Clean up crew/pest control?

saltwater60

Well Known Member
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
876
Points
123
What type of snails? Also you can’t just pick fish because they are cheap. They have to work with your system. I 100% agree Christmas wrasse is a bad idea. I didn’t see that. They get fairly big at 5” and are super active.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

christopher27

Valued Member
Messages
72
Reaction score
7
Points
18
Experience
5 years
saltwater60 said:
What type of snails? Also you can’t just pick fish because they are cheap. They have to work with your system. I 100% agree Christmas wrasse is a bad idea. I didn’t see that. They get fairly big at 5” and are super active.
Im fully aware I cant get a Christmas wrasse, they grow to big, are very active and are not always reef safe. The snails I was thinking would be cerith and trochus (probably with a shrimp) and I know I can't just choose fish based on price but also id rather not spend too much on fish and rather spend on equipment and corals,.
 

Jesterrace

Well Known Member
Messages
3,072
Reaction score
1,205
Points
198
Experience
3 years
christopher27 said:
Im fully aware I cant get a Christmas wrasse, they grow to big, are very active and are not always reef safe. The snails I was thinking would be cerith and trochus (probably with a shrimp) and I know I can't just choose fish based on price but also id rather not spend too much on fish and rather spend on equipment and corals,.
Trochus are excellent snails and can flip themselves over if needed. Cerith are okay as well.
 

saltwater60

Well Known Member
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
876
Points
123
You’ll probably only need a few snails each. 5-6 of each should be good for your size tank. Then see how it goes and add a few others if needed.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

christopher27

Valued Member
Messages
72
Reaction score
7
Points
18
Experience
5 years
saltwater60 said:
You’ll probably only need a few snails each. 5-6 of each should be good for your size tank. Then see how it goes and add a few others if needed.
Ok, sounds good. I might get fewer snails and get 3-4 scarlet hermit crabs and an urchin instead, still deciding. Since an engineer goby and pink streaked/possum wrasse are in the plans. Would you recommend a mandarin dragonet? Ive heard they are somewhat difficult to care for and need a very well established tank. If I did get one I would wait 1-2 years and have a refugium with some chaeto first (probably just a standard filter with a grow light) because I heard copepods and other micro invertebrates breed in macro algae. Is this enough? How do you measure copepod populations? Do either of the other fish eat a lot of them?
 

saltwater60

Well Known Member
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
876
Points
123
I would say no way on the mandarin. They pretty much solely eat pods. If you did it with a refugium that fuge would have to be huge like bigger than you current tank. I had one in a 75 gallon with about 89 lbs of love rock.
 

Jesterrace

Well Known Member
Messages
3,072
Reaction score
1,205
Points
198
Experience
3 years
saltwater60 said:
I would say no way on the mandarin. They pretty much solely eat pods. If you did it with a refugium that fuge would have to be huge like bigger than you current tank. I had one in a 75 gallon with about 89 lbs of love rock.
Agreed. I had one in a 36 gallon bowfront, spent a few hundred on pods, had it adapt to frozen, target fed it with a turkey baster at least 2x per day and it still starved to death in 3 months. All other fish would out compete it for food even if I turned off the powerhead and dropped the food a couple of inches from it's mouth. With Mandarins the larger the tank that is pre-prepped with a healthy breeding pod population, the better your chances of success with them.
 

saltwater60

Well Known Member
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
876
Points
123
Jesterrace said:
Agreed. I had one in a 36 gallon bowfront, spent a few hundred on pods, had it adapt to frozen, target fed it with a turkey baster at least 2x per day and it still starved to death in 3 months. All other fish would out compete it for food even if I turned off the powerhead and dropped the food a couple of inches from it's mouth. With Mandarins the larger the tank that is pre-prepped with a healthy breeding pod population, the better your chances of success with them.
Awesome fish the problem is they pick all day. One little bit here and there. So you’d have had to feed it frozen foods say 10 times daily. The one I had lasted several years off a mature 75 with lots of rock, a sump with a good amount of rock and a fuge.
 

Jesterrace

Well Known Member
Messages
3,072
Reaction score
1,205
Points
198
Experience
3 years
saltwater60 said:
Awesome fish the problem is they pick all day. One little bit here and there. So you’d have had to feed it frozen foods say 10 times daily. The one I had lasted several years off a mature 75 with lots of rock, a sump with a good amount of rock and a fuge.
Exactly, I laugh every time I see folks talk about how they are going the easier route by getting a captive bred one that is adapted to frozen. Adapting to frozen is only part of the problem, it still doesn't address their need to feed near constantly during the waking hours. The easiest method by far is what you did.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

christopher27

Valued Member
Messages
72
Reaction score
7
Points
18
Experience
5 years
Jesterrace said:
Exactly, I laugh every time I see folks talk about how they are going the easier route by getting a captive bred one that is adapted to frozen. Adapting to frozen is only part of the problem, it still doesn't address their need to feed near constantly during the waking hours. The easiest method by far is what you did.
[/QUO
No go on the mandarin? that's unfortunate... Any other dragonets that might work? (forgot to mention but the refugium will be a hang on back or maybe even 2) I know to get anything that relies on copepods I need an established, healthy, breeding population. Hopefully dosing zooplankton might help with breeding. Would a 40 gallon be better? Or work at all...?
 

saltwater60

Well Known Member
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
876
Points
123
christopher27 said:
No go on the mandarin? that's unfortunate... Any other dragonets that might work? (forgot to mention but the refugium will be a hang on back or maybe even 2) I know to get anything that relies on copepods I need an established, healthy, breeding population. Hopefully dosing zooplankton might help with breeding. Would a 40 gallon be better? Or work at all...?
No to any type of dragonet and no a 40 gallon wont help you get a dragonet. A 40 will be better overall so yes the 40 is better for other aspects.
Even with a 40 and 2 small refugiums you won’t produce enough pods for a dragonet. They use a lot of energy and need food constantly.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

christopher27

Valued Member
Messages
72
Reaction score
7
Points
18
Experience
5 years
saltwater60 said:
No to any type of dragonet and no a 40 gallon wont help you get a dragonet. A 40 will be better overall so yes the 40 is better for other aspects.
Even with a 40 and 2 small refugiums you won’t produce enough pods for a dragonet. They use a lot of energy and need food constantly.
ok, guess im not getting a dragonet,maybe if I upgrade it can be on my wishlist. How about a dottyback with the pink streaked wrasse and engineer goby? would that be at all compatible?
 

saltwater60

Well Known Member
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
876
Points
123
christopher27 said:
ok, guess im not getting a dragonet,maybe if I upgrade it can be on my wishlist. How about a dottyback with the pink streaked wrasse and engineer goby? would that be at all compatible?
Should be good.
 

Jesterrace

Well Known Member
Messages
3,072
Reaction score
1,205
Points
198
Experience
3 years
christopher27 said:
ok, guess im not getting a dragonet,maybe if I upgrade it can be on my wishlist. How about a dottyback with the pink streaked wrasse and engineer goby? would that be at all compatible?
Engineer Goby I would not recommend as they get huge and are technically an eel so they will easily outgrow that tank and tend to eat small fish as they grow. They will also make a colossal mess in your tank and reach a foot in length (or are you confusing it with a Diamond Watchman Goby)? Dottyback with a Pink Streaked Wrasse would be a bad idea, even with an orchid as the Orchid is likely to bully it in that size of a tank with a Pink Streaked tankmate. A Basslet (ie Royal Gramma) would be a much better choice for a tankmate and will give you a similar shape and color as a Bicolor Dottyback.

Just for clarification this is the Engineer Goby:

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+31+165&pcatid=165
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

christopher27

Valued Member
Messages
72
Reaction score
7
Points
18
Experience
5 years
Jesterrace said:
Engineer Goby I would not recommend as they get huge and are technically an eel so they will easily outgrow that tank and tend to eat small fish as they grow. They will also make a colossal mess in your tank and reach a foot in length (or are you confusing it with a Diamond Watchman Goby)? Dottyback with a Pink Streaked Wrasse would be a bad idea, even with an orchid as the Orchid is likely to bully it in that size of a tank with a Pink Streaked tankmate. A Basslet (ie Royal Gramma) would be a much better choice for a tankmate and will give you a similar shape and color as a Bicolor Dottyback.

Just for clarification this is the Engineer Goby:

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+31+165&pcatid=165
I know about the engineer goby, its technically not a goby and is similar to an eel. That's why I want one. And why I don't want any other bottom dwellers (If I had decided to get a dragonet I wouldn't have gotten one) If there will be aggression between the dottyback and the pink streaked I could do without the dottyback. Guess ill just get a firefish or cardinal instead.
 

Jesterrace

Well Known Member
Messages
3,072
Reaction score
1,205
Points
198
Experience
3 years
christopher27 said:
I know about the engineer goby, its technically not a goby and is similar to an eel. That's why I want one. And why I don't want any other bottom dwellers (If I had decided to get a dragonet I wouldn't have gotten one) If there will be aggression between the dottyback and the pink streaked I could do without the dottyback. Guess ill just get a firefish or cardinal instead.
The problem is that with the smaller fish and what will ultimately be a cramped tank the engineer will be a problem as it grows. They reach a foot in length and are recommended for a tank no smaller than 55 gallons and can eat smaller fish and can create serious stability problems for your rockwork in a tank of that size. I'm always of the opinion that predators and regular fish shouldn't be mixed as it often ends up with a loss of some great fish. Now if you wanted to set it up as a predator tank and get something like a Fu Manchu Lion and get an Engineer Goby that is a bit larger that would be a different story although the tank is still too small for one long term.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

christopher27

Valued Member
Messages
72
Reaction score
7
Points
18
Experience
5 years
Jesterrace said:
The problem is that with the smaller fish and what will ultimately be a cramped tank the engineer will be a problem as it grows. They reach a foot in length and are recommended for a tank no smaller than 55 gallons and can eat smaller fish and can create serious stability problems for your rockwork in a tank of that size. I'm always of the opinion that predators and regular fish shouldn't be mixed as it often ends up with a loss of some great fish. Now if you wanted to set it up as a predator tank and get something like a Fu Manchu Lion and get an Engineer Goby that is a bit larger that would be a different story although the tank is still too small for one long term.
Update: I might be going with the red sea reefer 170 which is 34 gallons, I did more research and learned about the radial filefish, which are now a part of my plan. The final plan is
1-2 radial filefish
Pink streaked wrasse (possum wrasse if I can find a decent price or springers damsel if I cant find either)
Orange spotted goby
Firefish
Any incompatibility issues you see? (the cuc will likely be trochus snails, scarlet hermit crabs, and a tuxedo urchin)
 
Toggle Sidebar

Aquarium Calculator

Follow FishLore!





Top Bottom