Child Proof Fish - Page 2

  • Thread Starter

fastraver

Member
Fahn said:
fastraver in all seriousness check these out, these would be perfect:

That is a cool idea. Booked marked and will show the wife.
 

Fahn

Member
scarface said:
Hey, don’t judge me. I saw you suggest wild discus
Did I say that? Oh, I'm sorry...

I meant SS-grade pure-red-line crystal shrimp.
 
  • Thread Starter

fastraver

Member
WinterSoldier. said:
I know this is going to sound terrible. But please don't get him a tank. I work with mental disabled people and I wouldn't give fish to them. Fish are delicate, and I wouldn't intentionally put them in a 'child proof' situation. Please think of the poor fish.
It is not terrible. It is the truth. I have thought it. The reason I was going to try hardy fish. He likes horses, cats,dogs and such. He is pretty good with his service dog.
 

Handelma

Member
fastraver said:
Due the movie and a thorn in my side, Finding Nemo. Gold fish are an out. I have a toad in a 20 long and he has no interest in it what so ever. As per wife, lack of water.

Never had a frog before. Might look into that.

I have had Danios, and they did survive as dither fish in my cichlid tank. But the point of the swimming a lot is very true.

I think neon tetras or guppies. That might work.
Neon tetras might be better suited for a 20 in a school. White Cloud Mountain Minnow are tiny fish that you can school in a 10 gallon. As for guppies, they will reproduce a lot for a 10 gallon, and all males will likely fight in a 10 gallon.

In my opinion, a single betta in a 5 gallon, with maybe a snail or some shrimp is the way to go.
 
  • Thread Starter

fastraver

Member
If I get live bearers. The off spring goes into my treat farm for my Cichlids. Oh they love the little treats I send them.

But the Hexbug is pretty freaking cool. I think the wife will like that idea more. Due to no heater, filter and if he drops a cookie in there. It is all good.

Also it does not need to be secured.
 

Francine

Member
WinterSoldier. said:
Yes I know he can do what he wants, but mentally disabled people don't understand that fishies don't like cookies, or not to touch something, regular children can grasp that, I just think that its a bad idea
I do think that is an AWFUL comment... I started out as a DSW for years and I now have my doctorate in psychology...

To deprive a mentally disabled child of having a fish or frog when there are NUMEROUS solutions to prevent the fish/frog/whatever from being harmed is awful to say!!

As I mentioned there are so so many ways that’s this can be done safely.... get a betta and a 5 gallon tank... build a shelf up higher for the stand so that he can’t just put stuff in but can still see the fish.... simple... and problem solved....
Most men who are “handy” would be able to rig up a lid that locks or that he can not open..or again even reach but still see.... there is absolutely NO reason in my professional opinion why this child can not have a fish....
 

Fahn

Member
Francine said:
I do think that is an AWFUL comment... I started out as a DSW for years and I now have my doctorate in psychology...

To deprive a mentally disabled child of having a fish or frog when there are NUMEROUS solutions to prevent the fish/frog/whatever from being harmed is awful to say!!

As I mentioned there are so so many ways that’s this can be done safely.... get a betta and a 5 gallon tank... build a shelf up higher for the stand so that he can’t just put stuff in but can still see the fish.... simple... and problem solved....
Most men who are “handy” would be able to rig up a lid that locks or that he can not open..or again even reach but still see.... there is absolutely NO reason in my professional opinion why this child can not have a fish....
Think about it this way though...

Start the kid off with the HexBug Fish. They do not need to be fed, need no filter, heater, or weekly water changes. They are impossible to kill. Because there is no learning curve, mistakes can be made without the issue of dead fish and more maintenance.

Use them as a teaching tool to build good habits and practices. Let him understand through mock-behaviors and practice how to feed and care for real fish. Maybe introduce hardware such as a filter eventually to build upon these concepts.

Once good habits are established, introduce a hardy, easy fish as a first real fish, such as guppies or a betta.

This isn't insulting anyone's intelligence. This isn't belittling a child with a disability. It is a real solution to helping a child take steps towards being on equal footing with the rest of the crowd as far as our hobby goes. I would honestly recommend this to any parent wanting to introduce fish-keeping to a very young or disabled child.
 

Crazycoryfishlady

Member
Twinkle said:
You aren't supposed to have frogs with a kid under five due to salmonella risks.
They never said their childs age nor did they say he was 5 or under.


Handelma said:
Neon tetras might be better suited for a 20 in a school. White Cloud Mountain Minnow are tiny fish that you can school in a 10 gallon. As for guppies, they will reproduce a lot for a 10 gallon, and all males will likely fight in a 10 gallon.

In my opinion, a single betta in a 5 gallon, with maybe a snail or some shrimp is the way to go.
I wouldn't go woth a betta, they're not as hardy as some of the other fish, and aren't as cheap to replace if something does go wrong.

I was also thinking about a handful of ghost shrimp because others mentioned shrimps.
Mine are really active and swim around like crazy.

They sell minnows and guppies and danios as feeder fish sometimes, you might be able to get your hand on some neon tetras as feeders even.
Otherwise neons will be cheapest next to ghost shrimp.

The hex bug is also a good idea.

He has a doggy?!?! I miss my service dog.

I also want to say, when I was a child I had really bad aspergers autism, I would take things that weren't mine, do all sprts of crazy things.
To recount my past and my pet keeping accidents, here's some things to keep in mind.

I used to try to release then catch neighbors birds/dogs/rabbits, I wasn't allowed these animals so other people owning them meant I was going to do what I want with them.
I used to try to keep fish, turtles, frogs, bird eggs, and other creatures like lizards snakes and bugs.
I used to try to hatch chicken eggs we bought from the store, I would warm them up in my bed under a big stuffed animal.
My neighbor had a goldfish pond that I loved!
One day I stole some of his fishfood and a fish....
I caught his goldfish, put it in a 1 gallon tub and tried to care for it.
What a horrendous sight...
I left the goldfish outside my tree and frontdoor knowing my family wouldn't let me keep it or give it a pond.
Big mistake, it was summer, the smaller the container of water, the higher it heats.
So even though the fish was in water in the shade, the water still got well over 80+ and ended up killing it. So I had a pet goldfish for a week before it died.
I used to catch frogs and try to feed them caught grasshoppers, that didn't work at all.
I used to feed spiders, which did work and I still feed them lol
My friends had mice and so did my borther, my friends used to put their mice out in the pool and let them swim, so I thought my brothers mouse could swim too.
I decided it was dirty and needed a bath....
Soapy water in a bucket, 0 mice later...

Now I'm no longer diagnosed as autistic, but I still have aspergers and social issues, there's a lot of things we have to learn a lot slower than the gen. population.
We have to deal with our tormented heads before we learn right from wrong. There's so much going on inside the mind of thr troubled...
But if you have someone help them, guide them, show them the right thing to do, they learn.
No one showed me how to care for the pets, and since no one let me help, I helped on my own.
When kids and adults like that are asled to help, they get really excited.
No one asks them for any kind of help usually.
It's very important for them to learn, even if they are learning the hard way.

Perhaps you could even reward him.
For each bugfish he keeps alive, he could get a real one.
But only if he feeds them right everyday, and helps you out with something.

While I was working at my store, a boy came in and had a fit... It was so sad. Everyone around him had no idea what to do, the younger workers who have never dealt with anything like him before just followed him... I'm sure it was frightening to be followed while having an outburst.
Luckily I was quick and thought of a distraction. I ran across the store, grabbed a sample cookie and showed it to him.
I kinda waved it and asked if he wanted a cookie.
He went from screaming acrying to whispering cookie so fast.... No one knew what happened, they just knew he became quiet.
He quickly learned, if he sees me and behaves when he does, then he gets a cookie.
If he's screaming and runs past me, no cookie til he stops screaming.

I feel if you teach and reward your son, it could help him a lot with responsibility. Especially if he has no job or chores around the house.
And in my honest opinion, getting fish for him is better than any other small alternative animal that he could take out and play with.
As we've seen by my post, rodents are a good one to stay away from.

I would say lizards and frogs are too since they have the ability of being held in the hand, which may make him want to touch them and grab them.

Fish we watch and feed, that's it.

Let us know what you go with! I hope he learns to care for his new pet well!
I love that you're doing this for him.
 

Bryangar

Member
Crazycoryfishlady said:
They never said their childs age nor did they say he was 5 or under.




I wouldn't go woth a betta, they're not as hardy as some of the other fish, and aren't as cheap to replace if something does go wrong.

I was also thinking about a handful of ghost shrimp because others mentioned shrimps.
Mine are really active and swim around like crazy.

They sell minnows and guppies and danios as feeder fish sometimes, you might be able to get your hand on some neon tetras as feeders even.
Otherwise neons will be cheapest next to ghost shrimp.

The hex bug is also a good idea.

He has a doggy?!?! I miss my service dog.

I also want to say, when I was a child I had really bad aspergers autism, I would take things that weren't mine, do all sprts of crazy things.
To recount my past and my pet keeping accidents, here's some things to keep in mind.

I used to try to release then catch neighbors birds/dogs/rabbits, I wasn't allowed these animals so other people owning them meant I was going to do what I want with them.
I used to try to keep fish, turtles, frogs, bird eggs, and other creatures like lizards snakes and bugs.
I used to try to hatch chicken eggs we bought from the store, I would warm them up in my bed under a big stuffed animal.
My neighbor had a goldfish pond that I loved!
One day I stole some of his fishfood and a fish....
I caught his goldfish, put it in a 1 gallon tub and tried to care for it.
What a horrendous sight...
I left the goldfish outside my tree and frontdoor knowing my family wouldn't let me keep it or give it a pond.
Big mistake, it was summer, the smaller the container of water, the higher it heats.
So even though the fish was in water in the shade, the water still got well over 80+ and ended up killing it. So I had a pet goldfish for a week before it died.
I used to catch frogs and try to feed them caught grasshoppers, that didn't work at all.
I used to feed spiders, which did work and I still feed them lol
My friends had mice and so did my borther, my friends used to put their mice out in the pool and let them swim, so I thought my brothers mouse could swim too.
I decided it was dirty and needed a bath....
Soapy water in a bucket, 0 mice later...

Now I'm no longer diagnosed as autistic, but I still have aspergers and social issues, there's a lot of things we have to learn a lot slower than the gen. population.
We have to deal with our tormented heads before we learn right from wrong. There's so much going on inside the mind of thr troubled...
But if you have someone help them, guide them, show them the right thing to do, they learn.
No one showed me how to care for the pets, and since no one let me help, I helped on my own.
When kids and adults like that are asled to help, they get really excited.
No one asks them for any kind of help usually.
It's very important for them to learn, even if they are learning the hard way.

Perhaps you could even reward him.
For each bugfish he keeps alive, he could get a real one.
But only if he feeds them right everyday, and helps you out with something.

While I was working at my store, a boy came in and had a fit... It was so sad. Everyone around him had no idea what to do, the younger workers who have never dealt with anything like him before just followed him... I'm sure it was frightening to be followed while having an outburst.
Luckily I was quick and thought of a distraction. I ran across the store, grabbed a sample cookie and showed it to him.
I kinda waved it and asked if he wanted a cookie.
He went from screaming acrying to whispering cookie so fast.... No one knew what happened, they just knew he became quiet.
He quickly learned, if he sees me and behaves when he does, then he gets a cookie.
If he's screaming and runs past me, no cookie til he stops screaming.

I feel if you teach and reward your son, it could help him a lot with responsibility. Especially if he has no job or chores around the house.
And in my honest opinion, getting fish for him is better than any other small alternative animal that he could take out and play with.
As we've seen by my post, rodents are a good one to stay away from.

I would say lizards and frogs are too since they have the ability of being held in the hand, which may make him want to touch them and grab them.

Fish we watch and feed, that's it.

Let us know what you go with! I hope he learns to care for his new pet well!
I love that you're doing this for him.
That’s a longggg reply
 
  • Thread Starter

fastraver

Member
Francine said:
I do think that is an AWFUL comment... I started out as a DSW for years and I now have my doctorate in psychology...

To deprive a mentally disabled child of having a fish or frog when there are NUMEROUS solutions to prevent the fish/frog/whatever from being harmed is awful to say!!

As I mentioned there are so so many ways that’s this can be done safely.... get a betta and a 5 gallon tank... build a shelf up higher for the stand so that he can’t just put stuff in but can still see the fish.... simple... and problem solved....
Most men who are “handy” would be able to rig up a lid that locks or that he can not open..or again even reach but still see.... there is absolutely NO reason in my professional opinion why this child can not have a fish....
Winter Soldier is giving a sound opinion. I am not offend. I personally know of of a couple of family's. A pet of any sort is not an option.

I am quite handy. Which allows me to handle this. If I was not handy. I would need to find some one who was or avoid the fish altogether.

I also understand where you are coming from Francine. That each and everyone of us deserve the right to have access to a pet.

You all have made awesome choices.

We just need to find a path that will help my son chose his tank over mine.

I have a 55 gallon with about 30 African Cichlids. But before you all jump the gun. Saying whoa, you are way over stocked.

It is. The number one reason is African Cichlids need to be over stocked to spread out the aggression. I have two 406 canister filters running. 3 heaters. Do two 50% water changes a week. Feed sparingly twice a day.

So if I went with a 9g with two Molly's. It would be taken care of. Molly's for me would be the last resort of type of fish I would get.

The Hexbugs though is making it's way to the top of my list.

My end goal is for me and my son to be able to do something together. Which in it self is a challenge. Due to always being with mom all the time.
 

Crazycoryfishlady

Member
bryangar said:
That’s a longggg reply
I'm known for my essays.
I had a tough life, when I wasn't taught to things right, I made mistakes that ended in deaths.
When I was finally given my own frog and told how to care for it, it lived a long happy life.
I agree, it is wrong to deprive anyone of socialization be it with animal or human.
If you can manage it, do it.
If you refuse to teach a child, they will grow up not understanding how to live, and they'll constantly make horrible mistakes.
If you sit down with them and walk them throigh things, if you really help them learn, they will, and who knows.
Maybe one day the son will be a world known fish keeper.
 

Luvlyrita

Member
Francine said:
I do think that is an AWFUL comment... I started out as a DSW for years and I now have my doctorate in psychology...

To deprive a mentally disabled child of having a fish or frog when there are NUMEROUS solutions to prevent the fish/frog/whatever from being harmed is awful to say!!

As I mentioned there are so so many ways that’s this can be done safely.... get a betta and a 5 gallon tank... build a shelf up higher for the stand so that he can’t just put stuff in but can still see the fish.... simple... and problem solved....
Most men who are “handy” would be able to rig up a lid that locks or that he can not open..or again even reach but still see.... there is absolutely NO reason in my professional opinion why this child can not have a fish....
I agree, it may take time and diligence but mentally disabled children, and all children will eventually understand basic care and compassion for another living thing. Children pick up on routines pretty quickly if they are consistent. I work with special needs children and they understand way more than people realize. You may hit a few bumps in the road. I would go with the bigger tank as it will be easier to maintain.
 

Francine

Member
I swear some people just come on here to talk....
Whoever it was that said a child under 5 shouldn’t have a frog is the most absurd thing I have EVER heard... these are not wild frog... they are aquatic pet frogs that yes are susceptible to disease just as fish are.... but I have never heard of an ACF or ACDF giving someone salmonella and they clearly did not even take the time to read what the post was about... seeing as (I’m assuming) they took us talking about a 5 gallon tank as the child is 5??? That’s the only correlation between the number 5 I can see.... and it provided absolutely no help to the OP....

To the OP... if you want to try the hexbug and then maybe you can work your way up to a tank... there are many ways you can secure a lid that people are not aware of or think of... such as super gluing the DIY mesh tops to the top of the tank... then you cut a hole big enough to feed, fit a small siphon and your hand to wipe the glass, attach a handle to the mesh top... attach a ring to the front of the tank... put some type of lock from the handle to the ring... there fish tank with locked lid.... this would work for any size tank but especially well for the smaller sizes you were looking into

But that can always be a down the road project once he learns more

And don’t go with mollies... in those small tanks even keeping 1 or 2 I find cruel... they like to swim.. they won’t have room at 2-1 1/2” s to do that in those small tanks....

Bottom line you know your son best and what will work and what won’t... I’m just glad that you are taking the time to find something to do together... it’s so important... a child’s same sex parent is their biggest role model so it’s great you will research and do what it takes to be able to have this activity with your son.... you sound like a great dad and like your doing a great job!
So no matter what you decide in the end... good for you...
 

KKM

Member
Francine said:
ACF’s minimum tank size if you look ANYWHERE is 10g’s for one frog....
That’s considered the bare minimum for one and they do better with company. It’s like one goldfish in a 20g: bare minimum but far from ideal, and most keepers advise against it.
 

wodesorel

Member
Francine said:
but I have never heard of an ACF or ACDF giving someone salmonella
The CDC has been putting out warnings for years warning about small aquarium frogs and salmonella in young children. Large outbreaks have been traced direcrtly back to captive African Dwarf Frogs, and the damage that salmonella can do to little kids is major. The problem is that they stick their hands in the water and then put them straight in their mouths without washing in between. They're kids! They just don't realize the risk. It's the same warnings that are given about tiny water turtles, and for the same reason.
 

Francine

Member
KKM said:
That’s considered the bare minimum for one and they do better with company. It’s like one goldfish in a 20g: bare minimum but far from ideal, and most keepers advise against it.
That’s odd... I’m a keeper and have been for years and mine have always lived comfortably in a 10g.... 15 years I would say is a good lifespan and he couldn’t have been that cramped or I’m sure he would have died long before and now my new one is in a 10 gallon and she is quite fine also.... no cramped at the least.... I have ready several articles (because there are ALOT on ACF’s because of all the scientific research the use them for) and I have never read that they need or even notice company.... it actually warns to make sure you never have a smaller frog in with a larger one as the larger one might eat it but nothing about company... and know many others and in the frog trade that all keep theirs in 10g’s.... I don’t like to argue but also I don’t like when people reading this stuff get false information...

If you are talking about African DWARF frogs... yes, they do prefer company but in all my research (and I spend at least 2-3 weeks or even a month before I purchase any fish or animal) I have never read they need to be kept in bigger tanks than 10g’s and that they shouldn’t be kept alone....- I’ve attached some pictures from some reputable sites for you they are about tank size as well as company....
wodesorel said:
The CDC has been putting out warnings for years warning about small aquarium frogs and salmonella in young children. Large outbreaks have been traced direcrtly back to captive African Dwarf Frogs, and the damage that salmonella can do to little kids is major. The problem is that they stick their hands in the water and then put them straight in their mouths without washing in between. They're kids! They just don't realize the risk. It's the same warnings that are given about tiny water turtles, and for the same reason.
Now as for the salmonella maybe it’s skmething else where you live but ACF’s and ACDF’s have no greater chance to give you salmonella because of the actual frog itself... if you read picture 4 attached you will see WHY they can cause salmonella and basically it’s if you don’t do your do diligence and keep their tank clean and free from old food and they have no greater chance of giving it to you then any other aquarium where live foods and water and kept in non suitable conditions..... again see picture 4... it’s an extremely reputable gentleman and his knowledge of fish and all aquatic life is vast....
 

goldface

Member
Salmonella, child-proofing, ACFs, Switzerland, etc., etc.,. In short, all I got from this is that goldfish can live alone, and wild discus are child-proof.
 

Bryangar

Member
Sometimes people on fishlore fight about everything even when its not important
 

Francine

Member
scarface said:
Salmonella, child-proofing, ACFs, Switzerland, etc., etc.,. In short, all I got from this is that goldfish can live alone, and wild discus are child-proof.
Where did you get that goldfish can live alone?? I would love to see scientific proof of this... not someone on a forum saying it’s ok... because my knowledge comes from science and also these pages are important... when people do research and type in thing they are trying to find answers to, these forums often pop up... so it’s important that the information is accurate IMO....
 

Rich johns

Member
3 female platies and some decor. You'll be good to go
 

BettaNovice101

Member
bryangar said:
That’s a longggg reply
Yeah, but it's a great one!
 

H2O Concierge

Member
fastraver said:
Okay guys. Need your help. My 55 gallon is under lock and key. But my kid found a way to feed two cookies to my pretties. How, have an idea. But not 100 percent.

My son is mentally disabled. So he does not understand the concept of look but do not touch.

I am thinking of getting a small tank for him and get a couple of fishes.

What fish out there would be able to handle a earthquake, ice storm blizzard, tornado, hurricane, atomic blast and any other child disaster?
One of my grandsons is severely autistic and I would have loved to set up a tank for them, but his dad & I were pretty sure it would end in disaster. I do not know of your son's range of ability, so none of these suggestions may apply. My plan was to go something like this... 1). Start with a plexiglass tank to minimize glass breakage. 2). Have him choose a special container just for "his special food". Perhaps a decorated daily/weekly pill container might do. I even thought about those programmable automated medication dispensers. 3). Setup a feeding schedule using an audible timer alert. He was only to feed when the alert sounded or like flashed. Maybe tie the feeding time to his own breakfast/dinner. 4). Determine what shape or color fish he is most interested in and purchase some "fake" fish and use them as a teaching tool. They have multiple options and sizes out there. I don't have any specific suggestions on securing the top, but it sounds like you have some experience with that. Good luck trying to keep boys out of anything. I hope that this helps in some small way. I applaud your efforts and wish for you the best of outcomes.
 

InsanityShard

Member
I'm Autistic too, and my first fish was a betta. I poured the entire tub of food into his tank and used to try to pet the goldfish... I also nearly drowned in a giant goldfish pond. Goldfish were the hardiest, I once poured a little bubble mix into their barrel. Mum and Ian did an immediate emergancy full water change. They lived. ._. I was very bad with fish until near my teens, but I was always good with the cats at least.
 

H2O Concierge

Member
InsanityShard said:
I'm Autistic too, and my first fish was a betta. I poured the entire tub of food into his tank and used to try to pet the goldfish... I also nearly drowned in a giant goldfish pond. Goldfish were the hardiest, I once poured a little bubble mix into their barrel. Mum and Ian did an immediate emergancy full water change. They lived. ._. I was very bad with fish until near my teens, but I was always good with the cats at least.
Water is so attractive to those with autism, my grandson was once rescued from a lake. I've been stumbling around for 40+ years finding out how little I knew the day before. Even the best of us make mistakes and have to learn by trial and error when we start. Enjoy your cats. I enjoy mine.
 

allllien

Member
Well, the hardiest fish I can think of is the pest fish 'Gambusia' aka mosquito fish. You'll find them in polluted creeks/streams/ponds/rivers etc. in most places around the world. Almost impossible to kill with bad water conditions, we used to catch them as kids and sometimes kept a few in a bucket or fish bowl etc. Not the prettiest fish, basically like a colorless, short finned guppy, but still interesting enough for kids who like little fish They would also work well in a small tank (need good filtration as they can be quite messy despite their size).
Then later on you could upgrade to something nicer when he gets older, like platys, swordtails, mollies etc. (2 -4 would work fine in a 6.5 -10G, as long as they're the types that don't grow bigger than 2.5", there's quite a bit of size variation with those species).
 

allllien

Member
Turtles, frogs and salmonella: Yes, it is true, they can give you salmonella, and here's why: people often feed them meat, meat goes bad, therefor water gets contaminated, it's a simple fact. However, if you feed them a pellet type food or insects etc, it's very unlikely.
It's the same if you go fishing/wash your hands in the water where someone has thrown their old (meat) bait in the water, if you don't thoroughly wash your hands you're at risk.
 

Aquaman9101

Member
I've always had luck with dwarf gourami. If that isn't what he likes, maybe try a dwarf puffer? They don't need friends, are small, and, in my experience, very social with its "master". One should be able to be kept in a 9g. You're child should be able to care for him with ease if guided, so, as a bonus, it can be a bonding thing.
 

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