Co2 helping stunted jungle val and Java fern?

I have a 5 1/2 gallon tank with some juvenile crypts, Val and red root floaters. I set it up about a week and a half ago. (It has organic potting soil capped with fluval stratum). I had it going for three days then decided to add diy co2 with sugar yeast and baking soda. It’s been a week and there has been substantial growth with my floaters, a new leaf on each of my crypts and each juvenile Val plant has shot out 2 runners. (There is barely any co2 coming out) so I was wondering if I got a diy setup for my 55 gal if it would help my Val because it’s been stunted since I got it and will only send out runners. Also here’s the mix I use for the 5 gal…

2tsp yeast
2tsp baking soda
7tsp sugar
2 cups warm water

 

There are different things that could cause stunting, lack of adequate CO2 is just one of them. Therefore, adding CO2 will only help you if lack of CO2 is your problem.

If you have hard water, I think it's unlikely the vals are lacking carbon. Vals are able to get carbon from carbonates in the water.

 

My water isn’t very hard although I do add aquarium coop easy green fertilizer 2 times a week and half a dose of it. Some weeks it’s a half dose of easy green and half dose of seachem flourish because it’s a bit higher in iron. I can’t seem to keep my nitrates up which may be some of the problem? They are usually at like 0-2 so I have started dosing more ferts

 

My water isn’t very hard although I do add aquarium coop easy green fertilizer 2 times a week and half a dose of it. Some weeks it’s a half dose of easy green and half dose of seachem flourish because it’s a bit higher in iron. I can’t seem to keep my nitrates up which may be some of the problem? They are usually at like 0-2 so I have started dosing more ferts

If Aqarium coop fertilizer isint doing the job try just the seachem correct me if im wrong but I think its more concentrated which might be good for the plants

 

My water isn’t very hard although I do add aquarium coop easy green fertilizer 2 times a week and half a dose of it. Some weeks it’s a half dose of easy green and half dose of seachem flourish because it’s a bit higher in iron. I can’t seem to keep my nitrates up which may be some of the problem? They are usually at like 0-2 so I have started dosing more ferts

Well, from what I've read (not personally tested) most stunting of aquarium plants comes from inadequate CO2/carbon. The rest is usually a complete lack of some nutrient or the presence of some toxin or pest. Given Vals are one of the plants that can get carbon from carbonates, I was questioning if CO2/carbon was your issue. But given you indicated you have soft water, I now think inadequate CO2 is probably the most likely cause.

Keep in mind this is just a guess though, as I've not personally dealt with this.

If it turns out that it is an issue with CO2/carbon, another option could be to lower your lighting. If your lights are less intense, your plants will have less demand for carbon at any given time. You'll have slower growth, but you may fix the stunting issue.

Another possibility that occurs to me is that your plants might simply be unhealthy. If this is the case, it could be caused by any number of things...even too little light.

Pictures might be helpful.

 

I can provide pics tomorrow because the lights are off now, I do believe they are healthy because u see a new runner every day or two and they are a nice green and grow very fast but once they get like 4-5 inches they stop

 

Whoop, misread the OP and thought the val was in the 5.5 gallon. My bad.

Anyways, CO2 can boost the val's growth, but you will need to add extra ferts to support that increased growth. In fact, maybe try adding a higher concentration of ferts to the val's tank before trying the CO2.

 

Are you adding root tabs or have an aqua soil as part of your substrate? Vals are root feeders and won't really get much from liquid ferts. They can do well with only liquid ferts but they really need nutrients right at the roots. Mine didn't grow well untill i started adding root tabs. I use thrivec aio liquid and thrivec root tabs. I switched to that from ez green and haven't had any issues with any plants. Keep In mind i have no co2 in any tanks. This still might not be the problem you're having and could be the co2 issues stated before.

 

I have easy root tabs from aquarium coop but I’m thinking of switching over because they don’t seem to have done much. I was thinking of going with seachem flourish tabs but are there any better tabs?
Also I can get pictures after school

 

I have easy root tabs from aquarium coop but I’m thinking of switching over because they don’t seem to have done much. I was thinking of going with seachem flourish tabs but are there any better tabs?
Also I can get pictures after school

Thrivec works best for me. My vals and swords took off after switching from seachem to thrive. Never used the aqcoop ones but the ones i tried from h20plants and marcusfishtanks worked out pretty well too.

 

Thrivec works best for me. My vals and swords took off after switching from seachem to thrive. Never used the aqcoop ones but the ones i tried from h20plants and marcusfishtanks worked out pretty well too.

Do you ever have troubles with the thrive tabs floating? Also does their liquid fert have enough iron to support red plants? Here’s a pic of the tank and valis. the one super tall val I bought like a week ago to see how it would do so that one actually hasn’t grown that tall from my tank I bought it that big.

 

No issues with red plants. Iron will give better reds but, you don't necessarily need it to achieve nice red colors. It's more about lighting. This is my 40 breeder.




I have a dwarf tiger lotus and some ludwigia natans super red. Both grow well and show decent reds with the lights i have.
I'm using a finnex planted plus 247 hlc and a cheap nicrew led to get this look. The root tabs float if they are not in the substrate deep enough. So long as you press them down to the bottom or most of the way, you shouldn't have an issue.
Your vals don't look bad, i do see the algae in question. How long in your lighting on for? Also, i switched to thrive because i felt the ez green was causing an algae issue and since i switched, i see way less algae in all my tanks. Other ferts might still work out better for you, but it doesn't hurt to try. I even did half the recommended dose of ez green and reduced light time by half and still had problems. This isn't to knock ez green. It works and has done fine for others on here with no issues. My plants just didn't want it, The algae did.

 

No issues with red plants. Iron will give better reds but, you don't necessarily need it to achieve nice red colors. It's more about lighting. This is my 40 breeder.View attachment 836567 View attachment 836570View attachment 836571

I have a dwarf tiger lotus and some ludwigia natans super red. Both grow well and show decent reds with the lights i have.
I'm using a finnex planted plus 247 hlc and a cheap nicrew led to get this look. The root tabs float if they are not in the substrate deep enough. So long as you press them down to the bottom or most of the way, you shouldn't have an issue.
Your vals don't look bad, i do see the algae in question. How long in your lighting on for? Also, i switched to thrive because i felt the ez green was causing an algae issue and since i switched, i see way less algae in all my tanks. Other ferts might still work out better for you, but it doesn't hurt to try. I even did half the recommended dose of ez green and reduced light time by half and still had problems. This isn't to knock ez green. It works and has done fine for others on here with no issues. My plants just didn't want it, The algae did.

My lights are on just about the highest setting and I have them on for 8 and a half hours a day. I was looking at the thrive fertilizer and it says to use for ph 7 and under. Mine is 7.8. Do you think it’s still ok to use? If not I will try the seachem ferts. Also the thrive fertilizer has like 5 times the iron compared to ez green so that should help my red root floaters since they aren’t super red. Also I was considering the thrive tabs or the seachem flourish tabs although I hear some say that they don’t dissolve. And some say they are the best they have used. Also on the subject of lighting I was thinking of lowering it but increasing the amount of time. Do you think this would help at all? Maybe decrease it to medium lighting for like 9-9 1/2 hours? And do you think that would effect any reds?
Also I have a hygger planted light

 

My lights are on just about the highest setting and I have them on for 8 and a half hours a day. I was looking at the thrive fertilizer and it says to use for ph 7 and under. Mine is 7.8. Do you think it’s still ok to use? If not I will try the seachem ferts. Also the thrive fertilizer has like 5 times the iron compared to ez green so that should help my red root floaters since they aren’t super red. Also I was considering the thrive tabs or the seachem flourish tabs although I hear some say that they don’t dissolve. And some say they are the best they have used. Also on the subject of lighting I was thinking of lowering it but increasing the amount of time. Do you think this would help at all? Maybe decrease it to medium lighting for like 9-9 1/2 hours? And do you think that would effect any reds?

I can't answer on the ph question but, decrese either the time, or brightness, not both. Decreasing one and increasing the other would have no change i would think. The seachem tabs do disolve. I never had a problem with them but suspect they might work better in higher ph. I have softer water of around 6.8-7. Thrive could still work but i say try seachem tabs first. Keep In mind that this could still be a co2 issue. If so, I'll let others answer for you as i have no experience with co2.

 

Sor

I can't answer on the ph question but, decrese either the time, or brightness, not both. Decreasing one and increasing the other would have no change i would think. The seachem tabs do disolve. I never had a problem with them but suspect they might work better in higher ph. I have softer water of around 6.8-7. Thrive could still work but i say try seachem tabs first. Keep In mind that this could still be a co2 issue. If so, I'll let others answer for you as i have no experience with co2.

Sorry but I think you may have misunderstood. The liquid fertilizer said 7 ph. The tabs didn’t say. Although it may have only been the thrive + that wants 7 ph. I’m gonna try to raise my nitrates to around 10ppm instead of zero with my seachem flourish before adding co2. I’ll also take 45 minutes off my lights and see if that helps.

 

I can't answer on the ph question but, decrese either the time, or brightness, not both. Decreasing one and increasing the other would have no change i would think. The seachem tabs do disolve. I never had a problem with them but suspect they might work better in higher ph. I have softer water of around 6.8-7. Thrive could still work but i say try seachem tabs first. Keep In mind that this could still be a co2 issue. If so, I'll let others answer for you as i have no experience with co2.

So here is a puzzle for you that we are all curious about. Italian Vals THRIVE in my tank....like crazy seaweed thrive. Why is this? These are my water parameters...

Ph 8.2
KH 9
GH 15
Temp 77
Thrive C liquid fert NO root tabs.
Fluval Aquasky 2.0 light Ramp up ramp down 7 hours full boar 100% light.
No CO2

We are curious why they dont grow in softer water.

 

Might have to give them a go some time

 

So here is a puzzle for you that we are all curious about. Italian Vals THRIVE in my tank....like crazy seaweed thrive. Why is this? These are my water parameters...

Ph 8.2
KH 9
GH 15
Temp 77
Thrive C liquid fert NO root tabs.
Fluval Aquasky 2.0 light Ramp up ramp down 7 hours full boar 100% light.
No CO2

We are curious why they dont grow in softer water.

I'm not sure why they wouldn't grow in softer water. My ph in all my tanks stays closer to 6.8 and they grow well in my breeder(back right in previous post) but not seaweed fasti never really measure kh/gh and temp stays at 79. I keep my lights on for about 8-9 hourse at 100% with the sunrise/sunset features. I do have to trim them once a month. also using thrivec but i put root tabs under all of my root feeders, including the vals. They might need the higher ph to do as well as yours but they should be able to grow at least close to neutral ph. Any softer than that, i unfortunately have no experience.
Maybe there's nutrients that don't work as well with softer water than harder and there for the vals are lacking what they need with only the liquid fert? The roottabs would put the nutrients right to the plant rather than in competing with other plants for nutrients through the water column? I'm not an aquatic horticulturist by any means, and I'm pretty sure i purchased my vals from you too be honest. But maybe this is why they wouldn't grow in softer ph?

 

Have any of you ever tried pogostemmon stellatus broad leaf?
Also would it be beneficial to get seachem flourish and another one in their liquid fertilizer line? Ex, advance,iron,excel.

 

Have any of you ever tried pogostemmon stellatus broad leaf?
Also would it be beneficial to get seachem flourish and another one in their liquid fertilizer line? Ex, advance,iron,excel.

Excel is just a co2 booster which will kill your vals in no time.
As for the rest, I stick with all in one ferts. I don't have the time to figure out which individual macro/micro my tanks need so I'll let someone more experienced with the seachem line take that one.

 

Yeah I was just looking at the stuff I’m thinking with going with either the normal thrive or thrive+ I’m just a bit scared about thrive+ wanting a lower ph. But it does say it’s good for high tech tanks and with co2 that would be good. It’s also very high in iron with my pogostemmon would like and my red r floaters.
Also I heard people would dose thrive every day but in small amounts. Have you ever tried this?

 

Yeah I was just looking at the stuff I’m thinking with going with either the normal thrive or thrive+ I’m just a bit scared about thrive+ wanting a lower ph. But it does say it’s good for high tech tanks and with co2 that would be good. It’s also very high in iron with my pogostemmon would like and my red r floaters.
Also I heard people would dose thrive every day but in small amounts. Have you ever tried this?

I dose weekly with each water change. Never daily but others might dose their tanks differently. What I've found with this hobby is that you literally are throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what sticks and what bounces.

 

that seems to be true. I like to does like 2 days after water change so my water conditioner dosent break down the metals in it

 

that seems to be true. I like to does like 2 days after water change so my water conditioner dosent break down the metals in it

I wouldn't worry much about the water conditioner. I mix my water in a bucket with api stresscoat plus/stresszyme plus, the fertilizer and in my tanks with no vals, api co2 booster all at once, Never had an issue.

 

that seems to be true. I like to does like 2 days after water change so my water conditioner dosent break down the metals in it

I always mix my ferts in the bucket when filling back up too.

 

I use a python water changer and seachem prime conditioner

 

I use a python water changer and seachem prime conditioner

Ok If I had a Python I would dose the Prime then when it was full add my ferts. The conditioner doesnt harm the ferts.

 

That’s what I do sometimes I just thought that the prime will dilute the iron because it’s supposed to get rid of metals

 

So here is a puzzle for you that we are all curious about. Italian Vals THRIVE in my tank....like crazy seaweed thrive. Why is this? These are my water parameters...

Ph 8.2
KH 9
GH 15
Temp 77
Thrive C liquid fert NO root tabs.
Fluval Aquasky 2.0 light Ramp up ramp down 7 hours full boar 100% light.
No CO2

We are curious why they dont grow in softer water.

Vallisnarias can use KH to get their carbon, so they don't need CO2 (at least not to the same degree). Soft water doesn't have much if any KH, so their only remaining option is to get it from CO2. So, if there is not enough CO2 in a soft water tank, they may struggle.

The liquid fertilizer said 7 ph. The tabs didn’t say. Although it may have only been the thrive + that wants 7 ph.

Most nutrients become less available to plants at higher pH levels. Although I don't remember reading this on the bottle before, I suspect this is why Thrive may recommend using it at pH 7. I find this a little odd though, as nutrient uptake hits its sweet spot when conditions are just slightly acidic. Still, I've used Thrive in tanks with higher pH just fine. I just use more than they recommend.

I’m gonna try to raise my nitrates to around 10ppm instead of zero with my seachem flourish before adding co2.

Flourish is a bit light on macronutrients. I'd stick with your Thrive to do this.

I’ll also take 45 minutes off my lights and see if that helps.

Personally, I've had more success sticking to 7-8 hours of light and then adjust your intensity from there.

 

Vallisnarias can use KH to get their carbon, so they don't need CO2 (at least not to the same degree). Soft water doesn't have much if any KH, so their only remaining option is to get it from CO2. So, if there is not enough CO2 in a soft water tank, they may struggle.


Most nutrients become less available to plants at higher pH levels. Although I don't remember reading this on the bottle before, I suspect this is why Thrive may recommend using it at pH 7. I find this a little odd though, as nutrient uptake hits its sweet spot when conditions are just slightly acidic. Still, I've used Thrive in tanks with higher pH just fine. I just use more than they recommend.

Flourish is a bit light on macronutrients. I'd stick with your Thrive to do this.

Personally, I've had more success sticking to 7-8 hours of light and then adjust your intensity from there.

I don’t have thrive fertilizer that was my issue. Also it was only the thrive plus that said a ph 7 and lower
Since diy co2 on a 55 gallon is pushing it could I add one system on each side? The only problem is one would be coming out an air stone and not a co2 diffuser so it wouldn’t be optimal b ur might help a bit.

 

I don’t have thrive fertilizer that was my issue. Also it was only the thrive plus that said a ph 7 and lower
Since diy co2 on a 55 gallon is pushing it could I add one system on each side?

Do you mean one DIY CO2 system on each side? If so, yes, you can do that. In fact, DIY CO2 can be a chore to keep stable; having more systems might help even things out.

The only problem is one would be coming out an air stone and not a co2 diffuser so it wouldn’t be optimal b ur might help a bit.

If you can afford it, I highly recommend using pressurized CO2, it is so much easier and more reliable than DIY CO2 systems.

 

I was thinking of getting pressurized eventually but I want to try diy first

 

With a 55 gallon tank, you need a large bottle of yeast/sugar water. May I recommend that you use a 1 gallon jug. Or use two 2 liter bottles.

Scale your recipe up by about a factor of 8.

It does take a large bottle to get C02 into a 55 gallon. But it will work great!


Experiment with the amount of yeast you put in too. Smaller amounts of yeast tend to make the culture last a lot longer.

Also fresh yeast is much better than dry if you can find it at your local deli.

 

Do you have any good guidelines to follow
On measurements?
Also one of the systems will use two 2 liter bottles with a citric acid baking soda mixture the other with yeast and sugar and baking soda

With a 55 gallon tank, you need a large bottle of yeast/sugar water. May I recommend that you use a 1 gallon jug. Or use two 2 liter bottles.

Scale your recipe up by about a factor of 8.

It does take a large bottle to get C02 into a 55 gallon. But it will work great!


Experiment with the amount of yeast you put in too. Smaller amounts of yeast tend to make the culture last a lot longer.

Also fresh yeast is much better than dry if you can find it at your local deli.

Do you think the citric acid and baking soda is better than the yeast and sugar or is it opposite?

 

I tried the baking soda method and found that it is fussy and high maintenance and does not last as long as yeast. I use yeast and sugar water and it takes me 5 minutes to set up and runs for a month. I just give the bottle a little shake once in a while.

The key is the recipe and using only a small amount of yeast with lots of sugar, so the culture lasts a long time. It is like wine making. Takes experience. It is very dependent on the exact yeast that you use. The rookie mistake is to add too much yeast.

My recipe is close to this:

1 quart plastic bottle (approx equal to 1 liter)
1 cup of sugar
1/4 teaspoon dry yeast. (or 1/2 teaspoon fresh yeast which is better and lasts longer)
1/4 teaspoon baking soda
Water to fill bottle half way.

Shake it up well to dissolve everything.

Double this for a 2 liter bottle.

 

Alright thanks how many bps would you guess I should have for this tank?

 

2-3 bubbles per second would get you going.

 

Alright thanks how many bps would you guess I should have for this tank?

Not all bubbles are the same size. So, it's best to get a drop checker and go by that.

 

For decades we had thriving plants with yeast and soda bottles and no drop checkers. Just watch your plants and fish and set the C02 accordingly.

I have never over-gassed an aquarium using yeast and sugar water.

I don't have any drop checkers on my yeast systems. They just run wide open.

When using the C02 pressurized canisters you need to control the system carefully since you can easily gas your fish to death. So measuring C02 levels is important with pressured gas.

 

Not all bubbles are the same size. So, it's best to get a drop checker and go by that.

I do not have a drop checker

For decades we had thriving plants with yeast and soda bottles and no drop checkers. Just watch your plants and fish and set the C02 accordingly.

I have never over-gassed an aquarium using yeast and sugar water.

I don't have any drop checkers on my yeast systems. They just run wide open.

When using the C02 pressurized canisters you need to control the system carefully since you can easily gas your fish to death. So measuring C02 levels is important with pressured gas.

would you recommend a drop counter for the citric acid mix