Good luck! You'll get there.

Well I'm tired and I get a little long winded when i'm this way coming off work, I'm glad i'm not the worst noob on the planet I figure one of those would do a mass fish kill more times than enough before or if even seeking any help, I've included a picture of tests I just did to confirm this, I haven't added prime in a couple days, Is the LFS guys story about bio boosters true (it being artificial and if you don't keep using it the tank would have to re-cycle, crash?). I have fluval cycle on hand but not stability.
Thank you.

I think they're called column feeders, could be wrong on that as I'm not super knowledgable on plants. I'd remove the salt from the tank, if you do decide to add salt or need to for a medical purpose, make sure to mix it in a bucket with aquariums water first. Also, only add in as much as you took out with waterchanges as it doesn't leave the aquarium on its own. The decision to put them in quickly wasn't necessarily a bad one, the sooner you could get them out of that water the better IMO, but for non-emergencies I'd do drip. Live aquaria tends to not be that great with their fish from what I understand. How many fish were in each bag? Ammonia can build up quickly in bags, I believe cories can release a toxin as well. As Geoff said, your honestly not doing that bad, it just sounds like you got bad stock and few not great instructions from the LFS. Your tank is beautiful by the way.

Yes, that's what I was looking for in my braincase of words, The salt would be hard to remove there must be 135~ un-dissolved granules in there, I'm almost considering dumping all of it if it wasn't the fact nobody pointed fingers at my tetras or the pool filter stuff (I know, horrible). The sterb's went out of stock as soon as they shipped it, maybe I got the worst one, but the tetras looked like dooky too and some are acting strange, but hopefully they get better (I got more so they would leave my SAE and cat alone so i've heard, then I read cats do well in schools and so do the SAE in larger numbers, so I was really pushing that GAS pedal); As for how many in a bag, All the tetras were in a pretty small bag, the cat in a tiny bag, and so were the SAE, When I say tiny, I mean no bigger then the LFS guy put my tetras in but they only went for a couple hours wait compared to what L.A. put them through (dimensions about 6"x4"x8" 1/4 water tetras, a little smaller for the SAE and the cory.

Thanks

 

Forgot the test picture. My bad.

1498144417127294899400

• Shadowcatprime
• Jun 22, 2017

High ph, ammo, nitrite, nitrate.

 

Seachem Stability and Tetra SafeStart Plus are good bacterial additives, but they work differently. In your case, Stability would probably be better. The rest are no good and some require you to add regularly to maintain your cycle. Ideally, once you're cycled, you don't want to have to keep adding bacteria.

 

Yeah, that's to many fish in a bag like that. I'm really thinking that they got ammonia poisoning on the way.. I'd be doing daily wtaerchanges and sucking up the salt while doing them. The waterchnages should hopefully help with them healing from the poisoning. It's strange to me you've got zero one all your readings, but that may just be because you don't have to to many fish and a good amount of plants, would just keep an eye on it. You are correct the cores and SAE need schools, 5 is the minimum, but more is preferred an better.

 

Thank you for your post. I apologize for your troubles. Some people (myself included) do things like this. I did very similar and early on had many failures because I thought I knew better or listened to bad advice. But the cool thing is that you definitely learn form those mistakes instantly.

Some Observations from your post
Salt and Cory's or scaleless fish should not mix.
Pool Filter Sand is awesome I love it and use it and yes it grows plants. However you need to use root tabs. Then you will really grow plants.
Once you have one tank setup life gets so much easier. Once that tank is cycled properly store extra filter media if you can inside the filters. If you start another tank you just add that extra media to the new tank and repeat the process down the road.

Welcome to the Hobby. It does get better. the only thing that never gets easy is losing a fish.

 

Seachem Stability and Tetra SafeStart Plus are good bacterial additives, but they work differently. In your case, Stability would probably be better. The rest are no good and some require you to add regularly to maintain your cycle. Ideally, once you're cycled, you don't want to have to keep adding bacteria.

If I knew this before the LFS guy said if I used any bacterial additive my tank would crash I would have went this route, It seems since I added plants all my params stick to 0, This was also another little nitro-boost to push that gas pedal to get more fish, I figured I would never cycle since I didn't have enough bio-load in the tank because I wasn't showing any ammonia after I did ( and read that plants pretty much take ammonia,nitrite, and nitrate out of the water to grow and convert it to whatever they want ), I also considered removing the carbon from the filters as I read it removes ammonia?, Do I need an air stone? My tetras seem to get kind of antsy when I don't feed air to the powerhead and make those little bubbles.

 

Sorry to hear about your fish but it was a great read.

I agree with the above that is sounds like Ammonia that killed the fish you got. Probably doing the quick dump and plop into the tank was the best thing you could do.

I've been doing an 'fish-in ' cycle on my 55 gallon tank with no plants. I have some advantage in that my son has a 10 gallon tank so I took some of his used filter media and rocks and put them into mine to jump start the bacteria.

You'll have to do what I did. Test the water daily. Sometimes twice a day and do lots of water changes. I changed the water daily for about a week to keep the ammonia down. 30%-50% each time. Test and change... test and change. Those darn 5 gallon buckets get heavy!

Best of luck! Your tank does look nicer then mine if it's any consolation.

 

Yeah, that's to many fish in a bag like that. I'm really thinking that they got ammonia poisoning on the way.. I'd be doing daily wtaerchanges and sucking up the salt while doing them. The waterchnages should hopefully help with them healing from the poisoning. It's strange to me you've got zero one all your readings, but that may just be because you don't have to to many fish and a good amount of plants, would just keep an eye on it. You are correct the cores and SAE need schools, 5 is the minimum, but more is preferred an better.

I thought so, When I see some "Fish unbaggings" on Youtube the bags are usually giant and it might be just a few fish or a medium sized one, I expected a large box to arrive but it was quite small really considering what was inside, What % WC do you recommend I start with? Should be noted I did a 40% change roughly a couple hours before I got the fish in the mail.

I read somewhere (here, maybe.) salt helps with ammonia poisoning, but maybe I was just searching a broader term like "Red gills" or something and stumbled upon some bad information, I didn't add any more salt though after reading this since I had already read Pleco's and salt don't mix at all and I figured the same carried over to cory's somewhat. The 0 readings are throwing me off too, which is another reason I bought strips, in case for some reason my kit went bad (exp date is 2022 though!) Would only having 1 cory stress it out too much and die? (General consensus is ammo poison but for future ref. did the ammo poison + solo cory change anything?);

Thank you for your post. I apologize for your troubles. Some people (myself included) do things like this. I did very similar and early on had many failures because I thought I knew better or listened to bad advice. But the cool thing is that you definitely learn form those mistakes instantly.

Some Observations from your post
Salt and Cory's or scaleless fish should not mix.
Pool Filter Sand is awesome I love it and use it and yes it grows plants. However you need to use root tabs. Then you will really grow plants.
Once you have one tank setup life gets so much easier. Once that tank is cycled properly store extra filter media if you can inside the filters. If you start another tank you just add that extra media to the new tank and repeat the process down the road.

Welcome to the Hobby. It does get better. the only thing that never gets easy is losing a fish.

I was surprised after I was finished even thinking about that LFS again (Well, AT MOST the fish I was sold are doing great) that he didn't offer me any sort of seeded media at all; Makes me remember that he said (And of course I did) that the first bag of tetras I bought and put in I added the water from the bag aswell. Is this good advice (He said never do it again though) or was this some hook line and sinker method thing. Also about the pool filter sand, it's really more like pool filter gravel, maybe it's the same thing, I'm not sure.

 

Sorry to hear about your fish but it was a great read.

I agree with the above that is sounds like Ammonia that killed the fish you got. Probably doing the quick dump and plop into the tank was the best thing you could do.

I've been doing an 'fish-in ' cycle on my 55 gallon tank with no plants. I have some advantage in that my son has a 10 gallon tank so I took some of his used filter media and rocks and put them into mine to jump start the bacteria.

You'll have to do what I did. Test the water daily. Sometimes twice a day and do lots of water changes. I changed the water daily for about a week to keep the ammonia down. 30%-50% each time. Test and change... test and change. Those darn 5 gallon buckets get heavy!

Best of luck! Your tank does look nicer then mine if it's any consolation.

It's fine, I will continue to learn and grow, And be less stubborn.
That's good news that I did and tried to do something right out of this, almost makes it seem like I haven't messed up at all just got unlucky. (Other than the case of going full on balls out afterburner into the sun with this thing)

Makes me ask the question should a cycle be done with or without plants, because I keep thinking that the plants are sucking up all my ammonia and i'm failing to jump start (or even pull-start) this cycle at all anymore.

I mean is it possible to have a impossible cyclable tank (dumbest question ever.)

I'm lucky to have placed the aquarium right in front of my window, I just gravel vac it out the back with the hose and fill it back up all thru my window

Thanks for the luck, I'm hard pressed to assume my tank looks this good after a 6 minute planting job, although all the filter feeders are growing like nuts (even though I "planted them" in the substrate )

 

Not sure if aquarium salt would help with this, I'd think daily water changes would work well e enough, but others my chime in as I haven't personally had this. I'd do 50% water changes until they seem better. Of course you can vary the % sometimes if you need too, can be a bit less or a bit more. just nothing above 75% and wouldn't recommend anything less than 25%. For the short period you had the Cory, I doubt the stress of being alone had much if anything to do with it. I wouldn't recommend adding the water, that advice isn't necssarily bad, but isn't good either. There's just not much use to it, I think he was saying to do that so that they could get used tp the new parameters, but in a 55 that wouldn't help much.

 

If it means anything, I also have a pond snail ( I think ) outbreak when I added the plants, At most I have considered adding some assassin snails, As for the current behavior of the "internet bought" tetras they seem sickly, sticking to the bottom of the tank (like maybe half an inch from the substrate), I have a very high feeling the one that probably got messed up bad from shipping (or nipping in that bag) will die soon aswell, as she/he has a very pale mouth, although other colors are fine, extra extra freaking long side fins on it though, I want it to stay alive, WC's incoming!.

Not sure if aquarium salt would help with this, I'd think daily water changes would work well e enough, but others my chime in as I haven't personally had this. I'd do 50% water changes until they seem better. Of course you can vary the % sometimes if you need too, can be a bit less or a bit more. just nothing above 75% and wouldn't recommend anything less than 25%. For the short period you had the Cory, I doubt the stress of being alone had much if anything to do with it. I wouldn't recommend adding the water, that advice isn't necssarily bad, but isn't good either. There's just not much use to it, I think he was saying to do that so that they could get used tp the new parameters, but in a 55 that wouldn't help much.

I wish I read about the AQ salt being medicinal only before I threw it in the tank, I didn't even look up what was compatible, This is by no means good for me, I didn't think I'd like the cory but now I want a school of them.

Also he specifically stated to add the water from the bag to my tank, I was confused, but did it anyway.

 

I'd not change the water a lot for now until ammonia starts to build up. Since the fish are out of the bags and into the clean water the emergency should be over.

I'm not sure about the plant thing. I hear what you are saying. Maybe someone else can chime in.

Note: the aquarium being in front of the window can help cause algae. Could save on lighting though.

 

He was right that you shouldn't do it again, but if there was no other fish, it isn't really bad. I know I've accidentally added bag water to my tank before(usually with only fish though), but its not something you want to risk doing intentionally. Seriously fish is a good place to start with compatibility, but we also have some good stockers here so if you want help with stocking, just let us know! Can you post a photo of the tetra? What does the paleness look like? Are you sure there's nothing on the mouth?

 

I'd not change the water a lot for now until ammonia starts to build up. Since the fish are out of the bags and into the clean water the emergency should be over.

I'm not sure about the plant thing. I hear what you are saying. Maybe someone else can chime in.

Note: the aquarium being in front of the window can help cause algae. Could save on lighting though.

There are blackout drapes for it, I get to decide how much light comes in if at all

 

This is one of the internet fish, showing similiar signs as the one mentioned before, but that one is being extremely skiddish and I can't get a good picture, I am noticing that my original 4 tetras + the healthiest internet one are schooling together while either avoiding the others or the others are basically dying, gills are very red hanging out at the bottom and not moving (last 2 hours) (but alive), original tetras look great. The mouths on 3 of the internet tetras look bloated and almost clear (like what happens to plants)

 

That's really strange... Hopefully they don't have a disease. Does it by chance look something like mouth rot? It concerns me that more than one has it, but hopefully its nothing.

 

That's really strange... Hopefully they don't have a disease. Does it by chance look something like mouth rot? It concerns me that more than one has it, but hopefully its nothing.

If it does it's already really bad or it's just stressed (maybe I just thought it was super stressed since it's the tore up one in the tank) all my original 4 tetras are schooling alone now, and (I know this is weird) but coming up to the side of the tank I'm looking in and staring at me for awhile and swimming off, The same thing they did when I turned on the T8 light they hated and would stare at me until I turned it off, Maybe they know something is wrong with the others.

 

Is there anyway you could move the sick tetras out(you could use a large tubberware)? I think it may be best to quarantine them from the others in case they do have something.

 

HI there! Welcome to Fishlore. A couple of things. First you need to pick up some Seachem Prime and a bottled bacteria. I use Seachem Stability, but dr Tim's one and only or API QuickStart are also very good ones. Then we can begin your fish-in cycle.

Blackskirts are very hearty. They will also tell you with color changes if something is wrong in the tank. I have 9 in my tank, and they are definitely moody. But that can be a good thing. Usually when they are pale it isn't necessarily illness, more like stress. So I wouldn't pull it out if the tank just yet. Wait and watch.

Seachem Prime is a must have for fish-in cycling. It detoxifies ammonia, nitrites, & nitrates up to 1ppm for 24-48 hours. It is also a dechlorinator and a stress coat. It is essential for good fish keeping in my opinion.

Once you have Prime and a bottled bacteria, follow this formula. It will help get you cycled.

I would start out by doing a large water change. 50-75%, and vacuum very well. then your tank will be at a very good starting point. Dose your Prime & Stability (bottled bacteria). Then retest parameters in 24 hours. Follow this formula.

Ammonia + Nitrites = less than 1ppm. Dose Prime for your full tank volume and add stability. Recheck parameters in 24 hours
Ammonia + Nitrites = 1ppm or more do a 50% water change, add full tank volume dose of Prime & Stability. Recheck parameters in 24 hours

The goal of the water change is to get your Ammonia and nitrites below 0.5ppm so you may need to do more than a 50% water change.

Prime dose is 0.1ml per gallon. 1ml per 10 gallon. For 55 gallons that is 5.5ml.

Please ask tons of questions. We have all been there. I killed tons of fish before I finally did some research. I've had my tanks for 3 years and only since January have I been successfully keeping fish. So you are ahead of the curve by coming here so quickly. We will definitely help you get there.

Good luck!

 

His current problem (or "problem") is that he's not getting any ammonia at all. He thinks the plants are taking it in before it can build up at all.

 

Very well written post, it made me almost laugh until I realized I am in the same boat as you, that is new to the hobby hoping my fish live through the cycle and hoping that mis/un informed decisions don't come back to bite me. Hopefully your fish get better I was thinking about ordering through the mail but had concerns although I'm sorry what happened to your fish I'm glad I read this so I don't soon make the same mistake as that could have been likely.

 

His current problem (or "problem") is that he's not getting any ammonia at all. He thinks the plants are taking it in before it can build up at all.

There will still be some ammonia in the tank, it is just at lower levels than the test can read. He will still be able to cycle with plants. Lots of people do it. It may take a little longer, but it will still happen.

Ohhh and one more thing. If you are using excel.. stop. It has antibacterial properties. You won't be able to get your tank cycled using that for a fertilizer. (Just learned that this week actually)

 

richvalle you are doing water changes with buckets?? Get a python ! Best water changing gadget around. It literally siphons/vacuums and refills the tank by turning on your tap water. No buckets in sight. Worth every penny I spent on it.

 

Do I need an air stone? My tetras seem to get kind of antsy when I don't feed air to the powerhead and make those little bubbles.

If you have enough surface agitation from your filter, an air stone shouldn't be necessary. What filter do you have? I use one because I have a canister filter where the water outtake is below the surface, so there isn't really any surface agitation. The air stone keeps the water oxygenated and plus my school of sterbaI corys love playing in the bubbles.

 

richvalle you are doing water changes with buckets?? Get a python ! Best water changing gadget around. It literally siphons/vacuums and refills the tank by turning on your tap water. No buckets in sight. Worth every penny I spent on it.

Sigh, I know. I need to extend my expenses out over time and a $5 bucket was a lot cheaper. It's on the list of things to get, thanks.

 

Two more casualties today when I got off work, one more SAE dead, and one of the tetras. The clear mouth problem has seemed to subside a bit in the remaining (3) internet tetras, but one now has a strange growth coming off it's top fin, almost like a parasite (looks too big to be ich) it's the one with the longer side fins that got tore up really bad.

In any good news, a friend from work has let me know of a petco around a little 20 extra minutes south of that janky pet store, it's definitely better than this terrible online fish experience, Out of 8 fish ordered, 4 have died, I won't be ordering from them again, and time will tell if any more of these die considering the depriciating health of them.

One good note is that the ammonia poisoning is starting to let go a little bit, before I left for work I moved my powerhead around a little bit and set it wide open for maximum bubbles, I also purchased a air pump and some hose, it's a two output fluval, I just have 1 wood bubble maker thing, might plug one end up if I can and set it in this morning. (Edit, it works with 1, putting off an insane amount of bubbles)

Amazon shipment came in, hikarI pellets, shrimp pellet food for the now dead sterby, I guess the last SAE might eat it, I doubt it though, I have test strips aswell as liquid, 0/0 on nitri/ate, gh is 0-30, and kh is between 40-80.


Going to setup the other powerhead. Then another WC

Ive included pics; the deceased, and the one tetras with the growth.

 

Sorry about this bad experience, not all online stores are like that though, so hopefully someday you can try one of the better ones. does the white spot look fuzzy? Does it move at all? Glad the poisoning is getting a bit better.

 

That.... Must have cost so much money

 

Sorry about this bad experience, not all online stores are like that though, so hopefully someday you can try one of the better ones. does the white spot look fuzzy? Does it move at all? Glad the poisoning is getting a bit better.

I'm done with online, By the sounds of this petco they have about 300 tanks or so, I'll be going there from here on out most likely, I heard to avoid big stores, but friend said it was great and clean, a ton different than the nearest LFS, purely going for fish, I doubt seachem stability would match the amazon price, which I've already ordered.

If you have enough surface agitation from your filter, an air stone shouldn't be necessary. What filter do you have? I use one because I have a canister filter where the water outtake is below the surface, so there isn't really any surface agitation. The air stone keeps the water oxygenated and plus my school of sterbaI corys love playing in the bubbles.

Not sure if I have enough or not, I have 2 fluval c4 power filters, I will have plenty once I hook up the second powerhead for sure though, I should have jumped the gun on the fx4, but that's for a later time.

There will still be some ammonia in the tank, it is just at lower levels than the test can read. He will still be able to cycle with plants. Lots of people do it. It may take a little longer, but it will still happen.

Ohhh and one more thing. If you are using excel.. stop. It has antibacterial properties. You won't be able to get your tank cycled using that for a fertilizer. (Just learned that this week actually)

I did not know that about excel, I will stop dosing it.

Very well written post, it made me almost laugh until I realized I am in the same boat as you, that is new to the hobby hoping my fish live through the cycle and hoping that mis/un informed decisions don't come back to bite me. Hopefully your fish get better I was thinking about ordering through the mail but had concerns although I'm sorry what happened to your fish I'm glad I read this so I don't soon make the same mistake as that could have been likely.

Someone has to eventually come out and spill the beans, I hope fewer follow my mistakes from my post, Online ordering seemed great, but after the 30~$ shipping charge for a current 40% or so survival rate, it's not a good option, if at all imo at this time, I mean, a hardy black skirt tetra died this morning from the poisoning, If I had ordered a whole school of anything or expensive fish i'd be out on every single one.




Anyways, I hope I can make it to petco tomorrow and back to get enough sleep for work, I hear they have good sales on tanks, and if possible I will try to pick up something small for a hospital tank, If any of my internet order fish contaminate my original 4 I'll be extra angry, I don't have anything suitable to house them in right now, and my 5 gallon bucket I was thinking about using split pretty bad earlier (sun rot probably), buy another too, just for general purpose stuff ( I use it to replace a smaller amount of water in the tank from evap), I have to run the tank with atleast 1 hood open considering the heat/humidity buildup.

 

Sorry about this bad experience, not all online stores are like that though, so hopefully someday you can try one of the better ones. does the white spot look fuzzy? Does it move at all? Glad the poisoning is getting a bit better.

Sorry, didn't fully answer this, It is pretty fuzzy with a point, I've included a terrible illustration. It's weird, doesn't seem to be moving.